Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Nucky Thompson]

30 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Construction? No. Trade yes. I'll go when it's safe. I'll just work as something else. You?

 

The SNP do plenty wrong, but compared to devastation of the Tories, don't make me laugh.

It was just you posted the other week about not being able to build houses in the fresh air while other people were working selling coffee.

 

 

I'm still working. I'm a landscape gardener. I've dropped the landscaping bit just now and kept doing the garden maintenance.

The majority of my customers are elderly and rely on me coming. Obviously all my work is outside and I don't need to have any close contact with them.

I've got my laddie helping me just now as the Uni is closed and he lives in the same household as me

[John Gentleman]

10 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Teachers have no more right to be protected from covid than any other profession.

They are key workers with a role in child protection.

The kids are at very low risk from the infection.

Refusal to open schools has nothing to do with the risks to children, and that is what this should be about- the children.

We don't know that yet. Just because they're asymptomatic doesn't mean they don't contract it (and therefore 'shed & spread' the virus) to older, more vulnerable people. Only mass antibody testing amongst kids would establish this one way or the other. If teachers have to front up to their classes, they should be provided with appropriate PPE as are health workers on the front line. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by John Gentleman

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

they may well be, but they are supreme champions at spreading everything from the cold to head lice to chicken pox etc. 

 

Good for them, not good if you're the 50 year old teacher in a room with 30 5 year old biological bombs. 

 

This.    Teachers at risk.    Teachers seeded with infection to in turn seed it back into the community.

 

Expect that R rate to disappear from the briefings.

[Victorian]

Present day.   "The R rate is below 1"

 

Coming soon.   "The R rate is difficult to estimate but it's well below the R3 it was before we took measures to protect people"

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Present day.   "The R rate is below 1"

 

Coming soon.   "The R rate is difficult to estimate but it's well below the R3 it was before we took measures to protect people"

Happened yesterday. New chief scientific shill Jenny Harries banging on about 3 different R rates, community, hospitals, care homes, it difficult to measure, we might not get the data, blah, blah.

The reality is they haven't got a fecking clue what the R rate is and now they are making the science fit the agenda. 

Why was Dom in the SAGE meetings again? 

[The Mighty Thor]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

This.    Teachers at risk.    Teachers seeded with infection to in turn seed it back into the community.

 

Expect that R rate to disappear from the briefings.

Easy way to solve it. Kit the teachers up in PPE like hospital nurses. Gowns, masks, gloves, visors. 

See how many parents want to send their kids then.

[doctor jambo]

13 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

We know how important schools are but there is not enough known re how children can spread the virus around.    The potential for supercharged infection transmission is there.    It should be done after the community infection levels have been driven down a bit more.    They need headroom to cope with a spike.    There is no headroom.

 

The other aspect is that the clamour to get schools back is a Trojan Horse.    It's all about paving the way for parents going back to work. 

Parents do need to go back to work.

Its true.

Vulnerable stay in lockdown, everyone else back to it.

 

[Nucky Thompson]

11 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Can you provide any links, no pun intended, showing people using golf course in this manner. Most are private and inaccessible to the general public. Political suicide you say?

https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/evening-tele-poll-indicates-96-of-scots-happy-with-coronavirus-lockdown-rules/

I walk my dog every day on Carrick Knowe golf course.

I'm not one for taking photos and sending them to the EEN though.

It's busy most days, but one evening last week it was like Piccadilly Circus.

To be fair, most people were social distancing. Like BoJo said the most of the British people use their common sense.

Not like Jason Leitch who said the Scottish people can't be trusted to meet a family member outside.

 

I don't take much notice of polls

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Happened yesterday. New chief scientific shill Jenny Harries banging on about 3 different R rates, community, hospitals, care homes, it difficult to measure, we might not get the data, blah, blah.

The reality is they haven't got a fecking clue what the R rate is and now they are making the science fit the agenda. 

Why was Dom in the SAGE meetings again? 

 

Indeedy.    The briefing is becoming increasingly discredited.    More and more people are starting to call it out as an a la carte selection from the scientific data set.     

 

 

[Taffin]

43 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

Disagree. Anti-vaxxers (and associated far-right libertarian nutters) are responsible for the exponential rate of infections in the US. Despite the absence of a vaccine/effective treament they've railed against any mitigation measures. Now we are seeing the results.

The textbook for Covid-19 hasn't been written yet, but it hasn't stopped that cohort, armed with guns, urging a return to business as usual, with devastating results. 

 

Nobody should be forcibly made to inject/ingest something into their body that they don't want to. Obviously they should want to but it should remain their choice imo. 

[ri Alban]

20 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It was just you posted the other week about not being able to build houses in the fresh air while other people were working selling coffee.

 

 

I'm still working. I'm a landscape gardener. I've dropped the landscaping bit just now and kept doing the garden maintenance.

The majority of my customers are elderly and rely on me coming. Obviously all my work is outside and I don't need to have any close contact with them.

I've got my laddie helping me just now as the Uni is closed and he lives in the same household as me

Yes, I like to question the government. 

Good on you, btw. Most folk seem to be Monty Don ATM. Hopefully they phone you en masse post lockdown. 👍 

I used to build small stone walls/pens/Kennels when I worked for a landscaper. Loved it.

Edited May 17, 2020 by ri Alban

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Indeedy.    The briefing is becoming increasingly discredited.    More and more people are starting to call it out as an a la carte selection from the scientific data set.     

 

 

you've not seen the chief medical officer or chief scientific advisor since last Sunday's announcement. 

Make of that what you will. 

[hughesie27]

29 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Teachers are paid a lot more than nurses and Care workers. If the health workers can just get on with it then I think the teachers should too. At the end of the day being "safe" is impossible and if people want to hide in a bunker forever it is their choice but they should not get paid to do it. The Govt made its mistakes, now we all just have to get on with it as best we can whilst protecting the vulnerable in society as best we can.

Fingers crossed those teachers who look after vulnerable people at home don't get it.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Easy way to solve it. Kit the teachers up in PPE like hospital nurses. Gowns, masks, gloves, visors. 

See how many parents want to send their kids then.

 

I would suggest they deserve to be protected to the hilt because it looks like they're being expected to face quite a risk.     

[manaliveits105]

24 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Teachers have no more right to be protected from covid than any other profession.

They are key workers with a role in child protection.

The kids are at very low risk from the infection.

Refusal to open schools has nothing to do with the risks to children, and that is what this should be about- the children.

Spot on 

 

No one recruited in Scotland yet out of the proposed extra 2000 people for test track trace according to Jackson Carlaw 

Gove just said 17200 trained up down south - whats going on ? 

[Montgomery Brewster]

47 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The snake Gove on the Marr show.    Hawking a load of utter shite about decisions that are indefensible.    Schools will be incredibly safe for teachers and if they catch covid,   they'll have caught it in the supermarket.    

An odious little turd

[ri Alban]

7 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Spot on 

 

No one recruited in Scotland yet out of the proposed extra 2000 people for test track trace according to Jackson Carlaw 

Gove just said 17200 trained up down south - whats going on ? 

Michael Gove talks shite. He said 100,000s of tests had been carried out daily, when in fact they'd never actually tested 100,000 in a day. 126,000 was Thursday's number, when actually it was 72,000(Good number) with 54000 posted out that day.

 

How do you know Michael Gove is lying. His lips are moving. As for two surnames 🤣 Who tf, other than sponsored walkers(cancelled this year, nae luck) would vote for that twat.

Edited May 17, 2020 by ri Alban

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

you've not seen the chief medical officer or chief scientific advisor since last Sunday's announcement. 

Make of that what you will. 

 

There's a bit of a myth that these men are independent in some way and provide fully independent advice.    They're not.    They are government appointed civil servants and,   in an employment context,   duty bound to serve the government.    

 

Those two tend to provide direct answers to questions.    Harries tries to answer everything with a wholistic,   all encompassing,   fully comprehensive,   research document sized,   Lawson-esque odyssey of words.    Handy to avoid people finding out stuff.

[Spellczech]

5 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Fingers crossed those teachers who look after vulnerable people at home don't get it.

I have no idea how many do that but the situation is no different from my sisters and me trying to protect our elderly parents. We don't live with them, haven't since we were 18 so perhaps people need to review their living situation if they are still living with parents...But I covered that when I said we all have to protect the vulnerable as best we can. That may include sending a child home if s/he has a cough or parents not sending a child to school in the first place if s/he has a cough...Perhaps parents will have to be more responsible for their children rather than shrugging them off to the state. Certainly the parents in the  East Craiglockhart park yesterday telling their toddlers to "get behind daddy" are doing it - whether that is a good thing or not is another matter...

[dav1e]

If the government were serious about protecting our children, they would open state schools at the same time as public schools like Eton, Harrow  etc.

Eton  has announced it will be opening in September as to do so beforehand would be unsafe.  

[hughesie27]

6 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I have no idea how many do that but the situation is no different from my sisters and me trying to protect our elderly parents. We don't live with them, haven't since we were 18 so perhaps people need to review their living situation if they are still living with parents...But I covered that when I said we all have to protect the vulnerable as best we can. That may include sending a child home if s/he has a cough or parents not sending a child to school in the first place if s/he has a cough...Perhaps parents will have to be more responsible for their children rather than shrugging them off to the state. Certainly the parents in the  East Craiglockhart park yesterday telling their toddlers to "get behind daddy" are doing it - whether that is a good thing or not is another matter...

The guidelines are already there saying if you have a cough then stay at home. The problem is the asymptomatic or the contagious before symptoms show period.

 

When I said vulnerable I wasn't talking about people still living with their parents. I was on about those with people with disabilities and weaker immune systems at home. Kids or partners. Should they teachers be made to get back to work?

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

The guidelines are already there saying if you have a cough then stay at home. The problem is the asymptomatic or the contagious before symptoms show period.

 

When I said vulnerable I wasn't talking about people still living with their parents. I was on about those with people with disabilities and weaker immune systems at home. Kids or partners. Should they teachers be made to get back to work?

Wasn't aware people with disabilities were any more affected by Covid than the rest of us TBH? The number of teachers who live with people with weak immune systems cannot be huge surely or any bugs they brought home previously would've been a problem? 

 

I get the impression a lot of whataboutery is either people seeking attention, politically-motivated or just simply wanting to be seen as a special case...(Last comment is not a criticism of you - I realise you are playing devil's advocate and that this is a discussion, but Boris was actually correct in saying that people have to apply common sense...)

Edited May 17, 2020 by Spellczech

[Weakened Offender]

1 hour ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

Folk buying into the media propaganda against teachers. 

 

 

It's scary. Particularly when a lot of teachers are working with the children of key workers, a lot of whom work in the hospitals. 

[dav1e]

If the government were serious about protecting our children, they would open state schools at the same time as public schools like Eton, Harrow  etc.

Eton  has announced it wont be opening before September as to do so beforehand would be unsafe. 

Edited May 17, 2020 by dav1e

[Taffin]

13 minutes ago, dav1e said:

If the government were serious about protecting our children, they would open state schools at the same time as public schools like Eton, Harrow  etc.

Eton  has announced it wont be opening before September as to do so beforehand would be unsafe. 

 

Do the public schools have access to better information about the virus?

[Shanks]

I take it the schools are going to be safe in the same way that carehomes would be safe? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

If you think that, you're thick. But I expect you don't, do you.

You could also bracket those GERS deniers in the same way rA. But, no, I did exaggerate and I don't believe that. I do think that our public services rely on the extra funding Barnett awards us.. I respect those who would prefer to make all the decisions here in Scotland but they have to be honest about the finances and not make up stories about nasty London squirrelling away all the hard earned Scottish tax payers money snd giving it to billionaires 

[Nucky Thompson]

10 minutes ago, Shanks said:

I take it the schools are going to be safe in the same way that carehomes would be safe? 

Pretty shite comparison considering the virus is killing mostly old people.

 

Also I wouldn't be sending my 13 year old to school in June.

Let the English be the guinea pigs for a change in this instance 

I'm willing to take risks in life, but I wouldn't gamble with my kids

[The Mighty Thor]

24 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

This thing isn’t going anywhere. So we need to learn to live with it. That means doing things to minimise risks. 
 

We need to develop new systems for schooling and all other manners of things

 

Lots of countries have got their school back open without too much hassle. It is, usually, one of the first things that happen for a multitude of very good reasons. I’m not sure it’s the impossible situation that some seem to be portraying . 

 

The schools should be going back soon and teachers, civil servants etc should be spending their time figuring out how we best make that happen. 

 

Like it or not we’re going to have to learn to live with this thing.

You're 100% correct. We do need to live with it. That means understanding it first and understanding the size and scale of the virus and where it is in our communities. That takes time, it takes a huge programme of testing and antibody testing. It doesn't take policy made up on the hoof because the optic in the Daily Mail is good.  

 

[Pasquale for King]

10 hours ago, graygo said:

 

It was good, I watched the Dortmund v Shalke game. Not the same to be fair, I know there was no crowd but give me a rocking Tynecastle any day of the week.

First accie and lost by one game as usual. ☹️

I had the sound off whilst listening to sport sound, players looked a bit rusty but good to have live football back.

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

They are also being challenged for data misrepresentation. 
The crisis is pretty much over.

My kids education has been grossly compromised.

Time to reclassify teachers as key workers and get them back to work.

Kids are more in danger from peanuts than covid, and certainly more vulnerable children will lose out , than if they returned.

Teachers have no right to stay off vs supermarket workers, bus drivers, posties.

 

A bit harsh on teachers, not a profession I’ve even been fond of, kids can catch it like anyone else and usually spread viruses quite easily. Would it be better to only send back the older ones for the last six weeks of term up here? It seems to be about getting kids to school so their parents can work. 
I take your word for the kids education being grossly compromised in a two month period where they would’ve been off for at least two weeks anyway? Home schooling can’t be easy.

I didn’t learn the metric table because of a poor teacher in primary 7 and have never done so, might do it now.

 

[jack D and coke]

18 hours ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

Topics gone all a bit skew-whiff.

 

 

It’s teetered on the edge of an indy debate just like almost everything else nowadays. 
Some people just can not turn it in. 
****ing tedious. 
Now is not the time for politics imo. 

[jack D and coke]

17 hours ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Facebook memes in this thread? Seriously?

 

The state of some of you lot.

 

 

17 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's like a cult. She can do no wrong. 

Fecking scary and weird 

The irony....

[jack D and coke]

14 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Uk debt includes Scottish debt. Scotland has been good over many years at spending money without the responsibility of having to raise it. 

****ing hell....

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

 

The irony....

I don't blindly follow any political party. In fact out of my 35 years of being able to vote, I've only voted Tory once and that was at the last GE.

I voted Lib dems at the Holyrood elections as I think Alex Cole Hamilton is doing a good job in Edinburgh West

[OBE]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It’s teetered on the edge of an indy debate just like almost everything else nowadays. 
Some people just can not turn it in. 
****ing tedious. 
Now is not the time for politics imo. 

 

The majority of debate is fascinating, but Nicola v Boris...pffffff.

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I don't blindly follow any political party. In fact out of my 35 years of being able to vote, I've only voted Tory once and that was at the last GE.

I voted Lib dems at the Holyrood elections as I think Alex Cole Hamilton is doing a good job in Edinburgh West

I’m not polarised in my views either. 
This thread has teetered on the edge of snp/tory bad though and it drives me ****ing insane. 
Now is not the time for this bullshit. 

[hughesie27]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Wasn't aware people with disabilities were any more affected by Covid than the rest of us TBH? The number of teachers who live with people with weak immune systems cannot be huge surely or any bugs they brought home previously would've been a problem? 

 

I get the impression a lot of whataboutery is either people seeking attention, politically-motivated or just simply wanting to be seen as a special case...(Last comment is not a criticism of you - I realise you are playing devil's advocate and that this is a discussion, but Boris was actually correct in saying that people have to apply common sense...)

Those with disabilities are more liable to get ill because they (some) aren't able to take the right steps to keep themselves safe like washing hands regularly etc.

Of course they would have been risking bringing back viruses before Covid but pretty much everything that we know currently exists and are likely to be spread are treatable or even preventable with regards to the Flu jab. This isn't.

And the number of people in that position doesn't really matter. Are we forcing those that are in that position back or are we not?

 

We are still in the position where we hope to fully eradicate this virus but we may well fail and ultimately have to.live with it forever. Then of course we will all just have to get on with it but its won't be spreading at epidemic proportions forever so the risk will be significantly reduced.

 

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

 

The majority of debate is fascinating, but Nicola v Boris...pffffff.

People really need a burst mooth for trying to take the conversation down political roads imo. 
SNP this or tory that. ****ing hell....
Not you personally bud 😉

[Spellczech]

6 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Those with disabilities are more liable to get ill because they (some) aren't able to take the right steps to keep themselves safe like washing hands regularly etc.

Of course they would have been risking bringing back viruses before Covid but pretty much everything that we know currently exists and are likely to be spread are treatable or even preventable with regards to the Flu jab. This isn't.

And the number of people in that position doesn't really matter. Are we forcing those that are in that position back or are we not?

 

We are still in the position where we hope to fully eradicate this virus but we may well fail and ultimately have to.live with it forever. Then of course we will all just have to get on with it but its won't be spreading at epidemic proportions forever so the risk will be significantly reduced.

 

Unless it is a significant number of people then it really doesn't matter though. People have to decide for themselves or for those they care for how best to deal with it. We cannot just continue to hide inside forever based purely on "what ifs"...It is not going to be possible to wait for R0.0 before we go back to work and school...

Edited May 17, 2020 by Spellczech

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You can argue legitimately about being able to make different decisions under independence but the facts are out there : Scotland raises less per capita in tax than and benefits per capita in public spending.  The difference is £2k per head. Those are factual figures contained in the latest GERS report, produced by the Scottish Government themselves.  You can argue that back in the 70s , we raised more per capita with oil revenues included, fair enough but the figures I quoted you are the most up to date, factual indication of the position we would be in on Day 1 of independence.  Attaching numerous articles espousing conspiracy theories from a selection  of flat earthers does not change that. 

What a closed minded indoctrinated yoon, the Gers figures are an estimate that doesn’t have all the data because it’s not recorded. Who in the world would even attempt to work out a country’s finances in this way if it wasn’t in their favour. You're a lost cause and have been on ignore for weeks due to the absolute nonsense you talk.

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You can argue legitimately about being able to make different decisions under independence but the facts are out there : Scotland raises less per capita in tax than and benefits per capita in public spending.  The difference is £2k per head. Those are factual figures contained in the latest GERS report, produced by the Scottish Government themselves.  You can argue that back in the 70s , we raised more per capita with oil revenues included, fair enough but the figures I quoted you are the most up to date, factual indication of the position we would be in on Day 1 of independence.  Attaching numerous articles espousing conspiracy theories from a selection  of flat earthers does not change that. 

What a closed minded indoctrinated yoon, the Gers figures are an estimate that doesn’t have all the data because it’s not recorded. Who in the world would even attempt to work out a country’s finances in this way if it wasn’t in their favour. You're a lost cause and have been on ignore for weeks due to the absolute nonsense you talk.

[Nucky Thompson]

Do people actually put others on ignore because they don't agree with what they post 

I can honestly say I've never used that function and there are loads on here I don't agree with along with the trolls and interlopers on the Terrace.

 

[ri Alban]

Somedae say somit?

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It was just you posted the other week about not being able to build houses in the fresh air while other people were working selling coffee.

 

 

I'm still working. I'm a landscape gardener. I've dropped the landscaping bit just now and kept doing the garden maintenance.

The majority of my customers are elderly and rely on me coming. Obviously all my work is outside and I don't need to have any close contact with them.

I've got my laddie helping me just now as the Uni is closed and he lives in the same household as me

On a lighter but positive note.
Working outside has been a bonus for you as the weather has been pretty good.

We’ve all benefited.

😃

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

They are also being challenged for data misrepresentation. 
The crisis is pretty much over.

My kids education has been grossly compromised.

Time to reclassify teachers as key workers and get them back to work.

Kids are more in danger from peanuts than covid, and certainly more vulnerable children will lose out , than if they returned.

Teachers have no right to stay off vs supermarket workers, bus drivers, posties.

 

The comparison with private schools is also I think wide of the mark. Private schools and their parents can afford to play ultra safe. Their pupils can get private tuition. Their parents can get or already have nannies. And if in a worst case they despite their advantages their pupils  lose out on education and emerge slightly less bright and developed than they would otherwise have been they will still walk into a good job in the City or elsewhere. They will still have a much better than average chance of becoming a Tory (or indeed Labour) MP, Cabinet Minister or even PM. In some cases  not being too bright seems almost a qualification.

 

It seems to me that problems of isolation and distancing and shortage of teachers who for good reason can't work might be alleviated to some admittedly limited  extent if closed private schools and their teachers volunteered or if necessary were requisitioned to help out in this time of crisis by taking in pupils from the state schools. Private doctors and hospitals if I recall did something like that earlier in the crisis.

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

On a lighter but positive note.
Working outside has been a bonus for you as the weather has been pretty good.

We’ve all benefited.

😃

Aye the weather has been brilliant 

[ri Alban]

52 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I don't blindly follow any political party. In fact out of my 35 years of being able to vote, I've only voted Tory once and that was at the last GE.

I voted Lib dems at the Holyrood elections as I think Alex Cole Hamilton is doing a good job in Edinburgh West

Hamilton is the biggest crook in Scotland.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

A bit harsh on teachers, not a profession I’ve even been fond of, kids can catch it like anyone else and usually spread viruses quite easily. Would it be better to only send back the older ones for the last six weeks of term up here? It seems to be about getting kids to school so their parents can work. 
I take your word for the kids education being grossly compromised in a two month period where they would’ve been off for at least two weeks anyway? Home schooling can’t be easy.

I didn’t learn the metric table because of a poor teacher in primary 7 and have never done so, might do it now.

 

This fake doctor shouldn't be allowed near anyone. Thank feck he doesn't advise the government. And I worry for his kids and patients.

Edited May 17, 2020 by ri Alban

[jambogaza]

Contact tracing technology to be piloted in Fife, Highlands and Lanarkshire from tomorrow.