Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[dobmisterdobster]

7 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

We have a similar population to Italy. We have learned zip all from them.

We will have the highest death rate in Europe. Shameful.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/covid-19-hundreds-of-uk-care-home-deaths-not-added-to-official-toll

Add another 1000 for these being hidden away.

That doesn't mean any the without context.

Our lockdown was timed to reduce strain on the NHS.

A lot of countries don't include care home deaths including Germany.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

20 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

That doesn't mean any the without context.

Our lockdown was timed to reduce strain on the NHS.

A lot of countries don't include care home deaths including Germany.

 

Neither does Italy, nor do Italy include deaths in the home, so their 'real' death toll is a lot more than the 'official' death toll.

How much more, it's difficult to say and will probably never be known, for sure.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Do we just leave people stuck in New Zealand or India or Peru or wherever.

There was a poster on here whose daughter I think it was was also stuck in New Zealand and he was frantic in getting her back, do you just tell him, ah feck her she's not getting back in.

 

You have to either bring your people back and/or allow them to come back home, can you just imagine the shit storm if the government a tory brexit government said that's it the border is closed nobody British national or otherwise is allowed back in from X date, absolute shit storm mate.

 

I will agree with you that there should be more advice handed out, however with everything shut and social distancing etc etc where are the family in question going to go to spread the virus (if they had it), that is why we are locked down and pretty much everything is shut down to try and stop people from spreading it around.

 

If they follow the rules the only people whom they are going to spread it to, are themselves.

 

 

 

I'm not saying feck them at all. The hard facts are that we should have shut down the UK. UK citizens can repatriate. Otherwise its no entry. No exceptions.

There should be, at the minimum, advice given to isolate for 14 days to any UK citizen returning home, regardless of point of origin. 

We lost a 14 day head start on this pandemic by fannying about with wishy washy advice and now our government is fudging the death toll to keep it circa 1000 a day. 

Oh and by the way there's still scheduled flights coming in. Every. Single. Day. 

[redjambo]

I know, stats and all that, but the daily increase in the number of total deaths worldwide is still on a downwards trend:

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/worldwide-graph

 

[scottishguy]

Text from my partner who is a care worker.

 

"Just sat with ****** till he took his last breath,, really sad,, trying not to cry ,, poor soul,, at least now he's not in pain,, just feel bad that his family couldn't have been with him,, but just another day need to keep going,,

 ♥️♥️♥️"

 

I have absolutely no idea how she can do her job.

She has a heart of gold and so proud of her.

[The Mighty Thor]

On the changing government narrative, I see the new tack being provided by Dom, from his isolation man cave, is the line spouted by the vile Priti Patel yesterday and followed up by Robert '**** the lockdown I'm going for 150 mile jaunt' Jenrick on today's talking head slots

 

"I'm sorry you feel that way" or "we're sorry you feel that way"

 

Not enough PPE? oh I'm sorry you feel that way. 

 

1000 deaths a day? Oh we're sorry you feel that way.

 

Like the physical lack of protective equipment is a feeling or emotion. Its a necessity you cretins. 

 

The government are losing the thread now. The early show of fiscal action and relative proactivity is coming rapidly undone against the harsh realities of a climbing (under reported) death toll, no meaningful testing and no exit plan.

[whodanny]

4 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Do we just leave people stuck in New Zealand or India or Peru or wherever.

There was a poster on here whose daughter I think it was was also stuck in New Zealand and he was frantic in getting her back, do you just tell him, ah feck her she's not getting back in.

 

You have to either bring your people back and/or allow them to come back home, can you just imagine the shit storm if the government a tory brexit government said that's it the border is closed nobody British national or otherwise is allowed back in from X date, absolute shit storm mate.

 

I will agree with you that there should be more advice handed out, however with everything shut and social distancing etc etc where are the family in question going to go to spread the virus (if they had it), that is why we are locked down and pretty much everything is shut down to try and stop people from spreading it around.

 

If they follow the rules the only people whom they are going to spread it to, are themselves.

 

 

 

Hi JJ, it was my daughter who was stuck in NZ. We got her home 2 weeks ago, but got no help from the government whatsoever. My daughter was one of several UK citizens who were turned away from the British consulate in Auckland. It was the persistemce of my Wife, myself and family members and friends that finally paid off to get her the flights home. Thanks.

Edited April 12, 2020 by whodanny

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I'm not saying feck them at all. The hard facts are that we should have shut down the UK. UK citizens can repatriate. Otherwise its no entry. No exceptions.

There should be, at the minimum, advice given to isolate for 14 days to any UK citizen returning home, regardless of point of origin. 

We lost a 14 day head start on this pandemic by fannying about with wishy washy advice and now our government is fudging the death toll to keep it circa 1000 a day. 

Oh and by the way there's still scheduled flights coming in. Every. Single. Day. 

 

We lost more than that, the World lost at least 4, 5 maybe 6 weeks whilst the Chinese tried to bury this and silence anybody who spoke out, and even then when they admitted they had a problem, hide from the WHO and the World just how infectious this thing was.

 

Government fudging the figures, does that include the Scottish, Welsh & N. Irish governments, or is it just the English that are fudging the figures.

 

Scheduled flights, of course there are, how else are Brits supposed to be able to get back home.

 

What I think we disagree with is whether people returning back to the UK are adding to the overall rate or risk of spreading the virus.

So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

 

 

[Victorian]

The only quick fix hope is a successful repurposed drug.    There have been trials but there's also a big reluctance to scale up to something akin to an othodox double blind trial because it is seen as wholly unethical to include gravely ill people in a control / placebo group.    

 

It should be unorthodox imo.    I think they should be thinking along the lines of every gravely ill person being given whatever drugs are being explored and try to glean as much information from that.    It's not perfect and a bit of a minefield but what else is there?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, whodanny said:

Hi JJ, it was my daughter who was stuck in NZ. We got her home 2 weeks ago, but got no help from the government whatsoever. My daughter was one of several UK citizens who were turned away from the British consulate in Auckland. It was the persistemce of my Wife, myself and family members and friends that finally paid off to get her the flights home. Thanks.

 

Knew there was someone on here whose daughter was stuck in NZ.

 

As for getting no help from the British Government, hasn't that always the case, certainly seems so to me, whenever there's a natural disaster or a conflict breaks out, it always seems that the Brits are the last to get repatriated, it's the British way, constantly penny pinching I think.

[Cade]

Victoria Park, London, yesterday

 

[whodanny]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Knew there was someone on here whose daughter was stuck in NZ.

 

As for getting no help from the British Government, hasn't that always the case, certainly seems so to me, whenever there's a natural disaster or a conflict breaks out, it always seems that the Brits are the last to get repatriated, it's the British way, constantly penny pinching I think.

👍

[dobmisterdobster]

15 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

On the changing government narrative, I see the new tack being provided by Dom, from his isolation man cave, is the line spouted by the vile Priti Patel yesterday and followed up by Robert '**** the lockdown I'm going for 150 mile jaunt' Jenrick on today's talking head slots

 

"I'm sorry you feel that way" or "we're sorry you feel that way"

 

Not enough PPE? oh I'm sorry you feel that way. 

 

1000 deaths a day? Oh we're sorry you feel that way.

 

Like the physical lack of protective equipment is a feeling or emotion. Its a necessity you cretins. 

 

The government are losing the thread now. The early show of fiscal action and relative proactivity is coming rapidly undone against the harsh realities of a climbing (under reported) death toll, no meaningful testing and no exit plan.

 

Priti Patel has nothing to do with the NHS. She is in charge of policing and lockdown enforcement.

 

If the LadBible can ask her an relevant question, why can't other "news" organisations. Embarrassing stuff.

[neilnunb]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52262490

 

Tim Brooke-Taylor dies from it

[Toxteth O'Grady]

25 minutes ago, scottishguy said:

Text from my partner who is a care worker.

 

"Just sat with ****** till he took his last breath,, really sad,, trying not to cry ,, poor soul,, at least now he's not in pain,, just feel bad that his family couldn't have been with him,, but just another day need to keep going,,

 ♥️♥️♥️"

 

I have absolutely no idea how she can do her job.

She has a heart of gold and so proud of her.

That must be really tough.

 

When it is all over I hope we will all get a proper chance to show our appreciation to those that have had to deal with these terrible situations.

[scottishguy]

Just now, Toxteth O'Grady said:

That must be really tough.

 

When it is all over I hope we will all get a proper chance to show our appreciation to those that have had to deal with these terrible situations.

I really hope so too mate.

[Irufushi]

17 minutes ago, Cade said:

Victoria Park, London, yesterday

 

What’s wrong here? Plenty distance between people. 

[FWJ]

6 minutes ago, neilnunb said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52262490

 

Tim Brooke-Taylor dies from it

Was just going to post this.  Very sad.

A very funny man - on the TV and radio.  ISIHAC won’t be the same without him.

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

I have a slight feeling I won't be caring how sore it is.

 

By the pneumonia jag, do you mean the pneumococcal one? I had that one a couple of months ago and was fine with it. I guess different bodies and immune systems work in different ways.

I get the  flu jag every year and always fine with it too apart from one time when i was just shivery for a few days but it certainly seems to work .

[Jambo-Jimbo]

He has arisen.

 

BJ has been discharged from hospital.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

He has arisen.

 

BJ has been discharged from hospital.

what a surprise....! not...expect a media sensation tomorrow on Easter Monday when he is all over the media...not that i am cynical or anything 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

what a surprise....! not...expect a media sensation tomorrow on Easter Monday when he is all over the media...not that i am cynical or anything 

 

Have to say, the optics don't look great, however they won't keep you in hospital any longer than need be, especially just now.

[Ehllhayapeh]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211291/U-S-government-gave-3-7million-grant-Wuhan-lab-experimented-coronavirus-source-bats.html

 

So a bio lab in Wuhan WAS experimenting with coronaviruses according to the Daily Heil.

 

The main biotech lab in wuhan also isnt far from the wet market at the centre of this either.

 

Tin foil hats on everyone...let the conspiracies begin. Does explain the censoring of medics in China.

 

But its the Heil...so who knows

[Victorian]

There's nothing wrong in leaving hospital but there is a lot of thinking to suggest he should have complete rest for a few weeks.    

[The Mighty Thor]

40 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

 

Priti Patel has nothing to do with the NHS. She is in charge of policing and lockdown enforcement.

 

If the LadBible can ask her an relevant question, why can't other "news" organisations. Embarrassing stuff.

Agreed. 

The daily media conference is more like a sermon from one of these American TV evangelists with the thank you Jesus and amens being provided by Kuenssberg and Peston and the other sycophants. 

[Cade]

Trump on being asked about lifting Lockdowns:
“A lot of very smart people, a lot of professionals, doctors and business leaders are a lot of things that go into a decision like that and it’s going to be based on a lot of facts and a lot of instinct also.

Whether we like it or not, there is a certain instinct to it."

 

The USA is fecked.

They'll be well into a 6-figure death toll before this ends.

If it ever does(!)

 

[redjambo]

The number of patients in Scottish hospitals with coronavirus has dipped today and the direction of the graph looks promising.

 

From https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/:  

 

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

Trump on being asked about lifting Lockdowns:
“A lot of very smart people, a lot of professionals, doctors and business leaders are a lot of things that go into a decision like that and it’s going to be based on a lot of facts and a lot of instinct also.

Whether we like it or not, there is a certain instinct to it."

 

The USA is fecked.

They'll be well into a 6-figure death toll before this ends.

If it ever does(!)

 

 

The guy in charge of their response, Fauci, reckons on a total of 60,000.

[manaliveits105]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

The number of patients in Scottish hospitals with coronavirus has dipped today and the direction of the graph looks promising.

 

From https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/:  

 

Hopefully 

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

He has arisen.

 

BJ has been discharged from hospital.

Good news

[Tommy Brown]

9 minutes ago, redjambo said:

The number of patients in Scottish hospitals with coronavirus has dipped today and the direction of the graph looks promising.

 

From https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/:  

 

Not knocking your figures, Red.

It will take a lot more than than that dip for me to see any resemblance on good news.

Italy's figures give me hope, buy we are so far behind in time and implementation, sadly.

 

Signed

IM Jolly

[Seymour M Hersh]

Any information on those infected who have recovered or will it just be death notices the media are giving us?

[Thunderstruck]

14 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The guy in charge of their response, Fauci, reckons on a total of 60,000.

 

H1N1 Swine Flu Coronavirus, which first arrived in 2009, is still in circulation and was the major contributor to the estimated 50,000* Flu-related deaths recorded in the US between Oct 2019 and Jan 2020. 50 kilodeaths that seemed entirely unremarkable at the time given the lack of media attention. 

 

*CDC data.

[AlphonseCapone]

8 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-national-scandal-a-timeline-of-the-uk-governments-woeful-response-to-the-coronavirus-crisis/

 

I just came on to post that link. I see it hasn't really been commented on but, although it's a long read, it's a fantastic read to follow the time line of how this evolved, the decisions and statements the Government has made and when, and ultimately where mistakes have been made. 

 

I can't emphasise enough how much people should read this;

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-national-scandal-a-timeline-of-the-uk-governments-woeful-response-to-the-coronavirus-crisis/

[Cade]

30 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The guy in charge of their response, Fauci, reckons on a total of 60,000.

They're already past 20,000.

 

[Jeff]

 

Decent Listen

[Thunderstruck]

11 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Not knocking your figures, Red.

It will take a lot more than than that dip for me to see any resemblance on good news.

Italy's figures give me hope, buy we are so far behind in time and implementation, sadly.

 

Signed

IM Jolly

 

Compare the trajectory of infections with 2009 and we see an interesting similarity in the shape. The lag between infection an onset of symptoms may be several weeks. The 2009 virus did return later in the year to almost the same peak so any chink of light may be a false dawn and, I hope I am wrong, it may be some time until we get back to football. 

 

This gives some support to the notion that the virus first arrived on these shores in late December or early January and has been quietly spreading since. Earlier imposition of restrictions might only have shut the stable door a little sooner after the horse had bolted.

[The Internet]

Our ****ing media  

 

[Thunderstruck]

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

They're already past 20,000.

 

 

They may be but many of those would have died in any case and would have featured in the deaths due to, as one example, pneumonia in other years. It will be interesting to see if there is any concurrent downturn in deaths due to pneumonia, TB or other similar diseases.

 

We will not know until a cool analysis of causes of death is undertaken. There is far to much hype and hysteria circulating at present.

 

You will note that dying ‘with’ coronavirus is subtly different to dying ‘from’. 

[jumpship]

Maybe someone has already posted this but what horrendous reading for those who continue to support BoJo and his Westminster government.  

And - https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/uk-could-have-europes-worst-coronavirus-death-rate-says-pandemic-expert

Edited April 12, 2020 by jumpship

[redjambo]

51 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Not knocking your figures, Red.

It will take a lot more than than that dip for me to see any resemblance on good news.

Italy's figures give me hope, buy we are so far behind in time and implementation, sadly.

 

Signed

IM Jolly

 

Sorry, didn't see this before. Hope you're enjoying the "watter".

 

The curve certainly gives me hope. The "lead-in" curve of infections seems to have plateaued too.

 

 

 Let's see what both look like in a few days' time.

[The Mighty Thor]

31 minutes ago, jumpship said:

Maybe someone has already posted this but what horrendous reading for those who continue to support BoJo and his Westminster government.  

And - https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/uk-could-have-europes-worst-coronavirus-death-rate-says-pandemic-expert

Thats a great read.

 

Everyone should read it and think about the questions that it poses. 

[Cade]

How do we measure "new infections" when we're barely testing anybody?

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

35 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I just came on to post that link. I see it hasn't really been commented on but, although it's a long read, it's a fantastic read to follow the time line of how this evolved, the decisions and statements the Government has made and when, and ultimately where mistakes have been made. 

 

I can't emphasise enough how much people should read this;

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-national-scandal-a-timeline-of-the-uk-governments-woeful-response-to-the-coronavirus-crisis/

 

When you see it laid out in chronological order like that it's pretty damning.

 

The level of arrogance, incompetence, dithering, delay and inaction is staggering, at a time when you'd think that all expert voices would at least be listened to, it seems that only a few were listened to at the exclusion of all others.

 

To me a case of the blind leading the blind.

 

A full public inquiry has to be held, once this is over, lessons have to be learnt, and they have to be acted upon, if not, then we'll go through this and worse again, because this will happen again, another virus will strike, the next time we have to be ready.

[The Mighty Thor]

16 minutes ago, Cade said:

How do we measure "new infections" when we're barely testing anybody?

 

I think todays numbers will be like every weekend do far 20-30% lower and the huge upswing Tuesday/Wednesday, particularly with the Bank holiday

[DETTY29]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

There's nothing wrong in leaving hospital but there is a lot of thinking to suggest he should have complete rest for a few weeks.    

If he ends up back in hospital after ignoring medical advice, potentially denying someone else a bed, he should be resigning.

 

 

[Cade]

Hancock asked to apologise for blaming medical staff for using too much PPE.

"We're working night and day to get this right"

 

 

[Cade]

"Lessons will be learned"

 

That old chestnut every time you get caught making a complete tit of things.

[AlphonseCapone]

41 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

When you see it laid out in chronological order like that it's pretty damning.

 

The level of arrogance, incompetence, dithering, delay and inaction is staggering, at a time when you'd think that all expert voices would at least be listened to, it seems that only a few were listened to at the exclusion of all others.

 

To me a case of the blind leading the blind.

 

A full public inquiry has to be held, once this is over, lessons have to be learnt, and they have to be acted upon, if not, then we'll go through this and worse again, because this will happen again, another virus will strike, the next time we have to be ready.

 

Agree completely with every word. We need to see the biggest public inquiry that this country has ever held. 

[RobboM]

3 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

He has arisen.

 

BJ has been discharged from hospital.

Is it government advice now that recuperation can be done at your second home? or is Chequers his third home?

[Thunderstruck]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I just came on to post that link. I see it hasn't really been commented on but, although it's a long read, it's a fantastic read to follow the time line of how this evolved, the decisions and statements the Government has made and when, and ultimately where mistakes have been made. 

 

I can't emphasise enough how much people should read this;

 

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/04/11/a-national-scandal-a-timeline-of-the-uk-governments-woeful-response-to-the-coronavirus-crisis/

Isn’t hindsight a wonderful tool for predicting history.
 

The 2016 exercise was a Worst Case Exercise designed to inform decisions. I have been involved in more than a few of these and never was a plan or concept of operations put together that catered for such a worst case. Ultimately, all governments will take a balanced “Risk Management” position on probabilities together with opportunity cost of provision, be these military, natural disaster or health contingencies. 

 

The existing contingencies were carefully formed by analysis of previous pandemics (see the Hine Report on Swine Fever as an example) and were formed and adopted by all of the UK administrations, each responsible for their own health and care services.
 

It seems that very few countries have been able to cope with this pandemic. Why might that be?
 

Who knows if the existing plans might have proved effective if expected early-warning protocols had been followed and we had been given enough time to gear up for the onslaught and restrict travel from infected areas. Unfortunately, “Face” governs Chinese responses and the WHO was far too slow to act meaning that many weeks were lost before the true scale became apparent. By the time we knew of the scale of the problem, long before Italy hit the headlines, it was here and spreading. 
 

The time for analysis will come when all data are available and when cool, independent heads can consider causes and responses well away from the hype,  hysteria and party political axe-grinding.