Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Taffin]

Recommend one of these for winter. Would also solve the issues those with no ears face as @been here before correctly flagged up.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Taffin

[Pasquale for King]

54 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yip. Only 24% vaccinated and with lower life expectancy there, it makes the claims of galloping viruses, tsunamis and tidal waves here in the UK,  quite frankly, utterly ludicrous,  scaremongering nonsense. 

Just to deflect from partygate and the changes in Humans Rights going through Parliament just now. 

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Recommend one of these for winter. Would also solve the issues those with no ears face as @been here before correctly flagged up.

Is there a mod style looks a bit punk for me.

I like your posts on the covid stuff they are not wacko but raise good points.

Do you wear masks at Tynecastle?

Or shops etc?

[Francis Albert]

21 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

No. The number of hospital admissions is or should be ascertainable. The number of infections Is a function of the number of tests. So with few tests 38 in 1000 likely to be (in fact pretty sure to be) an overestimation.

 

 

Oops Underestimation of course!

[Cade]

Astounding that the Health Secretary stood up in Parliament today and said that as the UK has totally failed to monitor, enforce or police the travel red list in any proper way, Omicron is now rampant in the nation, and his plan is to just scrap the entire travel red list as it wasn't doing any good anyways.

 

Open the floodgates! We cannae be arsed!

 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

Astounding that the Health Secretary stood up in Parliament today and said that as the UK has totally failed to monitor, enforce or police the travel red list in any proper way, Omicron is now rampant in the nation, and his plan is to just scrap the entire travel red list as it wasn't doing any good anyways.

 

Open the floodgates! We cannae be arsed!

 

It’s not even shocking anymore how incompetent they are, time to leave this toxic Union. 

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yip. Only 24% vaccinated and with lower life expectancy there, it makes the claims of galloping viruses, tsunamis and tidal waves here in the UK,  quite frankly, utterly ludicrous,  scaremongering nonsense. 

It might be.... but we won't really know that for several weeks.   

 

After the way Covid  caused huge numbers of deaths in every country in Europe - largely due to governments not reacting fast enough or strongly enough -  all governments are now playing ultra-cautious by assuming that Omicron (which is too new to have produced enough real evidence of disease severity) might well be a humdinger, and acting accordingly.     

 

The alternative is to wait and possibly replicate the errors of 2020.   Which would you prefer ?

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Lone Striker

[Taffin]

Just now, Ked said:

Is there a mod style looks a bit punk for me.

I like your posts on the covid stuff they are not wacko but raise good points.

Do you wear masks at Tynecastle?

Or shops etc?

 

I think it's mean to be a Knight's helmet 😂 but I'm sure you could get one where the helmet is instead in the style of Paul Weller's hair.

 

Thanks, I try to play the number 10 role in the space between moon howler and sceptical cynic.

 

I've unfortunately not been to Tynecastle since the pandemic began (based in England) due to initially no fans and then work commitments. I would wear one in the same places as you mention above, and I'd moan about it. I don't agree with a lot of the measures but I'm largely compliant. 

 

I also wear one at the supermarket when it's been mandatory, but I didn't when it wasn't (Jul-this week). 

 

Whenever I've felt I may have been exposed to the virus, or I've been feeling unwell I've taken LFTs before spending time around people. That hasn't been regularly, but I did in fact do it today after someone I spent time with over the weekend tested positive. Fortunately, all clear on mine.

 

For me the kid gloves management approach doesn't work. I believe the government should be leaders, not managers. I'd like to see them lead by example and sell us why we should do things rather than mandate them. Your post above is 100x more likely to get my buy in than the approaches taken by our governments.

[NANOJAMBO]

22 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Just to deflect from partygate and the changes in Humans Rights going through Parliament just now. 

It's amazing how much brexiters know about foreign countries - when it suits them. What a shame they didn't spend so much time getting to know the truths & lies behind brexit. But here we are - being told about life in S Africa. Unreal. 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

It might be.... but we won't really know that for several weeks.   

 

After the way Covid  caused huge numbers of deaths in every country in Europe - largely due to governments not reacting fast enough or strongly enough -  all governments are now playing ultra-cautious by assuming that Omicron (which is too new to have produced enough real evidence of disease severity) might well be a humdinger, and acting accordingly.     

 

The alternative is to wait and possibly replicate the errors of 2020.   Which would you prefer ?

 

What you don't realise is that this poster has analysed 'the data' from the UK and South Africa and has seen something that the virologist, public health experts and modellers have not. 

He could have saved 170,000 lives, instead he shares his wisdom on a football forum. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

11 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

He was crucified by certain factions within his party. Bunch of Blairite snakes in the grass lead by the Jimmy Saville enabler Starmer. 

Read something the other week about this claim, it is false. He led the CPS but wasn't the lead on the Saville case.

[Dazo]

7 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

It might be.... but we won't really know that for several weeks.   

 

After the way Covid  caused huge numbers of deaths in every country in Europe - largely due to governments not reacting fast enough or strongly enough -  all governments are now playing ultra-cautious by assuming that Omicron (which is too new to have produced enough real evidence of disease severity) might well be a humdinger, and acting accordingly.     

 

The alternative is to wait and possibly replicate the errors of 2020.   Which would you prefer ?

 

Let’s be crystal clear here we would be locked down given the supposed transmission rate if there wasn’t a confidence on the mildness of this variant. Hospitalisations isn’t the concern imo it’s the effect on the uk workforce. On the supposed transmission rate I’m not sure how it’s possible for there to be so few recorded cases at this stage. Unless of course it is so mild hundreds of thousands are walking about carrying omicron without a care in the world. 
 

* No studies have been carried out to form this opinion. 

[Alex Kintner]

Covid: Omicron spreading at unprecedented rate, WHO says
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59656385
 

“Dr Tedros said he was concerned that not enough was being done to tackle the variant.

“Surely, we have learned by now that we underestimate this virus at our peril. Even if Omicron does cause less severe disease, the sheer number of cases could once again overwhelm unprepared health systems," he said.”

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Let’s be crystal clear here we would be locked down given the supposed transmission rate if there wasn’t a confidence on the mildness of this variant. Hospitalisations isn’t the concern imo it’s the effect on the uk workforce. On the supposed transmission rate I’m not sure how it’s possible for there to be so few recorded cases at this stage. Unless of course it is so mild hundreds of thousands are walking about carrying omicron without a care in the world. 
 

* No studies have been carried out to form this opinion. 

Yeah definitely seems to be the main concern is impact upon work and supply networks rather than serious illness. NHS at risk of being overwhelmed due to lack of available staff. Unfortunately it looks like the variant still has enough about it illness wise to rule out just letting it rip. That being said, I know in schools that teachers can voluntarily skip self-isolation where staffing levels critical.

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Yeah definitely seems to be the main concern is impact upon work and supply networks rather than serious illness. NHS at risk of being overwhelmed due to lack of available staff. Unfortunately it looks like the variant still has enough about it illness wise to rule out just letting it rip. That being said, I know in schools that teachers can voluntarily skip self-isolation where staffing levels critical.

England have rightly changed the rules on isolation where a negative test allows you to return to work. A negative pcr test should always supersede isolation rules. This would help. 
 

Before this variant people were catching covid and people were dying yet we were merrily skipping into Christmas. Nothing has changed in that respect, I don’t know the current case numbers but certainly not hospitalisations or deaths. 
 

These new guidelines are a sham. 

[Nucky Thompson]

9 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

So 38 in 1000 likely to be an overestimation then?

There might be four times as many infections and if they had the same testing regime as the UK, they might find them.

So 38 in 1000 then becomes 38 in 4000.

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, Nucky Thompson said:

There might be four times as many infections and if they had the same testing regime as the UK, they might find them.

So 38 in 1000 then becomes 38 in 4000.

But wasn’t the study based on a certain number of infected cases? As in “we looked at x amount of people infected with Omicron and this percentage of them ended up in hospital”. That makes testing levels irrelevant for the 38 in 1000 estimate? 🤷🏻‍♂️

[The Mighty Thor]

13 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Let’s be crystal clear here we would be locked down given the supposed transmission rate if there wasn’t a confidence on the mildness of this variant. Hospitalisations isn’t the concern imo it’s the effect on the uk workforce. On the supposed transmission rate I’m not sure how it’s possible for there to be so few recorded cases at this stage. Unless of course it is so mild hundreds of thousands are walking about carrying omicron without a care in the world. 
 

* No studies have been carried out to form this opinion. 

I think you're bang on the cash with your assertion that the issue is the workforce impact. It's already biting. 

 

I also think you're spot on that there are a large number of people, probably hundreds of thousands and most likely vaccinated, walking around with Omicron who have no idea they've even got it. 

 

I saw an article of the 5 symptoms of Omicron, which are different from the traditional loss of taste and smell etc, and to be honest i've got 2 or 3 of them pretty much every day in every winter and like most normal people you just pop a couple of paracetamol and off to work. 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, Dazo said:

England have rightly changed the rules on isolation where a negative test allows you to return to work. A negative pcr test should always supersede isolation rules. This would help. 

I agree with this. 

 

It's the whole fundamental point of the vaccinations and boosters. To allow us to get on with life and live with the virus. 

 

I think the SG might need to review this as workforce numbers drop due to the full household policy. 

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

I agree with this. 

 

It's the whole fundamental point of the vaccinations and boosters. To allow us to get on with life and live with the virus. 

 

I think the SG might need to review this as workforce numbers drop due to the full household policy. 

I suspect it will be changed imminently and household contacts will be moved to the same as non-household contacts (negative PCR releases you)

[Dennis Denuto]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

I suspect it will be changed imminently and household contacts will be moved to the same as non-household contacts (negative PCR releases you)

I have a feeling they have the isolation set just now to try and slow the spread as much as they can, I also agree it will be changed soon to testing releases you.

[Nucky Thompson]

4 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

But wasn’t the study based on a certain number of infected cases? As in “we looked at x amount of people infected with Omicron and this percentage of them ended up in hospital”. That makes testing levels irrelevant for the 38 in 1000 estimate? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

So you have 10,000 people, 4000 are infected, but you only find 1000 of them. 38 end up in hospital.

If you had a better testing system you would find more cases, but the 38 people in hospital would be the same.

[Dazo]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I think you're bang on the cash with your assertion that the issue is the workforce impact. It's already biting. 

 

I also think you're spot on that there are a large number of people, probably hundreds of thousands and most likely vaccinated, walking around with Omicron who have no idea they've even got it. 

 

I saw an article of the 5 symptoms of Omicron, which are different from the traditional loss of taste and smell etc, and to be honest i've got 2 or 3 of them pretty much every day in every winter and like most normal people you just pop a couple of paracetamol and off to work. 

What are those symptoms ? I’d imagine most of us could pick out 2 or 3 and wilfully ignore at this time of year. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Just to deflect from partygate and the changes in Humans Rights going through Parliament just now. 

what changes?  I couldnt find anything about it? apart from this article ? 

 

Human Rights Act: UK government unveils reform proposals - BBC News

[Taffin]

Why is there such a rush for booster jabbing just now? 

 

I don't tend to do a lot of socialising in January so whether I get it now, or in Jan seems somewhat irrelevant and instead more risky having these huge queues of people scrambling to get one.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

So you have 10,000 people, 4000 are infected, but you only find 1000 of them. 38 end up in hospital.

If you had a better testing system you would find more cases, but the 38 people in hospital would be the same.

 

That's my take on it too. You can't really arrive at a percentage with any accuracy as you've no idea how big a pool those 38 people actually came from.

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

So you have 10,000 people, 4000 are infected, but you only find 1000 of them. 38 end up in hospital.

If you had a better testing system you would find more cases, but the 38 people in hospital would be the same.

I had a wee read back:

 

”Officials who analysed 78,000 Omicron cases in the past month estimated the risk of hospitalisation was a fifth lower than with Delta and 29 per cent lower than the original virus.  

As a crude rate, Omicron is currently leading to a third fewer hospital admissions than Delta did during its entire wave — 38 admissions per 1,000 Omicron cases compared to 101 per 1,000 for Delta.”

 

That would suggest that they’ve based it on a percentage of confirmed cases but I take your point that poor testing = lots of cases out there that didn’t require hospitalisation so that probably means the 38 figure is skewed. 👍🏻

[Dennis Denuto]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Why is there such a rush for booster jabbing just now? 

 

I don't tend to do a lot of socialising in January so whether I get it now, or in Jan seems somewhat irrelevant and instead more risky having these huge queues of people scrambling to get one.

If you look at from the angle that you are going to get sick rather than form your usual angle of not going to get sick then it makes perfect sense to get it as soon as possible.

 

Having a system that was ready to cope before announcing the increase in vaccinations would have probably helped

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Why is there such a rush for booster jabbing just now? 

 

I don't tend to do a lot of socialising in January so whether I get it now, or in Jan seems somewhat irrelevant and instead more risky having these huge queues of people scrambling to get one.

Think it’s probably the fear of booster being required as part of vaccine passports at some point in future combined with wanting to lower risk of catching it over festive period and ruining your plans rather than a fear about the new variant posing a risk to their health. Understandable reaction.

[Dennis Denuto]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

That's my take on it too. You can't really arrive at a percentage with any accuracy as you've no idea how big a pool those 38 people actually came from.

They have probably assumed that they pick up as many +ve cases of each variant tested for, so they missed as many deltas as they have omicron. Still could mean it is even lower % of cases end up in Hospital though

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

If you look at from the angle that you are going to get sick rather than form your usual angle of not going to get sick then it makes perfect sense to get it as soon as possible.

 

Having a system that was ready to cope before announcing the increase in vaccinations would have probably helped

 

 

But it's staggeringly unlikely that I will get sick...but okay putting that to the side and assuming I will, given I'm not going to be meeting up with many people in January, what's the rush to get it now? Especially when it risks exposure to do so. Why not just wait until January when hopefully it's quiter and in advance of getting back on the socialising train in Feb onwards?

Edited December 15, 2021 by Taffin
Edit: didn't make sense (arguably doesn't anyway 😂)

[JudyJudyJudy]

So its herd immunity now it seems by the backdoor. 

 

Great. Vast majority of the vulnerable / elderly triple jabbed.

 

Others having almost zero symptoms of omicron.

 

Keep things as opened as near normal as possible.

 

People follow the usual guidelines.

 

Result. 

 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

They have probably assumed that they pick up as many +ve cases of each variant tested for, so they missed as many deltas as they have omicron. Still could mean it is even lower % of cases end up in Hospital though

 

For something they seem to be saying is:

 

- more transmissible

- less likely to make you ill 

 

Wouldn't both of those things surely greatly increase the amount of people walking around oblivious to whether they have it or not?

 

 

[Dennis Denuto]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

For something they seem to be saying is:

 

- more transmissible

- less likely to make you ill 

 

Wouldn't both of those things surely greatly increase the amount of people walking around oblivious to whether they have it or not?

 

 

It would if they are correct, but then how do they know if people are walking about oblivious? 

 

I think we all want answers now, but it will be pretty clear soon enough, my hunch based only listening to various different opinions, it will be less serious variant but not as much as we want, cases will go up significantly, but not as bad as some are predicting.

 

By the end of January we will hopefully be wondering what all the fuss was about.

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Poor James. You spend the evening going out of your way to be as antagonistic as possible and then complain of bullying when people are less than pleasant in return. 

 

If it's upsetting you, you can always pretend to leave the thread again and then do a U-turn and return tomorrow.

 

Not getting into any arguments.  I wont be leaving the thread. I only " left" for a brief time and then I saw some heart warming  posts wondering where I was so i had to make a comeback.  anyway I always view each new day as a new start. Its a good way to look at life. 

  Have a great day everyone 

 

[Victorian]

Repeating from yesterday,  a virus suddenly changing virtually overnight to a different version with decreased severity of any significance is completely contrary to perceived and observed knowledge.  Most viruses that have caused harm in the past still exist today and with the same virulence.  There are other reasons why they become less dangerous.  Like the building up of innate,  population immune memory.

 

We'll only get a true and reliable measure of this thing once a proper,  like-for-like comparison can be drawn between it's effects here and that of other variants.  Here and similar countries regarding demographics.

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

It would if they are correct, but then how do they know if people are walking about oblivious? 

 

I think we all want answers now, but it will be pretty clear soon enough, my hunch based only listening to various different opinions, it will be less serious variant but not as much as we want, cases will go up significantly, but not as bad as some are predicting.

 

By the end of January we will hopefully be wondering what all the fuss was about.

 

👍👍 On that we certainly agree

[Alex Kintner]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

For something they seem to be saying is:

 

- more transmissible

- less likely to make you ill 

 

Wouldn't both of those things surely greatly increase the amount of people walking around oblivious to whether they have it or not?

 

 

That’s a very good point. They’re going to be missing a lot more Omicron infections than Delta. 👍🏻

[Konrad von Carstein]

Enjoyed this critique of. Desmond Swayne's idiocy...

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/desmond-swayne-vaccine-passports-omicron-b1976083.html

 

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

That’s a very good point. They’re going to be missing a lot more Omicron infections than Delta. 👍🏻

 

Maybe not such good point based on what Vic has said above 👍

 

I'm working off the assumption that the asymptomatic ratio remains broadly 1 in 3 for Omicron. By virtue of it's increased transmissibility then you've now got a lot more asymptomatic cases out there not going for tests.

 

Of course the asymptomatic cases for it may be 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 for Omicron...but also based on Vic's post it sounds as though such a significant change would be unlikely

 

 

With vaccines etc I'd have thought it would have moved in the other direction...but that's complete assumption (and hope) on my part.

[Nucky Thompson]

11 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Repeating from yesterday,  a virus suddenly changing virtually overnight to a different version with decreased severity of any significance is completely contrary to perceived and observed knowledge.  Most viruses that have caused harm in the past still exist today and with the same virulence.  There are other reasons why they become less dangerous.  Like the building up of innate,  population immune memory.

 

We'll only get a true and reliable measure of this thing once a proper,  like-for-like comparison can be drawn between it's effects here and that of other variants.  Here and similar countries regarding demographics.

What happened with the Spanish Flu?

They obviously didn't know if the virus was changing then, because they didn't have the technology.

That petered out after a couple of years

[cannonfoda]

51 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I agree with this. 

 

It's the whole fundamental point of the vaccinations and boosters. To allow us to get on with life and live with the virus. 

 

I think the SG might need to review this as workforce numbers drop due to the full household policy. 

There's already exceptions if you work nhs.  Daily testing allowed like england. 

[Boab]

15 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What happened with the Spanish Flu?

They obviously didn't know if the virus was changing then, because they didn't have the technology.

That petered out after a couple of years

Still around...and probably always will be. Influenza A virus.

 

[Ray Gin]

16 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Not getting into any arguments.  I wont be leaving the thread. I only " left" for a brief time and then I saw some heart warming  posts wondering where I was so i had to make a comeback.  anyway I always view each new day as a new start. Its a good way to look at life. 

  Have a great day everyone 

 

 

 

Going into the day with a post implying you have "enemies" and a desire to annoy them as much as possible doesn't seem like a fresh new start tbh. Maybe take a less combative approach? I'm sure you will notice a friendlier response from others in return.

[cannonfoda]

38 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

So its herd immunity now it seems by the backdoor. 

 

Great. Vast majority of the vulnerable / elderly triple jabbed.

 

Others having almost zero symptoms of omicron.

 

Keep things as opened as near normal as possible.

 

People follow the usual guidelines.

 

Result. 

 

Except this gives the sars virus a bigger pool of people to mutate in - which is where omicron derived from.  

 

If we really wanted this virus dead then full 21 day isolation of everyone would finish it.  Spend the 37 billion test and trace budget on food and supply parcels for the population to stay inside - have a rule if you're caught breaking curfew you're locked up for the time and the virus would burn itself out.

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, cannonfoda said:

There's already exceptions if you work nhs.  Daily testing allowed like england. 

Same in Education👍🏻

[Dennis Denuto]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

Daft question, I'm sure, but one assumes that the paper-copy Scottish vaccine passport will work in England?

 

Heading to Yorkshire for a pre-Christmas holiday and am aware of their archer's shoot on sight policy, so don't want to land myself in any more trouble.

Just get a Conservative Party membership card, should see you safe in most situations.

 

I have to say I am surprised and a little disappointed in this level of compliance from you, who is going to be our champion of freedoms and liberty now?

[jambogaza]

The SG need to step back a little bit now and breathe. Constantly telling people more restrictions might come isn't helpful (Swinney on radio this AM). People got the message yesterday and we now need to wait and see. It feels like the 'prepare for the worst' strategy has got a bit excessive. I understand the need for precautions but sometimes it needs tempered. And I am not anti SG or NS by any means. 

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Going into the day with a post implying you have "enemies" and a desire to annoy them as much as possible doesn't seem like a fresh new start tbh. Maybe take a less combative approach? I'm sure you will notice a friendlier response from others in return.

Please don’t indulge him. We’re managing to have an interesting discussion about Covid this morning and his bizarre posts will just take it off-topic 👍🏻

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, jonesy said:

Daft question, I'm sure, but one assumes that the paper-copy Scottish vaccine passport will work in England?

 

Heading to Yorkshire for a pre-Christmas holiday and am aware of their archer's shoot on sight policy, so don't want to land myself in any more trouble.

Im sure jambo for ever will give you some advice regarding this  

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

Going into the day with a post implying you have "enemies" and a desire to annoy them as much as possible doesn't seem like a fresh new start tbh. Maybe take a less combative approach? I'm sure you will notice a friendlier response from others in return.

Its light-hearted quote. I don't see anyone as an enemy.  In fact i have no enemies.  Unsure about the "combative approach" really but ill take on board your comments. Maybe others need to think too how they respond and post as well.