Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, cannonfoda said:

Except this gives the sars virus a bigger pool of people to mutate in - which is where omicron derived from.  

 

If we really wanted this virus dead then full 21 day isolation of everyone would finish it.  Spend the 37 billion test and trace budget on food and supply parcels for the population to stay inside - have a rule if you're caught breaking curfew you're locked up for the time and the virus would burn itself out.

 

 

That was actually suggested. It would have worked too. 

[Victorian]

25 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

What happened with the Spanish Flu?

They obviously didn't know if the virus was changing then, because they didn't have the technology.

That petered out after a couple of years

 

Yes.  Completely different conditions though.  The population of the world was circa 25% of today's world and with nothing like the same type of interconnectivity.  Spanish Flu still exists and it's characteristics haven't really changed.  There's widespread immunity and immune memory that's built up and sustained over a century.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Victorian

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, cannonfoda said:

Except this gives the sars virus a bigger pool of people to mutate in - which is where omicron derived from.  

 

If we really wanted this virus dead then full 21 day isolation of everyone would finish it.  Spend the 37 billion test and trace budget on food and supply parcels for the population to stay inside - have a rule if you're caught breaking curfew you're locked up for the time and the virus would burn itself out.

 

 

Wouldn’t it just survive in those who can’t hibernate for 21 days (essential workers) and then spread again afterwards?

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

The SG need to step back a little bit now and breathe. Constantly telling people more restrictions might come isn't helpful (Swinney on radio this AM). People got the message yesterday and we now need to wait and see. It feels like the 'prepare for the worst' strategy has got a bit excessive. I understand the need for precautions but sometimes it needs tempered. And I am not anti SG or NS by any means. 

Yes i read that too and it pissed me off, We have got the message. Bloody show some respect to the population and stop the constant threats. 

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

The SG need to step back a little bit now and breathe. Constantly telling people more restrictions might come isn't helpful (Swinney on radio this AM). People got the message yesterday and we now need to wait and see. It feels like the 'prepare for the worst' strategy has got a bit excessive. I understand the need for precautions but sometimes it needs tempered. And I am not anti SG or NS by any means. 

Given a lot of the current stuff is “guidance” rather than restrictions then they need to keep beating the drum that if the guidance isn’t followed then formal restrictions will be more likely. It’s understandable imo.

[Dennis Denuto]

3 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

The SG need to step back a little bit now and breathe. Constantly telling people more restrictions might come isn't helpful (Swinney on radio this AM). People got the message yesterday and we now need to wait and see. It feels like the 'prepare for the worst' strategy has got a bit excessive. I understand the need for precautions but sometimes it needs tempered. And I am not anti SG or NS by any means. 

I agree, come on and re-inforce the messaging for the new guidelines, encourage boosters and LFTs but no need to threaten new restrictions a day after the introduction of restrictions.

 

(BTW Just to say I haven't actually heard them on the Radio, just taking your point as it is)

[jambogaza]

5 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Given a lot of the current stuff is “guidance” rather than restrictions then they need to keep beating the drum that if the guidance isn’t followed then formal restrictions will be more likely. It’s understandable imo.

 

Perhaps. I'm just mindful of how emotionally exhausted people are and they could easily switch off/become quite angry if they feel they are being met with constant 'threats'.

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, jambogaza said:

The SG need to step back a little bit now and breathe. Constantly telling people more restrictions might come isn't helpful (Swinney on radio this AM). People got the message yesterday and we now need to wait and see. It feels like the 'prepare for the worst' strategy has got a bit excessive. I understand the need for precautions but sometimes it needs tempered. And I am not anti SG or NS by any means. 

I think the opposite. Rather than imposing restrictions in a mandatory way, they are giving the population the chance to act responsibly.

I much prefer that to going back to more stringent rules of the past.

Most people take on board the warnings and will act accordingly.

The zoomers will find a way to complain, which is a zoomer trait !

[Victorian]

It isn't an absolute unknown of course.  I read articles about this subject and seemingly there was at least one identified virus that did appear to 'weaken',  as it is often described by people.  

 

Who are any of us to say,  even competent scientists,  that it can be excluded as a possibility that a rapid and radical change occurs?  New or rare discoveries are made.  Scientists can be taken by surprise.

 

The point is that it's entirely proper that our scientists need to verify something that challenges their understandings.  

Edited December 15, 2021 by Victorian

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Boab said:

I think the opposite. Rather than imposing restrictions in a mandatory way, they are giving the population the chance to act responsibly.

I much prefer that to going back to more stringent rules of the past.

Most people take on board the warnings and will act accordingly.

The zoomers will find a way to complain, which is a zoomer trait !

That’s where I am. I’d rather put up with non-stop warnings and guidance than have further restrictions👍🏻

[jambogaza]

7 minutes ago, Boab said:

I think the opposite. Rather than imposing restrictions in a mandatory way, they are giving the population the chance to act responsibly.

I much prefer that to going back to more stringent rules of the past.

Most people take on board the warnings and will act accordingly.

The zoomers will find a way to complain, which is a zoomer trait !

 

Fair enough. I have taken on board what was said. As I said previously, I'm supportive of the SG and have sympathy for some of the difficult decisions they're having to take. I just think you always need to remember your audience and how they're feeling. Yesterday, despite being voluntary, was still tough to hear.

[Boab]

Just now, jambogaza said:

 

Fair enough. I have taken on board what was said. As I said previously, I'm supportive of the SG and have sympathy for some of the difficult decisions they're having to take. I just think you always need to remember your audience and how they're feeling. Yesterday, despite being voluntary, was still tough to hear.

I think many people were surprised at the actual lack of restrictions imposed yesterday. 

It was a result really !

As I said, the vast majority will take on board the warnings and be happy that no mandatory restrictions were re-introduced.

I do, however, take on board, criticism of certain terminology used. Tsunami, tidal wave...we could have done without really !

[cannonfoda]

17 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Wouldn’t it just survive in those who can’t hibernate for 21 days (essential workers) and then spread again afterwards?

You can setup to isolate key workers in their roles.  

[Brighton Jambo]

21 minutes ago, cannonfoda said:

Except this gives the sars virus a bigger pool of people to mutate in - which is where omicron derived from.  

 

If we really wanted this virus dead then full 21 day isolation of everyone would finish it.  Spend the 37 billion test and trace budget on food and supply parcels for the population to stay inside - have a rule if you're caught breaking curfew you're locked up for the time and the virus would burn itself out.

 

 

Except it wouldn’t though.  What about doctors and nurses and fireman and police officers and all those other people who can’t stay at home to keep essential infrastructure working.  I work in the pharmaceutical industry, hundreds of people needed onsite everyday, can’t stop that.   Sure you might drive the number right down but as soon as you open up after 21 days it rips through people again.  
 

Lockdowns are a delaying measure, nothing more. 

[cannonfoda]

Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

Except it wouldn’t though.  What about doctors and nurses and fireman and police officers and all those other people who can’t stay at home to keep essential infrastructure working.  I work in the pharmaceutical industry, hundreds of people needed onsite everyday, can’t stop that.   Sure you might drive the number right down but as soon as you open up after 21 days it rips through people again.  
 

Lockdowns are a delaying measure, nothing more. 

You cn shut everything down for a period.  No industry etc.  Use the 37 billion to subsidise it.

[Dennis Denuto]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Except it wouldn’t though.  What about doctors and nurses and fireman and police officers and all those other people who can’t stay at home to keep essential infrastructure working.  I work in the pharmaceutical industry, hundreds of people needed onsite everyday, can’t stop that.   Sure you might drive the number right down but as soon as you open up after 21 days it rips through people again.  
 

Lockdowns are a delaying measure, nothing more. 

In theory it works, but the same as the theory of isolate the vulnerable it falls down in reality, as you point out.

 

It would work as long as you were willing to have many vulnerable people dying in their homes waiting for care or medication.

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, cannonfoda said:

You can setup to isolate key workers in their roles.  

Not possible imo. There’s also the fact you would need to have the whole world on board and doing it at the same time. 

[Boab]

Test, test, test !

As sensible now as it was first said in March 2020.

[Dennis Denuto]

1 minute ago, cannonfoda said:

You cn shut everything down for a period.  No industry etc.  Use the 37 billion to subsidise it.

What about hospitals and emergency care? What about those required to enforce the shut down, there are some naughty people out there you know. What about those that can't care for themselves? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

made me laugh anyway 

 

 

 

 

[Victorian]

It's impossible but,  even if it was possible,  you could literally have an absolute lockdown of everything,  with 100% compliance,  for a period of time to achieve absolute elimination of a current epidemic.  But it's pointless.  As soon as you move a muscle,  it comes back in anyway.  Through interconnectivity and freight,  etc.  There's also every chance that animal kingdom reservoirs exist.

 

There's something clearly at odds currently.  Between the reported scale,  speed of spread,  likely severity (same or reduced),  scale of impact on workforce/supply chain and the apparent range of measures of suppression.  I think it indicates an overall balance between some delaying tactics,  time to evaluate and a,  perhaps reluctant,  policy to stand back and allow the wave to hit in as big a way as can be coped with.

 

Less suppression = shorter duration.

[William H. Bonney]

11 hours ago, been here before said:

 

Maybe he's no ears.

reminds me of this …

 

 

[milky_26]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59664076

 

The government should just have laced the tips of their arrows/bolts to increase vaccine take up.

 

But seriously that is crazy to think about/plan to kill a leader you don't agree with. No doubt there will have been people thinking similar for either NS or BJ in this country

[Brighton Jambo]

12 minutes ago, cannonfoda said:

You cn shut everything down for a period.  No industry etc.  Use the 37 billion to subsidise it.

If you shut my industry down the hospitals won’t have the drugs they need to keep patients alive.  You cannot shut the pharmaceutical industry down, we are not talking paracetamol here we are talking specialist drugs that support across a range of medical needs.  

 

You cannot shut hospitals.  And how do doctors and nurses get to work? If they don’t drive they need trains and buses, if they do drive the cars needs petrol, which means you need trucks drivers filling up petrol stations.  And how does hospitals get all the supplies they needs to function that’s right the supply chain which needs to operate to provide those supplies which means more business open etc

 

these food parcels, where do they come from?  Warehouses I presume so that needs people working there and being able to travel there and truck drivers and delivery drivers etc etc
 

There are loads more examples that I could give.  
 

It’s not about money to pay people to sit at home, the country would cease to function and thousands would die.  
 

I assume you know all this and are trying to make a clumsy point about £37b being a waste of money.  But the point as it stands is utter nonsense. 

[milky_26]

Just now, William H. Bonney said:

reminds me of this …

 

 

That needs to go on the daft meme thread if it is not already there

[Ray Gin]

44 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Please don’t indulge him. We’re managing to have an interesting discussion about Covid this morning and his bizarre posts will just take it off-topic 👍🏻

 

He's a reasonable enough poster on pretty much every other thread tbh, unlike some posters who are just full-time trolls and best ignored.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

It's impossible but,  even if it was possible,  you could literally have an absolute lockdown of everything,  with 100% compliance,  for a period of time to achieve absolute elimination of a current epidemic.  But it's pointless.  As soon as you move a muscle,  it comes back in anyway.  Through interconnectivity and freight,  etc.  There's also every chance that animal kingdom reservoirs exist.

 

There's something clearly at odds currently.  Between the reported scale,  speed of spread,  likely severity (same or reduced),  scale of impact on workforce/supply chain and the apparent range of measures of suppression.  I think it indicates an overall balance between some delaying tactics,  time to evaluate and a,  perhaps reluctant,  policy to stand back and allow the wave to hit in as big a way as can be coped with.

 

Less suppression = shorter duration.

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. They are waiting until things get to an " unmanageable " stage via hospital admission's surely?   They would struggle to when much support if they had any harsher restrictions if people note the deaths . ICU and hospital stats are still very low. And yes  I know they will argue its a preventative measure . 

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Daft question, I'm sure, but one assumes that the paper-copy Scottish vaccine passport will work in England?

 

Heading to Yorkshire for a pre-Christmas holiday and am aware of their archer's shoot on sight policy, so don't want to land myself in any more trouble.

 

Never been asked for it here in London. Only time I've needed it thus far (in England) is at the channel tunnel. On the continent t'was non stop...

Edited December 15, 2021 by Japan Jambo
correction

[JudyJudyJudy]

49 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Please don’t indulge him. We’re managing to have an interesting discussion about Covid this morning and his bizarre posts will just take it off-topic 👍🏻

Oh come on stop it , Stop trying to censor people on this thread. That's not nice. In fact that's quite a combative statement to make. I start every day afresh. You don't it seems. Carry on perceived grudges. Let it go eh.

 

Seriously what a pompous comment. Your only nice when people agree with you then its the claws out when people have the cheek to have a difference of opinion.  Who died and made you queen of this thread ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

He's a reasonable enough poster on pretty much every other thread tbh, unlike some posters who are just full-time trolls and best ignored.

 

[Alex Kintner]

15 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

He's a reasonable enough poster on pretty much every other thread tbh, unlike some posters who are just full-time trolls and best ignored.

I can only go by this thread and the political threads as that’s the only place I notice him and he’s all over the place on those ones. 
 

Agree he’s not as bad as the deliberate trolls though (especially the perverted, lying ones) 👍🏻

[Dennis Denuto]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Agreed, I think that is what is happening. They are waiting until things get to an " unmanageable " stage via hospital admission's surely?   They would struggle to when much support if they had any harsher restrictions if people note the deaths . ICU and hospital stats are still very low. And yes  I know they will argue its a preventative measure . 

They are low because infection (+ve test) numbers are low, or were 11 days ago when this relates to hospital cases. So since vaccination the lag time for cases to hospital numbers is about 11 days and in that time the number in hospital on any given day is about 17.5% of the number of cases 11 day prior (this moves about a bit between 15+20%). That is still true just now, but it is right now we should see the numbers in hospital start to rise as the cases have been for the last week and half.

 

That is much the same for the number of daily admissions, slightly more volatile number though. So it is the next few days only that things might start to change and we will se how quickly they do change if at all.

 

The numbers have still been higher than this since we opened up again.

[Dazo]

Where is this sudden change came from ? We are baw deep in 2 years and several variants, is that sudden or dramatic change ? 
 

Nobody is saying this variant is the messiah but **** me what is being  warned about and reported isn’t actually happening. 

[Dennis Denuto]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

I can only go by this thread and the political threads as that’s the only place I notice him and he’s all over the place on those ones. 
 

Agree he’s not as bad as the deliberate trolls though (especially the perverted, lying ones) 👍🏻

He's admitted to trolling before and he was definitely at the wind up yesterday. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

59 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Please don’t indulge him. We’re managing to have an interesting discussion about Covid this morning and his bizarre posts will just take it off-topic 👍🏻

Actually please refrain from trying to encourage other people to interact with me on this thread or indeed any others because you don't like my postings. Its trolling, bullying and harassment behaviours. You are now making me feel very anxious to post on this thread due to your behaviours. So stop it now. By all means disagree with me but to encourage others to do so is reprehensible. 

[Dennis Denuto]

Just now, Dazo said:

Where is this sudden change came from ? We are baw deep in 2 years and several variants, is that sudden or dramatic change ? 
 

Nobody is saying this variant is the messiah but **** me what is being  warned about and reported isn’t actually happening. 

I think we will see in the next few days how things are going to go - I am not qualified to predict that in any way however.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I think we will see in the next few days how things are going to go - I am not qualified to predict that in any way however.

Havent we heard that all before ?  " the next few days " " the next few weeks "  " 3 week circuit breaker" 

[Dennis Denuto]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Actually please refrain from trying to encourage other people to interact with me on this thread or indeed any others because you don't like my postings. Its trolling, bullying and harassment behaviours. You are now making me feel very anxious to post on this thread due to your behaviours. So stop it now. By all means disagree with me but to encourage others to do so is reprehensible. 

James re-read your posts from yesterday, I would say you made your bed..............

[Dazo]

18 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

He's a reasonable enough poster on pretty much every other thread tbh, unlike some posters who are just full-time trolls and best ignored.

 

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

I can only go by this thread and the political threads as that’s the only place I notice him and he’s all over the place on those ones. 
 

Agree he’s not as bad as the deliberate trolls though (especially the perverted, lying ones) 👍🏻

And yet the two of you are among the first down his throat. Constantly picking up every little thing he posts, trying to humiliate, smear or discredit. Full of encouragement for others to join in. James is James but **** knows what that makes you and the rest of your little gang. 

[manaliveits105]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Actually please refrain from trying to encourage other people to interact with me on this thread or indeed any others because you don't like my postings. Its trolling, bullying and harassment behaviours. You are now making me feel very anxious to post on this thread due to your behaviours. So stop it now. By all means disagree with me but to encourage others to do so is reprehensible. 

the nationalist trolls seem lonely souls they only post in packs 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dennis Denuto said:

James re-read your posts from yesterday, I would say you made your bed..............

 

5 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

He's admitted to trolling before and he was definitely at the wind up yesterday. 

at the wind up yesterday cause I criticised Sturgeon ?  Aye .

[Dennis Denuto]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Havent we heard that all before ?  " the next few days " " the next few weeks "  " 3 week circuit breaker" 

Yes and those days told us bad news and things changed, the circuit breaker didn't really work and then ultimately Alpha came along a screwed everything up.

 

The next few days doesn't mean it will be good news, it could be really bad news as well, we just need to wait and see.

 

In the mean time carry on with life as we all see fit, within the rules as they are.

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I think we will see in the next few days how things are going to go - I am not qualified to predict that in any way however.

Absolutely, having an positive opinion that doesn’t reflect those of chief mamma doesn’t make you the big bad wolf though. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

 

And yet the two of you are among the first down his throat. Constantly picking up every little thing he posts, trying to humiliate, smear or discredit. Full of encouragement for others to join in. James is James but **** knows what that makes you and the rest of your little gang. 

In  a nutshell. Honestly i feel like i don't want to post on this any more. Its never ending. Relentless. 

[Alex Kintner]

7 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Actually please refrain from trying to encourage other people to interact with me on this thread or indeed any others because you don't like my postings. Its trolling, bullying and harassment behaviours. You are now making me feel very anxious to post on this thread due to your behaviours. So stop it now. By all means disagree with me but to encourage others to do so is reprehensible. 

 

Stick me on ignore if my “reprehensible” behaviour upsets you that much.

 

 

 

[Dennis Denuto]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Absolutely, having an positive opinion that doesn’t reflect those of chief mamma doesn’t make you the big bad wolf though. 

But using terms like "Chief Mamma" is designed for debating differing opinions though, it is to try and trigger a response.

 

I also suspect what you define as positive may not be the same as me.

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 

And yet the two of you are among the first down his throat. Constantly picking up every little thing he posts, trying to humiliate, smear or discredit. Full of encouragement for others to join in. James is James but **** knows what that makes you and the rest of your little gang. 

It’s curious that this thread was on-topic and interesting until the arrival of certain posters…

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Absolutely, having an positive opinion that doesn’t reflect those of chief mamma doesn’t make you the big bad wolf though. 

Exactly this is the big underlying issue on this thread . its not about covid . Its about chief mammy and anyone who dares to criticise her and her covid polices etc is persona non grata. Its been like that from the beginning really but its more virulent now with some posters. In particular one of them. 

[Alex Kintner]

10 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Where is this sudden change came from ? We are baw deep in 2 years and several variants, is that sudden or dramatic change ? 
 

Nobody is saying this variant is the messiah but **** me what is being  warned about and reported isn’t actually happening. 

Cases look to be starting to rise swiftly. Given the normal lag we’ll see hospital admissions follow (but hopefully to a much lesser extent)

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

 

Stick me on ignore if my “reprehensible” behaviour upsets you that much.

 

 

 

Tried that but you were still trolling me  I am asking you to make no further comments about me. Simple as that. Ill stay clear from you  you stay clear from me. Your a bully.