Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Dennis Denuto]

7 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Just reading up more on Austria and their possible plans . I’m wondering how they are going to Ensure that those unvaccinated are staying at home if forced to ? Seriously how will they do this ? The only logical way is to make sure those vaccinated have Sone form of visual identification on them such as an arm band of some sort ? Police can’t check everyone outside all of the time ? So this seems the practical thing to do ? Not stirring it . Just genuinely wondering how they may implement it . ? 

I would think it simple to scan QR codes with an app when any person enters a place of work or business the restrictions apply to, much easier than checking those entering a huge crowd for an event.

 

Also experience over the last couple of years is that most people comply with the restrictions and laws as requested.

[Victorian]

Dazo gaslighting people about their occupations again.  Getting it hopelessly wrong though.  Again.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

52 minutes ago, Dennis Denuto said:

I would think it simple to scan QR codes with an app when any person enters a place of work or business the restrictions apply to, much easier than checking those entering a huge crowd for an event.

 

Also experience over the last couple of years is that most people comply with the restrictions and laws as requested.

And there will be a roaring trade in Fake Vp too . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Dazo gaslighting people about their occupations again.  Getting it hopelessly wrong though.  Again.

 

 

Actually I may be wrong but I’m positive Alex has stated he was / is a teacher 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Actually I may be wrong but I’m positive Alex has stated he was / is a teacher 

 

I know he was.  Which tends to exclude him being a "fake teacher".  

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Fake teachers don’t actually get to mark homework Alex. 

🤣🤣

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Unless he does some film work on the side. Either that or driving instructor/taxi driver.

 

He's a lion tamer.  I'm a lion tamer.

[Nucky Thompson]

9 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Just reading up more on Austria and their possible plans . I’m wondering how they are going to Ensure that those unvaccinated are staying at home if forced to ? Seriously how will they do this ? The only logical way is to make sure those vaccinated have Sone form of visual identification on them such as an arm band of some sort ? Police can’t check everyone outside all of the time ? So this seems the practical thing to do ? Not stirring it . Just genuinely wondering how they may implement it . ? 

They could paint stars on their front doors and encourage their neighbours to call the 'hotline' 

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Fake teachers don’t actually get to mark homework Alex. 

What about marking shite attempts at trolling? 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

It will be “ random” checks apparently . No I wasn’t joking about the armbands as it’s easier to see at a glance who “ the unvaccinated “ are . 

 

Should the armbands have a symbol on them?

 

15 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

He's a lion tamer.  I'm a lion tamer.

That’s my mane occupation 👍🏻

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

 

That’s my mane occupation 👍🏻

 

And doing it with pride.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

They could paint stars on their front doors and encourage their neighbours to call the 'hotline' 

Yep 👍 good idea 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

What about marking shite attempts at trolling? 🤷🏻‍♂️
 

 

Should the armbands have a symbol on them?

 

That’s my mane occupation 👍🏻

Yes they can be one colour for the vaccinated people then another colour for “ the unvaccinated. “ after all how would they be able to tell the difference ? 

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

Yes they can be one colour for the vaccinated people then another colour for “ the unvaccinated. “ after all how would they be able to tell the difference ? 

By the fact the vaccinated aren’t wearing an armband at all?

 

Need to keep the different colours for the unvacs that get promoted to discipline the other unvacs. 

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

And doing it with pride.

👌🏻👍🏻

[Japan Jambo]

9 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Just reading up more on Austria and their possible plans . I’m wondering how they are going to Ensure that those unvaccinated are staying at home if forced to ? Seriously how will they do this ? The only logical way is to make sure those vaccinated have Sone form of visual identification on them such as an arm band of some sort ? Police can’t check everyone outside all of the time ? So this seems the practical thing to do ? Not stirring it . Just genuinely wondering how they may implement it . ? 

 

They can't, instead they'll consider bringing in restrictions on everyone. Really think that notion needs resisting; we've given up too much already by way of civil liberties and I for one am not happy with the notion of being held hostage by folks who won't (or can't) get a simple jab. Everyone in western Europe has had the chance to get vaccinated at this stage, on a simple level I'd contend that was up to them and it's their right to decide but what we'll hear now incessantly is how the health services across the continent can't cope.

 

As ever the actions and consequences aren't lining up neatly and the behaviour of a selfish but significant minority are impacting us all. Perhaps the next civil liberty that should be thrown on the bonfire IS the right to refuse a vaccine?

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

Parts of Germany now bringing in increased restrictions for unvacs as well. Won’t be allowed access to restaurants, bars, cinemas or theatres. 
 

Dutch apparently considering it too.

[JimmyCant]

13 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

They could paint stars on their front doors and encourage their neighbours to call the 'hotline' 

Which Is precisely what he was not so subtlety hinting at to fit his nazi big brother conspiracy, that he’s sold to us throughout the thread.

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

They can't, instead they'll consider bringing in restrictions on everyone. Really think that notion needs resisting; we've given up too much already by way of civil liberties and I for one am not happy with the notion of being held hostage by folks who won't (or can't) get a simple jab. Everyone in western Europe has had the chance to get vaccinated at this stage, on a simple level I'd contend that was up to them and it's their right to decide but what we'll hear now incessantly is how the health services across the continent can't cope.

 

As ever the actions and consequences aren't lining up neatly and the behaviour of a selfish but significant minority are impacting us all. Perhaps the next civil liberty that should be thrown on the bonfire IS the right to refuse a vaccine?

 

 

You can’t make vaccines compulsory, that crosses the line. For me you have to give people the choice but a fully-informed choice where they know the consequences of not getting it.

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Which Is precisely what he was not so subtlety hinting at to fit his nazi big brother conspiracy, that he’s sold to us throughout the thread.

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

You can’t make vaccines compulsory, that crosses the line. For me you have to give people the choice but a fully-informed choice where they know the consequences of not getting it.

👍👍

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

Dazo gaslighting people about their occupations again.  Getting it hopelessly wrong though.  Again.

 

 

Never change Vic. 

 

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

They can't, instead they'll consider bringing in restrictions on everyone. Really think that notion needs resisting; we've given up too much already by way of civil liberties and I for one am not happy with the notion of being held hostage by folks who won't (or can't) get a simple jab. Everyone in western Europe has had the chance to get vaccinated at this stage, on a simple level I'd contend that was up to them and it's their right to decide but what we'll hear now incessantly is how the health services across the continent can't cope.

 

As ever the actions and consequences aren't lining up neatly and the behaviour of a selfish but significant minority are impacting us all. Perhaps the next civil liberty that should be thrown on the bonfire IS the right to refuse a vaccine?

 

 

 

You're right.  It's a reality that a minority can and seems to be having a detrimental effect on everyone.  Everyone will benefit from individuals making a contribution.  It's not unreasonable to finally see that all of our liberties stand a better chance of being protected and returned by forcing the minority to make their contribution.  If it appears to be draconian then so what?  There's no moral case for a majority incurring more restrictions of liberties in order to preserve a misplaced notion of liberty for the minority,  who clearly don't give **** #1 about others' liberties.  Enough is enough.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Never change Vic. 

 

 

Do change Dazo.  You add very little apart from unneccessary conflict.  Try having a grown-up's conversation,  at least some of the time.

 

Good lad.  

[Taffin]

For context, England is on 1.5 and UK 1.6.

 

Unless there's significant change, there's nothing to worry about. More restrictions simply are not needed, and England has proven zero restrictions are needed.

 

I'd say it's being proven we can't molly coddle our way out of this. If Austria fancy it, let them crack on. 

 

[Taffin]

21 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

You're right.  It's a reality that a minority can and seems to be having a detrimental effect on everyone.  Everyone will benefit from individuals making a contribution.  It's not unreasonable to finally see that all of our liberties stand a better chance of being protected and returned by forcing the minority to make their contribution.  If it appears to be draconian then so what?  There's no moral case for a majority incurring more restrictions of liberties in order to preserve a misplaced notion of liberty for the minority,  who clearly don't give **** #1 about others' liberties.  Enough is enough.

 

 

That was as true last year as it was now. It was widely condemned as a viewpoint then though. Not the right people's misplaced notion of liberty?

 

Edit: I'd argue that if you're reliant on others to provide you liberty that you don't really have it. But that's maybe a philosophical debate for another day

Edited November 12, 2021 by Taffin

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

For context, England is on 1.5 and UK 1.6.

 

Unless there's significant change, there's nothing to worry about. More restrictions simply are not needed, and England has proven zero restrictions are needed.

 

I'd say it's being proven we can't molly coddle our way out of this. If Austria fancy it, let them crack on. 

 

 

Unless the snp change their narrative mollycoddling will be here for a while yet. Why the **** they are consistently talking about restrictions is beyond me. There isn’t a person left on the planet that isn’t aware of what’s going on and what we have been living through for the past 18 months. I’ve said it before the constant briefings about case numbers and warnings about restrictions feed fear, are a waste of time and should be kept in house. Joe public has no need for these things and we need to actually start living with this thing. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

That was as true last year as it was now. It was widely condemned as a viewpoint then though. Not the right people's misplaced notion of liberty?

 

Edit: I'd argue that if you're reliant on others to provide you liberty that you don't really have it. But that's maybe a philosophical debate for another day

👍👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 

Unless the snp change their narrative mollycoddling will be here for a while yet. Why the **** they are consistently talking about restrictions is beyond me. There isn’t a person left on the planet that isn’t aware of what’s going on and what we have been living through for the past 18 months. I’ve said it before the constant briefings about case numbers and warnings about restrictions feed fear, are a waste of time and should be kept in house. Joe public has no need for these things and we need to actually start living with this thing. 

👍👍

[Enzo Chiefo]

22 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

You're right.  It's a reality that a minority can and seems to be having a detrimental effect on everyone.  Everyone will benefit from individuals making a contribution.  It's not unreasonable to finally see that all of our liberties stand a better chance of being protected and returned by forcing the minority to make their contribution.  If it appears to be draconian then so what?  There's no moral case for a majority incurring more restrictions of liberties in order to preserve a misplaced notion of liberty for the minority,  who clearly don't give **** #1 about others' liberties.  Enough is enough.

Yes, couldn't agree more. Never thought I'd say that😄.

The idea that the majority of people who have been jabbed should suffer restrictions, simply to prevent stigmatising those selfish individuals who haven't,  is as lop-sided as it is immoral.

Fair enough, we won't force you to have the jab but, if you don't,  you won't be able to fly, go to a nightclub, restaurant etc nor work in the front line of the NHS. That's the deal.

Currently,  if you have certain medical conditions you can't drive a car, without a PSV you can't drive a bus and without pilot's license you can't fly a plane. People with physical disabilities may not be accepted into the Fire Brigade.

Restricting non-vaccinated people, with a provision for medical exemptions, is simply an extension of what happens on a daily basis in many walks of life.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

That was as true last year as it was now. It was widely condemned as a viewpoint then though. Not the right people's misplaced notion of liberty?

 

Preserving one person's liberty when it's impinging on 10 other peoples' liberty is morally questionable,  at best.  Are the liberties of the minority more important?  Are the liberties of the majority more important?  Are they equally as important?  Can anyone ever answer that?

 

Like it or not,  clearly some people don't,  we live in a society.  A society requires quite a lot of co-operative behaviours,  choices,  responsibilities.  Society itself puts limits on absolute liberty,  by it's very nature.  We have no choice but to co-operate with others.  

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, couldn't agree more. Never thought I'd say that😄.

The idea that the majority of people who have been jabbed should suffer restrictions, simply to prevent stigmatising those selfish individuals who haven't,  is as lop-sided as it is immoral.

Fair enough, we won't force you to have the jab but, if you don't,  you won't be able to fly, go to a nightclub, restaurant etc nor work in the front line of the NHS. That's the deal.

Currently,  if you have certain medical conditions you can't drive a car, without a PSV you can't drive a bus and without pilot's license you can't fly a plane. People with physical disabilities may not be accepted into the Fire Brigade.

Restricting non-vaccinated people, with a provision for medical exemptions, is simply an extension of what happens on a daily basis in many walks of life.

 

👍

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Preserving one person's liberty when it's impinging on 10 other peoples' liberty is morally questionable,  at best.  Are the liberties of the minority more important?  Are the liberties of the majority more important?  Are they equally as important?  Can anyone ever answer that?

 

Nobody can answer it definitively, it's all just opinion really. For me, it's true that the liberties of all individuals are equally as important, but that the majority is the most important. But that's just my opinion.

 

9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Like it or not,  clearly some people don't,  we live in a society.  A society requires quite a lot of co-operative behaviours,  choices,  responsibilities.  Society itself puts limits on absolute liberty,  by it's very nature.  We have no choice but to co-operate with others.  

 

Of course, but for me that's not liberty, it's something else. Something similar admittedly, and the best we can get admittedly.

 

Anyway, deep discussion for a Friday so I'll bow out at that. Enjoy your weekend 👍

 

14 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, couldn't agree more. Never thought I'd say that😄.

The idea that the majority of people who have been jabbed should suffer restrictions, simply to prevent stigmatising those selfish individuals who haven't,  is as lop-sided as it is immoral.

Fair enough, we won't force you to have the jab but, if you don't,  you won't be able to fly, go to a nightclub, restaurant etc nor work in the front line of the NHS. That's the deal.

Currently,  if you have certain medical conditions you can't drive a car, without a PSV you can't drive a bus and without pilot's license you can't fly a plane. People with physical disabilities may not be accepted into the Fire Brigade.

Restricting non-vaccinated people, with a provision for medical exemptions, is simply an extension of what happens on a daily basis in many walks of life.

 

Is that not a bit arse about it though, the vaccinations and restrictions are in existence entirely for the benefit of the minority(?). You can't surely argue for a majority to do something to benefit a minority, and then turn around and say the majority is most important. If the liberty of the majority was most important we'd never have had lockdowns, restrictions or covid vaccines in the first place...

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Nobody can answer it definitively, it's all just opinion really. For me, it's true that the liberties of all individuals are equally as important, but that the majority is the most important. But that's just my opinion.

 

 

Of course, but for me that's not liberty, it's something else. Something similar admittedly, and the best we can get admittedly.

 

Anyway, deep discussion for a Friday so I'll bow out at that. Enjoy your weekend 👍

 

 

Is that not a bit arse about it though, the vaccinations and restrictions are in existence entirely for the benefit of the minority(?). You can't surely argue for a majority to do something to benefit a minority, and then turn around and say the majority is most important. If the liberty of the majority was most important we'd never have had lockdowns, restrictions or covid vaccines in the first place...

Exactly my thinking . The Vast majority suffered most from grim lockdowns to protect the minority ! 

[Enzo Chiefo]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Nobody can answer it definitively, it's all just opinion really. For me, it's true that the liberties of all individuals are equally as important, but that the majority is the most important. But that's just my opinion.

 

 

Of course, but for me that's not liberty, it's something else. Something similar admittedly, and the best we can get admittedly.

 

Anyway, deep discussion for a Friday so I'll bow out at that. Enjoy your weekend 👍

 

 

Is that not a bit arse about it though, the vaccinations and restrictions are in existence entirely for the benefit of the minority(?). You can't surely argue for a majority to do something to benefit a minority, and then turn around and say the majority is most important. If the liberty of the majority was most important we'd never have had lockdowns, restrictions or covid vaccines in the first place...

Yes, I accept your point and, as you know, I am not a fan of lockdowns. 

The big difference now, compared to last year, is that the minority have a choice.

A safe, proven method of avoiding serious illness while protecting other, more vulnerable people at the same time.

If the minority choose NOT ro take up that option,  then they have to accept there are consequences. 

If you can't be arsed filling out a Passport application then you won't get to travel abroad.  Life is full of requirements that you have to fulfil to enable you to do something else.

[Victorian]

17 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Nobody can answer it definitively, it's all just opinion really. For me, it's true that the liberties of all individuals are equally as important, but that the majority is the most important. But that's just my opinion.

 

 

Of course, but for me that's not liberty, it's something else. Something similar admittedly, and the best we can get admittedly.

 

Anyway, deep discussion for a Friday so I'll bow out at that. Enjoy your weekend 👍

 

 

Is that not a bit arse about it though, the vaccinations and restrictions are in existence entirely for the benefit of the minority(?). You can't surely argue for a majority to do something to benefit a minority, and then turn around and say the majority is most important. If the liberty of the majority was most important we'd never have had lockdowns, restrictions or covid vaccines in the first place...

 

👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, I accept your point and, as you know, I am not a fan of lockdowns. 

The big difference now, compared to last year, is that the minority have a choice.

A safe, proven method of avoiding serious illness while protecting other, more vulnerable people at the same time.

If the minority choose NOT ro take up that option,  then they have to accept there are consequences. 

If you can't be arsed filling out a Passport application then you won't get to travel abroad.  Life is full of requirements that you have to fulfil to enable you to do something else.

I think having a untried and untested vaccine ( as in rigorous testing fir years ) is hardly the same as filling in a  passport form ! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

14 minutes ago, jonesy said:

I thought we were protecting the NHS?

 

I'm confused. Was it auld Doris next door or was it the bloated, not-fit-for-C21 NHS that we were staying at home, keeping away from our lonely relatives and doing 30 minutes of HIIT with Russell Brand's twin for?

Oh yes that’s right we didn’t want to “overwhelm” it . The same NHS which is overwhelmed every single year ! The goal posts have been changed that much really . I’m glad Doris survived the first two lockdowns only to die of old age last week at 97 

[Alex Kintner]

51 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, couldn't agree more. Never thought I'd say that😄.

The idea that the majority of people who have been jabbed should suffer restrictions, simply to prevent stigmatising those selfish individuals who haven't,  is as lop-sided as it is immoral.

Fair enough, we won't force you to have the jab but, if you don't,  you won't be able to fly, go to a nightclub, restaurant etc nor work in the front line of the NHS. That's the deal.

Currently,  if you have certain medical conditions you can't drive a car, without a PSV you can't drive a bus and without pilot's license you can't fly a plane. People with physical disabilities may not be accepted into the Fire Brigade.

Restricting non-vaccinated people, with a provision for medical exemptions, is simply an extension of what happens on a daily basis in many walks of life.

And even more remarkably I find myself totally agreeing with your post too. Strange days!

 

34 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Nobody can answer it definitively, it's all just opinion really. For me, it's true that the liberties of all individuals are equally as important, but that the majority is the most important. But that's just my opinion.

 

 

Of course, but for me that's not liberty, it's something else. Something similar admittedly, and the best we can get admittedly.

 

Anyway, deep discussion for a Friday so I'll bow out at that. Enjoy your weekend 👍

 

 

Is that not a bit arse about it though, the vaccinations and restrictions are in existence entirely for the benefit of the minority(?). You can't surely argue for a majority to do something to benefit a minority, and then turn around and say the majority is most important. If the liberty of the majority was most important we'd never have had lockdowns, restrictions or covid vaccines in the first place...

The purpose of the vaccines isn’t to protect the minority though. It’s to protect yourself first and foremost.  I’ve had Covid and was pretty ill. Had I not had the vaccine antibodies I don’t doubt ai would have ended up in hospital.

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I think having a untried and untested vaccine ( as in rigorous testing fir years ) is hardly the same as filling in a  passport form ! 

Millions and millions of people have had the vaccine now, James. 

After a year, I think we can say with certainty that it's safe. I don't think it's justifiable for people to hide behind that excuse for not being jabbed.

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I think having a untried and untested vaccine ( as in rigorous testing fir years ) is hardly the same as filling in a  passport form ! 

It’s had the same level of testing, just done at a much faster rate due to the huge amount of funding thrown at it.

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

And even more remarkably I find myself totally agreeing with your post too. Strange days!

 

The purpose of the vaccines isn’t to protect the minority though. It’s to protect yourself first and foremost.  I’ve had Covid and was pretty ill. Had I not had the vaccine antibodies I don’t doubt ai would have ended up in hospital.

 

What are they being protected from?

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

And even more remarkably I find myself totally agreeing with your post too. Strange days!

 

The purpose of the vaccines isn’t to protect the minority though. It’s to protect yourself first and foremost.  I’ve had Covid and was pretty ill. Had I not had the vaccine antibodies I don’t doubt ai would have ended up in hospital.

Yes, sure is, Alex.👍. I'm not sure it'll catch on though.😄

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Millions and millions of people have had the vaccine now, James. 

After a year, I think we can say with certainty that it's safe. I don't think it's justifiable for people to hide behind that excuse for not being jabbed.

 

Glad to agree on this too.  There's been something like a couple of billion jabs done.  Possibly 3 billion.  

 

Fairly well tested then.

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Glad to agree on this too.  There's been something like a couple of billion jabs done.  Possibly 3 billion.  

 

Fairly well tested then.

👍

[Nucky Thompson]

15 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Glad to agree on this too.  There's been something like a couple of billion jabs done.  Possibly 3 billion.  

 

Fairly well tested then.

Aye, but, but, your head's going to fall off 10 years down the line 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Nucky Thompson

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Aye, but, but, your head's going to fall off 10 years down the line 

 

Mine was going to anyway.  I'll be happier knowing that I'm not alone.

[Alex Kintner]

21 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What are they being protected from?

 

Not sure I follow. I’m saying the primary purpose of everyone getting the vaccine is to protect themselves. The secondary purpose is to protect others, including the vulnerable. Even if I personally had doubts about the vaccine I’d still get it to protect my wife, children and parents.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, couldn't agree more. Never thought I'd say that😄.

The idea that the majority of people who have been jabbed should suffer restrictions, simply to prevent stigmatising those selfish individuals who haven't,  is as lop-sided as it is immoral.

Fair enough, we won't force you to have the jab but, if you don't,  you won't be able to fly, go to a nightclub, restaurant etc nor work in the front line of the NHS. That's the deal.

Currently,  if you have certain medical conditions you can't drive a car, without a PSV you can't drive a bus and without pilot's license you can't fly a plane. People with physical disabilities may not be accepted into the Fire Brigade.

Restricting non-vaccinated people, with a provision for medical exemptions, is simply an extension of what happens on a daily basis in many walks of life.

OK, who's hacked Enzo's account as I agree with this post

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 minutes ago, XB52 said:

OK, who's hacked Enzo's account as I agree with this post

😂. What a strange day!, Alex, Vic and now yourself, XB.

[Victorian]

AZ begin commercial contracts for further supplies of their digital surveillance juice.  Some "modest" for-profit contracts and ongoing not-for-profit for poorer countries.