Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[scott herbertson]

3 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

 

Makes no sense really.

 

In going to Weston Super Mare tomorrow to experience a quintessential English summer time activity. It'll be utterly mobbed with far more cases than France yet come Sunday I can go wherever I want in the UK.

 

 

 

Didn't put you down as someone who would enjoy that, but it takes all types I guess

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, some have, James.

And this nonsense about a great "experiment" in opening up that "the world is watching". We're not doing anything that hasn't been done around the world already. 

Spanish pubs have been open late for months, nightclubs have also been opened across various European countries and mask wearing has been mandated and then voluntary across many countries,  including the States.

We're simply taking the next step that having 90% of our adult population allows, nay, demands.

Yes the narrative coming from end mass media is scary and as per usual fear mongering nonsense . Painting the English opening up as some kind of completely irresponsible strategy without any science based support behind it . As you rightly say many countries have opened up and have been fine, in particular many states in the USA are back to complete normality but due to censorship from our main media ( television ) we hardly hear anything about it . Now that’s a worry ? Why ? 

[Back to 2005]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes the narrative coming from end mass media is scary and as per usual fear mongering nonsense . Painting the English opening up as some kind of completely irresponsible strategy without any science based support behind it . As you rightly say many countries have opened up and have been fine, in particular many states in the USA are back to complete normality but due to censorship from our main media ( television ) we hardly hear anything about it . Now that’s a worry ? Why ? 

This is the question that nobody can answer and the one that gives me the most concern.

What is happening within the MSM? Who is controlling it and what is the end game?

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

32 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

This is the question that nobody can answer and the one that gives me the most concern.

What is happening within the MSM? Who is controlling it and what is the end game?

 

👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

32 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

This is the question that nobody can answer and the one that gives me the most concern.

What is happening within the MSM? Who is controlling it and what is the end game?

 

👍

[Beni]

39 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes the narrative coming from end mass media is scary and as per usual fear mongering nonsense . Painting the English opening up as some kind of completely irresponsible strategy without any science based support behind it . As you rightly say many countries have opened up and have been fine, in particular many states in the USA are back to complete normality but due to censorship from our main media ( television ) we hardly hear anything about it . Now that’s a worry ? Why ? 

 

The USA have about 60% of adults fully vaccinated, so not far behind the UK, and have pretty low levels of infection at the moment with the Delta variant not taken off to the same extent yet, but it is rising.

Perhaps that's why you've not heard much about it? 🤔

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/14/health/delta-variant-uk-usa.html

[Beni]

42 minutes ago, Back to 2005 said:

This is the question that nobody can answer and the one that gives me the most concern.

What is happening within the MSM? Who is controlling it and what is the end game?

 

 

Gates and Soros m9

[Taffin]

6 hours ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Didn't put you down as someone who would enjoy that, but it takes all types I guess

 

 

 

I've never been before, I don't hold high hopes, but it's to hit 28 degrees so thought I'd give it a go.

 

And contrary to my previous post, if it's shoulder to shoulder I'll be moving to somewhere else quieter in the area 👍

[The Mighty Thor]

This thread is rapidly descending into a partridge-esque big government/msm conspiracy theory tug fest. 

 

But wur freedums likesy

Edited July 17, 2021 by The Mighty Thor

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 hours ago, Back to 2005 said:

This is the question that nobody can answer and the one that gives me the most concern.

What is happening within the MSM? Who is controlling it and what is the end game?

 

The end game.

We’re all going to die.

[The Real Maroonblood]

24 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

This thread is rapidly descending into a partridge-esque big government/msm conspiracy theory tug fest. 

 

But wur freedums likesy

You’ve really got laugh at them.

[Costanza]

11 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I don’t think there would be a scientific view that does agree from an epidemiological perspective but this far into the pandemic both UK and Scottish governments are factoring in other things as well, both from a health perspective (mental health) but also economy and potentially educational (get the wave down now so that it is on the way down when schools go back)

 

A number of other counties are doing the same so I don’t think we are a total outlier.  US opened up months ago with cases rates not dissimilar.  
 

Personally I think it was inconceivable that given vaccination numbers we could have been kept under tight restrictions only to open up in Autumn.  Deaths today for example were only circa 3% of total daily deaths and not all them are ‘from’ Covid.  

It doesn't fill me with confidence that there doesn't appear to be a coherent scientific counter to the UK's approach.
A strategy choosing mass infection in the young over vaccination to get to herd immunity I don't see advocated by any body of scientists.

Chris Whitty in a seminar warned that covid hospitalisations could get "scary" and that will place a burden on the health service with hospitals no doubt again cancelling  surgeries etc. and causing a further backlog in care, given that Covid patients tend to stay longer than most in hospital.
You are correct to mention the current number of deaths so have to hope the increase in covid hospitalisations doesn't impact that significantly.
The Government has said we will likely reach in weeks, 100k cases per day. Therefore there will be an economic impact of that with self isolation and a proportion of those infected developing long covid, which will impact long term care and economic output.


There is a huge economic case for opening now but it just seems to me, that's all it is, a short term economic decision that poses significant risk on the health of the population and probably means we'll likely reintroduce restrictions again.

It's easy to get into an echo chamber of opinion and I was hoping that there would be some good rebuttal of the UK Government's critics out there i.e. not strawman nonsense about scaremongering and agendas that we've seen on this thread elsewhere.
Anyway,  guess we'll find out soon enough on the predictions after "Freedom Day".

[Spellczech]

Snippet that is not in the news - Of the 11 people in ICU in the Royal yesterday, only 1 is double-vaccinated. They are of all ages, some are single vaccinated. Only one is intubated.

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, Costanza said:

It doesn't fill me with confidence that there doesn't appear to be a coherent scientific counter to the UK's approach.
A strategy choosing mass infection in the young over vaccination to get to herd immunity I don't see advocated by any body of scientists.

Chris Whitty in a seminar warned that covid hospitalisations could get "scary" and that will place a burden on the health service with hospitals no doubt again cancelling  surgeries etc. and causing a further backlog in care, given that Covid patients tend to stay longer than most in hospital.
You are correct to mention the current number of deaths so have to hope the increase in covid hospitalisations doesn't impact that significantly.
The Government has said we will likely reach in weeks, 100k cases per day. Therefore there will be an economic impact of that with self isolation and a proportion of those infected developing long covid, which will impact long term care and economic output.


There is a huge economic case for opening now but it just seems to me, that's all it is, a short term economic decision that poses significant risk on the health of the population and probably means we'll likely reintroduce restrictions again.

It's easy to get into an echo chamber of opinion and I was hoping that there would be some good rebuttal of the UK Government's critics out there i.e. not strawman nonsense about scaremongering and agendas that we've seen on this thread elsewhere.
Anyway,  guess we'll find out soon enough on the predictions after "Freedom Day".

You don't get herd immunity if it is possible to get re-infected - there is no herd immunity for the flu. This is the area where there appears to be a dearth of information - by now we should have some numbers on people having Covid twice but we hear nothing of this. We only hear talk of possible boosters to the vaccine; of Pfizer generating more anitbodies (My wife had Pfizer and had antibody test, as did her mother who had Covid. A result over 1 means you have antibodies. Wife was 13, 3 months after vaccine, mother-in-law was 9 one month after having Covid)

[scott herbertson]

26 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

You don't get herd immunity if it is possible to get re-infected - there is no herd immunity for the flu. This is the area where there appears to be a dearth of information - by now we should have some numbers on people having Covid twice but we hear nothing of this. We only hear talk of possible boosters to the vaccine; of Pfizer generating more anitbodies (My wife had Pfizer and had antibody test, as did her mother who had Covid. A result over 1 means you have antibodies. Wife was 13, 3 months after vaccine, mother-in-law was 9 one month after having Covid)

 

 

 

Good point re the lack of information on this. I suspect if it was really good news, we would have heard more.

 

 

So boosters here we come

[Jambo-Jimbo]

12 hours ago, theshed said:

 

As bad as it sounds I’ve just been reading the last time we hit the 50k mark the death rate that day was 1,139 today it was 49 

 

12 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

There was a really good Twitter post from a Dr in the NHS basically showing the same. Last time the cases were this high was January or something and he was then comparing admittance to hospital, those in hospital and deaths between now and then. And when I say comparing, there was no comparison. It was night and day between them

 

It has been 5 weeks since the Scottish Borders recorded our last death related to Covid and over the same period there has been a large number of cases (as can be seen from Reds daily charts), currently there are only 6 people with Covid-19 in the Borders General Hospital.

Proof positive if needed, that the vaccines are working.

https://www.peeblesshirenews.com/news/19441901.coronavirus-no-new-borders-deaths-fifth-consecutive-week/

 

P.S. 6 people in hospital, but none in ICU.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Jambo-Jimbo

[Victorian]

It depends how you interpret the phrase herd immunity.  Is it a tangible threshold where,  when reached,  the virus disappears completely and can't return?  Obviously not.  Is it more of a rough estimate of a figure where,  when reached,  the overall level of protection against acute illness and maximum performance of transmission suppression is achieved?  More so imo.

 

I think there is a tacit acceptance of tolerated infection going on.  The hard to reach corners of the population wont take a vaccine.  Is it better overall that these people are 'reached' via natural infection?  That's a very technical question for virologists and epidemiologists.  

[Spellczech]

11 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I find myself agreeing with this. Unfortunately, reinfiection or reinfection with another strain seem possible. 
 

A booster programme has been, announced already starting in September alongside the flu prog. The second iteration of vaccines are being tested to tackle SA variant and no doubt people in white coats are busy re-engineering to protect against the Delta and other variants. 

 

Our scientists and govts aren’t talking about a strategy of herd immunity they are talking about living with it in a similar manner to flu. You accept a level of damage. 

Most countries are deciding to live this thing. They may be doing it slightly different manner but I don’t hear many places talking about herd immunity and eradication. Especially since the disease will circulate amongst vaccinated people. 
 

Returning to ‘normal’ comes with consequences but so does any aspect of living life. This thing is pretty much going to work it’s way through the entire U.K. population at some point, I would suggest. Thankfully the vast majority will not be bothered with it. 
 

Agreed. I would condemn whoever was fool enough to first talk about herd immunity for a new virus being a possibility. If they were  on SAGE then they should not be on SAGE! At the time it was first mooted, nobody knew if coronavirus was similar to measles or the flu, but the probability was that being a coronavirus it would mutate to survive like the flu. Someone effed up big time by ever mentioning herd immunity as a strategy!

[Konrad von Carstein]

13 hours ago, theshed said:

 

As bad as it sounds I’ve just been reading the last time we hit the 50k mark the death rate that day was 1,139 today it was 49 

 

12 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

There was a really good Twitter post from a Dr in the NHS basically showing the same. Last time the cases were this high was January or something and he was then comparing admittance to hospital, those in hospital and deaths between now and then. And when I say comparing, there was no comparison. It was night and day between them

That is both alarming (case rates) and comforting (death rates) hopefully we are on the road to this being a managable infection.

 

@Taffin Do you have the @ for that Dr?

[Spellczech]

33 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

 

Good point re the lack of information on this. I suspect if it was really good news, we would have heard more.

 

 

So boosters here we come

I should also mention that my in-laws were both hospitalised for Covid due to low blood oxygenation. My father-in-law now has long Covid though his wife doesn't. He was re-admitted for a further 3 weeks but is out again now.

[scott herbertson]

2 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I should also mention that my in-laws were both hospitalised for Covid due to low blood oxygenation. My father-in-law now has long Covid though his wife doesn't. He was re-admitted for a further 3 weeks but is out again now.

 

 

Sorry to hear that - hope his symptoms are not too bad and are short-lived, if that's not a contradiction in terms

[Victorian]

Guy on the news raised an interesting point.  The interplay,  relationships and implications of competing or potentially competing variants (Delta dominant here and almost zero Beta,  Beta more prevalent in France for example),  as well as the vaccines more commonly employed in different locations (AZ here and Pfizer in France).

 

We always here about new variants being more transmissible.  We also hear some info about how variants become dominant.  I wonder what implications arise out of different scenarios.  One variant remaining dominant with no competition.  Two or more of the commonly described variants competing for dominance.  Add in the comparative performances of vaccine types against variants.  It all seems incredibly complex.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Victorian

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

Guy on the news raised an interesting point.  The interplay,  relationships and implications of competing or potentially competing variants (Delta dominant here and almost zero Beta,  Beta more prevalent in France for example),  as well as the vaccines more commonly employed in different locations (AZ here and Pfizer in France).

 

We always here about new variants being more transmissible.  We also hear some info about how variants become dominant.  I wonder what implications arise out of different scenarios.  One variant remaining dominant with no competion.  Two or more of the commonly described variants competing for dominance.  Add in the comparative performances of vaccine types against variants.  It all seems incredibly complex.

 

“It all seems incredibly complex”

 

good to see this has eventually sunk in - about 500 pages back your posts were choc-full of absolutes like do A and B will happen etc

 

by a long stretch not the only one of course

 

 

[Victorian]

Just now, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

“It all seems incredibly complex”

 

good to see this has eventually sunk in - about 500 pages back your posts were choc-full of absolutes like do A and B will happen etc

 

by a long stretch not the only one of course

 

 

 

Away and have a run to yourself. 

 

It's only with time and greater understanding that peoples' views evolve.  I'm not afraid of being wrong about something.  Could not give a monkeys.  

[Taffin]

30 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

That is both alarming (case rates) and comforting (death rates) hopefully we are on the road to this being a managable infection.

 

@Taffin Do you have the @ for that Dr?

 

I don't unfortunately, it was via LinkedIn that I saw it as I'm not on Twitter. If I find it again I'll try and get the Twitter link for it 👍

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

26 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Agreed. I would condemn whoever was fool enough to first talk about herd immunity for a new virus being a possibility. If they were  on SAGE then they should not be on SAGE! At the time it was first mooted, nobody knew if coronavirus was similar to measles or the flu, but the probability was that being a coronavirus it would mutate to survive like the flu. Someone effed up big time by ever mentioning herd immunity as a strategy!

 

the term ‘“herd immunity” as described by another poster is not necessarily what many interpret it to be - apparently it first appears on about page 2 of first year student resources on tackling infectious diseases so no surprise it’s been mentioned (a lot) - that practice run the country did a few years ago (but apparently actually did things differently in reality) would be interesting if herd immunity got a mention then

 

you mention the probability that “ ...... like the flu” - people qualified or otherwise have been getting lambasted for the best part of two years for saying it could be “like the flu” - not in all aspects of course but people seem to have heard “the flu” and nothing beyond that and gone off on one

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Away and have a run to yourself. 

 

It's only with time and greater understanding that peoples' views evolve.  I'm not afraid of being wrong about something.  Could not give a monkeys.  

 

no offence mate -for what it’s worth despite being on the other side of the debate from you in many cases I think you’ve contributed plenty good stuff whether I agreed with it or not and probably everyone has been wrong at some point including the highly qualified scientists

 

as you say things evolve and views evolve - the learning point is the recognition of the possibility of being ‘wrong’ especially with something so “incredibly complex”

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

The end game.

We’re all going to die.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Snippet that is not in the news - Of the 11 people in ICU in the Royal yesterday, only 1 is double-vaccinated. They are of all ages, some are single vaccinated. Only one is intubated.

What’s intubated ? 

[Beni]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Guy on the news raised an interesting point.  The interplay,  relationships and implications of competing or potentially competing variants (Delta dominant here and almost zero Beta,  Beta more prevalent in France for example),  as well as the vaccines more commonly employed in different locations (AZ here and Pfizer in France).

 

We always here about new variants being more transmissible.  We also hear some info about how variants become dominant.  I wonder what implications arise out of different scenarios.  One variant remaining dominant with no competition.  Two or more of the commonly described variants competing for dominance.  Add in the comparative performances of vaccine types against variants.  It all seems incredibly complex.

 

Are the variants actually competing with each other in any real sense?

Even with the figures yesterday pointing to around 1 in 100 people carrying the virus, and the vast majority of those being Delta, it's a very small proportion of the population. It's not like each new victim is simultaneously inflected with all the variants and this is followed by a battle royale to see which is dominant.

It looks more like previous variants have been suppressed by the combination of behaviour, vaccines and summer, whereas so far this hasn't been achieved with Delta because it's more transmissible.

 

[Victorian]

13 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

no offence mate -for what it’s worth despite being on the other side of the debate from you in many cases I think you’ve contributed plenty good stuff whether I agreed with it or not and probably everyone has been wrong at some point including the highly qualified scientists

 

as you say things evolve and views evolve - the learning point is the recognition of the possibility of being ‘wrong’ especially with something so “incredibly complex”

 

Agreed.  Some have learned to be less absolutist.  Some have not.  The vast opportunities to gain greater understanding has actually led to some views becoming more hardened,  entrenched,  etc.

 

I'm much less inclined now to argue about which way of thinking is right and wrong.  My way is to compartmentalise things.  The slight possibilities of future hardships are filed away in a wee lever arch file in my mind.  While times are better I'm getting on with it.  Other people are doing things their way.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Are the variants actually competing with each other in any real sense?

Even with the figures yesterday pointing to around 1 in 100 people carrying the virus, and the vast majority of those being Delta, it's a very small proportion of the population. It's not like each new victim is simultaneously inflected with all the variants and this is followed by a battle royale to see which is dominant.

It looks more like previous variants have been suppressed by the combination of behaviour, vaccines and summer, whereas so far this hasn't been achieved with Delta because it's more transmissible.

 

 

It seems to me to a bit beyond a good understanding for a layman.  Very complicated stuff.  You don't tend to get much info like this in the news.  Maybe simply because it's too competence specific.

[DETTY29]

19 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

What’s intubated ? 

Inserted with tube.

 

 

[Spellczech]

30 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

the term ‘“herd immunity” as described by another poster is not necessarily what many interpret it to be - apparently it first appears on about page 2 of first year student resources on tackling infectious diseases so no surprise it’s been mentioned (a lot) - that practice run the country did a few years ago (but apparently actually did things differently in reality) would be interesting if herd immunity got a mention then

 

you mention the probability that “ ...... like the flu” - people qualified or otherwise have been getting lambasted for the best part of two years for saying it could be “like the flu” - not in all aspects of course but people seem to have heard “the flu” and nothing beyond that and gone off on one

Haha Very true. My very first post on Coronavirus on here postulated that it was "like the flu" - got a bit of a kicking for it, which was right TBF as the difference is that many people which Covid was killing would've survived the flu, as it seems to get some younger obese, asmathic and diabetic people too

 

The problem with herd immunity is that appears to have been Plan A of Boris's Govt. Cummings has since confirmed that Boris is a lazy man and a lazy leader, so he'd obviously listen to the adviser who says "nothing to worry about here. It is just like the flu. We'll get herd immunity after it kills off some of the weaker people" and out he goes to shake hands until he caught it!!!

 

 

[redjambo]

19 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Are the variants actually competing with each other in any real sense?

Even with the figures yesterday pointing to around 1 in 100 people carrying the virus, and the vast majority of those being Delta, it's a very small proportion of the population. It's not like each new victim is simultaneously inflected with all the variants and this is followed by a battle royale to see which is dominant.

It looks more like previous variants have been suppressed by the combination of behaviour, vaccines and summer, whereas so far this hasn't been achieved with Delta because it's more transmissible.

 

 

From a particularly layman's point of view, as far as I know if you are infected with one variant then another variant doesn't get a look in, unless it has something extra that your recently upgraded immune system is unprepared for and unable to combat. So for the different variants, assuming they are all reasonably similar in how they infect folk, it's a question of the pool of available victims. If one variant takes all the available prey, it snuffs out the other's ability to do so. So, in a way they are indeed competing with each other, but not from any "Hey, feck you, Delta! I'm Beta!" conscious approach, but simply from how quickly and effectively they can infect the pool of possible victims open to them. The variant that does this best gets the upper hand.

[Spellczech]

1 hour ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Sorry to hear that - hope his symptoms are not too bad and are short-lived, if that's not a contradiction in terms

He's ok, his only problem is scarring of the lungs causes some breathlessness particularly in the mornings. He doesn't have the aches etc that other people suffer from as far as I know. He's 76 and was an army air force Lieutenant General (rank below full general) so is a tough little guy.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Spellczech

[Nookie Bear]

13 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Haha Very true. My very first post on Coronavirus on here postulated that it was "like the flu" - got a bit of a kicking for it, which was right TBF as the difference is that many people which Covid was killing would've survived the flu, as it seems to get some younger obese, asmathic and diabetic people too

 

The problem with herd immunity is that appears to have been Plan A of Boris's Govt. Cummings has since confirmed that Boris is a lazy man and a lazy leader, so he'd obviously listen to the adviser who says "nothing to worry about here. It is just like the flu. We'll get herd immunity after it kills off some of the weaker people" and out he goes to shake hands until he caught it!!!

 

 

In fairness, I spoke to a couple of very qualified scientists (bacteriologists and virologists) in Mar 2020 and they were downplaying it then. 

[Governor Tarkin]

27 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

48 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

What’s intubated ? 

Inserted with tube.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Listen it’s too early in the morning for that kind of smutty  malarkey 😎 

[Beni]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

From a particularly layman's point of view, as far as I know if you are infected with one variant then another variant doesn't get a look in, unless it has something extra that your recently upgraded immune system is unprepared for and unable to combat. So for the different variants, assuming they are all reasonably similar in how they infect folk, it's a question of the pool of available victims. If one variant takes all the available prey, it snuffs out the other's ability to do so. So, in a way they are indeed competing with each other, but not from any "Hey, feck you, Delta! I'm Beta!" conscious approach, but simply from how quickly and effectively they can infect the pool of possible victims open to them. The variant that does this best gets the upper hand.

 

The fact that infections are rising tells us that we've not run out of susceptible hosts just yet, but the previous variants are all now at low levels not because Delta has infected all their potential hosts (although that will play a small part), but because of the factors which affect their R number they have effectively been suppressed, and this would have happened whether the Delta variant was present or not.

I just feel the talk around the variants competing is needlessly anthropomorphising them.

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

In fairness, I spoke to a couple of very qualified scientists (bacteriologists and virologists) in Mar 2020 and they were downplaying it then. 

In fairness I recall speaking to an old wifey in April 2020 and she said “ son I’ve had a good life , I’m 87 now if it comes for me I’ll accept it , what’s going come for you won’t pass you by” the good news is she is still alive and kicking 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Snippet that is not in the news - Of the 11 people in ICU in the Royal yesterday, only 1 is double-vaccinated. They are of all ages, some are single vaccinated. Only one is intubated.

Context is a wonderful thing, Spellczech. 

The figures are imparted by the Govt, interpreted by the scientists and exaggerated by the MSM , without any context.

How many "cases " are asymptomatic? How long are people staying in hospital now compared to during previous waves? Are the miniscule number of people dying doing so with or "because of" the virus?

Anyone who immediately dismisses the idea that Covid is being used to nudge population behaviour and exercise a degree of control, has either not being paying attention or is extraordinarily naive. 

 

Whether it's climate change, diet or moving to a cashless society, there are more elements to this than simply "keeping people safe". The one-sided MSM narrative is certainly being driven from somewhere. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Context is a wonderful thing, Spellczech. 

The figures are imparted by the Govt, interpreted by the scientists and exaggerated by the MSM , without any context.

How many "cases " are asymptomatic? How long are people staying in hospital now compared to during previous waves? Are the miniscule number of people dying doing so with or "because of" the virus?

Anyone who immediately dismisses the idea that Covid is being used to nudge population behaviour and exercise a degree of control, has either not being paying attention or is extraordinarily naive. 

 

Whether it's climate change, diet or moving to a cashless society, there are more elements to this than simply "keeping people safe". The one-sided MSM narrative is certainly being driven from somewhere. 

Very true Enzo . I made a comment about a news item on telly last night . A woman still suffering from long covid . She  is 52 and very obese . As you say context is everything ! 

[Enzo Chiefo]

13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

In fairness I recall speaking to an old wifey in April 2020 and she said “ son I’ve had a good life , I’m 87 now if it comes for me I’ll accept it , what’s going come for you won’t pass you by” the good news is she is still alive and kicking 

Good story, James. I think that's quite a common view across the elderly demographic. Glad to hear she's still living life to the full, not just existing.

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

I just feel the talk around the variants competing is needlessly anthropomorphising them.

 

Competition, especially when used scientifically as it is here, is not a solely human attribute by a long chalk.

 

12 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

The fact that infections are rising tells us that we've not run out of susceptible hosts just yet, but the previous variants are all now at low levels not because Delta has infected all their potential hosts (although that will play a small part), but because of the factors which affect their R number they have effectively been suppressed, and this would have happened whether the Delta variant was present or not.

 

A fair point, but I assumed we were talking about e.g. Beta and Delta, two active variants with overlapping pools of potential victims.

[JudyJudyJudy]

39 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Good story, James. I think that's quite a common view across the elderly demographic. Glad to hear she's still living life to the full, not just existing.

Yep . I think there has been a collective brain fog regarding death . Likes it’s somehow avoidable ! 

10 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I see Uber are continuing a no mask no ride policy after 19 July.

Always been mine too 

[Beni]

16 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Competition, especially when used scientifically as it is here, is not a solely human attribute by a long chalk.

 

 

A fair point, but I assumed we were talking about e.g. Beta and Delta, two active variants with overlapping pools of potential victims.

 

Agree with your first point, and confess to being a tad pedantic.

 

Below are the figures for the most recent week I can find(2 weeks ago). Delta is so dominant that the others are almost irrelevant.

My take is that the differences are not explained by competition, but because the previously dominant variants have been effectively suppressed, but Delta's 62% greater transmissibility means it hasn't been yet.

If it had been possible to keep the Delta variant out and a similar reopening pathway had been followed, the pandemic would be all but over by now.

 

 

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

45 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Very true Enzo . I made a comment about a news item on telly last night . A woman still suffering from long covid . She  is 52 and very obese . As you say context is everything ! 

"Long obesity" by the sounds of things 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I just feel the talk around the variants competing is needlessly anthropomorphising them.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

"Long obesity" by the sounds of things