Enzo Chiefo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Just now, scott herbertson said: It's the positivity (highest for ages) and the numbers in hospital - rising fast which are the worries. I agree re deaths but we will see a few more if hospital numbers continue to rise The hospital numbers have been hovering about 120 for quite a while. They seem to jump up on a Mon but there may well be a big drop tomorrow, as has happened in previous weeks. Very low figures though compared to the 2k of Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: It's the positivity (highest for ages) and the numbers in hospital - rising fast which are the worries. I agree re deaths but we will see a few more if hospital numbers continue to rise Hospital numbers rising fast ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said: The hospital numbers have been hovering about 120 for quite a while. They seem to jump up on a Mon but there may well be a big drop tomorrow, as has happened in previous weeks. Very low figures though compared to the 2k of Jan No hospital numbers are published saturday and sunday. Last week between Friday and Monday there was a drop of 4 over the weekend and it rose again by 5 on the Tuesday. This week there was a jump of 30 over the weekend (nearly 25% more people in hospital. I doubt if that will back by much tomorrow I agree they are lower figures but we are looking at a trend upwards developing, which isn't good . We are certainly in a better position with the number of people double vaccinated but this wave does seem to be happening now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Dazo said: Hospital numbers rising fast ? From 128 on Friday to 158 today is fast, in my opinion For the avoidance of doubt I am not arguing for more lockdown measures, just disappointed it is spreading so fast, clearly at least in part due to higher transmission of dominant variant compared to previous ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, scott herbertson said: From 128 on Friday to 158 today is fast, in my opinion For the avoidance of doubt I am not arguing for more lockdown measures, just disappointed it is spreading so fast, clearly at least in part due to higher transmission of dominant variant compared to previous ones. It has risen a bit today but that is a snapshot of a very short period and over the weekend. I have a funny feeling once the day trippers to London come back and get tested the case numbers will rise substantially. Not a major concern though if hospital numbers remain low and steady. Obviously not aimed at you but we really need to start downplaying these case numbers and positivity rates if we truly are going to live with this thing. Daily updates and media headline figures are serving no purpose to the general public imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartleyLegend3 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Happy freedom day everyone.. 👌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Dazo said: It has risen a bit today but that is a snapshot of a very short period and over the weekend. I have a funny feeling once the day trippers to London come back and get tested the case numbers will rise substantially. Not a major concern though if hospital numbers remain low and steady. Obviously not aimed at you but we really need to start downplaying these case numbers and positivity rates if we truly are going to live with this thing. Daily updates and media headline figures are serving no purpose to the general public imo. I can't say I agree - the statistics are very useful. I don't see any harm from knowing if a particular aspect is rising fast. I agree that case numbers in themselves are not very useful but a trend over a period of rising positivity is a good indication of an increase in the R number and there is still a correlation between that and hospitalisations IMO . If we are in a situation where the rate is rising it is surely good for the general public to be aware of that so that they can be more careful in their interactions with each other. We can 'live with the thing' while being cautious about our contacts. I was hoping by now we would be able to live with it, without being so cautious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Hospital numbers will rise. No doubt about that. But the number of people susceptible to ending up in hospital is more limited than before and it is being steadily reduced by vaccinations. This will be a situation limited in time and limited in scale. But there is still a sufficiently large enough population to cause a problem. Vaccinations will reduce it to a more negligible thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Dazo said: It has risen a bit today but that is a snapshot of a very short period and over the weekend. I have a funny feeling once the day trippers to London come back and get tested the case numbers will rise substantially. Not a major concern though if hospital numbers remain low and steady. Obviously not aimed at you but we really need to start downplaying these case numbers and positivity rates if we truly are going to live with this thing. Daily updates and media headline figures are serving no purpose to the general public imo. Agree 100%. We need to wean ourselves off the covid obsession and I include myself in this. Vaccine is here, it works and the at risk groups have been done. “Cases” were always going to rise as restrictions were eased, don’t understand some of the surprise from the media that it’s happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: I can't say I agree - the statistics are very useful. I don't see any harm from knowing if a particular aspect is rising fast. I agree that case numbers in themselves are not very useful but a trend over a period of rising positivity is a good indication of an increase in the R number and there is still a correlation between that and hospitalisations IMO . If we are in a situation where the rate is rising it is surely good for the general public to be aware of that so that they can be more careful in their interactions with each other. We can 'live with the thing' while being cautious about our contacts. I was hoping by now we would be able to live with it, without being so cautious. Fair enough but I completely disagree. It just looks like fear propaganda and control factors. The caution ship sailed the moment freedom day was tangled. We aren’t going back the way so being more cautious is never going to happen. Case number updates these days have zero effect on the majority of joe public and their level of caution. I accept the above is based on hospitalisations being manageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 36 minutes ago, redjambo said: Latest trend stats: 7-day per-100,000 cases Council Area Tier WHO Today Yesterday 19 Jun 18 Jun 17 Jun 16 Jun 15 Jun ... 1 May Scotland 147 138 +9 135 132 135 124 122 ... 22 Dundee City 2 4 301 298 +3 325 326 329 314 308 ... 13 Edinburgh City 2 4 248 227 +21 220 220 218 210 202 ... 27 East Ayrshire 2 4 229 211 +18 210 194 184 157 160 ... 45 East Lothian 1 4 225 216 +9 186 169 173 167 158 ... 5 East Dunbartonshire 2 4 211 200 +11 181 172 176 156 145 ... 51 South Ayrshire 2 4 194 205 -11 228 247 260 253 251 ... 25 West Dunbartonshire 1 4 192 169 +23 141 123 146 144 137 ... 28 East Renfrewshire 2 4 183 170 +13 170 169 191 179 167 ... 24 Glasgow City 2 4 179 167 +12 167 160 168 153 160 ... 33 North Ayrshire 2 4 177 160 +17 149 159 144 136 136 ... 17 Midlothian 2 4 176 176 0 161 156 173 177 180 ... 10 Argyll & Bute 1 / 0 4 168 156 +12 142 115 106 76 50 ... 7 Perth & Kinross 1 4 164 157 +7 153 161 167 149 167 ... 22 North Lanarkshire 2 4 158 153 +5 149 149 147 129 119 ... 40 Renfrewshire 2 3 143 146 -3 154 145 150 132 138 ... 20 Clackmannanshire 2 3 140 147 -7 159 182 206 184 192 ... 14 West Lothian 1 3 134 126 +8 121 116 127 125 126 ... 26 South Lanarkshire 2 3 132 119 +13 118 118 119 104 104 ... 18 Aberdeen City 1 3 130 126 +4 122 110 115 97 84 ... 13 Scottish Borders 1 3 104 89 +15 89 87 88 75 68 ... 6 Falkirk 1 3 90 88 +2 88 75 71 58 50 ... 23 Inverclyde 1 3 89 77 +12 62 60 60 53 46 ... 15 Stirling 2 3 89 80 +9 83 77 81 86 74 ... 11 Fife 1 3 81 72 +9 73 72 78 69 64 ... 32 Angus 1 3 77 79 -2 86 100 114 120 138 ... 7 Aberdeenshire 1 3 64 55 +9 45 38 32 26 24 ... 8 Shetland Islands 0 3 52 31 +21 22 4 0 0 0 ... 0 Dumfries & Galloway 1 2 48 44 +4 34 35 39 38 40 ... 19 Highland 1 / 0 2 28 25 +3 23 20 16 14 12 ... 9 Orkney Islands 0 1 18 18 0 18 4 0 0 0 ... 0 Moray 1 1 15 13 +2 10 10 8 7 10 ... 65 Na h-Eileanan Siar 0 1 4 7 -3 7 7 2 2 7 ... 0 7-day averages Today Yesterday 19 Jun 18 Jun 17 Jun 16 Jun 15 Jun ... 1 May Tests 26590 26190 +400 26298 25990 25891 25518 25602 ... 18484 Cases 1148 1078 +70 1054 1028 1050 967 950 ... 171 Positivity rate % 4.6 4.4 +0.2 4.3 4.3 4.4 4.1 4.0 ... 1.1 Deaths 1.6 1.6 0.0 1.6 1.6 1.3 0.9 0.9 ... 1.3 All Vaccinations 38557 39873 -1316 40928 41876 43056 44139 45082 ... 45346 1st Dose 18538 19043 -505 19127 18939 18644 18473 18228 ... 6677 2nd Dose 20019 20830 -811 21801 22937 24412 25666 26854 ... 38669 Daily data All in hospital 158 149 +9 145 128 140 133 137 ... 65 Non-ICU 144 137 +7 135 116 128 118 120 ... 54 ICU 14 12 +2 10 12 12 15 17 ... 11 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 18 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: No hospital numbers are published saturday and sunday. Last week between Friday and Monday there was a drop of 4 over the weekend and it rose again by 5 on the Tuesday. This week there was a jump of 30 over the weekend (nearly 25% more people in hospital. I doubt if that will back by much tomorrow I agree they are lower figures but we are looking at a trend upwards developing, which isn't good . We are certainly in a better position with the number of people double vaccinated but this wave does seem to be happening now. Yes, fair point, but the FM herself confirmed that people are in hospital for a much shorter time now. Consequently the figures go up and down more. Compared to the last time we had such high cases, hospital numbers are just a fraction of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 I think the Nats are trying to throw Swinney under a bus ! 😂 Trying, and failing miserably, to justify a ban on travel to Manchester but not a ban to Dundee. Apart from two boroughs, more or less the same rates ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, scott herbertson said: Those are not good figures at all Disagree 30 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: I can't say I agree - the statistics are very useful. I don't see any harm from knowing if a particular aspect is rising fast. I agree that case numbers in themselves are not very useful but a trend over a period of rising positivity is a good indication of an increase in the R number and there is still a correlation between that and hospitalisations IMO . If we are in a situation where the rate is rising it is surely good for the general public to be aware of that so that they can be more careful in their interactions with each other. We can 'live with the thing' while being cautious about our contacts. I was hoping by now we would be able to live with it, without being so cautious. Most people are now “ living with this thing “ get on Board with the rest of thd population . 24 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said: Agree 100%. We need to wean ourselves off the covid obsession and I include myself in this. Vaccine is here, it works and the at risk groups have been done. “Cases” were always going to rise as restrictions were eased, don’t understand some of the surprise from the media that it’s happening. The media deliberately fuelling the infection rises yet again . Quell surprise . My friend who felt unwell at beginning of last week took a LFT on Friday it came back positive . He went and got the other test today so it’ll be interesting to see if that comes back positive or those LFT are pile of poo as some have suggested . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 A couple of graphs that illustrate the misleading way that governments produce their case numbers by age groups. The first show the published weekly case numbers for "children" (up to age 19) by age group. It appears to show that the infection rate among primary school children (5-11) is the highest, followed by the 12-15 age group. However, as the age groups range in size from 2 years to 7 years, a better illustration of the same data is the weekly case numbers, per year, within each age group. That shows a different picture in that the highest infection rates are 18-19, followed by 16-17, so it is the older teenagers who are most likely to become infected, which isn't really a surprise. However, primary school children are only 4th out of the 5 age groups by that measure. Did I ever tell you that 87.3% of statistics are made up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Footballfirst said: A couple of graphs that illustrate the misleading way that governments produce their case numbers by age groups. The first show the published weekly case numbers for "children" (up to age 19) by age group. It appears to show that the infection rate among primary school children (5-11) is the highest, followed by the 12-15 age group. However, as the age groups range in size from 2 years to 7 years, a better illustration of the same data is the weekly case numbers, per year, within each age group. That shows a different picture in that the highest infection rates are 18-19, followed by 16-17, so it is the older teenagers who are most likely to become infected, which isn't really a surprise. However, primary school children are only 4th out of the 5 age groups by that measure. Did I ever tell you that 87.3% of statistics are made up? Yes and the 7 deaths in the last week were people over 65 , they don’t let that info out easily either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: A couple of graphs that illustrate the misleading way that governments produce their case numbers by age groups. The first show the published weekly case numbers for "children" (up to age 19) by age group. It appears to show that the infection rate among primary school children (5-11) is the highest, followed by the 12-15 age group. However, as the age groups range in size from 2 years to 7 years, a better illustration of the same data is the weekly case numbers, per year, within each age group. That shows a different picture in that the highest infection rates are 18-19, followed by 16-17, so it is the older teenagers who are most likely to become infected, which isn't really a surprise. However, primary school children are only 4th out of the 5 age groups by that measure. Did I ever tell you that 87.3% of statistics are made up? been happening throughout with measures such as per 1000 once graphed without caveat there looks like massive differences but when applied across the full population (whatever that is) or graphed and caveated the difference could be 10-15% (that could still be a significant difference in context obviously but completely different to how it might look graphed using whatever scale is ‘convenient’) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 44 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: A couple of graphs that illustrate the misleading way that governments produce their case numbers by age groups. The first show the published weekly case numbers for "children" (up to age 19) by age group. It appears to show that the infection rate among primary school children (5-11) is the highest, followed by the 12-15 age group. However, as the age groups range in size from 2 years to 7 years, a better illustration of the same data is the weekly case numbers, per year, within each age group. That shows a different picture in that the highest infection rates are 18-19, followed by 16-17, so it is the older teenagers who are most likely to become infected, which isn't really a surprise. However, primary school children are only 4th out of the 5 age groups by that measure. Did I ever tell you that 87.3% of statistics are made up? Have you written to PHS and asked them to reconsider how they present age-related data? Might be worth a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Victorian said: Umbrellas kind of don't prevent rain from falling. The clouds sort of don't see some punter weilding a brolly and think "**** this, I'll no bother raining 'cos look... bloke's got an umbrella". And extension of restrictions by a month have not stopped cases from rising. Pesky virus just isn't paying attention is it? Restrictions haven't changed but cases are rising so there must be other factors at play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 46 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Yes and the 7 deaths in the last week were people over 65 , they don’t let that info out easily either The data is readily available and on Travelling Tabby's page (see New Cases and Deaths by Age group at https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/). What FF is referring to is the choice of age ranges for age-related statistics, and he is spot on in that regard. The latest chart: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, redjambo said: The data is readily available and on Travelling Tabby's page (see New Cases and Deaths by Age group at https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/). What FF is referring to is the choice of age ranges for age-related statistics, and he is spot on in that regard. The latest chart: 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, JamesM48 said: Disagree Most people are now “ living with this thing “ get on Board with the rest of thd population . The media deliberately fuelling the infection rises yet again . Quell surprise . My friend who felt unwell at beginning of last week took a LFT on Friday it came back positive . He went and got the other test today so it’ll be interesting to see if that comes back positive or those LFT are pile of poo as some have suggested . As I said - I am living with it. It would have been easier to do so if positivity and hospitalisations weren't rising fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: As I said - I am living with it. It would have been easier to do so if positivity and hospitalisations weren't rising fast Yes well that’s a given but we have to accept a certain level of hospital admissions / deaths due to a variety of factors just like we do with heart attacks / cancer / flu etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Dazo said: Fair enough but I completely disagree. It just looks like fear propaganda and control factors. The caution ship sailed the moment freedom day was tangled. We aren’t going back the way so being more cautious is never going to happen. Case number updates these days have zero effect on the majority of joe public and their level of caution. I accept the above is based on hospitalisations being manageable. I'm a little more cautious than might have been had cases / hospitalisations continued to drop, so it has happened with me - eg a bit more aware of social distancing. I'm not frightened in any way by the data but I respect other people might be more wary when cases are rising, especially if they aren't double vaccinated yet. I doubt we will go backwards with the rules and I don't think we should , but I accept we are unlikely to reduce restrictions further if hospitalisations are rising. For me it's a bit selfish as I would like to sit with my mates in the pub before the games at Tynie and in seats next to each other to watch the game. If we haven't got hospitalisations moving in the right direction by the time the season starts I doubt that will happen, unfortunately, though I'd be happy to take the risk myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: As I said - I am living with it. It would have been easier to do so if positivity and hospitalisations weren't rising fast If vaccination numbers were keeping up, I would be less concerned. However, for whatever reason, the 7-day vaccination average has been steadily decreasing for the last couple of weeks. I'm living with it too and not overly concerned, but the key proviso all along was that we needed to keep control of the virus rather than letting it run out of control and hence control us and reduce our ability to manage it. I think we're in danger of losing that control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: Yes well that’s a given but we have to accept a certain level of hospital admissions / deaths due to a variety of factors just like we do with heart attacks / cancer / flu etc Yes we do, I agree, but if they are rising then the level is changing and we may pass an 'acceptable ' point/ level. I don't think we will and I really hoe we don't but it is possible and will depend on the success of the various measures in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, redjambo said: If vaccination numbers were keeping up, I would be less concerned. However, for whatever reason, the 7-day vaccination average has been steadily decreasing for the last couple of weeks. I'm living with it too and not overly concerned, but the key proviso all along was that we needed to keep control of the virus rather than letting it run out of control and hence control us and reduce our ability to manage it. I think we're in danger of losing that control. I think it is simply a case of lack of supply re the vaccinations. We have been vaccinating more as a percentage than in England for the last few weeks, and could clearly do more. I think the only limiting factor must be the supply. It is interesting to note I forward a link to my daughter (19) and son (20) as soon as it was announced they could sign up for a vaccination. I think it was in the last week of May/ first week of June. They both did so immediately and were given a date of 7 July (by coincidence same afternoon and same place) . Had there been a plentiful supply I guess they would have been scheduled in sooner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: As I said - I am living with it. It would have been easier to do so if positivity and hospitalisations weren't rising fast People aren't staying long in hospital anymore as vaccines are stopping severe disease. In the last wave there were 40,000 people in the UK in hospital and 1400 deaths a day. Today there are 1316 people in hospital and 6 deaths reported. There were 928 people in hospital on 1st June when cases started rising, so less than 400 more in 3 weeks. 4,579 people were admitted to hospital on one day on the 12th January Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: I think it is simply a case of lack of supply re the vaccinations. We have been vaccinating more as a percentage than in England for the last few weeks, and could clearly do more. I think the only limiting factor must be the supply. It is interesting to note I forward a link to my daughter (19) and son (20) as soon as it was announced they could sign up for a vaccination. I think it was in the last week of May/ first week of June. They both did so immediately and were given a date of 7 July (by coincidence same afternoon and same place) . Had there been a plentiful supply I guess they would have been scheduled in sooner My grandson (20) registered 3 weeks ago and received his first jag last week. Not sure where but was in the Lothian Health Board area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: My grandson (20) registered 3 weeks ago and received his first jag last week. Not sure where but was in the Lothian Health Board area. That's good - mine are registered in Perthshire - it's quite important to get that age cohort with their first jabs , though many will already have the antibodies to some extent (my daughter has had covid, my son not) Edited June 21, 2021 by scott herbertson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 From the Beeb - I wonder how robust that 400k estimate is? "Long Covid" is affecting a significant number of people in the UK, Dr Deepti Gurdasani, a clinical epidemiologist, has said. She told BBC World News long Covid was not just limited to patients who were very ill or hospitalised. About 13% of people with just mild symptoms went on to develop long Covid with symptoms for 12 weeks or more. "It is not something that lasts for a short period of time. Among the million people in the UK who we think are impacted now, about 400,000 are people who have had symptoms for one year or more. And that is how debilitating it can be," she said. Dr Gurdasani, who has been researching long Covid at Queen Mary University of London, said younger people and women were more at risk, but anyone could get long Covid." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 38 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: And extension of restrictions by a month have not stopped cases from rising. Pesky virus just isn't paying attention is it? Restrictions haven't changed but cases are rising so there must be other factors at play. Would you not concede that there's rather more chance of social distancing restrictions reducing/suppressing infections than there is of umbrellas reducing/suppressing the amount of rainfall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, scott herbertson said: That's good - mine are registered in Perthshire - it's quite important to get that age cohort with their first jabs , though many will already have the antibodies to some extent (my daughter has had covid, my son not) 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said: People aren't staying long in hospital anymore as vaccines are stopping severe disease. In the last wave there were 40,000 people in the UK in hospital and 1400 deaths a day. Today there are 1316 people in hospital and 6 deaths reported. There were 928 people in hospital on 1st June when cases started rising, so less than 400 more in 3 weeks. 4,579 people were admitted to hospital on one day on the 12th January I appreciate that - it is the big positive with the vaccination programme and hopefully we can speed up the vaccinations again. It is also probably down to better understanding of the treatment ( I have heard this cited by medics on the radio) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, Victorian said: Would you not concede that there's rather more chance of social distancing restrictions reducing/suppressing infections than there is of umbrellas reducing/suppressing the amount of rainfall? Of course. Never suggested otherwise. My point was about what constitutes scientific proof, in response to a view that if B follows A then it is "easily provable" that B is a result of A. And of course I never suggested my umbrella would affect the amount of rain. Quite the opposite, in line with the point I was making ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HartleyLegend3 Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 https://goodlawproject.org/update/vip-lane-companies-revealed/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social media&utm_campaign=vip lane 2106 Good Law Project is now able to reveal the names of six more companies awarded PPE contracts through the controversial’ VIP’ fast-track lane for associates of ministers and advisers. These six firms landed nearly half a billion pounds of public contracts – all without competition – and were uncovered in documents prised from Government in the course of our litigation: Uniserve Limited is a logistics firm controlled by Iain Liddell. Prior to the pandemic, the firm had no experience in supplying PPE, yet the firm landed a staggering £300m+ in PPE contracts from the DHSC and an eye-watering £572m deal to provide freight services for the supply of PPE. The company shares the same address as Cabinet Minister Julia Lopez MP and is based in her constituency. Here they are together. Draeger Safety UK Ltd which is a subsidiary of the Germany based Draeger AG, landed a direct award contract in July 2020 to supply FFP3 masks valued at £87m. Urathon Europe Limited, a Wiltshire based supplier of wheelchair accessories, was handed two contracts worth £74m to supply face masks. Correspondence released during our recent PPE hearing revealed the Urathon contracts were ‘escalated through VIP Channel’. First Aid For Sport Limited, SanaClis, and Global United Trading and Sourcing PTE Ltd were awarded contracts from the DHSC worth a combined total of £28.6m. The six companies revealed here are in addition to the six other ‘VIPs’ previously revealed by Good Law Project. In April we revealed documents showing P14 Medical, Luxe Lifestyle, and Meller Designs were fast-tracked down the ‘VIP’ route alongside Pestfix and Ayanda. P14 Medical, run by a Tory donor and ex-Tory councillor, was awarded £276m in PPE contracts. Meller Designs, run by another large Tory donor, David Meller, won more than £160m of PPE contracts. Luxe Lifestyle, a tiny recently-formed company with no staff and no experience in buying and selling PPE, was awarded a contract worth £26m after being referred to the VIP lane by an MP. This followed our scoop last December that Government had handed PPE Medpro, a firm linked to an associate of a Conservative peer with mystery investors, £200m of PPE contracts via the ‘high-priority lane.’ It’s been months of battle to get here. Why is Government so determined to keep the names of VIPs hidden? At whose request did they get ushered through the VIP lane? Documents revealed during our High Court hearing last month show civil servants were “drowning” in referrals from politically connected individuals, which were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 200 million tests have been taken in the UK. 200million. Only the USA pop 330million) and India (pop 1.4billion) have conducted more tests. Is it any wonder we get so many positives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Of course. Never suggested otherwise. My point was about what constitutes scientific proof, in response to a view that if B follows A then it is "easily provable" that B is a result of A. And of course I never suggested my umbrella would affect the amount of rain. Quite the opposite, in line with the point I was making ... It doesn't need to be scientifically proved. Not everything needs to be proved with scientific facts and methods to be understood as being a thing that exists. You were drooling on about infections rising despite restrictions. As usual you conveniently omit the unprovable but easily understood scenario that the restrictions have reduced / limited the rate of increase of infections. People who need to have everything proved to them or use absence of proof as a proxy to be a contrarian are quite possibly a breed apart. A variant of concern perhaps. Evolved and adapted to escape any common sense and reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Pupkin Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said: 200 million tests have been taken in the UK. 200million. Only the USA pop 330million) and India (pop 1.4billion) have conducted more tests. Is it any wonder we get so many positives? That’s absolutely crazy...Is it the same folk getting tested over and over again.. 😳 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Rupert Pupkin said: That’s absolutely crazy...Is it the same folk getting tested over and over again.. 😳 Yes, e.g. Hospital and care staff, school kids, football players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 40 minutes ago, Victorian said: It doesn't need to be scientifically proved. Not everything needs to be proved with scientific facts and methods to be understood as being a thing that exists. You were drooling on about infections rising despite restrictions. As usual you conveniently omit the unprovable but easily understood scenario that the restrictions have reduced / limited the rate of increase of infections. People who need to have everything proved to them or use absence of proof as a proxy to be a contrarian are quite possibly a breed apart. A variant of concern perhaps. Evolved and adapted to escape any common sense and reason. Keep inventing straw men to knock down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_the_legend Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 48 minutes ago, jonesy said: In other news, a giant ball of fire appeared in the sky this morning. Government advisors predict that it may well disappear again this evening, before a second wave of the killer lump of hydrogen and helium reappears tomorrow at an eerily similar time. Nicola Sturgeon is refusing to rule out banning Scots from going out while the deadly ball wreaks its path of destruction across the otherwise grey skies. Humza Yousuf was unavailable for comment, as sources say he was continuing his intense preparations for howling at the ball of fire's nocturnal nemesis, the cheese sphere. Although to be fair, the sky fireball is a pretty rare occurrence in Scotland. 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Keep inventing straw men to knock down. Keep inventing your own truths based only on stuff that can be proved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said: 200 million tests have been taken in the UK. 200million. Only the USA pop 330million) and India (pop 1.4billion) have conducted more tests. Is it any wonder we get so many positives? That figure is misleading because the English have included lateral flow tests in their tests stat for a while now, the main reason that Travelling Tabby, for one, doesn't quote a total test figure for the UK. It's quite disingenuous, imo, for the English to include lateral flow tests, but I suppose it makes their testing figures look better. It also means that that the UK figure can only be compared against other countries which include such tests. Scotland doesn't include lateral flow tests in its Tests stat. Edited June 21, 2021 by redjambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Victorian said: Keep inventing your own truths based only on stuff that can be proved. That's the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 hours ago, scott herbertson said: I think it is simply a case of lack of supply re the vaccinations. We have been vaccinating more as a percentage than in England for the last few weeks, and could clearly do more. I think the only limiting factor must be the supply. It is interesting to note I forward a link to my daughter (19) and son (20) as soon as it was announced they could sign up for a vaccination. I think it was in the last week of May/ first week of June. They both did so immediately and were given a date of 7 July (by coincidence same afternoon and same place) . Had there been a plentiful supply I guess they would have been scheduled in sooner The data backs up what you're saying about us having been vaccinating more than the other nations recently and the drop we've been seeing seems to be us getting back to normality: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iantjambo Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 3 hours ago, BarneyBattles said: My daughter's the same - sent home today as some wee lad in her class tested positive. She seems quite happy about it but she's only 6 -my son is in P7 so it looks like we'll have to cancel a meal to celebrate him finishing up primary school booked for Friday. On the plus side, we can have a wee party in the house. It’s really shitty for the kids mate. I know the school can only do what’s best. Still disappointing for them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said: People aren't staying long in hospital anymore as vaccines are stopping severe disease. In the last wave there were 40,000 people in the UK in hospital and 1400 deaths a day. Today there are 1316 people in hospital and 6 deaths reported. There were 928 people in hospital on 1st June when cases started rising, so less than 400 more in 3 weeks. 4,579 people were admitted to hospital on one day on the 12th January Correct ! 2 hours ago, scott herbertson said: From the Beeb - I wonder how robust that 400k estimate is? "Long Covid" is affecting a significant number of people in the UK, Dr Deepti Gurdasani, a clinical epidemiologist, has said. She told BBC World News long Covid was not just limited to patients who were very ill or hospitalised. About 13% of people with just mild symptoms went on to develop long Covid with symptoms for 12 weeks or more. "It is not something that lasts for a short period of time. Among the million people in the UK who we think are impacted now, about 400,000 are people who have had symptoms for one year or more. And that is how debilitating it can be," she said. Dr Gurdasani, who has been researching long Covid at Queen Mary University of London, said younger people and women were more at risk, but anyone could get long Covid." You got any good news to impart today ? 1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said: 200 million tests have been taken in the UK. 200million. Only the USA pop 330million) and India (pop 1.4billion) have conducted more tests. Is it any wonder we get so many positives? Well even though I wasn’t much of a fan but Trump Did stats the more you test the more you will get higher numbers positive . It’s obvious . It’ll be interesting to see how my friends PCR test comes back as his LFT came back positive . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 Oh dear NS in a foul mood tonight on the STV news when challenged about the hypocrisy of Dundee v Manchester and Andy Burnham . She had a real hatchet face on about it all ! Not a happy bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, jonesy said: Prof Anthony Harnden, deputy chairman of the government's advisory committee on vaccination, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that flu "could be potentially a bigger problem this winter than Covid." Just can’t help themselves. We are going down a rabbit hole regarding health ! You would think that these “experts “ having never heard of mortality ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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