Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[redjambo]

2 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

Anyone read about the outrage towards Lord Sumption’s comments to a blogger on Question Time?

 

He told her that her life was less valuable than younger people’s lives. There’s been a mass hysteria over his comments, but other than the crudity of his words, I can’t see much wrong with what he has said. 
 

There is an economic and medically ethical price on each of our lives. If not, we would spend £1bn to extend someone’s life by 12 hours. We don’t, because that is above the threshold of what is deemed to be the value of that life. 
 

Is a 90 year old’s life worth the same as a newborn? I understand there’ll be different opinions on this bit, but I fully agree with Lord Sumption that it is not. 

 

Once you start down the road of treating the lives of some of the population as less valuable than others, no matter the means of discrimination, you're on a rocky road, as many countries and régimes have found out in the past. I would imagine that one of the foundations of the NHS was that we were all considered equal when it came to health provision. The argument of whether these values should differ is also a completely different one to that regarding how much money and resources we should devote to keeping an individual alive and healthy, i.e. how much value there is for everybody's life.

 

I realise that this is black and white, and in life there are always nuances. However, the general principle of at least not treating one person's life as better or of more value than another is crucial, imo, to a sane functioning society.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

Like I said I won't pretend to know how they should do it, I just find it surprising they aren't better prepared to protect staff etc. As you say, how many staff will now have to isolate?

Well there were about 4 different nurses around seeing him at various times . I recall a student physiotherapist  too and then the consultant . He also went out numerous times for a cigarette ! Ffs I just remembered that . So he’s been walking the corridors without mask too . 

[Victorian]

Lord Sumption is obviously a highly intelligent man.  He knows full well that his deeply ethical,  philosophical construct is not something that a lot of people will understand.  His wider agenda is most certainly the motive for starting such an argument.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Victorian

[DETTY29]

Still saying all* 80+ by 05 Feb and 70s+ and vulnerable by mid Feb.

 

Additional 40k vaccinated since Friday suggesting a 4k pd uplift.

 

*ALL is a bold statement.  Reasonable efforts to vaccinate all who want to be vaccinated, imo.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Well . Just had a call from “ Test and protect “ . Informing me that I have been In close contact with someone who has had a positive covid test . I stopped her before going any further and told her who exactly it was ! When I had my operation at hospital last Tuesday there was a guy opposite me on another bed . He was NOT wearing a mask . He clearly had mental health issues and kept demanding medication like diazepam etc . Nurses were at his beck and call all afternoon . I assumed that he had had a clear covid test either that day or day before hence the reason for not wearing the mask . The test and trace person told me he had had the test the day before ( I think ) anyway I’m pretty angry about this gross incompetence of the nursing staff . Surely he should have been placed In his own room ? So it was last Tuesday so I’ll need to self isolate until 26th ! I read that most people have symptoms between 3-7 days so hopefully my ok . Certainly will be drawing up a formal complaint . 

How do you know for sure it was them?

[redjambo]

13 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Still saying all* 80+ by 05 Feb and 70s+ and vulnerable by mid Feb.

 

Additional 40k vaccinated since Friday suggesting a 4k pd uplift.

 

*ALL is a bold statement.  Reasonable efforts to vaccinate all who want to be vaccinated, imo.

 

The last figures were published on Friday, none on Saturday, none yesterday, which means that today's figures cover 3 days including the 2 missing days.

[DETTY29]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

The last figures were published on Friday, none on Saturday, none yesterday, which means that today's figures cover 3 days including the 2 missing days.

Ta.

[Footballfirst]

The illustration below is somewhat sobering when it comes to setting expectations.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

19 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Still saying all* 80+ by 05 Feb and 70s+ and vulnerable by mid Feb.

 

Additional 40k vaccinated since Friday suggesting a 4k pd uplift.

 

*ALL is a bold statement.  Reasonable efforts to vaccinate all who want to be vaccinated, imo.

Mother is 93 and she keeps asking me it’s her turn.

I can tell her that info.

👍

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Well . Just had a call from “ Test and protect “ . Informing me that I have been In close contact with someone who has had a positive covid test . I stopped her before going any further and told her who exactly it was ! When I had my operation at hospital last Tuesday there was a guy opposite me on another bed . He was NOT wearing a mask . He clearly had mental health issues and kept demanding medication like diazepam etc . Nurses were at his beck and call all afternoon . I assumed that he had had a clear covid test either that day or day before hence the reason for not wearing the mask . The test and trace person told me he had had the test the day before ( I think ) anyway I’m pretty angry about this gross incompetence of the nursing staff . Surely he should have been placed In his own room ? So it was last Tuesday so I’ll need to self isolate until 26th ! I read that most people have symptoms between 3-7 days so hopefully my ok . Certainly will be drawing up a formal complaint . 

What an incompetent shower! But not surprising, unfortunately.  The guy with "issues", in addition to monopolising nursing staff, should have been nowhere near a general ward among people without "issues". Anyway, hope you continue to feel OK and get that formal complaint letter fired off!

[Footballfirst]

24 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Still saying all* 80+ by 05 Feb and 70s+ and vulnerable by mid Feb.

 

Additional 40k vaccinated since Friday suggesting a 4k pd uplift.

 

*ALL is a bold statement.  Reasonable efforts to vaccinate all who want to be vaccinated, imo.

40,151 over three days is an average of 13,384 a day.  The figures announced on Wed-Fri last week were all in excess of 16k per day 

[DETTY29]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

40,151 over three days is an average of 13,384 a day.  The figures announced on Wed-Fri last week were all in excess of 16k per day 

Yeah.  Got in my head Friday's were close of day, but figures announced on Friday would be close Thursday.

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

There are two important things to consider in relation to this:

 

1. As far as I'm aware, the consequences of the reaction to the three diseases illustrated did not have anything like the impact that those to CV19 are having. I imagine the appetite to get something done about this among the scientific, political and commercial interests is far beyond those three combined.

 

2. We live in an age of relatively advanced communications and technology, not to mention logistics. The capacity to get a vaccine produced and adminstered is also likely to be way beyond what was possible in the mid-20th century.

 

I agree that any and all optimism in relation to CV19 should be cautious given the known unknowns (copyright, Donald Rumsfeld), but there is really no excuse not to have the majority of the most vulnerable - the ones we are making sacrifices for - vaccinated by summer in most western countries given the resources available and the consequences of two years of inconsistent and misguided public health policy.

 

 

Yeh, the length of time taken to control those were not offset against complete shut down of the world as we know it. I the options are:

 

a) lockdowns, destruction of lives but a relatively quick fix through vaccination

b) continue as normal as per diphtheria, measles and whooping cough but a slow fix and accepting whatever impact that has

c) slow and continued destruction whilst the vaccination fails leading to growing unrest 

 

We've gone for option A and have every reason to believe it will work.

 

C won't happen because we'd quickly divert to option B imo.

 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What an incompetent shower! But not surprising, unfortunately.  The guy with "issues", in addition to monopolising nursing staff, should have been nowhere near a general ward among people without "issues". Anyway, hope you continue to feel OK and get that formal complaint letter fired off!

HI Enzo  Thanks.  Yeah ok so far apart from feeling a bit warm on Friday but no fever or anything. Yes He was a complete and utter idiot. I know it may sound harsh but he totally monopolized staff time..,  asking for diazepam etc and tea etc.  He never stopped talking either to anyone who would listen. He talked complete nonsense too. The more I think about it the more angry I am getting. First and foremost why was he placed in an open ward with 3 other people relatively near to him?  Why wasnt he given a covid rapid test that morning as he clearly has " issues" so might not be as responsible as others? I know bit of a stereotype but true in my experience.    There was an 81 years old man in the bed next to me . Hope he is ok .  The covid patient  was in and out of ward for ciggies .  Only saving grace I suppose is he was last in line to get his op.  However he might still have infected surgeons and others in the theater. Its a massive cock up by the hospital and I await their excused about it. Ill also inform my MSP who has been helping me with another complaint. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Met a friend today whom I hadn't seen since the Summer, oh my goodness, he's had way too much time on his hands and has well and truly went down the rabbit hole.

 

Covid is a bad flu, it's all to do with 5G, they get more money to record deaths as being from covid, 5G kills the birds, this was all discussed at one of those leaders meetings (he didn't know it was the G7 or G20), 5G is to blame, there is no vaccine it's all to put tracking chips inside you.

Did I mention that it's all 5G's fault.

 

He's went ga ga, he's totally gone, so I asked him if he's getting the vaccine, am I feck they're no putting a tracking chip in me he said, he was also moaning that facebook has removed a lot of his posts because of mis-information, BS he said, it's me that's telling the truth.

 

He's clearly went deeper and deeper into those rabbit holes since I last spoke to him, and now I can see just what we are up against with these people.  The worst of it is he used to be a level headed normal person, now he's on the verge of joining the covid deniers.....grim.

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Met a friend today whom I hadn't seen since the Summer, oh my goodness, he's had way too much time on his hands and has well and truly went down the rabbit hole.

 

Covid is a bad flu, it's all to do with 5G, they get more money to record deaths as being from covid, 5G kills the birds, this was all discussed at one of those leaders meetings (he didn't know it was the G7 or G20), 5G is to blame, there is no vaccine it's all to put tracking chips inside you.

Did I mention that it's all 5G's fault.

 

He's went ga ga, he's totally gone, so I asked him if he's getting the vaccine, am I feck they're no putting a tracking chip in me he said, he was also moaning that facebook has removed a lot of his posts because of mis-information, BS he said, it's me that's telling the truth.

 

He's clearly went deeper and deeper into those rabbit holes since I last spoke to him, and now I can see just what we are up against with these people.  The worst of it is he used to be a level headed normal person, now he's on the verge of joining the covid deniers.....grim.

 

 

Sadly there’ll be quite a lot like him.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Met a friend today whom I hadn't seen since the Summer, oh my goodness, he's had way too much time on his hands and has well and truly went down the rabbit hole.

 

Covid is a bad flu, it's all to do with 5G, they get more money to record deaths as being from covid, 5G kills the birds, this was all discussed at one of those leaders meetings (he didn't know it was the G7 or G20), 5G is to blame, there is no vaccine it's all to put tracking chips inside you.

Did I mention that it's all 5G's fault.

 

He's went ga ga, he's totally gone, so I asked him if he's getting the vaccine, am I feck they're no putting a tracking chip in me he said, he was also moaning that facebook has removed a lot of his posts because of mis-information, BS he said, it's me that's telling the truth.

 

He's clearly went deeper and deeper into those rabbit holes since I last spoke to him, and now I can see just what we are up against with these people.  The worst of it is he used to be a level headed normal person, now he's on the verge of joining the covid deniers.....grim.

 

 

 

It's almost like isolating people in their homes and freezing their lives has a negative impact on their mental health, which is also manifesting itself in ways like the above which makes them a hindrance to the problem we're trying to solve.

 

What do you do with them? I guess, leave them to it is the only option.

 

 

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Met a friend today whom I hadn't seen since the Summer, oh my goodness, he's had way too much time on his hands and has well and truly went down the rabbit hole.

 

Covid is a bad flu, it's all to do with 5G, they get more money to record deaths as being from covid, 5G kills the birds, this was all discussed at one of those leaders meetings (he didn't know it was the G7 or G20), 5G is to blame, there is no vaccine it's all to put tracking chips inside you.

Did I mention that it's all 5G's fault.

 

He's went ga ga, he's totally gone, so I asked him if he's getting the vaccine, am I feck they're no putting a tracking chip in me he said, he was also moaning that facebook has removed a lot of his posts because of mis-information, BS he said, it's me that's telling the truth.

 

He's clearly went deeper and deeper into those rabbit holes since I last spoke to him, and now I can see just what we are up against with these people.  The worst of it is he used to be a level headed normal person, now he's on the verge of joining the covid deniers.....grim.

 

These have been very trying times for everyone, full of stress and pressure. It's understandable that folk will grasp at any straws in order to provide comfort to themselves and to make sense of everything that is happening, and that includes the straws of conspiracy theory which now conveniently abound across the internet. It's sad to see it happening to people, especially like your friend if they were formerly pretty much level-headed.

[Beni]

10 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Met a friend today whom I hadn't seen since the Summer, oh my goodness, he's had way too much time on his hands and has well and truly went down the rabbit hole.

 

Covid is a bad flu, it's all to do with 5G, they get more money to record deaths as being from covid, 5G kills the birds, this was all discussed at one of those leaders meetings (he didn't know it was the G7 or G20), 5G is to blame, there is no vaccine it's all to put tracking chips inside you.

Did I mention that it's all 5G's fault.

 

He's went ga ga, he's totally gone, so I asked him if he's getting the vaccine, am I feck they're no putting a tracking chip in me he said, he was also moaning that facebook has removed a lot of his posts because of mis-information, BS he said, it's me that's telling the truth.

 

He's clearly went deeper and deeper into those rabbit holes since I last spoke to him, and now I can see just what we are up against with these people.  The worst of it is he used to be a level headed normal person, now he's on the verge of joining the covid deniers.....grim.

 

 

 

Did you ask him what username he uses on this thread?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Did you ask him what username he uses on this thread?

 

He's not into football, in fact he's not into sport at all.

 

In reply to several posts.

It was an eye opener because in the space of a year he's went from pretty much normal to being of the opinion that covid wasn't as bad as they were making it out to be, to full blown 5G conspiracy theorist, goodness knows where he'll be in 6 months time.

[Beni]

33 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

That's a very good article, explains the dangers of the casedemics from the point of view of a lockdown sceptic. Ivor Cummings and Michael Yeadon getting a deserved kicking in it. 

 

It is a lengthy read but I encourage people to try and give it a go

 

I watched some of Ivor Cummins videos early on in the pandemic and he seemed to talk sense, but his claims about it effectively being over with herd immunity achieved means I can't take him seriously anymore.

He also seems to buy into it being a big pharma money making plan, which his followers lap up, and without a hint of irony he asks them to send him money.

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by fancy a brew

[JudyJudyJudy]

57 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

What an incompetent shower! But not surprising, unfortunately.  The guy with "issues", in addition to monopolising nursing staff, should have been nowhere near a general ward among people without "issues". Anyway, hope you continue to feel OK and get that formal complaint letter fired off!

Just been on the phone to the ward i was in last week to discuss the covid patient. I spoke with one of the senior nurses who was quite defensive and almost blase about the issue. She explained that I should not have been told who the covid patient was ( even though I knew it was him) due to confidentiality.  I felt like telling her to feck confidentiality  when people are at risk of a disease. I didn't though.  She argued that he " probably" had a medical exemption . Whilst I understood this surely that should have meant he was placed in a room on his own. Her answer was there was no other rooms available. I expressed my concern about the whole issue but she again explained about the patients right to confidentiality. She said that i should only self isolate for 10 days and not the 14 as was the advice of the Test and Trace person. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

He's not into football, in fact he's not into sport at all.

 

In reply to several posts.

It was an eye opener because in the space of a year he's went from pretty much normal to being of the opinion that covid wasn't as bad as they were making it out to be, to full blown 5G conspiracy theorist, goodness knows where he'll be in 6 months time.

Sounds like the guy needs support  and is struggling with his mental health more than anything. Decrying his views probably wont help him either but having a healthy debate with him may be beneficial?  But as you said he sounds like he has went down a " rabbit hole" 

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Fair enough.

 

All fairly subjective from all angles, TBH.

 

Also it fails (unless I missed it as I skim read the article) to address that that it isn't as binary as supporting (accepting in his case) lockdowns Vs Covid 'cranks'.

 

The author may have reluctantly come to accept the current lockdown but not every has. There will be loads of people who don't support it despite not being a Covid denier. I believe Covid exists, I believe for some people it is a really terrible thing, I don't believe it's caused by 5G masts or it's all fake positives etc. I do believe that the best outcome, for the vast majority of people would be not to have lockdowns. That's a fundamental belief I have based on maximising outcomes for the most amount of people. Until I believe that the current approach is the best for the majority, I'll never really be in favour of it.

 

That will be called selfish as usual, but I'd say wanting worse outcomes for the majority to favour better outcomes for the few is actually more selfish but that doesn't suit the narrative of anti-lockdowners being selfish gits who just want to go to the pub.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Taffin

[redjambo]

Scottish numbers: 18 January 2021

Summary

• 1,429 new cases of COVID-19 reported [+88]
• 13,294 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results – 12.3% of these were positive [-2.962; +2.8%]
• 0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends) [=]
• 146 people are in intensive care with recently confirmed COVID-19 [-1]
• 1,959 people are in hospital with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+41]
• 264,991 people have received their first dose of the COVID-19 vaccination and 3,698 have received their second dose [+40,151; +367 - both figures total over the last 3 days]

[redjambo]

The latest 7-day per-capita case rates around the councils, based on reporting date. The gradual decline continues, but with a wee spike in the Western Isles.

 

			7-day per-100,000 cases
Council Area	Tier	Previous	Today	Yesterday			16 Jan	15 Jan	14 Jan	13 Jan	12 Jan	...	20 Dec
Scotland			222	229	-7		239	240	245	262	264	...	98
Glasgow City	4	3	344	360	-16		365	363	374	383	380	...	129
North Lanarkshire	4	3	327	342	-15		352	357	362	395	393	...	119
Renfrewshire	4	3	306	314	-8		328	324	323	366	386	...	116
Inverclyde	4	2	290	294	-4		342	370	389	411	401	...	59
North Ayrshire	4	3	289	300	-11		305	289	304	320	337	...	175
Dumfries & Galloway	4	1	279	289	-10		314	297	322	334	348	...	32
Clackmannanshire	4	3	277	270	+7		264	264	233	248	229	...	148
East Ayrshire	4	3	275	283	-8		293	276	269	289	298	...	153
East Dunbartonshire	4	3	273	287	-14		297	305	286	279	269	...	70
South Lanarkshire	4	3	271	274	-3		280	278	289	299	281	...	120
West Dunbartonshire	4	3	246	259	-13		272	277	272	250	244	...	120
Aberdeen City	4	3	244	244	0		257	257	254	250	266	...	163
South Ayrshire	4	3	244	246	-2		241	226	218	228	251	...	98
Dundee City	4	3	235	237	-2		256	261	273	313	313	...	113
Falkirk	4	2	227	239	-12		239	231	232	265	272	...	60
East Renfrewshire	4	3	208	204	+4		201	203	204	214	226	...	101
Fife	4	3	175	177	-2		189	196	199	215	208	...	97
Perth and Kinross	4	3	168	184	-16		217	222	236	249	245	...	126
Scottish Borders	4	1	164	171	-7		197	213	209	241	261	...	85
Angus	4	2	158	170	-12		182	176	176	202	222	...	37
Na h-Eileanan Siar	3	1	157	105	+52		105	52	56	30	30	...	22
West Lothian	4	3	156	155	+1		159	166	151	164	158	...	83
Aberdeenshire	4	3	152	156	-4		158	174	186	221	222	...	88
Stirling	4	3	148	146	+2		150	138	141	159	157	...	70
Edinburgh City	4	3	147	150	-3		162	170	171	192	189	...	109
Highland	4/3	1	136	154	-18		165	184	174	187	199	...	17
East Lothian	4	3	121	112	+9		105	99	93	108	113	...	148
Midlothian	4	3	114	109	+5		117	127	119	151	156	...	136
Moray Eel	4	1	105	101	+4		120	118	120	135	142	...	13
Shetland Islands	3	1	87	74	+13		74	83	74	96	135	...	0
Argyll and Bute	4/3	2	75	89	-14		90	86	85	84	87	...	29
Orkney Islands	3	1	18	13	+5		13	18	18	18	27	...	0

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, redjambo said:

The latest 7-day per-capita case rates around the councils, based on reporting date. The gradual decline continues, but with a wee spike in the Western Isles.

 

			7-day per-100,000 cases
Council Area	Tier	Previous	Today	Yesterday			16 Jan	15 Jan	14 Jan	13 Jan	12 Jan	...	20 Dec
Scotland			222	229	-7		239	240	245	262	264	...	98
Glasgow City	4	3	344	360	-16		365	363	374	383	380	...	129
North Lanarkshire	4	3	327	342	-15		352	357	362	395	393	...	119
Renfrewshire	4	3	306	314	-8		328	324	323	366	386	...	116
Inverclyde	4	2	290	294	-4		342	370	389	411	401	...	59
North Ayrshire	4	3	289	300	-11		305	289	304	320	337	...	175
Dumfries & Galloway	4	1	279	289	-10		314	297	322	334	348	...	32
Clackmannanshire	4	3	277	270	+7		264	264	233	248	229	...	148
East Ayrshire	4	3	275	283	-8		293	276	269	289	298	...	153
East Dunbartonshire	4	3	273	287	-14		297	305	286	279	269	...	70
South Lanarkshire	4	3	271	274	-3		280	278	289	299	281	...	120
West Dunbartonshire	4	3	246	259	-13		272	277	272	250	244	...	120
Aberdeen City	4	3	244	244	0		257	257	254	250	266	...	163
South Ayrshire	4	3	244	246	-2		241	226	218	228	251	...	98
Dundee City	4	3	235	237	-2		256	261	273	313	313	...	113
Falkirk	4	2	227	239	-12		239	231	232	265	272	...	60
East Renfrewshire	4	3	208	204	+4		201	203	204	214	226	...	101
Fife	4	3	175	177	-2		189	196	199	215	208	...	97
Perth and Kinross	4	3	168	184	-16		217	222	236	249	245	...	126
Scottish Borders	4	1	164	171	-7		197	213	209	241	261	...	85
Angus	4	2	158	170	-12		182	176	176	202	222	...	37
Na h-Eileanan Siar	3	1	157	105	+52		105	52	56	30	30	...	22
West Lothian	4	3	156	155	+1		159	166	151	164	158	...	83
Aberdeenshire	4	3	152	156	-4		158	174	186	221	222	...	88
Stirling	4	3	148	146	+2		150	138	141	159	157	...	70
Edinburgh City	4	3	147	150	-3		162	170	171	192	189	...	109
Highland	4/3	1	136	154	-18		165	184	174	187	199	...	17
East Lothian	4	3	121	112	+9		105	99	93	108	113	...	148
Midlothian	4	3	114	109	+5		117	127	119	151	156	...	136
Moray Eel	4	1	105	101	+4		120	118	120	135	142	...	13
Shetland Islands	3	1	87	74	+13		74	83	74	96	135	...	0
Argyll and Bute	4/3	2	75	89	-14		90	86	85	84	87	...	29
Orkney Islands	3	1	18	13	+5		13	18	18	18	27	...	0

👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Also it fails (unless I missed it as I skim read the article) to address that that it isn't as binary as supporting (accepting in his case) lockdowns Vs Covid 'cranks'.

 

The author may have reluctantly come to accept the current lockdown but not every has. There will be loads of people who don't support it despite not being a Covid denier. I believe Covid exists, I believe for some people it is a really terrible thing, I don't believe it's caused by 5G masts or it's all fake positives etc. I do believe that the best outcome, for the vast majority of people would be not to have lockdowns. That's a fundamental belief I have based on maximising outcomes for the most amount of people. Until I believe that the current approach is the best for the majority, I'll never really be in favour of it.

 

That will be called selfish as usual, but I'd say wanting worse outcomes for the majority to favour better outcomes for the few is actually more selfish but that doesn't suit the narrative of anti-lockdowners being selfish gits who just want to go to the pub.

Well said 

[joondalupjambo]

4 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

The revised document is a couple of pages shorter.  The weekly breakdown of 'committed' supplies received table and by supplier has been removed as well as just the addresses.

Cheers thanks for the clarification.

 

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Vaccination centres opening up at the Gyle and the Royal Highland show ground plus a few other places. Big push for volunteers at the moment to cover from the 1st of Feb for 6-8 months. Big plans being out into motion. Another good development.

[Taffin]

32 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

There are loads of policies, many you will support, that are not about maximising the outcome for the majority of people, look at benefits and welfare as an example. To me that is not how policy should be decided.

 

I believe benefits and welfare do maximise the outcome for the majority long term. The less people in poverty, the better the outcomes for the entire country, and providing them doesn't hinder anyone else unduly. The net benefit of them is positive.

 

Would I support them if the cost to supply them crippled other people financially or destroyed their education and mental health? No, but they don't. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Taffin

[Beni]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

Also it fails (unless I missed it as I skim read the article) to address that that it isn't as binary as supporting (accepting in his case) lockdowns Vs Covid 'cranks'.

 

The author may have reluctantly come to accept the current lockdown but not every has. There will be loads of people who don't support it despite not being a Covid denier. I believe Covid exists, I believe for some people it is a really terrible thing, I don't believe it's caused by 5G masts or it's all fake positives etc. I do believe that the best outcome, for the vast majority of people would be not to have lockdowns. That's a fundamental belief I have based on maximising outcomes for the most amount of people. Until I believe that the current approach is the best for the majority, I'll never really be in favour of it.

 

That will be called selfish as usual, but I'd say wanting worse outcomes for the majority to favour better outcomes for the few is actually more selfish but that doesn't suit the narrative of anti-lockdowners being selfish gits who just want to go to the pub.

 

Although the author is reluctantly pro lockdown, so obviously has concluded that it is better than the alternative, that's only one of his objections to the Yeadon/Cummins narrative.

 

He's also arguing against their opinion that the PCR test is so flawed to be useless, that Covid has run its course and so won't cause a large number of excess deaths this winter, and even if it did most of these people would be dying with rather than from Covid.

 

So he's arguing against their anti lockdown stance, and disagreeing with the thought processes that got them there, which I think are different to yours.

[Taffin]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

To me you aren't arguing about lockdowns then you are arguing against the financial aid and comic recovery plans the Government has used/will use. Recessions happen often, a global pandemic appears to be one of the better reasons to have one. As an example austerity is a far bigger killer than Covid or lockdowns, but it was what the majority wanted.

 

No, I'm not arguing against/about anything, people can think whatever they want about it, they can think it's good/bad, not the right decision/is the right decision...that's entirely their opinion which is no less valid than mine. I'm personally against lockdowns, because I believe the net impact on the majority people's lives and society as a whole is negative and does more damage than good. Not just financially, but also, and more importantly, people's mental well-being and the long term implications of that in addition to the removal of liberty and social interactions which I view as an inherent human need.

 

I agree though that austerity is a bigger killer than Covid or lockdowns. However lockdown will inevitably lead to more austerity. People will vote for it and as such that's the will of the people, so be it, I'll still think it will be doing more harm than good.

[sadj]

4 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

Like I said I won't pretend to know how they should do it, I just find it surprising they aren't better prepared to protect staff etc. As you say, how many staff will now have to isolate?

Not touching the subject of James’s situation. Hopefully he is fine and there is no detriment to his health. Reason for quoting you is about the staff , my friend works on the Covid Ward in ARI she has been off twice with Covid. Be that a relapse or picking it up a second time im unsure. Hospitals are always a hive for disease. i would assume Covid is no different and as its highly transmissible most likely worse. My friend has been continually in appropriate PPE and yet as I say she and indeed her colleagues have suffered from it. Their staff levels are poor and that will obviously lead to either shortcuts or mistakes being made as people struggle mentally and physically to cover the slack. 

 

 

2 hours ago, jonesy said:

I read it. He makes some good points, but it is simply a lengthy subjective opinion piece - bit like posts on this thread. He also makes some sweeping assumptions and the article’s commenters do a reasonable job of highlighting the holes in his thinking. While a welcome addition to the debate, I don’t think it’s as much of a mic drop as you’re reading of it feels, Bri.

The problem with the bulk of arguments on both sides is their perception of the data and taking out of it what suits them. Its almost impossible to get an objective view.

 

 

2 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

I watched some of Ivor Cummins videos early on in the pandemic and he seemed to talk sense, but his claims about it effectively being over with herd immunity achieved means I can't take him seriously anymore.

He also seems to buy into it being a big pharma money making plan, which his followers lap up, and without a hint of irony he asks them to send him money.

 

 

 

That last part is my biggest problem with him. As Iv just said both sides can use info as they want to highlight info they want. However when you create a brand or ask for money by pushing an extreme point of view on either side all credibility disappears imo

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

TBF your position on lockdowns is IMO far more valid than the justifications many use, as FaB outlined above. When I used the word arguing in the context of that being your opinion, if that makes sense, I'm not saying you are not entitled to it.

 

I think the article was aimed at the thousands on the extreme end of anti-lockdown/covid denial and as such the leaders/scientist who got them there. It is perfectly sensible discussion to have as to the other effects of lockdown rather than just lives v economy, although it all links eventually. I suggest only time will tell, but then maybe we will know better for the future.

 

Yeh that's fair, I didn't take the use of 'arguing' as negative by the way, I just wanted to be clear that I'm not intending to change anyone elses view on it, that it's just where my thoughts on it are 👍

 

We can probably never really know for sure but we'll certainly get a better look in hindsight. We can also mitigate a lot of my concerns around it all with how me approach it going forward, I won't hold my breath to what the UK government have in store for that though 🤦🏻‍♂️

[the general]

2 hours ago, LMc said:

Vaccination centres opening up at the Gyle and the Royal Highland show ground plus a few other places. Big push for volunteers at the moment to cover from the 1st of Feb for 6-8 months. Big plans being out into motion. Another good development.

 

any links?

[Doctor FinnBarr]

4 hours ago, LMc said:

Vaccination centres opening up at the Gyle and the Royal Highland show ground plus a few other places. Big push for volunteers at the moment to cover from the 1st of Feb for 6-8 months. Big plans being out into motion. Another good development.

 

Volunteers? They don't want to pay people for it? Just watch for Jobseekers allowance getting stopped the minute someone offers to help out.

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, the general said:

 

any links?

 No links but NHS Lothians asking their own volunteer support teams to help out potentially from 01 Feb for just over 10 hours per day, 6-8 months

 

Bathgate

Gyle

Ingleston

 

and possibly Gorebridge and Haddington.

 

 

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

13 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Volunteers? They don't want to pay people for it? Just watch for Jobseekers allowance getting stopped the minute someone offers to help out.

That’s not what it means. They will get paid. I’m sure you get double entendres.

[DETTY29]

List of NHS vaccination 'hubs' per Edinburgh Live website.

 

• East Lothian Community Hospital
• Sighthill Health Centre
• Atley Ainslie Hospital
• Liberton Hospital
• Pennywell All Care Centre – Tbc
• Leith Community Treatment Centre – Tbc
• Strathbrock Partnership Centre
• Stoneyburn Clinic
• Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh
• Roseburn Ward
• Waverley Gate
• Staff Clinic - Sighthill Health Centre
• Staff Clinic - Astley Ainslie Hospital
• Liberton Hospital
• Staff Clinic - Pennywell All Care Centre
• Staff Clinic- Leith Community Treatment Centre
• Penumbra Mileston
• Cairngreen Unit
• Staff Clinic - Strathbrock Partnership Centre
• Saint John's Hospital
• Stoneyburn Clinic
• Staff Clinic - Sjh Ward 21
• Carmondean Medical Group
• Whitesands Medical Practice
• Ratho Medical Practice
• Grange Medical Group
• Gracemount Medical Practice
• Brunton Place Surgery
• Blackridge Health Centre
• Braids Medical Practice
• Colinton Surgery
• Bruntsfield Medical Practice
• Craiglockhart Medical Group
• Morningside Medical Practice
• Firrhill Medical Centre
• Hermitage Medical Practice
• Colinton (Hscp)
• Inchpark Surgery
• Ferniehill Surgery
• Liberton Medical Group
• Mackenzie Medical Centre
• Braefoot Medical Practice
• Dalkeith Road Medical Practice
• The Southern Medical Group
• University Health Service
• Conan Doyle Medical Centre
• Southfield Medical Practice
• Niddrie Medical Practice
• Craigmillar Medical Group
• Milton Surgery
• Durham Road Medical Group
• Baronscourt Surgery
• Craigmillar (Hscp)
• Leith Surgery
• The Long House Surgery
• Dr Steve Allan & Partners
• Annandale Medical Practice
• Links Medical Centre
• The Hopetoun Practice
• Summerside Medical Practice
• The Victoria Practice
• Leith Mount Surgery
• Mill Lane Surgery
• Mill Lane Medical Centre
• The Green Practice
• Twiddy, Thyne & Partners
• Blackhall Medical Centre
• Crewe Medical Centre
• Muirhouse Medical Group
• Davidson's Mains Medical Centre
• The Group Practice - Eyre
• Pennywell All Care Centre (Hscp)
• Meadows Medical Practice
• Restalrig Park Medical Centre
• Marchmont Medical Practice
• St Triduana's Medical Practice
• Boroughloch Medical Practice
• Restalrig Medical Centre
• Whinpark Medical Practice
• Drs Sharpe, Putta & Burns Practice
• Sighthill Green Medical Practice
• Riccarton General Practice
• Wester Hailes Medical Practice
• Slateford Medical Practice
• Sighthill Health Centre (Hscp)
• South Queensferry Medical Practice
• Leven Medical Practice
• West End Medical Practice
• Polwarth Medical Practice
• Springwell Medical Group
• Gilmore Medical Practice
• West End Medical Centre
• Ladywell Medical Centre (West)
• Ladywell Medical Centre (East)
• Murrayfield Medical Practice
• The Pentlands Medical Practice
• Murrayfield Medical Centre
• Cramond Medical Practice
• Parkgrove Medical Practice
• Barclay Medical Practice East Craigs
• Wester Hailes Medical Centre
• Pentland Medical Centre (Hscp)
• Mountcastle Medical Centre
• Stockbridge Health Centre (Hscp)
• Edinburgh Access Practice
• Challenging Behaviour General Practice
• Tyne Medical Practice
• Gullane Medical Practice
• Riverside Medical Practice Llp
• The Harbours Medical Practice
• Lammermuir Medical Practice
• The Orchard Medical Practice
• Prestonpans Group Practice
• North Berwick Group Practice
• Inveresk Medical Practice
• East Linton Surgery
• Ormiston Medical Practice
• Tranent Medical Practice
• St Leonard's Medical Centre
• Lauderdale Medical Practice
• Cromwell Harbour Medical Practice
• Musselburgh Pcc (Hscp)
• East Lothian Community Hospital (Hscp)
• Eastfield Medical Practice
• Dalhousie Medical Practice
• Quarryfoot Practice
• Roslin Medical Practice
• Newbattle Medical Practice
• Penicuik Medical Practice
• Pathhead Medical Practice
• Newbyres Medical Group
• Dalkeith Medical Practice
• Danderhall Medical Practice
• Strathesk Medical Group
• Loanhead Medical Practice
• Danderhall (Hscp)
• Dalkeith Medical Practice (Hscp)
• Newbattle Medical Practice (Hscp)
• Eastfield Medical Practice (Hscp)
• Midlothian Community Hospital (Hscp)
• East Calder Medical Practice
• Ferguson Medical Practice
• Newland Medical Practice
• Lanrigg Medical Practice
• Linden Medical Practice
• Kingsgate Medical Practice
• Simpson Medical Group
• West Calder Medical Practice
• Linlithgow Group Medical Practice
• Whitburn Group Medical Practice
• Armadale Group Practice
• Howden Health Centre
• Dedridge Medical Group
• The Wood Medical Practice
• The Craigshill Partnership
• Ashgrove Group Practice
• Murieston Medical Practice
• Almond Group Practice
• Barclay Medical Practice
• Barclay Medical Practice-fauldhouse
• Almond Medical Practice (Kirkliston)
• Bathgate Pcc (Hscp)
• Stoneyburn Medical Centre
• Armadale Medical Centre

Mass Vaccination centres

• Edinburgh International Conference Centre

• Pyramids Business Park (Bathgate)

• Queen Margaret University (Musselburgh)

Edited January 18, 2021 by DETTY29

[DETTY29]

31 minutes ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

Volunteers? They don't want to pay people for it? Just watch for Jobseekers allowance getting stopped the minute someone offers to help out.

NHS Lothian and no doubt most NHS Health Boards have long established volunteer sections.

 

Running errands for patients, talking to lonely patients.  Since Covid there has been a bigger push for support as NHS staff diverted to other wards, self isolation impacts.

[DETTY29]

24 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

That’s not what it means. They will get paid. I’m sure you get double entendres.

No it's volunteering roles.

 

Queuing walking and so on.

Edited January 18, 2021 by DETTY29

[Victorian]

I think the larger scale vaccination centre model will work much more smoothly but unfortunately the over 80s / GP roll-out has been a bit of a fiasco.  There's clearly a dysfunction somewhere in the plan of this particular phase.  They'll have to get this sorted out within a few days or it could turn into a seriously damaging thing for the SG.  They'll no doubt blame the GPs and it might be partially correct in some cases.  But the buck stops at the top.  If the GPs are at fault then the cause is allowing the GPs to be at fault.  Inadequate leadership,  monitoring and support.

[Lord Inglis]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I think the larger scale vaccination centre model will work much more smoothly but unfortunately the over 80s / GP roll-out has been a bit of a fiasco.  There's clearly a dysfunction somewhere in the plan of this particular phase.  They'll have to get this sorted out within a few days or it could turn into a seriously damaging thing for the SG.  They'll no doubt blame the GPs and it might be partially correct in some cases.  But the buck stops at the top.  If the GPs are at fault then the cause is allowing the GPs to be at fault.  Inadequate leadership,  monitoring and support.

Agree, it all seems a bit of a mess.

 

Appreciate that areas will move at different paces but was pleasantly surprised to hear today my perfectly fit relatives in their early 70s will be vaccinated this Thursday in the north west of england. 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I think the larger scale vaccination centre model will work much more smoothly but unfortunately the over 80s / GP roll-out has been a bit of a fiasco.  There's clearly a dysfunction somewhere in the plan of this particular phase.  They'll have to get this sorted out within a few days or it could turn into a seriously damaging thing for the SG.  They'll no doubt blame the GPs and it might be partially correct in some cases.  But the buck stops at the top.  If the GPs are at fault then the cause is allowing the GPs to be at fault.  Inadequate leadership,  monitoring and support.

The Dr reception phoned my mum and  dad last Tuesday 86 and 89 gave them an appointment on Friday - I took them and they were in and out in 10 mins with their follow up on 1st April - no side effects. 

[Weakened Offender]

21 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

No it's volunteering roles.

 

Queuing walking and so on.

 

I heard they were looking for volunteers to sit with patients for a short period after they'd had their jabs to make sure there was no reactions. 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Lord Inglis said:

Agree, it all seems a bit of a mess.

 

Appreciate that areas will move at different paces but was pleasantly surprised to hear today my perfectly fit relatives in their early 70s will be vaccinated this Thursday in the north west of england. 

 

There's a potential **** up going on that will take a giant bite out of the SG unless they get a grip very swiftly.  As big a threat to their reputational capital as any other event during their tenure.  We'll see if Ms Sturgeon is as shrewd as she is dominant over her rivals.

[Footballfirst]

13 minutes ago, Victorian said:

I think the larger scale vaccination centre model will work much more smoothly but unfortunately the over 80s / GP roll-out has been a bit of a fiasco.  There's clearly a dysfunction somewhere in the plan of this particular phase.  They'll have to get this sorted out within a few days or it could turn into a seriously damaging thing for the SG.  They'll no doubt blame the GPs and it might be partially correct in some cases.  But the buck stops at the top.  If the GPs are at fault then the cause is allowing the GPs to be at fault.  Inadequate leadership,  monitoring and support.

I don't think the roll-out could be a described as a fiasco. The SG has focused on care homes and their staff with in excess of 80% already completed. The UK government has reported only having done 50% of care homes.  It's a bit of swings and roundabouts.  I'd hope that Scotland would catch up once the focus switches to the vaccination hubs for able bodied people.  That, of course, will be dependent on the availability of supplies of vaccines.   

[Lord Inglis]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

There's a potential **** up going on that will take a giant bite out of the SG unless they get a grip very swiftly.  As big a threat to their reputational capital as any other event during their tenure.  We'll see if Ms Sturgeon is as shrewd as she is dominant over her rivals.

Yep I'm surprised the media haven't been more challenging on this. In fact thinking about it, I'm not.

 

I want to hear numbers like "140 jabs a minute" or whatever the equivalent is here. 

[Lord Inglis]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

I don't think the roll-out could be a described as a fiasco. The SG has focused on care homes and their staff with in excess of 80% already completed. The UK government has reported only having done 50% of care homes.  It's a bit of swings and roundabouts.  I'd hope that Scotland would catch up once the focus switches to the vaccination hubs for able bodied people.  That, of course, will be dependent on the availability of supplies of vaccines.   

It's a fair point, but a very good plan would have vaccinated concurrently. 

 

Have a group doing the specialist stuff like care homes and then a group doing the big hubs. One doesn't have to follow the other.