Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[coconut doug]

35 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Pubs were open in July and the cases remained low.

The pubs have been largely closed since October and the cases are still rising in the West of Scotland

 

In July there were very few cases of the virus. On many days in July the cases were in single figures. It wouldn't matter if the pubs were heaving, there was no virus to transmit. People came back from holiday though and the cases rose and they were spread by human interaction.

 

Since October cases have fallen significantly in the West of Scotland. 

[Heartsmad1874]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

People came back from holiday though and the cases rose and they were spread by human interaction.

 

Do you have any evidence to back this up or just mild speculation and nonsense again?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Do you have any evidence to back this up or just mild speculation and nonsense again?

It’s nonsense 

[sadj]

22 hours ago, weehammy said:

Potato Heid Broadford, Robocop Swinney, Oompa Loompa Murrell, Long Distance Commuter Ferrier.......

 

Ffs 🤣🤣🤣

[JudyJudyJudy]

Pubs been closed since mid or late September ( I forget !) so where are the transmissions coming from then ? It must be shops , buses other transport or communal living ( student and residential ) nowt to do with pubs really . But like other have said they have got the raw deal . 

[coconut doug]

7 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

That's not true. Edinburgh met all the criteria and Sturgeon went against all her health advisors

Edinburgh city figures are still a lot less than Glasgow city

 

I believe Edinburgh did meet the criteria but other issues e.g. the direction of travel and the wider pull of Edinburgh were deemed to be the deciding factors. 

Sturgeon most certainly did not go against all her advisors. She and JL explained how and why the decision was made. Do you have any evidence to support the notion that she went against any advice? 

[Weakened Offender]

34 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I didn’t say she didn’t just that she needs a break,I think they should all have a turn at least once a week. Leitch certainly gives her a breather as he likes to talk. 

 

Leadership. 

[Heartsmad1874]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

I believe Edinburgh did meet the criteria but other issues e.g. the direction of travel and the wider pull of Edinburgh were deemed to be the deciding factors. 

Sturgeon most certainly did not go against all her advisors. She and JL explained how and why the decision was made. Do you have any evidence to support the notion that she went against any advice? 

If you are discriminating against cities because of other cities rather than just judging the cities cases and hospitalisations etc then your tier system has failed and should be binned.

[Heartsmad1874]

Just now, Weakened Offender said:

 

Leadership. 

 

 

[coconut doug]

20 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Wait a minute you say things are driven by science but then go on to say Edinburgh isn't doing well enough for Tier 2 even though the scientists have advised NS that it has been.

 

You really are an arse  

 

That's not what i said. 

[ArcticJambo]

4 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Surely the problem in the late summer was a result of opening up travel as explained by the scientists yesterday.

They claim the second wave was a result of more travel and they know this because of genomic tracing.

 

At the time i remember the SG being criticised for overly restrictive travel rules. People coming back from holiday brought many strains back with them at a time when the virus was all but gone in Scotland.

 

The tier system has been a success too. The circuit breaker helped get the figures down and the tiered system has enable us, unlike the rUK to avoid full lockdown since as well as keeping our figures lower than ruk.

 

The system is transparent, the figures you repeatedly ask for cannot be compiled. It is driven by science but we cannot have every decision made on the basis of it. Science in this situation is not separated from politics. Absolutely every sensible person now knows that the decision making process is a balancing act where different societies have different priorities. I am pleased education is a priority and opening the pubs is not, so it seems are most of the people in Scotland as according to opinion polls we heartily endorse the FM's handling of the crisis. Education is a higher priority than opening the pubs, if it were not we would be fulfilling all the stereotypes our detractors like to remind us of. 

 

You keep moaning about Edinburgh being treated badly but the reasoning has been clear all along. We have not quite been low enough for long enough to justify tier 2. Now that the figures are going up in the area how can any responsible government reduce restrictions? Can you imagine the reaction if we go down this week (based on Science) only to go to tier 4 next week? Glasgow has been a success too. It avoided full lockdown and now has figures similar to Edinburgh.

You surely can't be serious here.  It's been an unmitigated disaster for the SG and subsequently, the whole of Scotland.  It and then its satellite regions have fueled the mess we find ourselves in today.  Not surprising that we're now seeing the increases in all other regions because of the slow spread from the west central hotspots.  The SG failed to deal with them when they should have, back in late Sep/early Oct, when the numbers first took off.

[coconut doug]

12 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Do you have any evidence to back this up or just mild speculation and nonsense again?

 

10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

It’s nonsense 

 

https://www.ed.ac.uk/roslin/news-events/latest-news/scotland-s-second-covid-wave-linked-to-travel-tren

 

 

[CavySlaveJambo]

There are people who are ill with Covid who never show ANY of the three symptoms that allow them to get a test.    
 

That means the cases may not have dropped that low over the summer. 
 

 

[coconut doug]

5 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

If you are discriminating against cities because of other cities rather than just judging the cities cases and hospitalisations etc then your tier system has failed and should be binned.

 

The government is entitled to make any decision it thinks right. It can base it's decisions on any criteria it likes. It can weight the importance of any criteria in any way it sees fit. Not all cities/places are the same and criteria can and are changed to suit individual circumstances.

 

It's not my tier system and it has been something of a success.

[Konrad von Carstein]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

I see the spelling police are out in force today. 🤔

 

Its usually telling when that is they best they can come up with to defend the SG shitshow.

 

I thought he was being funny...you always seem awfy touchy...

[luckydug]

How has Scotland fared in comparison to r UK ? 

I'm thinking cases per 100k.

[Heartsmad1874]

10 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

That's not what i said. 

 

"It (the tiers) is driven by science but we cannot have every decision made on the basis of it. 

 

We have not quite been low enough for long enough to justify tier 2."

If the science is driving it Edinburgh would be Tier 2.
 

[Weakened Offender]

13 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

 

 

 

Silly wee pleb. 😊

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Leadership. 

Absolutely, she likes being in control,most people in the party or with any experience of with those in it will admit that.

[CavySlaveJambo]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

How has Scotland fared in comparison to r UK ? 

I'm thinking cases per 100k.

Lower - this is yesterday’s data though

 

Wales 624 per million

Enand 313 per million

N Ireland 233 per million

Scotland 171 per million 

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

There are people who are ill with Covid who never show ANY of the three symptoms that allow them to get a test.    
 

That means the cases may not have dropped that low over the summer. 
 

 

 

No you're off on a wild goose chase there.  Your idea supposes that a level of asymptomatic cases remained throughout while the level of symptomatic and tested people dropped to very low numbers.  That would mean that the rate of asymptomatic infections among all infections is variable to quite a wide degree.  There's never been anything to suggest such a thing.

 

The ONS antibody surveillance system picks up an ongoing prevalence of virus among the symptomatic and asymptomatic.  Such a thing was never shown in the survey.

[coconut doug]

8 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

You surely can't be serious here.  It's been an unmitigated disaster for the SG and subsequently, the whole of Scotland.  It and then its satellite regions have fueled the mess we find ourselves in today.  Not surprising that we're now seeing the increases in all other regions because of the slow spread from the west central hotspots.  The SG failed to deal with them when they should have, back in late Sep/early Oct, when the numbers first took off.

 

If the criteria is getting the numbers down then it has been a success. 

 

We are not seeing an increase in "all other regions".

 

Do you have any evidence to show that the infections from w central Scotland have infected the rest of the country?

 

Perhaps they should have locked down earlier but there was a lot of resistance and very limited support money. If precedent is anything to go by the SG would have locked down had it been possible.

[Heartsmad1874]

1 minute ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Silly wee pleb. 😊

Noone could seriously think appearing on tv every day for the last 9 months was leadership but here you are .

 

Yet i'm the silly pleb.

[Konrad von Carstein]

1 hour ago, JamesM48 said:

Her 5 days a week showing isnt actually a positive thing I would say. Its been like a one woman party show.  Its strikes of a cult ideology.  Mind you the others are fairly hopeless . Least she presents it all very well and articulately. 

 

Give your head a wobble!

Don't know what's happened to you recently but you used to be half decent as a poster...

[CavySlaveJambo]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

No you're off on a wild goose chase there.  Your idea supposes that a level of asymptomatic cases remained throughout while the level of symptomatic and tested people dropped to very low numbers.  That would mean that the rate of asymptomatic infections among all infections is variable to quite a wide degree.  There's never been anything to suggest such a thing.

This is Kings Colleges research not my theories.  The same people who found the third key symptom of Covid.   Also at least some would be a different sample of people to the ONS research.  
 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by CavySlaveJambo

[luckydug]

3 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

Lower - this is yesterday’s data though

 

Wales 624 per million

Enand 313 per million

N Ireland 233 per million

Scotland 171 per million 

 

It would appear the SG restrictions are working then. 

When it comes to a choice between the economy and human life the latter should prevail imo. 

 

[coconut doug]

9 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

 

"It (the tiers) is driven by science but we cannot have every decision made on the basis of it. 

 

We have not quite been low enough for long enough to justify tier 2."

If the science is driving it Edinburgh would be Tier 2.
 

 

If you have a point to make fgs try and make it a little more coherent than this.

[redjambo]

10 minutes ago, luckydug said:

How has Scotland fared in comparison to r UK ? 

I'm thinking cases per 100k.

 

From https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/

 

Over the past month:

 

[Weakened Offender]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Absolutely, she likes being in control,most people in the party or with any experience of with those in it will admit that.

 

Good leaders should want to be in control in times like these. Compare that to the shitshow down south and the utter clown in charge. The usual cretins on this embarrassment of a thread are very quick to avoid discussing that nonsense. 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

This is Kings Colleges research not my theories.  The same people who found the third key symptom of Covid. 
 

 

 

Asymptomatic cases have been known about from the start.  A rate of them has been known about.  What you supposed would involve the rate of asymptomatic cases somehow increasing markedly at the time when overall prevalence was very low.

 

How could there be a significant increase then decrease in the rate of asymptomatic infections among total infections?  Not a chance.

[Heartsmad1874]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

If you have a point to make fgs try and make it a little more coherent than this.

You said science is driving the decision for tiers when it clearly is not as Edinburgh remains in Tier 3. You are constantly falling over yourself to defend the SG.

[Weakened Offender]

5 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It would appear the SG restrictions are working then. 

When it comes to a choice between the economy and human life the latter should prevail imo. 

 

 

Indeed. 

[CavySlaveJambo]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Asymptomatic cases have been known about from the start.  A rate of them has been known about.  What you supposed would involve the rate of asymptomatic cases somehow increasing markedly at the time when overall prevalence was very low.

 

How could there be a significant increase then decrease in the rate of asymptomatic infections among total infections?  Not a chance.

I am saying that there may have been more cases which were symptomatic but not with the three key symptoms.  Which could have been allowed to spread because with none of the three key symptoms people COULD not get tested.   I am not saying anything about an increase/decrease in completely asymptomatic cases. I am saying there is the this other group who had other symptoms, had covid, but could not get tested.  

[Heartsmad1874]

10 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It would appear the SG restrictions are working then. 

When it comes to a choice between the economy and human life the latter should prevail imo. 

 

 BBC news just ran a story about suicide rates higher because of Covid restrictions (didn't catch it all). It is not as easy a choice between human life and the economy.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Heartsmad1874

[ArcticJambo]

27 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Normally they are very forward in giving information about specific outbreaks in workplaces or universities etc. It would be a surprise if universities were causing the issues in Midlothian??

They were on the brink of going to T2 a few weeks back, now they're appraoching med T3 levels , commensurate with the Lanarkshires, like what the af is going on.  I suspect that, in keeping with what's happening down south and the attention given to the 11-18yrs cohort, test positivity in this group is skewing numbers in smallish regions like Midlothian and East Lothian but if they're not going to release numbers associated with schools, etc then it's all just speculation.

 

Anecdoal of course but I know a good few children, Primary at that, who have had to self-isolate this week, and that's just in my small sphere of social contacts.

[CavySlaveJambo]

1 minute ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

 BBC news just ran a story about suicide rates higher because of Covid restrictions (didn't catch it all). It is not as easy a choice between human life and the economy.

And people are struggling.  
 

The problem is NS published criteria and is not sticking to them, which immediately means the autistic population is put at further risk, 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Just said on Reporting Scotland that 14 patients at the Borders General have now caught covid from the ward 7 outbreak, this is up 6 from yesterday. 

 

I'd guess the next few days will be critical whether they have managed to contain it or not.

I really hope they have or will get the outbreak under control because it doesn't bear thinking about what could happen if covid ran rife through a hospital.

[coconut doug]

9 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

You said science is driving the decision for tiers when it clearly is not as Edinburgh remains in Tier 3. You are constantly falling over yourself to defend the SG.

 

Of course science is driving the decision making but science goes beyond the infection rate and hospitalisations etc. Social factors also have to be considered alongside hard science.

  If i thought the FM made her decisions any other way i'd be disappointed.

[John Findlay]

People being miffed at politicians being politicians.

If you think any of the other three main parties in Scotland would have behaved any differently then you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[Victorian]

7 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

I am saying that there may have been more cases which were symptomatic but not with the three key symptoms.  Which could have been allowed to spread because with none of the three key symptoms people COULD not get tested.   I am not saying anything about an increase/decrease in completely asymptomatic cases. I am saying there is the this other group who had other symptoms, had covid, but could not get tested.  

 

Not only is there an ongoing number of positive tests (derived from those going for a test,  mostly after displaying symptoms) but there is also the ongoing community surveillance systems.  The likes of the ONS go out and test people to survey the rates and levels of virus and antibody presence.  The community surveys would have flagged up these theorised asymptomatic cases or cases nog displaying three main symptoms.  These surveys have never found such a divergence from the commonly accepted rate of asymptomatic cases.  If confirmed cases and prevalence was low then so was the level of these asymptomatic people.

[luckydug]

2 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Of course science is driving the decision making but science goes beyond the infection rate and hospitalisations etc. Social factors also have to be considered alongside hard science.

  If i thought the FM made her decisions any other way i'd be disappointed.

Getting a bit fed up with all the bitching about Edinburgh and Tier 3.

Its fecking obvious why the SG don't want to have a major city in a lower tier.  Idiots will travel just to get a pint. I expect the pubs in the borders to prove that point this weekend. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

33 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Give your head a wobble!

Don't know what's happened to you recently but you used to be half decent as a poster...

Thanks for the backhanded compliment. ! Like i have already said before I am more and more concerned about the impact of lockdown and tier measures on the general public in so many ways, which dont need evidenced.  Also I have had my own personal experience in the last few months of the effects of Covid in relation to treatment with the NHS.  If you have had any personal experiences re the impact of the Covid measures you might feel similar. Its can be our personal experiences which can make us view things differently through time. I was very supportive of the initial lockdown as you may note but since July time the SG have been in turmoil with their contradictory policies regarding covid. They claim to be " following the science".   A case in point last week when they changed the goal posts regarding Edinburgh and its tier and many other issues. I hope that answers your question and my head is very still now.  

Edited December 11, 2020 by JamesM48

[ArcticJambo]

22 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

If the criteria is getting the numbers down then it has been a success. 

 

We are not seeing an increase in "all other regions".

 

Do you have any evidence to show that the infections from w central Scotland have infected the rest of the country?

 

Perhaps they should have locked down earlier but there was a lot of resistance and very limited support money. If precedent is anything to go by the SG would have locked down had it been possible.

I really can't be arsed sitting here on a Friday night going to & fro on this but the numbers have always been comparatively low everywhere bar Glasgow and Lanarkshire, now they're increasing, just have a look at Red's spreadsheets.  Do you honestly believe that had Glasgow and Lanarkshire's numbers been at similar levels to Edinburgh, East Lothian, etc, like three sometimes four times lower, we'd be at anywhere near the numbers we are at now, and shitting it going into the home stretch before the Xmas free-for-all?  Nope, we'd be probably quite comfortable knowing that come the new year we would be upping the restrictions somewhat to bring it back down to the manageable levels ahead of mass vaccination.  Their very own tiered system has been mismanaged to appease certain areas.  They had absolutely no choice to hit the 11 regions up for T4 or else they'd be liable for the deaths of many more Scots.  So much for the caution applied there!

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

People being miffed at politicians being politicians.

If you think any of the other three main parties in Scotland would have behaved any differently then you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[luckydug]

6 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

People being miffed at politicians being politicians.

If you think any of the other three main parties in Scotland would have behaved any differently then you really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

The thought of Willie Rennie or the branch managers of the Labour or Tory parties making the decisions is truly frightening. 

[Weakened Offender]

2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Getting a bit fed up with all the bitching about Edinburgh and Tier 3.

Its fecking obvious why the SG don't want to have a major city in a lower tier.  Idiots will travel just to get a pint. I expect the pubs in the borders to prove that point this weekend. 

 

 

It's idiots who are bitching. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

This decision to let people mix at Christmas - I’m not disappointed by it personally but when you look at it in the context of the panic about rising infection rates, it’s utterly insane. Basically a government scared of upsetting people.

 

And typical of the ludicrous way the virus has been handled.

Fair comment.

[CavySlaveJambo]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

The likes of the ONS

So you only accept the ONS data not data from any other equally valid sources, even those from a leading hospital and university that has been submitted for Peer review.  Ok then.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

22 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

 BBC news just ran a story about suicide rates higher because of Covid restrictions (didn't catch it all). It is not as easy a choice between human life and the economy.

Exactly. Treatments for various chronic conditions been put  on hold, mental health referrals to services at record highs , the list is endless. 

[Heartsmad1874]

3 minutes ago, luckydug said:

The thought of Willie Rennie or the branch managers of the Labour or Tory parties making the decisions is truly frightening. 

Just because they would make an arse of it doesn't make Nicola look any better. Her handling of this pandemic has lurched from shambles to shambles and you could say the same for the UK govt. Wouldn't vote for any of them.