Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

 

 

 

 

Crazy having to justify such normal actions  

Large swathes of the nation have collectively sub contracted their decision making functions to a bunch of politicians and scientists who have completely overreacted to the appearance of a shiny, new virus. It's incredible how obsessed people have become while succumbing to totalitarian population measures, including an effective ban on the sale of alcohol in licensed premises.  You're right, having to explain your normal, every day routines on a board like this beggars belief. Politicians telling you when to book your summer holidays and how you should spend Christmas Day. Hopefully New Year brings an injection of common sense and a collective effort to rebuild the fractured economy. On Summer hols, my advice is Book Up To Bale Out

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Large swathes of the nation have collectively sub contracted their decision making functions to a bunch of politicians and scientists who have completely overreacted to the appearance of a shiny, new virus. It's incredible how obsessed people have become while succumbing to totalitarian population measures, including an effective ban on the sale of alcohol in licensed premises.  You're right, having to explain your normal, every day routines on a board like this beggars belief. Politicians telling you when to book your summer holidays and how you should spend Christmas Day. Hopefully New Year brings an injection of common sense and a collective effort to rebuild the fractured economy. On Summer hols, my advice is Book Up To Bale Out

👍👍👍

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Impossible to tell, Brian. 

 

I still would advocate for a complete reopening, with the vulnerable - i.e. those in the vaccine guinea pig...sorry, I mean priority group - being asked, although not required, to shield with appropriate family, community and government support where necessary. The halfway house, with both the politicians and the virus waxing and waning, that we've ended up with hasn't really done much to either save lives or restore normality. Instead, thousands are dead and the economy is Donald Ducked; the worst of both worlds. 

 

Either a hardcore, East Asian-style lockdown and tracing system was required early on, or normal life should have been allowed to carry on.

 

How did they work out the vaccine prioritisation? I thought it was far too onerous a task to work out who the vulnerable were?

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, jonesy said:

 

No danger. These fiddlers are in for the long-haul. Well, long enough until they can leave others to pick up the pieces.

Yes, a lot of folk are going to miss the exposure and publicity they're getting on a daily basis. The lunchtime monologues, the Off The Ball guest slots, the rolling news appearances,  the headline grabbing apocalyptic modelling predictions. They're going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming from the stage unfortunately 

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I disagree, I think they can’t wait to get off the stage and out of this. I think many will leave their posts entirely or just retreat into background. 

You could be right but time will tell. For a lot of them, a retreat into the background would be the best solution.

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I can see NS chucking in the towel, looks fed up with the whole thing. Plenty of the Science Officers will be happy to disappear but retain the high salary positions they have got to. We will see, there’s no much longer left 🤞

Hope you're right.👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

59 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You started it mentioning Sturgeons Surgeon 😜

True ! 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

33 minutes ago, jonesy said:

To your first point, yes, I agree there would be more risk of community transmission. Shielding the 'vulnerable' (a somewhat subjective term in itself) would require self-realisation on the part of those with health conditions (perhaps not a bad thing, given the wobbly, breathless nick of the nation) and an effort from families to drop off food and other supplies as needed. It's not that hard. For those without family, community and government can fill the gaps. They needn't expose themselves to the risks.

 

I accept this is not a widely-held view, and goes against how people have been conditioned, over the last nine months, to view how to deal with a virus. However, it wouldn't be much of a debate if we all agreed, eh?  I also appreciate that different people's experiences over the last nine months will have possibly influenced how they evaluate the ongoing response. The only deaths I've seen have been from people negatively impacted by the government measures, not from the CV19 virus.

Completely agree . It would have been more cost effective to plow every resource into shielding the elderly and vulnerable at the beginning anf keeping the economy going without the catastrophic effects the full lockdowns and tiers have had on people’s work , mental and physical health . 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

I have been before, but it’s a distant memory and non-regular occurrence unfortunately. 

😂

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 hours ago, redjambo said:

Today's per-100,000 7-day rates around the councils. Tiers are the ones coming into effect tomorrow. Looks like some of the tier 2's need reining in.

 

		7-day per-100,000 cases
Council Area	Tier	Today	Yesterday		Start of T4’s				8 Dec	7 Dec	6 Dec	5 Dec	4 Dec
Clackmannanshire	3	181	198	-17	165	+16			206	227	194	217	208
Argyll and Bute	2	154	162	-8	31	+123			165	166	176	173	182
East Ayrshire	3	149	148	+1	152	-3			150	132	123	121	114
North Ayrshire	3	145	154	-9	124	+21			155	144	139	136	137
Glasgow City	3	142	146	-4	235	-93			157	159	162	156	155
North Lanarkshire	3	141	142	-1	235	-94			140	156	152	153	159
Renfrewshire	3	128	128	0	260	-132			149	155	152	158	162
East Renfrewshire	3	125	127	-2	195	-70			137	137	154	150	156
South Lanarkshire	3	124	124	0	233	-109			131	138	128	136	146
West Lothian	3	122	123	-1	193	-71			122	116	116	110	114
East Lothian	2	114	99	+15	48	+66			84	76	71	66	63
Fife	3	114	106	+8	116	-2			107	111	105	101	103
Dundee City	3	104	112	-8	102	+2			115	110	104	101	96
Falkirk	2	104	80	+24	85	+19			71	79	76	68	62
South Ayrshire	3	101	99	+2	153	-52			101	100	103	101	103
East Dunbartonshire	3	100	100	0	161	-61			96	105	110	101	100
Aberdeen City	2	96	95	+1	51	+45			80	80	66	73	64
Midlothian	3	93	84	+9	101	-8			99	94	82	86	83
Stirling	3	90	83	+7	210	-120			89	83	70	84	94
Aberdeenshire	2	86	90	-4	64	+22			87	88	92	90	91
Edinburgh City	3	86	89	-3	84	+2			82	77	70	72	67
Perth and Kinross	3	83	94	-11	116	-33			96	94	89	100	100
West Dunbartonshire	3	63	67	-4	142	-79			71	76	70	87	89
Angus	2	55	65	-10	88	-33			59	62	67	64	66
Scottish Borders	1	52	48	+4	74	-22			41	40	37	35	35
Inverclyde	2	51	54	-3	99	-48			60	59	67	57	55
Dumfries & Galloway	1	27	26	+1	34	-7			26	26	23	21	20
Na h-Eileanan Siar	1	15	4	+11	0	+15			4	15	15	15	15
Moray	1	14	15	-1	25	-11			19	16	14	11	11
Highland	1	13	11	+2	19	-6			9	10	18	17	20
Orkney Islands	1	0	0	0	4	-4			0	4	4	4	4
Shetland Islands	1	0	4	-4	13	-13			4	4	4	4	4
Scotland		102	103	-1	135	-33			104	105	99	101	101

👍

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

On a separate note do you know what’s weird.  We are living through what will almost certainly be one of, if not THE, defining period* of any of our lives.  We will be reflecting on this and talking about this time for as long as any of us are around.  How strange it will be looking back on it all when life is fully back to normal.  Because we are still going through it I don’t think any of us will fully understand the magnitude of it all till it’s all over.  
 

*unless aliens invade anytime soon which to be honest given this year should not be ruled out.  

 

Agree with me or disagree, but I don't really rate this in terms of it being a "defining period".  I think it's phenomenally interesting, particularly because those of us who live in this part of the world have had it quite good since about 1945.  Also, it will be an endless source of interest to loads of people and loads of researchers of various aspects of the human condition.  But for me it still ranks lower on the "Richter scale" than other things that have happened in my lifetime.  If we weren't in sight of a resolution, or if the death toll was closer to the Spanish Flu or one of the world wars, I might have a different view.

[Ulysses]

[theshed]

24 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

👍

Looks like I’d better get a few pints in this weekend in Musselburgh as higher figures than Edinburgh now so  pubs will get shut again next week probably 

[ri Alban]

Australian vaccine quest going well.

[ri Alban]

Braehead will be fun this weekend. 

 

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 Looking at the shape of myself that might not be the worst side effect ever. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

 Looking at the shape of myself that might not be the worst side effect ever apart from the muscular moobs right enough. . 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

9 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

I can see NS chucking in the towel, looks fed up with the whole thing. 

 

Whether directly culpable or not, the care home disaster happened on her watch. Falling on her sword would be the honourable thing.

[Governor Tarkin]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Just imagine those pelvic floor muscles.

 

That would be tighter than a mouse's waistcoat.

 

[manaliveits105]

There is always Loose Women 

[Victorian]

Oz vaccine confers HIV antibodies.  Glaxo vaccine has fallen on it's pus (nae luck Vallance),  Oxford/AZ vaccine to trial in combination with Russian Sputnik one.

 

Chinese airline regulator recommends cabin crew wear nappies to avoid toilet use.  O'Leary no doubt ready to replicate for his passengers.

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

I think it will apply to most leaders across Europe. 
 

Handling of it across large parts of Europe has been questionable, they will be tarred with the event and many will have found leading during the crisis so challenging that they will want to step away from the front line. 
 

I don’t know if that applies to the fish, her ratings have surprisingly strong during this. Though I do think she is showing a lot of signs of fatigue and I think it is definitely impacting her. There are also some other stuff happening which probably isn’t aiding in her career. It may be time for her to move on.
 

Her ratings have remained strong because people realise she is prepared to do what she thinks best even if it upsets some people. 

A less strong leader would have been caving in to pressure from vested interests. 

She has taken the view than containing the virus is vital over economic interests. 

Some people disagree but you can't please all the people all the time. 

 

[gjcc]

3 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Just imagine those pelvic floor muscles.

 

That would be tighter than a mouse's waistcoat.

 

To benefit me it’ll have to be the button holes. 

[manaliveits105]

"Im a resident of the city of Glasgow" - bingo there she goes again 

[Harry Potter]

4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Whether directly culpable or not, the care home disaster happened on her watch. Falling on her sword would be the honourable thing.

Aye , the care homes, nightmare.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Harry Potter

[redjambo]

3 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

I think it will apply to most leaders across Europe. 
 

Handling of it across large parts of Europe has been questionable, they will be tarred with the event and many will have found leading during the crisis so challenging that they will want to step away from the front line. 
 

I don’t know if that applies to the fish, her ratings have surprisingly strong during this. Though I do think she is showing a lot of signs of fatigue and I think it is definitely impacting her. There are also some other stuff happening which probably isn’t aiding in her career. It may be time for her to move on.
 

 

I personally think that she should stand back from the handling of the Covid response, certainly as the visible and active day-to-day figurehead of that response, and leave it to her colleagues. I know that the pandemic is a serious threat to many of the population of the country that she heads, but there's only so much stress and pressure that one person can take over a prolonged period of time. She can still be involved in the strategic decisions in the background.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

Oz vaccine confers HIV antibodies.  Glaxo vaccine has fallen on it's pus (nae luck Vallance),  Oxford/AZ vaccine to trial in combination with Russian Sputnik one.

 

Chinese airline regulator recommends cabin crew wear nappies to avoid toilet use.  O'Leary no doubt ready to replicate for his passengers.

 

No doubts they'll have to be a certain size as well, which you can only purchase from Ryanair.

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

No doubts they'll have to be a certain size as well, which you can only purchase from Ryanair.

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, luckydug said:

Her ratings have remained strong because people realise she is prepared to do what she thinks best even if it upsets some people. 

A less strong leader would have been caving in to pressure from vested interests. 

She has taken the view than containing the virus is vital over economic interests. 

Some people disagree but you can't please all the people all the time. 

 

Well she caved in to demands from universities to allow students back in order to maintain money grab, she caved in to Greens to allow Swinney to keep education job. She also had to be forced into placing Glasgow into harshest tier weeks after it should have been done and then slackened measures despite numbers not justifying it. She also lied to parliament over Salmond affair, and is to blame for care home problems. Also punishing Edinburgh when really it should be rewarded. 

Not really strong leader. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

"Im a resident of the city of Glasgow" - bingo there she goes again 

She can't help herself, hates Edinburgh with a vengeance. 

[kila]

What happens if the cabin crew's nappies start overflowing?

 

I can imagine them all waddling off the plane to the terminal where they can finally change.

[luckydug]

12 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well she caved in to demands from universities to allow students back in order to maintain money grab, she caved in to Greens to allow Swinney to keep education job. She also had to be forced into placing Glasgow into harshest tier weeks after it should have been done and then slackened measures despite numbers not justifying it. She also lied to parliament over Salmond affair, and is to blame for care home problems. Also punishing Edinburgh when really it should be rewarded. 

Not really strong leader. 

All these are just your biased opinion. 

Not facts just opinion. 

[ArcticJambo]

10 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Well she caved in to demands from universities to allow students back in order to maintain money grab, she caved in to Greens to allow Swinney to keep education job. She also had to be forced into placing Glasgow into harshest tier weeks after it should have been done and then slackened measures despite numbers not justifying it. She also lied to parliament over Salmond affair, and is to blame for care home problems. Also punishing Edinburgh when really it should be rewarded. 

Not really strong leader. 

This one was a disgrace, and will have cost a lot of lives.  It is also responsible for the state we find ourselves in just now all over Scotland, with rising numbers in all but the the Tier 4 regions released today.

[redjambo]

Scottish numbers: 11 December 2020

Summary

• 1,001 new cases of COVID-19 reported [+68]
• 30 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive [-20]
• 53 people were in intensive care yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+1]
• 999 people were in hospital yesterday with recently confirmed COVID-19 [+15]
• 24,924 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results – 4.6% of these were positive [+1,426; -0.1%]

[redjambo]

Per-board per-100,000 case stats:

 

Scotland 18 [+1].

 

Ayrshire 32 [+10], Lothian 22 [+5], Fife 21 [-3], Greater Glasgow 21 [+3].

 

Grampian 19 [+8], Lanarkshire 19 [-5], Tayside 15 [+1], Forth Valley 11 [-15], Borders 10 [=].

 

All others: less than 10.

[Mikey1874]

6 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

I don't disagree, but a small observation - that would apply to half the leaders in Western Europe. Ultimately she has taken full control and responsibility for the decision making in this and therefore you are correct, the buck stops with her.

 

The big questions are UK wide. Sturgeon said the 4 countries were working together. Others say the UK Government led on when to lockdown for example. 

 

But the bigger questions are around how the information on the virus, freely made available by China in January was assessed. Who decided that it was like the flu leading to complacency that led to things like care home deaths and the failure to stop flights in February. 

[Mikey1874]

In other news I noted a lot of criticism in the media of the Russian vaccine which is said not to have had as rigorous development and testing. 

 

Well now joint work is taking place between the Oxford and Russian vaccine. Can't have been so bad after all.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55273907

[ArcticJambo]

4 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Lanarkshire was late going into tier 4, but not Glasgow. 

Can't agree, Brian.  Lanarkshire and Glasgow had higher than was acceptable numbers for a long time. It was obvious to all that they were going to have a detrimental effect over the coming weeks, and so it has proved.  It was a mistake not to shut down those regions earlier.

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Can't agree, Brian.  Lanarkshire and Glasgow had higher than was acceptable numbers for a long time. It was obvious to all that they were going to have a detrimental effect over the coming weeks, and so it has proved.  It was a mistake not to shut down those regions earlier.

 

I agree with you on this, ArcticJambo. The spread to Lanarkshire was in my mind the result of the inaction on Glasgow.

[redjambo]

Today's per-100,000 7-day case rates around the councils:

 

		7-day per-100,000 cases
Council Area	Tier	Today	Yesterday		Start of T4’s				9 Dec	8 Dec	7 Dec	6 Dec	5 Dec
Clackmannanshire	3	167	181	-14	165	+2			198	206	227	194	217
East Ayrshire	3	160	149	+11	152	+8			148	150	132	123	121
North Ayrshire	3	160	145	+15	124	+36			154	155	144	139	136
Renfrewshire	3	138	128	+10	260	-122			128	149	155	152	158
Glasgow City	3	135	142	-7	235	-100			146	157	159	162	156
North Lanarkshire	3	129	141	-12	235	-106			142	140	156	152	153
South Lanarkshire	3	127	124	+3	233	-106			124	131	138	128	136
West Lothian	3	125	122	+3	193	-68			123	122	116	116	110
Midlothian	3	123	93	+30	101	+22			84	99	94	82	86
East Lothian	2	122	114	+8	48	+74			99	84	76	71	66
East Renfrewshire	3	119	125	-6	195	-76			127	137	137	154	150
Fife	3	118	114	+4	116	+2			106	107	111	105	101
Aberdeen City	2	114	96	+18	51	+63			95	80	80	66	73
Dundee City	3	111	104	+7	102	+9			112	115	110	104	101
South Ayrshire	3	111	101	+10	153	-42			99	101	100	103	101
East Dunbartonshire	3	104	100	+4	161	-57			100	96	105	110	101
Falkirk	2	99	104	-5	85	+14			80	71	79	76	68
Edinburgh City	3	93	86	+7	84	+9			89	82	77	70	72
Stirling	3	91	90	+1	210	-119			83	89	83	70	84
Aberdeenshire	2	85	86	-1	64	+21			90	87	88	92	90
Perth and Kinross	3	75	83	-8	116	-41			94	96	94	89	100
West Dunbartonshire	3	74	63	+11	142	-68			67	71	76	70	87
Angus	2	60	55	+5	88	-28			65	59	62	67	64
Inverclyde	2	57	51	+6	99	-42			54	60	59	67	57
Scottish Borders	1	56	52	+4	74	-18			48	41	40	37	35
Argyll and Bute	2	48	154	-106	31	+17			162	165	166	176	173
Dumfries & Galloway	1	25	27	-2	34	-9			26	26	26	23	21
Moray	1	19	14	+5	25	-6			15	19	16	14	11
Na h-Eileanan Siar	1	15	15	0	0	+15			4	4	15	15	15
Highland	1	13	13	0	19	-6			11	9	10	18	17
Orkney Islands	1	0	0	0	4	-4			0	0	4	4	4
Shetland Islands	1	0	0	0	13	-13			4	4	4	4	4
Scotland		103	102	+1	135	-32			103	104	105	99	101

[Nucky Thompson]

9 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Interesting that today’s cases per 100k are Glasgow 20, Edinburgh 19. 
 

So Glasgow maybe heading for 2 and Edinburgh looking at 4 soon. 

Glasgow 135

Edinburgh 93

Probably enough for Sturgeon to do as you suggest and find some justification for it

 

She'll be raging that some businesses have taken them to court

 

 

 

Covid Scotland: Nicola Sturgeon's decision to keep Edinburgh in level three 'unlawful', court told - Edinburgh Live

[frankblack]

6 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Glasgow 135

Edinburgh 93

Probably enough for Sturgeon to do as you suggest and find some justification for it

 

She'll be raging that some businesses have taken them to court

 

 

 

Covid Scotland: Nicola Sturgeon's decision to keep Edinburgh in level three 'unlawful', court told - Edinburgh Live

 

I said from the start with these tiers that as soon as they announced "disgression for the SG to decide" it was always going to head for trouble.

[westbow]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I said from the start with these tiers that as soon as they announced "disgression for the SG to decide" it was always going to head for trouble.

Digression or discretion Frank?

[ArcticJambo]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

Per-board per-100,000 case stats:

 

Scotland 18 [+1].

 

Ayrshire 32 [+10], Lothian 22 [+5], Fife 21 [-3], Greater Glasgow 21 [+3].

 

Grampian 19 [+8], Lanarkshire 19 [-5], Tayside 15 [+1], Forth Valley 11 [-15], Borders 10 [=].

 

All others: less than 10.

How has Lothian Health Board ended up being the second worst in Scotland today?

[ArcticJambo]

1 minute ago, westbow said:

Digression or discretion Frank?

Stop digressing, but that's at your discretion I guess!

[westbow]

4 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Stop digressing, but that's at your discretion I guess!

My posts are more excretion tbf.

[frankblack]

9 minutes ago, westbow said:

Digression or discretion Frank?

 

I see the spelling police are out in force today. 🤔

 

Its usually telling when that is they best they can come up with to defend the SG shitshow.

Edited December 11, 2020 by frankblack

[westbow]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

I see the spelling police are out in force today. 🤔

Sorry man, couldn't resist it. My spelling is pretty dodgy at the best of times.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Brian Dundas said:

You’re paranoid, I don’t think they were defending the SG. This pandemic isn’t all about you. 

 

The only person that is paranoid is you who posts defences of everything this shambles of a government does.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, westbow said:

Sorry man, couldn't resist it. My spelling is pretty dodgy at the best of times.

 

No worries.  I am generally ok, but if I rush posts sometimes the spelling drifts!

 

Used to have a spell checker in my browser...