Brighton Jambo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, indianajones said: Was not specially aimed at you Brighton, sorry. Just some other rise-able comments. I would say in your case the nursery need to risk assess and work out how they can provide care for children again. The government can apply these guides but i'd say its up to the business to implement them. Not entirely sure how nurseries can reopen and maintain social distancing mind you. Even with a garden! Cool, I need to get this three year old out from under my feet before I get fired and/or decide to move out and live in the forest as a hermit Edited May 21, 2020 by Brighton Jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Hopefully the tourist trade, Hotels, Seaside resorts etc... Don't take the pish out of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, weehammy said: The fact that people are comparing approaches and presentation in different nations shows that a President Sturgeon has achieved exactly what she wants. The care homes disaster has occurred right across the UK btw. So that go for Wales and Northern Ireland as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, felix said: Phase 3: "Relaxation of restrictions on accommodation providers (including hotels, B&Bs and holiday homes)". When hotels eventually reopen ; their bar/restaurant operations wont be able to operate as normal. Cheers, thank you 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambogaza Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 25 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: So that go for Wales and Northern Ireland as well. Aye from the staunch Irish nationalist Arlene Foster..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, jambogaza said: Aye from the staunch Irish nationalist Arlene Foster..... All I meant was they have gone a different path from UKgov but only Sturgeon has an agenda ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, fancy a brew said: But Sweden have a similar death rate to the UK without a lockdown. I can't see how the UK could have achieved anything like the Swedes given what the UK R number was pre lockdown. Sweden have so far managed to avoid exponential growth in infections, the UK didn't. Sweden's cumulative deaths per capita is actually very significantly lower than the UK (for what any of these numbers are worth). You are right - Sweden has so far avoided the rate of growth and total per capita deaths we have seen in the UK and elsewhere. To the extent that was related to lock down or its absence we don't know and what the final outcome in deaths due to Covid and deaths related to the Covid epidemic and reactions to it will be … we don't know and won't know for a long time. The headline "worst death rate in the world" is meaningless and misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Coronavirus in Sweden: 'It's a myth that life is going on as normal,' says Swedish government. https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/17/coronavirus-in-sweden-it-s-a-myth-that-life-is-going-on-as-normal-says-swedish-government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Some of the posts are reminiscent of North Korean worship of their Great Leader. Nicola is much more coherent and intelligent and believable than Boris. A low bar. The Scottish Government may as a whole be more competent than that at Westminster (again a low bar) but at least from down here it is difficult to judge because we don't see much of anyone except Nicola. Maybe that is very different up there. But when it comes down to it, just how different has the Scottish approach been in real action rather than rhetoric? They have done some things a little sooner, some things a little later but fundamentally pretty much the same things give or take a few days or a week or two. It looks to me that Scotland has lost effective control of lock down more quickly than the rest of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Sweden's cumulative deaths per capita is actually very significantly lower than the UK (for what any of these numbers are worth). You are right - Sweden has so far avoided the rate of growth and total per capita deaths we have seen in the UK and elsewhere. To the extent that was related to lock down or its absence we don't know and what the final outcome in deaths due to Covid and deaths related to the Covid epidemic and reactions to it will be … we don't know and won't know for a long time. The headline "worst death rate in the world" is meaningless and misleading. Over the last 7 days Sweden has had more deaths per capita than the UK, more than any country in the world. I wouldn't be holding them up as an example of how to deal with a pandemic just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Some of the posts are reminiscent of North Korean worship of their Great Leader. Nicola is much more coherent and intelligent and believable than Boris. A low bar. The Scottish Government may as a whole be more competent than that at Westminster (again a low bar) but at least from down here it is difficult to judge because we don't see much of anyone except Nicola. Maybe that is very different up there. But when it comes down to it, just how different has the Scottish approach been in real action rather than rhetoric? They have done some things a little sooner, some things a little later but fundamentally pretty much the same things give or take a few days or a week or two. It looks to me that Scotland has lost effective control of lock down more quickly than the rest of the UK. Other than doing things at a different pace what else could there possibly be as differences? We had the same starting point and are aiming for the same end point. Maybe take heed of the bit in bold before spouting nonsense like your last paragraph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Some of the posts are reminiscent of North Korean worship of their Great Leader. Nicola is much more coherent and intelligent and believable than Boris. A low bar. The Scottish Government may as a whole be more competent than that at Westminster (again a low bar) but at least from down here it is difficult to judge because we don't see much of anyone except Nicola. Maybe that is very different up there. But when it comes down to it, just how different has the Scottish approach been in real action rather than rhetoric? They have done some things a little sooner, some things a little later but fundamentally pretty much the same things give or take a few days or a week or two. It looks to me that Scotland has lost effective control of lock down more quickly than the rest of the UK. You could look at it two ways I think. To me, it looks like the First Minister has led from the front, unlike the Prime Minister. She's a very good communicator and has impressed. Or, you could say that the SNP and the Scottish Government lack depth. It's only Sturgeon we see and hear up here too. Generally speaking anyway. There hasn't been much real difference in approach in terms of the practicalities in dealing with the virus, other than the timing of coming out of lockdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnybob72 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Phase 1 starts in a week but short of going to work / shop you are still restricted to 5 miles travel and they would prefer if you walked or cycled. Phase 1 could go on for 3 weeks which effectively means we are still not permitted to do much for the next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, graygo said: Over the last 7 days Sweden has had more deaths per capita than the UK, more than any country in the world. I wouldn't be holding them up as an example of how to deal with a pandemic just yet. Neither am I. Nor would I hold up the UK (or Italy, Spain, France, the US etc) Just saying it is an interesting alternative route and far too soon to call the outcome. Strange Sweden has suddeny become of wider interest just as the UK daily death rate per capita falls to about the same level as that of Sweden. Some keen to see Sweden suffer from going against the herd … no doubt including some proponents of lock down. Edited May 21, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Victorian said: Because it's all dependent on the "if it all goes well" part. Suggesting dates but dependent on it going well could create confusion or offer a false hope. We all have something to aim for. Things will happen faster if people maintain social distancing disciplines. Yeah I know but at least we have dates. For instance I can aim to get back to my caravan at Haggerston for 4th July per UK government. If we get a slight spike he could say ok we're delaying it by a fortnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Neither am I. Nor would I hold up the UK (or Italy, Spain, France, the US etc) Just saying it is an interesting alternative route and far too soon to call the outcome. Strange Sweden has suddeny become of wider interest just as the UK daily death rate per capita falls to about the same level as that of Sweden. Some keen to see Sweden suffer from going against the herd … no doubt including some proponents of lock down. I'll just have to accept that we have a different outlook on things. You say the UK figures have dropped to the same level as Sweden completely ignoring the fact that theirs has risen to meet ours. Both things have happened. It's not surprising that most people hope that lockdown hasn't been in vain, that's human nature. Edited May 21, 2020 by graygo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Spellczech said: Yep - Italy and Spain, perhaps even Singapore and S Korea. UK had a PM who was shaking hands with people with Covid whilst these countries were ringing the alarm bells for everyone else! Boris is a twat we know that. Slovakia (just to use your first example) shut their borders to foreign nationals around the 12th March. By that time the virus in the UK was rampant in most parts of the UK especially London. Border closure may have been effective for the UK if they'd done it in February, but even then the chaos caused trying to stop tens of millions of people entering and/or leaving may have been too little too late. We need to realise that to some extent the UK were spreaders of this virus, not passive victims which is the narrative of the nationalist right throughout Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambogaza Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, vegas-voss said: All I meant was they have gone a different path from UKgov but only Sturgeon has an agenda ? Oh I'm agreeing with you, just laughing at the suggestion NS diverging on purpose to create political difference when even Arlene Foster is taking a route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 If anyone is still finding it difficult why Scotland might need to diverge from other countries, the national ONS surveillance infection prevalence estimate is about 1 in 400. The estimate in Scotland is about 1 in 200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, jambogaza said: Oh I'm agreeing with you, just laughing at the suggestion NS diverging on purpose to create political difference when even Arlene Foster is taking a route. Ah sorry for the mix-up then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said: That’s not true. It completely okay to have questions where it’s not clear that doesn’t mean they are political point scoring. for example I have a nursery age child and it says “fully outdoor nursery provision” In phase one. I really need to know what it’s happening with my kids because of work but that doesn’t help me. Does it mean the nursery she goes to is open if they only use the garden or does it mean some other type of nursery provision I don’t know about where it’s all outdoor. I need to know, I accept more details will come but I currently don’t know, it’s frustrating that I don’t know and that has nothing to do with political persuasion. I'm assuming they mean forest kindergartens, where they are outside all day. Edited May 21, 2020 by Normthebarman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said: Boris is a twat we know that. Slovakia (just to use your first example) shut their borders to foreign nationals around the 12th March. By that time the virus in the UK was rampant in most parts of the UK especially London. Border closure may have been effective for the UK if they'd done it in February, but even then the chaos caused trying to stop tens of millions of people entering and/or leaving may have been too little too late. We need to realise that to some extent the UK were spreaders of this virus, not passive victims which is the narrative of the nationalist right throughout Europe. We still haven't closed our borders. We are a country with 2 Hub airports at Heathrow and Gatwick yet we didn't consider border control worth doing, nor even doing more than "advising" people coming from China and N Italy to consider quarantining...That was what made us spreaders. We've all been locked down yet the borders remain open! We were receiving 14 daily flights from NYC when their virus was at a peak! We may as well invited people with the virus to visit! It took other countries to stop allowing flights to UK and from the UK for our airports to be affected! It is staggering... Edited May 21, 2020 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 49 minutes ago, graygo said: I'll just have to accept that we have a different outlook on things. You say the UK figures have dropped to the same level as Sweden completely ignoring the fact that theirs has risen to meet ours. Both things have happened. It's not surprising that most people hope that lockdown hasn't been in vain, that's human nature. Swedish rates have for some time been falling somewhat more slowly than the UK's from a significantly lower peak in Sweden and the UK decline has now just about caught up with Sweden in daily death rates. No-one knows which approach will look better in retrospect. I hope it is ours too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Spellczech said: We still haven't closed our borders. We are a country with 2 Hub airports at Heathrow and Gatwick yet we didn't consider border control worth doing, nor even doing more than "advising" people coming from China and N Italy to consider quarantining...That was what made us spreaders. We've all been locked down yet the borders remain open! We were receiving 14 daily flights from NYC when their virus was at a peak! We may as well invited people with the virus to visit! It took other countries to stop allowing flights to UK and from the UK for our airports to be affected! It is staggering... Agree. But the WHO advice for some time was bizarrely that international air travel was not a significant risk. They presumably hadn't seen the 2011 film Contagion which we watched on Amazon last night. Remarkably prescient and recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, Spellczech said: We still haven't closed our borders. We are a country with 2 Hub airports at Heathrow and Gatwick yet we didn't consider border control worth doing, nor even doing more than "advising" people coming from China and N Italy to consider quarantining...That was what made us spreaders. We've all been locked down yet the borders remain open! We were receiving 14 daily flights from NYC when their virus was at a peak! We may as well invited people with the virus to visit! It took other countries to stop allowing flights to UK and from the UK for our airports to be affected! It is staggering... Since the start of this crisis this has really pissed me off probably more than anything else care homes excepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 6 hours ago, Weakened Offender said: I'd be pretty disappointed if we were taking that little prick and his absurd wee mob of emptyhead teapots seriously at this precise moment in time. It would be an incredible dereliction of duty if they weren't. Don't underestimate the amount of gammon sitting at home getting noised up by youtube lies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Nationwide antibody survey estimates 5%+ have antibodies. 17% in London. No info was offered as to why there would be such a variance. 17% of London is approx 1.53m 5% of the rest is approx 2.85m 1 in 3 of all infections in London Seems odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Victorian said: Nationwide antibody survey estimates 5%+ have antibodies. 17% in London. No info was offered as to why there would be such a variance. 17% of London is approx 1.53m 5% of the rest is approx 2.85m 1 in 3 of all infections in London Seems odd. Infections spread faster in London? So antibodies did too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Francis Albert said: Sweden's cumulative deaths per capita is actually very significantly lower than the UK (for what any of these numbers are worth). You are right - Sweden has so far avoided the rate of growth and total per capita deaths we have seen in the UK and elsewhere. To the extent that was related to lock down or its absence we don't know and what the final outcome in deaths due to Covid and deaths related to the Covid epidemic and reactions to it will be … we don't know and won't know for a long time. The headline "worst death rate in the world" is meaningless and misleading. The bit in bold emphasises the point I made. Sweden and the UK had different starting positions, so there's no way that Sweden can be looked at as a controlled experiment in the herd immunity strategy, at least as far as the UK is concerned. As another poster has pointed out life in Sweden is not carrying on as normal. Also their industrial output has suffered similar falls to neighbouring countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Francis Albert said: Infections spread faster in London? So antibodies did too? Well we all understand that one follows the other. It's surprising that 1 in 3 people ever infected is in London. We knew it was the UK epicentre but by a magnitude it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, fancy a brew said: The bit in bold emphasises the point I made. Sweden and the UK had different starting positions, so there's no way that Sweden can be looked at as a controlled experiment in the herd immunity strategy, at least as far as the UK is concerned. As another poster has pointed out life in Sweden is not carrying on as normal. Also their industrial output has suffered similar falls to neighbouring countries. We both started with no deaths so don't understand your point about starting positions. And I never said Sweden was carrying on as normal. Just taking a different policy approach. Not a perfect control but better than none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 18 hours ago, Old Blue Eyes said: Talking about the beaches and prom now. Your initial question was why aren't the roads closed to these places. lets move on. The roads were in relation to access and you know that so stop being so pedantic and admit there was an issue Old blind eyes it should be if you cannot see there was an issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beni Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: We both started with no deaths so don't understand your point about starting positions. And I never said Sweden was carrying on as normal. Just taking a different policy approach. Not a perfect control but better than none. We both started with zero deaths, despite not having a lockdown Sweden had a lower R rate and death rate. If the UK hadn't had a lockdown the number of deaths would have been even more horrific. I can explain for you, but I can't understand it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 44 minutes ago, Spellczech said: We still haven't closed our borders. We are a country with 2 Hub airports at Heathrow and Gatwick yet we didn't consider border control worth doing, nor even doing more than "advising" people coming from China and N Italy to consider quarantining...That was what made us spreaders. We've all been locked down yet the borders remain open! We were receiving 14 daily flights from NYC when their virus was at a peak! We may as well invited people with the virus to visit! It took other countries to stop allowing flights to UK and from the UK for our airports to be affected! It is staggering... We obviously view it differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, pablo said: You could look at it two ways I think. To me, it looks like the First Minister has led from the front, unlike the Prime Minister. She's a very good communicator and has impressed. Or, you could say that the SNP and the Scottish Government lack depth. It's only Sturgeon we see and hear up here too. Generally speaking anyway. There hasn't been much real difference in approach in terms of the practicalities in dealing with the virus, other than the timing of coming out of lockdown. She’s also told the truth and done 59 daily updates compared to 4 that BJ has, he’s been ill for a few weeks obviously. The Scottish government has also counted care homes deaths from the start, and maintained that different areas need to be treated separately. Some Tory DM mouthpiece was saying that there’s now a train of thought that lockdown in London should be relaxed quicker than North East of England, as a trial ( they’re so eager to use folk as guinea pigs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 U-turn on the NHS foreign workers surcharge. It was absolutely sickening that it was ever imposed in the first place. Priti Patel is an evil, evil witch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 41 minutes ago, Victorian said: Nationwide antibody survey estimates 5%+ have antibodies. 17% in London. No info was offered as to why there would be such a variance. 17% of London is approx 1.53m 5% of the rest is approx 2.85m 1 in 3 of all infections in London Seems odd. I've no idea about the validity and accuracy of the survey, but I'm not surprised by the London statistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 3 hours ago, graygo said: The government took control of the supply of PPE. Yes they did, and in fact the Scottish govt. told people not to worry when PPE supply went tits up for the UK because they were sourcing their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 28 minutes ago, fancy a brew said: We both started with zero deaths, despite not having a lockdown Sweden had a lower R rate and death rate. If the UK hadn't had a lockdown the number of deaths would have been even more horrific. I can explain for you, but I can't understand it for you. Such certainty. Why aren't you on SAGE? You don't know any more than I do whether Sweden will come out of this better or worse than us. OR whether or not we would have done with the Swedish approach. Come back in a year or two and we can decide. Sweden had a lower death rate and R number because the virus struck Sweden later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Such certainty. Why aren't you on SAGE? You don't know any more than I do whether Sweden will come out of this better or worse than us. OR whether or not we would have done with the Swedish approach. Come back in a year or two and we can decide. Sweden had a lower death rate and R number because the virus struck Sweden later. You are wrong FA, KB health advisers know everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Victorian said: Well we all understand that one follows the other. It's surprising that 1 in 3 people ever infected is in London. We knew it was the UK epicentre but by a magnitude it seems. We do indeed all understand that. Since 10% of the country's population is crammed into a very small part of the country, that part has the most congestion including most commuters and most crowded public transportation systems I am not surprised it has had so many more infections. Which if the numbers are right raises the question of why London's death rates have not been so disproportionatley high. Or why London's new infection rate is apparently currently so low as in close to zero.. Edited May 21, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: We do indeed all understand that. Since 10% of the country's population is crammed into a very small part of the country, that part has the most congestion including most commuters and most crowded public transportation systems I am not surprised it has had so many more infections. Which if the numbers are right it raises the question of why London's death rates have not been so disproportionatley high. Or why London's new infection rate is apparently currently so low as in close to zero.. That must have been some kind of bum stat on the new infections. The ONS survey suggests daily UK infections of 8,700. London is approx 13% of the UK population. If london was running at the average rate then that would mean approx 1,000 daily infections. I really don't see how London's infections could have both resulted in an antibody positive rate of three times the national average and be running at very, very low current new infections. Stats eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: We do indeed all understand that. Since 10% of the country's population is crammed into a very small part of the country, that part has the most congestion including most commuters and most crowded public transportation systems I am not surprised it has had so many more infections. Which if the numbers are right raises the question of why London's death rates have not been so disproportionatley high. Or why London's new infection rate is apparently currently so low as in close to zero.. Well for a start many left London to spread it elsewhere..meaning to or not Many live outside the London area but work within it..no work, no travel, no spread in London In time work will be done to truly find out if there is a main reason...maybe Londoners were very respectful of social distancing and followed the rules Of course it could all be a conspiracy to save London whilst the rest of us simply fade away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Victorian said: That must have been some kind of bum stat on the new infections. The ONS survey suggests daily UK infections of 8,700. London is approx 13% of the UK population. If london was running at the average rate then that would mean approx 1,000 daily infections. I really don't see how London's infections could have both resulted in an antibody positive rate of three times the national average and be running at very, very low current new infections. Stats eh. I don't know but it is conceivable that there could be a link between the spread of the infection of antibodies and the rate of new infections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, Francis Albert said: I don't know but it is conceivable that there could be a link between the spread of the infection of antibodies and the rate of new infections. There would or will be, yes. Surely not yet though. 17% antibody positive is nowhere near enough to effect that degree of new infections dropping off a cliff. At a low end, the theoretical herd immunity factor for Covid was stated at 60%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, CJGJ said: Well for a start many left London to spread it elsewhere..meaning to or not Many live outside the London area but work within it..no work, no travel, no spread in London In time work will be done to truly find out if there is a main reason...maybe Londoners were very respectful of social distancing and followed the rules Of course it could all be a conspiracy to save London whilst the rest of us simply fade away The initial surge in infections and antibodies occurred before lock down and was concentrated in London In fact that initial surge was the reason for lock down. As a Londoner I don't think we respected lock down differently from the rest of the country. Most did. Some didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: The initial surge in infections and antibodies occurred before lock down and was concentrated in London In fact that initial surge was the reason for lock down. As a Londoner I don't think we respected lock down differently from the rest of the country. Most did. Some didn't. Well that leaves us with the conspiracy theory FA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said: You are wrong FA, KB health advisers know everything. People keep saying this sort of thing as if we are all being wise in hindsight - I was on the Daily Mail site hammering home the need to lockdown in early March; questioning the PPE situation in early March; mentioning the problems with all the hospital patients being moved to care homes without testing before any journalist reported on it...I'm not a scientist, but I do have some inside knowledge from people I know in the NHS including my wife. If the man on the street knew all this then why did the scientists and Govt not? The Govt and SAGE are throwing out lots of excuses about science changing etc but the truth is that plenty of people were asking questions when they were doing nothing... I'll happily admit that I thought Covid was flu-like and a storm in a teacup back in January. Perhaps Shaun will one day find and repost those! By February I'd learned otherwise just from observation...People whose JOB it was to know better should've recognised the truth way before me... You know that guy who was convicted a couple of days ago for trying to do an HMRC phishing scam. I got that email and reported him to HMRC at the end of January... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Spellczech said: People keep saying this sort of thing as if we are all being wise in hindsight - I was on the Daily Mail site hammering home the need to lockdown in early March; questioning the PPE situation in early March; mentioning the problems with all the hospital patients being moved to care homes without testing before any journalist reported on it...I'm not a scientist, but I do have some inside knowledge from people I know in the NHS including my wife. If the man on the street knew all this then why did the scientists and Govt not? The Govt and SAGE are throwing out lots of excuses about science changing etc but the truth is that plenty of people were asking questions when they were doing nothing... I'll happily admit that I thought Covid was flu-like and a storm in a teacup back in January. Perhaps Shaun will one day find and repost those! By February I'd learned otherwise just from observation...People whose JOB it was to know better should've recognised the truth way before me... You know that guy who was convicted a couple of days ago for trying to do an HMRC phishing scam. I got that email and reported him to HMRC at the end of January... Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 The Scottish government has identified four phases for easing the restrictions: Phase 1: Virus not yet contained but cases are falling. From 28 May you should be able to meet another household outside in small numbers. Sunbathing is allowed, along with some outdoor activities like golf and fishing. Garden centres and drive-through takeaways can reopen, some outdoor work can resume, and childminding services can begin. Phase 2: Virus controlled. You can meet larger groups outdoors, and meet another household indoors. Construction, factories, warehouses, laboratories and small shops can resume work. Playgrounds and sports courts can reopen, and professional sport can begin again. Phase 3: Virus suppressed. You can meet people from more than one household indoors. Non-essential offices would reopen, along with gyms, museums, libraries, cinemas, larger shops, pubs, restaurants, hairdressers and dentists. Live events could take place with restricted numbers and physical distancing restrictions. Schools should reopen from 11 August. Phase 4: Virus no longer a significant threat. University and college campuses can reopen in full, mass gatherings are allowed. All workplaces open and public transport is back at full capacity. The situation will be reviewed every three weeks, with further phases of easing being introduced if enough progress is being made on keeping the virus under control. However, Ms Sturgeon said she hoped to be able to move more quickly than that if the evidence allows. She described the first steps as "proportionate and suitably cautious", and said they were intended to "bring some improvement to people's wellbeing and quality of life, start to get our economy moving again, and start to steer us safely towards a new normality". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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