'New Stand update'.well an update

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

You absolutely can't be impartial here, since you did work on the stand yourself. The stand is nearly TEN MILLION POUNDS over budget. That is absolutely shambolic.

 

You'd think for that extra £10m, the fan area would be more than corrugated iron and plasterboard.

My company carried out the glazed facade but that doesn’t stop me being impartial on the reason for the cost over run.

I am just giving you some of the background on what transpired during the building of the new stand.

 

PS there is no corrugated iron in the new stand.

[jake]

7 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

New stand oot!! 

Hardly and that shit is annoying .

Have you forgot where we were ?

Come on thought a guy like you would be into healthy discussion about this.

[jake]

6 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

It’s a valuable asset! I hope it’s well insured  including cover for loss of business! Imagine if it burnt down and it wasn’t insured 😮 and funds had to be found to rebuild it!

 

[Thomaso]

7 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

It’s a valuable asset! I hope it’s well insured  including cover for loss of business! Imagine if it burnt down and it wasn’t insured 😮 and funds had to be found to rebuild it!

Yes just imagine! 😂

[Thomaso]

4 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I'm struggling to find another instance where a club owner passed a lucrative construction contract to a family member before revealing the cost was going to be double the original estimate. Can you provide me with one?

 

In todays money, it cost Hibs £11m to rebuild their West Stand. Perhaps someone could tell me what makes ours worth an additional £11m?

 

 

Firstly AB brother was only in charge of the internal fit out - he had nothing to do with managing the demolitions, groundwork’s, steel structure, facade, roof, etc.

 

To answer your question if we had only build a stand like our Wheatfield (or at ER) with the dressing rooms, etc, in the under Croft the cost may well have been around £11m.

Instead we built that with the addition of a f******* big box housing 5 corporate suites, Club Shop, Fans bar, offices, nursery - and a Plaza.

Hope that explains.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Thomaso

[Bazzas right boot]

19 minutes ago, jake said:

Hardly and that shit is annoying .

Have you forgot where we were ?

Come on thought a guy like you would be into healthy discussion about this.

 

 

If we were 3rd or 4th no one would be bothered. 

 

Folk getting angry about this because they can. 

 

The stand is much better than the old one, it will make money. 

That's what I care about. 

 

Others can crack on and decide what went wrong and who they want sacked. 

 

It's boring tbh, I'll bail out, stick to the threads about fitba'. 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Firstly AB brother was only in charge of the internal fit out - he had nothing to do with managing the demolitions, groundwork’s, steel structure, facade, roof, etc.

 

To answer your question if we had only build a stand like our Wheatfield (or at ER) with the dressing rooms, etc, in the under Croft the cost may well have been around £11m.

Instead we built that with the addition of a f******* big box housing 5 corporate suites, Club Shop, Fans bar, offices, nursery - and a Plaza.

Hope that explains.

 

It does. 

Museum as well? 

[jake]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

If we were 3rd or 4th no one would be bothered. 

 

Folk getting angry about this because they can. 

 

The stand is much better than the old one, it will make money. 

That's what I care about. 

 

Others can crack on and decide what went wrong and who they want sacked. 

 

It's boring tbh, I'll bail out, stick to the threads about fitba'. 

Probably right .

But we are not.

 

We were flying under Romanov just to remind you.

 

Anyway be bored and leave the likes of me to shape the future ........

 

 

Haha mate now yer interested 😄👍

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, jake said:

Probably right .

But we are not.

 

We were flying under Romanov just to remind you.

 

Anyway be bored and leave the likes of me to shape the future ........

 

 

Haha mate now yer interested 😄👍

 

Almost, not my thing. 

Unlike on things football, I'm a bit clueless with regards to the costs of building stands. 😉

[obua]

6 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

It does. 

Museum as well? 

And the staff offices and changing rooms under the wheatfield  stand, we have also built the memorial garden.

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, obua said:

And the staff offices and changing rooms under the wheatfield  stand, we have also built the memorial garden.

 

It's a thing of beauty ( at our level). 

Compared to hibs, Aberdeen even rangers it's a sexy ****er. 

 

The upgrade on the old lady is 100 fold, but folk moan. 

Their eyes must be painted on. 

[TheTrumpet]

2 hours ago, Armageddon said:

In a very simple way as I’m watching the SAS programme.

 

- You have land and want to build a house

- You submit your planning application with a design and expected build cost

- You start building the house and you make changes along the way when you come to pick very specific design features, fixtures and fittings, the design could also be expanded.

- Bear in mind we also had an additional floor never really specc’d for anything and now it’s being fitted out with the costs never taken into consideration until it was decided.

I'm sorry but this is a laughable explanation. No large infrastructure project is made up on the hoof. Fantasy.

 

It was poorly thought out and poorly executed.

[TheTrumpet]

48 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

It's a thing of beauty ( at our level). 

Compared to hibs, Aberdeen even rangers it's a sexy ****er. 

 

The upgrade on the old lady is 100 fold, but folk moan. 

Their eyes must be painted on. 

No one is saying it's not a nice stand, rather is it value for money. The answer to that is no it's not.

[Armageddon]

6 hours ago, TheTrumpet said:

I'm sorry but this is a laughable explanation. No large infrastructure project is made up on the hoof. Fantasy.

 

It was poorly thought out and poorly executed.

Hahaha so you think from the day a design is pulled together to the final product - both always match 100%?? Hahaha jeezo

[77Mackay77]

6 hours ago, TheTrumpet said:

I'm sorry but this is a laughable explanation. No large infrastructure project is made up on the hoof. Fantasy.

 

It was poorly thought out and poorly executed.

It’s not laughable, it’s just fact and as been stated by the club publicly. 

 

What is laughable is your refusal to read the facts as stated by the club 

 

A budget was quoted before a spade was in the ground and between then and now the plans were changed and upgraded to add more features than were in the original budget. Additional features not in the original budget figure include things like the fan bar and another hospitality lounge.

 

And for the last time because i’m bored having to keep explaining this, the figure of £24-25m is for total infrastructure investment and not just the new stand so covers the rest of the ground, the plaza, memorial garden, the pitch etc.

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

6 hours ago, TheTrumpet said:

I'm sorry but this is a laughable explanation. No large infrastructure project is made up on the hoof. Fantasy.

 

It was poorly thought out and poorly executed.

On the subject of things being poorly thought out and executed, do you concede that your statement about the new stand not increasing capacity was wholly inaccurate?

[sam?]

10 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

On the subject of things being poorly thought out and executed, do you concede that your statement about the new stand not increasing capacity was wholly inaccurate?

 

8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

It's a thing of beauty ( at our level). 

Compared to hibs, Aberdeen even rangers it's a sexy ****er. 

 

The upgrade on the old lady is 100 fold, but folk moan. 

Their eyes must be painted on. 

There are several big faux pas with the stand namely the press areas and director box being in the wrong places due to access and egress for directors and weather for the press, hardly unknown factors?  These are basic design errors that have not been fully thought through by the architects and somehow signed off by project administration.  The glass curtain was also binned in favour of the eastern bloc facade we have went with, allegedly due to spiralling costs? (Quite ironic) If the glass curtain was in original tender Then removed due to cost, the original net cost would fall and therefore the overspend is even more. No private hospitality boxes is something that no other new modern stand I have ever known of has  being built without regardless of licensing laws (this will change eventually). A stand also built with no tv studio is another strange one ? Huge new facility and housing a broadcasting team in a scaffolded area, resulting in a need to give up seats and restricted  viewing for customers, this needing revised and  added as an extra is another criminal design error.
 

I sit in centre of section E In the wheatfield stand and although the stand from a atmospheric and visual perspective looks great there are things that make it look amateurish at best I.e. the directors sitting at the back and the top row not having box’s except one double glazed area for the tv studio which looks stupidly isolated but shows it is possible to install the glazed area opposed to the shiny foiled backing thing we look at just now.

[soonbe110]

9 hours ago, Hungry hippo said:

 

Why do you think we will be debt free at handover? Do you believe the debt to Ann Budge, which she confirmed at the AGM, will be written off or are you stating this because this was the initial goal?

 

As far as I know FF is correct that the recent loan will still be due.

 

Just to add that I am pro Budge and think we are lucky to have her on board. That doesn't mean that there haven't been mistakes though.

I just don’t believe she will leave us with debt. 

[Sarah O]

The stand is a massive improvement on the old main stand and completes Tynie. 

 

 

 

[soonbe110]

8 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

If we were 3rd or 4th no one would be bothered. 

 

Folk getting angry about this because they can. 

 

The stand is much better than the old one, it will make money. 

That's what I care about. 

 

Others can crack on and decide what went wrong and who they want sacked. 

 

It's boring tbh, I'll bail out, stick to the threads about fitba'. 

Good post 

[Sarah O]

Or...

 

 

[highlandjambo3]

13 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:

The most exciting bit I take out of all of this is this.

 

”“I would have liked to have pressed the button in January but, with everything else that has gone on, I can’t see that happening much before the end of the season.“

 

Says to me that funds are being diverted to the Stendel fighting fund!!

You mean a war chest?

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, sam? said:

The glass curtain was also binned in favour of the eastern bloc facade we have went with, allegedly due to spiralling costs? (Quite ironic) If the glass curtain was in original tender Then removed due to cost, the original net cost would fall and therefore the overspend is even more. 

 

 

You are correct with some of your comments regarding design errors by the Architect.

If I may I’d like to give you some clarification on why we ended up with an “eastern bloc facade.

The glass curtain you refer to was shown on computer generated images stupidly released by the Architect at a very early stage before practicalities were discussed and examined.

If you look back on the previous new stand thread you will see that this design was totally impractical from a construction point of view, it would not meet the building regs, or the tight programme, or the cost plan.

After consultation with the Club and Architect the “eastern block” glass facade was the best option to meet the limited budget for that part of the project.

[Prof]

7 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

You are correct with some of your comments regarding design errors by the Architect.

If I may I’d like to give you some clarification on why we ended up with an “eastern bloc facade.

The glass curtain you refer to was shown on computer generated images stupidly released by the Architect at a very early stage before practicalities were discussed and examined.

If you look back on the previous new stand thread you will see that this design was totally impractical from a construction point of view, it would not meet the building regs, or the tight programme, or the cost plan.

After consultation with the Club and Architect the “eastern block” glass facade was the best option to meet the limited budget for that part of the project.

You have made some good comments and excellent explanations for the rise in infrastructure costs. Unfortunately that won’t go down well with the moaners and Hibbies on here.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Sarah O said:

The stand is a massive improvement on the old main stand and completes Tynie. 

 

 

 

Some seem to be comparing the cost of the ER stand with ours.

They seem to forget that we have built an additional ‘glass’ block attached to the rear of the stand to house the lounges, nursery, offices, fans bar, shop, etc.

[ramrod]

55 minutes ago, TheTrumpet said:

What's laughable is watching you and your chums turn into Comical Ali trying to defend an almighty f*#k up. 12 million quids worth of 'extras' on a 12 million build? 

 

Laughable and ill thought through. There's none so blind as those who choose not to see. 

For the record your post are the funniest on this thread by a country mile . 

Your last paragraph sums  up your contribution to this thread perfectly. 

Do continue. 

[Bazzas right boot]

9 hours ago, TheTrumpet said:

No one is saying it's not a nice stand, rather is it value for money. The answer to that is no it's not.

 

Why not? 

 

How do you know it's not value for money? 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

13 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Why not? 

 

How do you know it's not value for money? 

 

I don’t know much about the cost of these things but for a club of our size and our revenue, £20m on a single stand seems like a hell of a lot of money.

[Taffin]

10 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

It's a thing of beauty ( at our level). 

Compared to hibs, Aberdeen even rangers it's a sexy ****er. 

 

The upgrade on the old lady is 100 fold, but folk moan. 

Their eyes must be painted on. 

 

The old stand was much more aesthetically pleasing imo, but that is subjective of course.

 

I notice earlier you stated that it will make money and that's all you care about. Is that actually true? At what point will it start to make profit?

Edited January 6, 2020 by Taffin

[Thomaso]

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The old stand was much more aesthetically pleasing imo, but that is subjective of course.

 

I notice earlier you stated that it will make money and that's all you care about. Is that actually true? At what point will it start to make profit?

So you would rather that we retained the old stand? The one with obstructed views?

The one that we struggled to get a safety certificate for? The one that cost us thousands for repair and maintenance?

[sam?]

1 hour ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

You are correct with some of your comments regarding design errors by the Architect.

If I may I’d like to give you some clarification on why we ended up with an “eastern bloc facade.

The glass curtain you refer to was shown on computer generated images stupidly released by the Architect at a very early stage before practicalities were discussed and examined.

If you look back on the previous new stand thread you will see that this design was totally impractical from a construction point of view, it would not meet the building regs, or the tight programme, or the cost plan.

After consultation with the Club and Architect the “eastern block” glass facade was the best option to meet the limited budget for that part of the project.

It may have been totally impractical for the curtain design however there is many examples in Edinburgh of classic glass frontage without the curtain style; the festival theatre and omni centre both look excellent glass facades to name two, that have done so without the council look. 
 

thanks for the feedback, we’re you involved in the project? 

[Taffin]

Just now, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

So you would rather that we retained the old stand? The one with obstructed views?

The one that we struggled to get a safety certificate for? The one that cost us thousands for repair and maintenance?

 

I'd just like to point out that you have used a Strawman argument. I'm not sure how you deduce that from finding the older one better looking and asking when the new one will make money.

 

 

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, sam? said:

It may have been totally impractical for the curtain design however there is many examples in Edinburgh of classic glass frontage without the curtain style; the festival theatre and omni centre both look excellent glass facades to name two, that have done so without the council look. 
 

thanks for the feedback, we’re you involved in the project? 

Yes my company installed the “council look’ facade. 😉

Good examples of other buildings by the way - my company installed both glass facades on the buildings you mentioned. 🙂

These facades were a ‘bolted glass’ construction and at an expense that was way out of reach for the budget we were given for the Tynecastle job.

Also a bolted glass construction would not meet the building regs on the specific Tynecastle project.

 

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'd just like to point out that you have used a Strawman argument. I'm not sure how you deduce that from finding the older one better looking and asking when the new one will make money.

 

 

Do you mean an operational profit or when will it break even?

[Thomaso]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'd just like to point out that you have used a Strawman argument. I'm not sure how you deduce that from finding the older one better looking and asking when the new one will make money.

 

 

You said you found the old stand more aesthetically pleasing - by that I deduced you would have preferred to retain it.

As for making money from the enlarged facilities, the name of the game is to fill the corporate lounges - that is dependant on having a successful team on the park.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Thomaso

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Do you mean an operational profit or when will it break even?

 

Don't know, it was another poster who said it will make money (to me that would be profit) but he may have meant otherwise.

[Ray Gin]

On 04/01/2020 at 23:00, Herbert said:

Got to be honest for 22m it's pretty underwhelming.

 

Indeed.

 

[Ray Gin]

32 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The old stand was much more aesthetically pleasing imo, but that is subjective of course.

 

 

Very subjective, it was a dilapidated eyesore IMO.

 

[Bad Religion]

9 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Yes my company installed the “council look’ facade. 😉

Good examples of other buildings by the way - my company installed both glass facades on the buildings you mentioned. 🙂

These facades were a ‘bolted glass’ construction and at an expense that was way out of reach for the budget we were given for the Tynecastle job.

Also a bolted glass construction would not meet the building regs on the specific Tynecastle project.

 

 

Are referring to Part L of the building regs?

 

If so, can you please expand on why the OC and FT were able to comply with this and our new stand couldn't? Could the installation of renewables for example been used to offset the need for the thermal panels? 

[Bull's-eye]

Think I preferred the Levein oot chat, at least that was justified.

 

This thread ain't.

[sam?]

19 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Yes my company installed the “council look’ facade. 😉

Good examples of other buildings by the way - my company installed both glass facades on the buildings you mentioned. 🙂

These facades were a ‘bolted glass’ construction and at an expense that was way out of reach for the budget we were given for the Tynecastle job.

Also a bolted glass construction would not meet the building regs on the specific Tynecastle project.

 

Thanks again for the info, good on your company for the two examples which look excellent by the way. I suppose with Tynecastle your company can only fit out what it is commissioned to do, as a side note is there any other option that could've looked more aesthetically pleasing and fit cost constraints? My heart sinks a little when I drive up/down McLeod Street and Tynecastle Park looks more like a school than the school across the road.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

13 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

No, majority has come from benefactors, Budge and clubs working capital. 

What has Ann contributed financially? Where does the club's working capital come from?

[Thomaso]

8 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Are referring to Part L of the building regs?

 

If so, can you please expand on why the OC and FT were able to comply with this and our new stand couldn't? Could the installation of renewables for example been used to offset the need for the thermal panels? 

I did explain these issues in detail on the previous new stand thread.

Compliance with Barrier Loads in a football stadium was one issue as well as U value compliance.

[Thomaso]

20 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Very subjective, it was a dilapidated eyesore IMO.

 

That was my opinion too - I thought the “old lady” chat was a bit meh TBH, however it’s all about personal opinions.

[Wonfiveone]

19 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

 

Are referring to Part L of the building regs?

 

If so, can you please expand on why the OC and FT were able to comply with this and our new stand couldn't? Could the installation of renewables for example been used to offset the need for the thermal panels? 
 

Part L relates to the English Building Regulations. Scotland has its own standards.

 

[DalryJambo]

3 hours ago, sam? said:

 

There are several big faux pas with the stand namely the press areas and director box being in the wrong places due to access and egress for directors and weather for the press, hardly unknown factors?  These are basic design errors that have not been fully thought through by the architects and somehow signed off by project administration.  The glass curtain was also binned in favour of the eastern bloc facade we have went with, allegedly due to spiralling costs? (Quite ironic) If the glass curtain was in original tender Then removed due to cost, the original net cost would fall and therefore the overspend is even more. No private hospitality boxes is something that no other new modern stand I have ever known of has  being built without regardless of licensing laws (this will change eventually). A stand also built with no tv studio is another strange one ? Huge new facility and housing a broadcasting team in a scaffolded area, resulting in a need to give up seats and restricted  viewing for customers, this needing revised and  added as an extra is another criminal design error.
 

I sit in centre of section E In the wheatfield stand and although the stand from a atmospheric and visual perspective looks great there are things that make it look amateurish at best I.e. the directors sitting at the back and the top row not having box’s except one double glazed area for the tv studio which looks stupidly isolated but shows it is possible to install the glazed area opposed to the shiny foiled backing thing we look at just now.

I don’t have time to go back on all your points but the corporate box issue is a complete red herring. Just because other people have it doesn’t mean we need to have the same. Given the current laws in this country you can’t have people being seen to drink alcohol during a game and these boxes are therefore somewhat redundant. We have facilities they just don’t overlook the pitch. 
 

I also remember that adding a row of boxes in the middle of the stand significantly increases the cost of the stand given the small footprint and height restrictions in place. Even a row at the back was prohibitive. 

[Thomaso]

22 minutes ago, sam? said:

Thanks again for the info, good on your company for the two examples which look excellent by the way. I suppose with Tynecastle your company can only fit out what it is commissioned to do, as a side note is there any other option that could've looked more aesthetically pleasing and fit cost constraints? My heart sinks a little when I drive up/down McLeod Street and Tynecastle Park looks more like a school than the school across the road.

 

 

After consideration of the cost, programme and building regs a framed curtain wall system was deemed to be the best option.

For what it’s worth I thought the Architects choice of a grey colour was a bit unimaginative TBH. 

[Taffin]

46 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Very subjective, it was a dilapidated eyesore IMO.

 

 

It was certainly dilapidated, no arguments there. I preferred the design of it though. I don't really like the appearance of the new stand...but as I say, that's just my opinion. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

The old stand was much more aesthetically pleasing imo, but that is subjective of course.

 

I notice earlier you stated that it will make money and that's all you care about. Is that actually true? At what point will it start to make profit?

 

The old stand was great but an utter shite hole and not suitable for modern football. 

 

I have no idea when, but revenue has already sk rocketed so we can revisit this in a few years. 

 

A very basic example is that there are far more premium season tickets as well as an increased capacity v the old stand. 

I don't know the pay back time, but most projects I've been involved in go along with 3 or 5 years. 

[Pans Jambo]

A handy FAQ for those hard of thinking...

 

Are we staying at our home in Gorgie - Yes

Do we have a new main stand - Yes

Is it over the initial budget - Yes

Are we in a lot of debt because of it - No

Will it generate additional income for the club - Yes

Is it better than any other club's main stand in Scotland - Hampden apart and IMO - Yes.

Will the last floor be completed when we have funds to do so - Yes

Why are folk pissing and moaning about it then - Feckd if I know!