FruitJuice Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, The Natural Order said: No idea but the Leitch family were not. I was joking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, davemclaren said: No. Why didn't you ask the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 40 minutes ago, davemclaren said: Has anyone actually asked FoH the question? I started to correspond with them. We left it over the holidays. Like I've said before I feel well out my depth. I've tried to look into competitive costs etc. To be honest I dont want to cause trouble even though that's not my intention.So it's kind of stopped me getting back in touch. But for this too work I do think it's important we all feel good about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Why didn't you ask the question? I didn’t want to upstage you. 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coburg Hearts Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 37 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I think you just have. 🤷🏼♂️ I hope it's sine die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitJuice Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, jake said: I started to correspond with them. We left it over the holidays. Like I've said before I feel well out my depth. I've tried to look into competitive costs etc. To be honest I dont want to cause trouble even though that's not my intention.So it's kind of stopped me getting back in touch. But for this too work I do think it's important we all feel good about it. It's these sort of things that could leave a bad taste when it comes to Budge's legacy. She should've just put the tender out some hadvmire options. Not doing so and giving it to a family member is going to leave nepotism accusations open. It was the fans money being spent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FruitJuice Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Coburg Hearts said: I hope it's sine die. Meow! You want a saucer of milk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 hour ago, 1953 said: Did anybody ask this question at the AGM. There was a lot of talk about it on the AGM thread but does anybody have an answer and I've missed it? I did not attend (it would have meant a round trip of over 800 miles and a few hundred quid to do so). Aplologies for, as CJGJ would say, "not doing my homework". It was not really a question that should have needed to be asked. The biggest by far capital project (or any single spend) in Hearts near 150 year history and no explanation was offered for the doubling of cost against the original cost estimate. Instead it is left for the apologists and extreme loyalists to just make things up … there was no overspend!. Or the basic stand in the original budget was simply the starter basic shell for the various add -ons to complete it. At the end of the day while Ann owns over 90% of the club (until June at least) she need be no more transparent and open (despite early praise she received) than previous owners. That better change when FoH takes majority ownership. Or else FoH will soon become a clique of founder members, their mates, and their fan boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: I did not attend (it would have meant a round trip of over 800 miles and a few hundred quid to do so). Aplologies for, as CJGJ would say, "not doing my homework". It was not really a question that should have needed to be asked. The biggest by far capital project (or any single spend) in Hearts near 150 year history and no explanation was offered for the doubling of cost against the original cost estimate. Instead it is left for the apologists and extreme loyalists to just make things up … there was no overspend!. Or the basic stand in the original budget was simply the starter basic shell for the various add -ons to complete it. At the end of the day while Ann owns over 90% of the club (until June at least) she need be no more transparent and open (despite early praise she received) than previous owners. That better change when FoH takes majority ownership. Or else FoH will soon become a clique of founder members, their mates, and their fan boys. It’s certainly not an unreasonable request to get a high level breakdown of planned v actual spend but whether that would satisfy everyone is another matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Why didn't you ask the question? I had hoped that someone else would have asked about the breakdown of costs. I made comment at the AGM about the the change to the usual slide showing the breakdown of the sources of funding. It was also my questions that elicited the £21.6m spend to date and the planned £1.5m outstanding fit out cost for the second floor. I have also emailed the club requesting that a copy of the minutes of the AGM and a copy of the slides be published on the website. I've had no response and there is still nothing on the website. As a PLC, I believe that the club has a duty to shareholders to at least publish the AGM minutes which would include the results of any votes taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot since 86 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: I did not attend (it would have meant a round trip of over 800 miles and a few hundred quid to do so). Aplologies for, as CJGJ would say, "not doing my homework". It was not really a question that should have needed to be asked. The biggest by far capital project (or any single spend) in Hearts near 150 year history and no explanation was offered for the doubling of cost against the original cost estimate. Instead it is left for the apologists and extreme loyalists to just make things up … there was no overspend!. Or the basic stand in the original budget was simply the starter basic shell for the various add -ons to complete it. At the end of the day while Ann owns over 90% of the club (until June at least) she need be no more transparent and open (despite early praise she received) than previous owners. That better change when FoH takes majority ownership. Or else FoH will soon become a clique of founder members, their mates, and their fan boys. Spot on FA, excellent post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot since 86 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: I had hoped that someone else would have asked about the breakdown of costs. I made comment at the AGM about the the change to the usual slide showing the breakdown of the sources of funding. It was also my questions that elicited the £21.6m spend to date and the planned £1.5m outstanding fit out cost for the second floor. I have also emailed the club requesting that a copy of the minutes of the AGM and a copy of the slides be published on the website. I've had no response and there is still nothing on the website. As a PLC, I believe that the club has a duty to shareholders to at least publish the AGM minutes which would include the results of any votes taken. Yes they will have to make all minutes available along with any Q&A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 21 million is a lot of money for a stand. Something is not right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Always seemed too cheap to begin with. 23m sounds about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 16 hours ago, Ibrahim Tall said: As annoying as it being ‘double’ is, £12m was never realistic in a million years. It was idiotic to even mention that figure like it was a fact. I’ve been part of projects at work that consisted of little more than a meeting room and a showroom that were budgeted over a £1m. A bleeping football stand for thousands of people including offices, changing rooms, restaurants etc was never going to be 7 or 8x that figure. Nobody as far as I am aware forced AB into coming out with any figures so it is entirely of her own making this scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Heres my point of view.... I dont give a feck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrumpet Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, jr ewing said: Always seemed too cheap to begin with. 23m sounds about right. 😂😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 25 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: I did not attend (it would have meant a round trip of over 800 miles and a few hundred quid to do so). Aplologies for, as CJGJ would say, "not doing my homework". It was not really a question that should have needed to be asked. The biggest by far capital project (or any single spend) in Hearts near 150 year history and no explanation was offered for the doubling of cost against the original cost estimate. Instead it is left for the apologists and extreme loyalists to just make things up … there was no overspend!. Or the basic stand in the original budget was simply the starter basic shell for the various add -ons to complete it. At the end of the day while Ann owns over 90% of the club (until June at least) she need be no more transparent and open (despite early praise she received) than previous owners. That better change when FoH takes majority ownership. Or else FoH will soon become a clique of founder members, their mates, and their fan boys. Your second last para sums up the situation completely. She has told us what she has done with the club she owns. All that’s required of her is actually a lot less than she has told us. For a club that is 87.5% owned by one individual the transparency of what’s been going on, what’s been spent and on what has been much greater than the last three owners we have had. The question really is what happens with any projects of significance after FoH owns the shares but not the running of the business. That’s when we really need much more scrutiny of plans and actual spending. Fortunately there’s unlikely to be another project of the anything like the same scale in most of our lifetimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 25 minutes ago, davemclaren said: It’s certainly not an unreasonable request to get a high level breakdown of planned v actual spend but whether that would satisfy everyone is another matter. Of course it would not have satisfied everyone. I would hope it would be more convincing than some of the explanations on here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 26 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: I had hoped that someone else would have asked about the breakdown of costs. I made comment at the AGM about the the change to the usual slide showing the breakdown of the sources of funding. It was also my questions that elicited the £21.6m spend to date and the planned £1.5m outstanding fit out cost for the second floor. I have also emailed the club requesting that a copy of the minutes of the AGM and a copy of the slides be published on the website. I've had no response and there is still nothing on the website. As a PLC, I believe that the club has a duty to shareholders to at least publish the AGM minutes which would include the results of any votes taken. Only before the next agm though so a good few months left. Best practise would have the minutes out very shortly though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 14 minutes ago, Rods said: 21 million is a lot of money for a stand. Something is not right here. That’s because it wasn’t just for the stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Of course it would not have satisfied everyone. I would hope it would be more convincing than some of the explanations on here! One would certainly hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, wavydavy said: Nobody as far as I am aware forced AB into coming out with any figures so it is entirely of her own making this scenario. Yes, but she owns the company and she is comfortable with the spend and the stand so what’s the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, soonbe110 said: Yes, but she owns the company and she is comfortable with the spend and the stand so what’s the problem? No problem if she doesn't give a shit about the fans who have contributed millions to the cost of the new stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock _turd Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Well for me, at least, it is not about how much it costs... is it value for money? If it is then it is money well spent! It is too easy to blow this out of proportion. Now where is that Rankord headline about the overspend at greyskull???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: That’s because it wasn’t just for the stand. £23m and counting for what was aleays described as "stadium redevelopment" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 1 minute ago, soonbe110 said: Yes, but she owns the company and she is comfortable with the spend and the stand so what’s the problem? Who said there was a problem? It just makes her look a bit stupid when she states a figure and then it looks to be almost double. Yes she currently owns the company but it will be FOH soon and she has wasted a lot of money that could have been utilised elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Money well spent. Anybody trying to kick up a shirt storm about this are clueless to the building game. Haters gonna hate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, jock _turd said: Well for me, at least, it is not about how much it costs... is it value for money? If it is then it is money well spent! It is too easy to blow this out of proportion. Now where is that Rankord headline about the overspend at greyskull???? I think value for money and cost are related! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Francis Albert said: £23m and counting for what was aleays described as "stadium redevelopment" Yes, I was just letting the other poster know that the money was spent in more than the new stand. He seemed to think it was. Sorry for trying to help the understanding of another poster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 All the Hobos appearing again demanding answers 😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock _turd Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, Francis Albert said: I think value for money and cost are related! And I think you are nothing but a shit stirrer and have been from day one of AB and FOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, wavydavy said: Who said there was a problem? It just makes her look a bit stupid when she states a figure and then it looks to be almost double. Yes she currently owns the company but it will be FOH soon and she has wasted a lot of money that could have been utilised elsewhere. How much? Think earlier in the thread there was a rough level of agreement that the ‘real’ overspend is £2-3m against what it was always realistically going to cost plus the extras there were added in along the way eg the pitch and plant room. Our benefactors pitched in more than the ‘real’ overspend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: Yes, I was just letting the other poster know that the money was spent in more than the new stand. He seemed to think it was. Sorry for trying to help the understanding of another poster. Ok apologieso. But £23m is a lot for stadium redevelopment budgeted at £11m plus £1m contingency for overspend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: How much? Think earlier in the thread there was a rough level of agreement that the ‘real’ overspend is £2-3m against what it was always realistically going to cost plus the extras there were added in along the way eg the pitch and plant room. Our benefactors pitched in more than the ‘real’ overspend. I missed that rough level of agreement TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: No problem if she doesn't give a shit about the fans who have contributed millions to the cost of the new stand. How many millions have the fans contributed? How many fans are unhappy with the new stand? How many fans are unhappy that we are staying at tynie? is she going to leave us with any debt when she hands the club over? Why are you such a moaning- faced guy about the club you supposedly love? Everyone on jkb knows you don’t like what she has done with the stand. Just leave it there and give us all a bit of peace. Alternatively if you think some shady dealings have been done, as you continually deny but regularly raise the question, then take it to the lady herself or even a higher authority. If you feel that strongly about it don’t use an 800 mile round trip as a lousy excuse for hiding behind your keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebles jambo Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Can quite easily believe that the price has nearly doubled, you just have to look at the ridiculous parliament building 40 times over budget the trams as well, so no surprise there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morph Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: How much? Think earlier in the thread there was a rough level of agreement that the ‘real’ overspend is £2-3m against what it was always realistically going to cost plus the extras there were added in along the way eg the pitch and plant room. Our benefactors pitched in more than the ‘real’ overspend. Are you for real? The real over spend is only 2m because a stand that size “should cost about 18m”? Why should it cost 18m, because some random on kickback said so? Why not 25m or 30 and we can say it’s under budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just now, peebles jambo said: Can quite easily believe that the price has nearly doubled, you just have to look at the ridiculous parliament building 40 times over budget the trams as well, so no surprise there The fact that people were woefully underqualified to deal with these contracts, does not excuse an experienced Business Woman making the same mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: How many millions have the fans contributed? How many fans are unhappy with the new stand? How many fans are unhappy that we are staying at tynie? is she going to leave us with any debt when she hands the club over? Why are you such a moaning- faced guy about the club you supposedly love? Everyone on jkb knows you don’t like what she has done with the stand. Just leave it there and give us all a bit of peace. Alternatively if you think some shady dealings have been done, as you continually deny but regularly raise the question, then take it to the lady herself or even a higher authority. If you feel that strongly about it don’t use an 800 mile round trip as a lousy excuse for hiding behind your keyboard. On your first question, for the new stand about £6m in FOH contributions alone.. For the rest ... fume away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: I missed that rough level of agreement TBH. No surprise there. It was on either this thread or the agm thread. Edited January 5, 2020 by soonbe110 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: No surprise there. No because it never existed! (And you later edit doesn't change that.) Edited January 5, 2020 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnybob72 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just think how many absolute duds we could have signed up on 3 or 4 year deals with the additional £11m? While the stand completes the ground nicely and keeps us in Gorgie - which is what most people cared most about - questions should be asked about how you can be 100% out with the estimated cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Anyone who thinks THAT is a £21m stand hasn't been in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallan Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Sitting here in Aberdeen and listening to the discussion on the ‘finished’ training ground and the maybe new stadium and £50m still to be spent I think there is a reason to be pretty happy with where we are and AB has to take huge credit for that. Have we over spent, I don’t know but the cost to buy the shares remains the same as far as I’m aware so it could be that FOH will get a lot more value for their investment than was expected. Onwards and upwards for me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudeskaboyuk Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Imagine we got Vlad's new 40 million stand and hotel complex and it went over budget to 85 million ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, soonbe110 said: How much? Think earlier in the thread there was a rough level of agreement that the ‘real’ overspend is £2-3m against what it was always realistically going to cost plus the extras there were added in along the way eg the pitch and plant room. Our benefactors pitched in more than the ‘real’ overspend. Why did she not just say what "it was always realistically going to cost" in the first place then. If a project comes in anywhere near the original budget or even close to it after taking into account contingencies then nobody really takes any great notice. It is always great news for the media to have a go when they see an opportunity such as AB has gievn them. That was all I was trying to point out. She didn't have to reveal any figures at the outset but she did and now it is being made to look negative when it shouldn't be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, rudeskaboyuk said: Imagine we got Vlad's new 40 million stand and hotel complex and it went over budget to 85 million ! "Overspend" if you be so kind. Do try and keep up. Edited January 5, 2020 by Noah Claypole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 22 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Ok apologieso. But £23m is a lot for stadium redevelopment budgeted at £11m plus £1m contingency for overspend. Yes agreed. There’s no doubt the original estimate was optimistic then other large elements were added eg pitch, plant room, police control box, etc. Then add in that the projects timelines over-ran so management costs increase and you start to understand what happened. Yes FoH committed £6m but were happy to do so. One of the key financials though is that our benefactors and Budge have, to last June, contributed £8.4m to the redevelopment project. That probably more than covers the real overspend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, Morph said: Are you for real? The real over spend is only 2m because a stand that size “should cost about 18m”? Why should it cost 18m, because some random on kickback said so? Why not 25m or 30 and we can say it’s under budget. Yes I’m for real. It’s not just a stand is it? How much are Aberdeen projecting their new stadium will cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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