'New Stand update'.well an update

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, sadj said:

Lol their 50m project with 6 for Cormack Park which i believe is already well over budget. There was talk of canning it and redeveloping Pittodrie due to funding issues. Possibly why Milnes away and Cormacks stepped up.

IIRC their whole project was to cost 50m with the training ground being 10m of that, but they've since announced that the training ground cost 12m and the rest of the development will be an additional 50m.

IIRC...

[Footballfirst]

If the project finances were under control and being well managed, I don't think we would have seen the year on year revisions of the budget. 

 

May 2016 £11m

Dec 2016 £12m

Dec 2017 £15m

Dec 2018 £20.7m

Dec 2019 £21.6m + £1.5m to be spent

[Bull's-eye]

15 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

The most exciting bit I take out of all of this is this.

 

”“I would have liked to have pressed the button in January but, with everything else that has gone on, I can’t see that happening much before the end of the season.“

 

Says to me that funds are being diverted to the Stendel fighting fund!!

 

The money is being diverted to the new IT department being located on the 2nd floor to answer all the emails sent 🤗

[Vlad Magic]

9 minutes ago, obua said:

That’s how I understand it to mean, That’s how it should be as well.

Agree.

 

Perhaps if we under budget or overspend on players the ***** on here will desist in their frothing 😁

[Vlad Magic]

1 minute ago, Noah Claypole said:

 

The money is being diverted to the new IT department being located on the 2nd floor to answer all the emails sent 🤗

Budges brother is being gifted that whole floor to turn into his personal man cave.

[Bull's-eye]

4 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Budges brother is being gifted that whole floor to turn into his personal man cave.

 

Hibs museum?

[FruitJuice]

15 minutes ago, obua said:

That’s how I understand it to mean, That’s how it should be as well.

We'll know by the end of the transfer window if the money has been diverted to help stendel.  How many and who we sign will show us.  

[Footballfirst]

FAQs - 8 April 2016

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/stadium-development-update-faqs

 

Don't forget the new screens

• Are there any plans for electronic scoreboards or big screens?

Yes, the club are currently looking at the options for two screens.

 

Upgrades in the other stands were also included in the original plans

• Will anything be done to develop the existing stands?

We are looking at various ideas re the upgrading and reinvigoration of the three existing stands. This is likely to include improved toilet facilities and kiosk facilities.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Vlad Magic]

3 minutes ago, Noah Claypole said:

 

Hibs museum?

 
 

Only if we over budget for it 👍

[sadj]

20 minutes ago, Sid said:

very clear I would say. 

😂

15 minutes ago, Smithee said:

IIRC their whole project was to cost 50m with the training ground being 10m of that, but they've since announced that the training ground cost 12m and the rest of the development will be an additional 50m.

IIRC...

Apologies if i got the figures wrong. I knew it was overbudget by a good percentage and they haven’t started the stadium yet. 👍🏻

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

21 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

If the project finances were under control and being well managed, I don't think we would have seen the year on year revisions of the budget. 

 

May 2016 £11m

Dec 2016 £12m

Dec 2017 £15m

Dec 2018 £20.7m

Dec 2019 £21.6m + £1.5m to be spent

Wasting your time mate (even though you’re absolutely right).

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

21 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Agree.

 

Perhaps if we under budget or overspend on players the ***** on here will desist in their frothing 😁

You mean if we start acting like a football club? It would be fairly welcome (not by you, I know you’re not bothered about results, but by quite a few of the rest of us)

[Francis Albert]

44 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

The most exciting bit I take out of all of this is this.

 

”“I would have liked to have pressed the button in January but, with everything else that has gone on, I can’t see that happening much before the end of the season.“

 

Says to me that funds are being diverted to the Stendel fighting fund!!

We will see. Could equally mean we have run out of money to fund stadium redevelopment because of the overspend.

Same reason that despite the repeated assertion we will complete the stadium redevelopment "debt free"  ignores the £1.5m the club will owe Ann for her for her  loans to complete stadium funding.

Or at least complete the spending to date on an incomplete stand.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

And the plant room at circa £1.5m I believe. 

Correct - something that the QS and Architect seemingly “forgot”.

[Thomaso]

57 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Walk around the fan areas. It looks like it's been done as part of a school teccy project. 

So you haven’t been in the other areas of the stand complex Phil?

How about the other £21m stands you were referring to - any names?

[Phil Dunphy]

2 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

So you haven’t been in the other areas of the stand complex Phil?

How about the other £21m stands you were referring to - any names?

 

Do you think I spend my time wandering about all the completed stadia developments in the UK to make comparisons to our own? I know you're just defending your own work, but I've spent enough time inside that Main Stand to know the fan areas look pretty basic. 

 

Or are you going to tell us the supporters who're meant to fill it every other week weren't the main consideration for this thing?

[TheTrumpet]

47 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

If the project finances were under control and being well managed, I don't think we would have seen the year on year revisions of the budget. 

 

May 2016 £11m

Dec 2016 £12m

Dec 2017 £15m

Dec 2018 £20.7m

Dec 2019 £21.6m + £1.5m to be spent

Huge overspend, even for a large infrastructure project. Folk can bury their heads in the sand all they want, talk about a great stand etc but 23 million and rising for one stand that hasn't increased capacity is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Budge has made two awful decisions that have cost Hearts tens of millions of pounds.

 

1 - Employ a proper director of football upon taking control of the club.

 

2 - Deciding not to engage a main contractor on the stand.

 

Both abysmal decisions that have set Hearts back, potentially, years.

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Just now, TheTrumpet said:

Huge overspend, even for a large infrastructure project. Folk can bury their heads in the sand all they want, talk about a great stand etc but 23 million and rising for one stand that hasn't increased capacity is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Budge has made two awful decisions that have cost Hearts tens of millions of pounds.

 

1 - Employ a proper director of football upon taking control of the club.

 

2 - Deciding not to engage a main contractor on the stand.

 

Both abysmal decisions that have set Hearts back, potentially, years.

It did increase the capacity

[TheTrumpet]

4 minutes ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

It did increase the capacity

By what?

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Just now, TheTrumpet said:

By what?

I don't know the exact figures but the new stand takes the total capacity up to @20k. With the old stand it was something like 17,500

[Mr Brightside]

1 minute ago, TheTrumpet said:

By what?

About 3k from circa 17k to circa 20k for total stadium capacity.

[Vlad Magic]

4 minutes ago, Mr Brightside said:

About 3k from circa 17k to circa 20k for total stadium capacity.

Did we over budget on capacity?

[stirlo]

As others have pointed out, it was never likely to be built for £12m. But I always thought it was a mistake to attempt to carry out the construction in such a rush. Taking a couple of months longer would only have required us to play 4 or 5 more games at Murrayfield and would have resulted in less rushed decisions being taken once construction was under way (which probably ended up costing a fair bit). 

[soonbe110]

36 minutes ago, TheTrumpet said:

Huge overspend, even for a large infrastructure project. Folk can bury their heads in the sand all they want, talk about a great stand etc but 23 million and rising for one stand that hasn't increased capacity is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Budge has made two awful decisions that have cost Hearts tens of millions of pounds.

 

1 - Employ a proper director of football upon taking control of the club.

 

2 - Deciding not to engage a main contractor on the stand.

 

Both abysmal decisions that have set Hearts back, potentially, years.

Rubbish. I’ll agree that initial estimate was probably a few million light but every year other elements were added to the ‘project’ as FF well knows hence the increase every year. Pitch, plant room account for £2.5-3m of extra costs that were not planned in the initial stages. There is a long list of other adds. 
what people don’t seem to realise is that in a few months time the Clubs new owners take on a fully functioning, relatively state of the art (in Scottish football terms) stadium that’s fully paid up and with zero debt. What would be the prognosis for the Club if FoH had taken ownership 18 months ago (original schedule) but still had the Main Stand to replace? 
Seems some people (not necessarily you) just have to moan about the Club and can’t see the big picture. 

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

20 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

How on earth would any Hearts supporter not know that the capacity increased after building the new main stand. 
 

Utterly ridiculous. 

Any Hearts supporter would.

[Armageddon]

3 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I will happily admit I am clueless with regard to the building game. Never worked in construction in my life. And have very little knowledge of it. 

 

I am assuming based on your post you are pretty familiar with it all. 

 

For those like myself who are uneducated on the topic, would you be able to give us an overview of why £22M is value for money with regard to the stand? 

In a very simple way as I’m watching the SAS programme.

 

- You have land and want to build a house

- You submit your planning application with a design and expected build cost

- You start building the house and you make changes along the way when you come to pick very specific design features, fixtures and fittings, the design could also be expanded.

- Bear in mind we also had an additional floor never really specc’d for anything and now it’s being fitted out with the costs never taken into consideration until it was decided.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Do you think I spend my time wandering about all the completed stadia developments in the UK to make comparisons to our own? I know you're just defending your own work, but I've spent enough time inside that Main Stand to know the fan areas look pretty basic. 

 

Or are you going to tell us the supporters who're meant to fill it every other week weren't the main consideration for this thing?

OK I tried to engage in a sensible conversation with you but that was a waste of time.

So you haven’t a clue what a £21m stand actually looks like and can give us no examples. You also obviously haven’t a clue what the Interior of the new stand complex looks like.

Think we’ll leave it at that.
Cheers.

[jake]

2 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

I try to call it as I see it - good and bad.

I had noticed 😄

[Footballfirst]

36 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Rubbish. I’ll agree that initial estimate was probably a few million light but every year other elements were added to the ‘project’ as FF well knows hence the increase every year. Pitch, plant room account for £2.5-3m of extra costs that were not planned in the initial stages. There is a long list of other adds. 
what people don’t seem to realise is that in a few months time the Clubs new owners take on a fully functioning, relatively state of the art (in Scottish football terms) stadium that’s fully paid up and with zero debt. What would be the prognosis for the Club if FoH had taken ownership 18 months ago (original schedule) but still had the Main Stand to replace? 
Seems some people (not necessarily you) just have to moan about the Club and can’t see the big picture. 

I accept that the spec changed during the project, but what many on here are asking is a breakdown of what was included in the initial spec, what was removed from that spec e.g. screens, what was added to the spec e.g. plant room & pitch. What were the budget to actual differences both for original spec items and newly spec'd items?  Only then will we have a better idea if the project was well managed and the club got value for money.

 

The club will NOT be handed over debt free.  There is every likelihood the the club will be at least £1.5m in debt to Bidco (which will still be secured on the clubs assets). In addition, at least a further £1.5m will have to be found to complete the project. That cash may come from benefactors, club resources or future FOH pledges.

 

In the meantime investment in the first team needs to take priority in an all out effort to avoid relegation, and the resultant consequences for the club's finances, otherwise the development will rightly be seen as a white elephant.

 

Even if relegation is avoided, the outstanding work still has to be completed and debts paid off, thus limiting investment in the team for a further period.  That is the big picture, not a shiny new stand with various addons.

 

I thought that the club was being over ambitious at the start of the redevelopment. Nothing that has happened in the last three or four years has changed my mind on that.   

   

Edited January 5, 2020 by Footballfirst

[77Mackay77]

48 minutes ago, TheTrumpet said:

Huge overspend, even for a large infrastructure project. Folk can bury their heads in the sand all they want, talk about a great stand etc but 23 million and rising for one stand that hasn't increased capacity is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Budge has made two awful decisions that have cost Hearts tens of millions of pounds.

 

1 - Employ a proper director of football upon taking control of the club.

 

2 - Deciding not to engage a main contractor on the stand.

 

Both abysmal decisions that have set Hearts back, potentially, years.

Just not true. 

 

The basic build was a budget of c£12m, we have then added significantly to the overall project that has increased the o stall costs. Adding things like the fans bar, another lounge, tv studio etc. And the figure quoted includes money spent on the rest of the stadium and the pitch.

 

why can’t people understand these basic facts?

 

And even if it was £20m on the stand, that is not a lot by today’s standards. Fulham are doing a similar project, okay it will add 4,000 seats but it is budgeted at £80m. Wolves did a stand at one end of their ground 8 years ago and that cost them £12m so about £15m in today’s money. Think it’s two tiered and has the club shop and a bar but doesn’t have loads of hospitality, changing rooms, tv studio etc.

 

Bottom line is if you read the facts about the stadium redevelopment project you understand why there is a big difference from the initial £12m budget for the basic stand and the £24/25m infrastructure spend.

 

The£12m was for the four bed house we were going to put on the plot and then we added a fifth bedroom, a conservatory, a much larger open plan kitchen and a double garage. We then realised if we spent more on the fittings we could generate more revenue when we rent it out so we went to victor Paris and not b&q and so on. 

[jake]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

But the majority of funds are not coming from FoH. Think it’s circa £6m at last count. 
At the moment she owns the Company that holds the football licence. She is more than custodian. 
I doubt if there are many, if any, major construction projects that delivered exactly the original brief on original budget. Not disagreeing with your points re checks and balances but on this occasion the owner of the business and her main financiers ie FoH and Benefactors supported the changes and clearly the  incremental costs required to get the project to where it is. In the end FoH will pick up a stadium that is in the best state it’s probably ever been when it completes the share purchase later this year. And the purchase price for the club is the same as it was when we came out of administration when we didn’t have the new stand and pitch etc. And it will almost certainly be debt free as well. I find it hard to believe that people are unhappy where we are stadium/finance wise. 

I'm sorry but can I just get this right.

The majority of the funds have come from where exactly?

FOH and the supporters money no ?

 

Anyway I was just about to launch into that's why we need etc etc.

 

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

I accept that the spec changed during the project, but what many on here are asking is a breakdown of what was included in the initial spec, what was removed from that spec e.g. screens, what was added to the spec e.g. plant room & pitch. What were the budget to actual differences both for original spec items and newly spec'd items?  Only then will we have a better idea if the project was well managed and the club got value for money.

 

 

Here is my stab at the breakdown of costs

 

QS flawed budget - £12m

Budget correction - £6m

Plant Room - £1.5m

Hybrid Pitch - £1m

Design changes - £1.5m

 

Out turn cost - £22m

[Phil Dunphy]

9 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

OK I tried to engage in a sensible conversation with you but that was a waste of time.

So you haven’t a clue what a £21m stand actually looks like and can give us no examples. You also obviously haven’t a clue what the Interior of the new stand complex looks like.

Think we’ll leave it at that.
Cheers.

 

You absolutely can't be impartial here, since you did work on the stand yourself. The stand is nearly TEN MILLION POUNDS over budget. That is absolutely shambolic.

 

You'd think for that extra £10m, the fan area would be more than corrugated iron and plasterboard.

[77Mackay77]

3 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

You absolutely can't be impartial here, since you did work on the stand yourself. The stand is nearly TEN MILLION POUNDS over budget. That is absolutely shambolic.

 

You'd think for that extra £10m, the fan area would be more than corrugated iron and plasterboard.

It is not £10m over budget. Does no one read anything on here!

 

The original spec changed massively so the cost went up. That was budgeted cost as in it a planned increase in costs.

Edited January 5, 2020 by 77Mackay77

[jake]

1 minute ago, 77Mackay77 said:

Just not true. 

 

The basic build was a budget of c£12m, we have then added significantly to the overall project that has increased the o stall costs. Adding things like the fans bar, another lounge, tv studio etc. And the figure quoted includes money spent on the rest of the stadium and the pitch.

 

why can’t people understand these basic facts?

 

And even if it was £20m on the stand, that is not a lot by today’s standards. Fulham are doing a similar project, okay it will add 4,000 seats but it is budgeted at £80m. Wolves did a stand at one end of their ground 8 years ago and that cost them £12m so about £15m in today’s money. Think it’s two tiered and has the club shop and a bar but doesn’t have loads of hospitality, changing rooms, tv studio etc.

 

Bottom line is if you read the facts about the stadium redevelopment project you understand why there is a big difference from the initial £12m budget for the basic stand and the £24/25m infrastructure spend.

 

The£12m was for the four bed house we were going to put on the plot and then we added a fifth bedroom, a conservatory, a much larger open plan kitchen and a double garage. We then realised if we spent more on the fittings we could generate more revenue when we rent it out so we went to victor Paris and not b&q and so on. 

It's good then that this is being explained by the likes of yourself.

 

In your opinion is the lack of clarity and communication the problem?

And where are these facts to be found that FOH subscribers could glean?

 

This thread I think is a good lesson for us all and the FOH.

I feel more optimistic reading different views.

 

[Phil Dunphy]

1 minute ago, 77Mackay77 said:

It annoys£10m over budget. Does no one read anything on here!

 

The original spec changed massively so the cost went up. That was budgeted cost as in it a planned increase in costs.

 

I'm still waiting for someone to say what makes our new main stand worth an extra £11m than the West Stand at Easter Road.

[Vlad Magic]

7 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I'm still waiting for someone to say what makes our new main stand worth an extra £11m than the West Stand at Easter Road.

Have you been in both?

[soonbe110]

13 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I accept that the spec changed during the project, but what many on here are asking is a breakdown of what was included in the initial spec, what was removed from that spec e.g. screens, what was added to the spec e.g. plant room & pitch. What were the budget to actual differences both for original spec items and newly spec'd items?  Only then will we have a better idea if the project was well managed and the club got value for money.

 

The club will NOT be handed over debt free.  There is every likelihood the the club will be at least £1.5m in debt to Bidco (which will still be secured on the clubs assets). In addition, at least a further £1.5m will have to be found to complete the project. That cash may come from benefactors, club resources or future FOH pledges.

 

In the meantime investment in the first team needs to take priority in an all out effort to avoid relegation, and the resultant consequences for the club's finances, otherwise the development will rightly be seen as a white elephant.

 

Even if relegation is avoided, the outstanding work still has to be completed and debts paid off, thus limiting investment in the team for a further period.  That is the big picture, not a shiny new stand with various addons.

 

I thought that the club was being over ambitious at the start of the redevelopment. Nothing that has happened in the last three or four years has changed my mind on that.   

   

I’m of the opinion that it will be debt free at handover. Your opinion is different.  Time will tell who is right. 
At the moment the stand is functional and any further investment should, as Budge said at the agm, only proceed when we have the funding to do it. I’m assuming that having that funding ready will mean there is a sensible return on the investment. 
I agree re sorting out the playing staff to avoid relegation and believe funding has again been found for this. 
I don’t think the ‘ club’ had any plan at the start of the redevelopment. I think a supporter, who had the financial wherewithal with commitments from others re finance, had a plan to rescue the club she supported, sort it out, put in place a sound infrastructure and pass ownership back to the fans. I think we are close to the end game of that supporters plan. 

[soonbe110]

17 minutes ago, 77Mackay77 said:

Just not true. 

 

The basic build was a budget of c£12m, we have then added significantly to the overall project that has increased the o stall costs. Adding things like the fans bar, another lounge, tv studio etc. And the figure quoted includes money spent on the rest of the stadium and the pitch.

 

why can’t people understand these basic facts?

 

And even if it was £20m on the stand, that is not a lot by today’s standards. Fulham are doing a similar project, okay it will add 4,000 seats but it is budgeted at £80m. Wolves did a stand at one end of their ground 8 years ago and that cost them £12m so about £15m in today’s money. Think it’s two tiered and has the club shop and a bar but doesn’t have loads of hospitality, changing rooms, tv studio etc.

 

Bottom line is if you read the facts about the stadium redevelopment project you understand why there is a big difference from the initial £12m budget for the basic stand and the £24/25m infrastructure spend.

 

The£12m was for the four bed house we were going to put on the plot and then we added a fifth bedroom, a conservatory, a much larger open plan kitchen and a double garage. We then realised if we spent more on the fittings we could generate more revenue when we rent it out so we went to victor Paris and not b&q and so on. 

They only built one big stand at Emirates and it cost £390m. Spurs stadium cost close to £1bn. 

[Phil Dunphy]

3 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Have you been in both?

 

Nope. That's why I'm asking.

[johnking123]

15 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I'm still waiting for someone to say what makes our new main stand worth an extra £11m than the West Stand at Easter Road.

Our stand is a far bigger project. More corporate, nursery, bar and still more to be added to it. Plus our stand aint riddled with HIVS!

Edited January 5, 2020 by johnking123

[soonbe110]

18 minutes ago, jake said:

I'm sorry but can I just get this right.

The majority of the funds have come from where exactly?

FOH and the supporters money no ?

 

Anyway I was just about to launch into that's why we need etc etc.

 

No, majority has come from benefactors, Budge and clubs working capital. 

[77Mackay77]

8 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I'm still waiting for someone to say what makes our new main stand worth an extra £11m than the West Stand at Easter Road.

 

15 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I'm still waiting for someone to say what makes our new main stand worth an extra £11m than the West Stand at Easter Road.

You 

 

3 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Nope. That's why I'm asking.

Do you mean the east stand? Google tells me the west was completed about 15 yrs ago.

 If it’s the east,  I don’t think it has things like real hospitality, changing rooms,  reception area, club shop, fan bar. And it today’s money the £11m would be £15m.

[jake]

1 minute ago, BarneyBattles said:

All the info in the post you have replied to is public knowledge and has been done to death on numerous threads. 
 

There’s no doubt that some money has been wasted but most of the additional cost is for additional projects. 
 

In addition, as it stands despite the rising cost of the stadium refurb, we’re looking likely to inherit a club in great financial shape with relatively little debt (£1.5m)  and our new stand is not going to snooker us financially or ‘set us back for decades’ as was dramatically proclaimed up the page a bit. 

A lot of my ignorance may be my fault .

Still think that for guys like me we could do with a report via email with breakdowns and links for more detailed info.

I want this part of the history of the club to work.

It's great that in my own small way I've been part of it.

Wont repeat myself .

Hope we learn lessons from it and just a wee add on.

I dont expect to see personal incomes wages etc .

But a view of where and what our money is spent on.

 

[davemclaren]

30 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Here is my stab at the breakdown of costs

 

QS flawed budget - £12m

Budget correction - £6m

Plant Room - £1.5m

Hybrid Pitch - £1m

Design changes - £1.5m

 

Out turn cost - £22m

Useful analysis. Thanks. 

[jake]

14 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

No, majority has come from benefactors, Budge and clubs working capital. 

Clubs working capital comes from where ?

[jake]

2 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

Fair enough mate. I personally couldn’t care less about anything other than the first team staying up at the moment. 
 

That’s my sole concern. 

Yes at the moment but let's not take our eyes off the ball.

I have in the past used the shout about where were we to offset criticism about things I use the same shout to warn of complacency.

 

[Hungry hippo]

30 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I’m of the opinion that it will be debt free at handover. Your opinion is different.  Time will tell who is right. 
At the moment the stand is functional and any further investment should, as Budge said at the agm, only proceed when we have the funding to do it. I’m assuming that having that funding ready will mean there is a sensible return on the investment. 
I agree re sorting out the playing staff to avoid relegation and believe funding has again been found for this. 
I don’t think the ‘ club’ had any plan at the start of the redevelopment. I think a supporter, who had the financial wherewithal with commitments from others re finance, had a plan to rescue the club she supported, sort it out, put in place a sound infrastructure and pass ownership back to the fans. I think we are close to the end game of that supporters plan. 

 

Why do you think we will be debt free at handover? Do you believe the debt to Ann Budge, which she confirmed at the AGM, will be written off or are you stating this because this was the initial goal?

 

As far as I know FF is correct that the recent loan will still be due.

 

Just to add that I am pro Budge and think we are lucky to have her on board. That doesn't mean that there haven't been mistakes though.

[Bazzas right boot]

New stand oot!! 

[Jambo-Fox]

It’s a valuable asset! I hope it’s well insured  including cover for loss of business! Imagine if it burnt down and it wasn’t insured 😮 and funds had to be found to rebuild it!