'New Stand update'.well an update

[Jamhammer]

If the daily record told me it was raining I’d put me shorts and flip flops on. Not news. We’re not even about to play one of the cheeks either. What gives?

[Squirt]

19 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

This was a specific request rather than an error though?

Could well be the case and seeing the post from Homme more than likely. I don’t mind hearing it at the time and hearing it now doesn’t change that it’s annoying to look at! However, understandable if indeed it is to incorporate the old tunnel somewhere, although I’m yet to see this.

[pettigrewsstylist]

10 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Thanks, you are one of the posters I was thinking of earlier. If the figure was always going to be £18m then the % over spend is 20% or  £3.6m (using FF’s number of £21.6m). However, if this final figure includes £1m for a pitch then the ‘overspend’ is £2.6m or 14.4%.

 

Now a 14.4% overspend is a rubbish headline but still worth a debate by us. 

 

A key question for me is, if the club had expected to pay a minimum of £18m would they have proceeded with the project? If they hadn’t what would the alternative have been?, etc...can the end sometimes justify the means? 

Interesting final point for sure.

[Francis Albert]

I have had my say on this before and won't repeat myself. Some of the posts on here are reminiscent of those who circled the wagons around Levein and kept them in place a year after it became obvious his management of the "football department" was leading us to disaster. Probably some of the same posters. 

[i8hibsh]

22 minutes ago, Cade said:

As others have said, there is not a huge overspend.

The original spec was for a very basic outfit.

As the  club's finances have improved (record turnovers etc), Hearts have increased the specifications.

We're simply adding bigger and better facilities as we can afford it.

 

It's like when you buy a house then spend more money on a new kitchen, new bathroom, new boiler, add an extension and decorate every room.

You haven't paid more for the house.

 

 

 

That certainly justifies some overspend but ffs Cade it is 100% over budget.

Edited January 5, 2020 by i8hibsh

[ramrod]

So in summary , the stand has cost circa double the original estimate for whatever reason . 

when it's finally completed. 

It wil be paid up and we aren't sadddled with any debt due to the overspend going forward . 

Happy days ! 

[Vlad Magic]

1 minute ago, ramrod said:

So in summary , the stand has cost circa double the original estimate for whatever reason . 

when it's finally completed. 

It wil be paid up and we aren't sadddled with any debt due to the overspend going forward . 

Happy days ! 

Correct. Incidentally if the club had said from the beginning the cost of the stand would be 22 million the outcome would be exactly the same as where we are now.

 

The stand would be exactly at the same stage as now, the costs would be exactly the same. There would be no difference what so ever other than people complaining that the cost has gone from A to B. 
 

I wish Budge had said it would cost 30 million. That way we would be 8 million better off!!

 

Thats not how it works though is it 👍

[highlandjambo3]

2 hours ago, Noah Claypole said:

 

Yes, I've been on the one that goes from the (hopefully) temporary PR Bar on the ground floor up to the second floor. It's bloody marvellous. 

Ok, seen and used the elevator and, been in the new stand twice but not sure where the PR bar is.  I did see a bar/vip sort of lounge to the right hand side as you approach the elevator a while back, is that the PR bar? Also, I didn’t see the escalator is that because it’s actually inside that PR bar.  Also, so it goes from the ground floor to the second floor via the first floor so you get off at the first floor, twizzle round (best word I could find) then get back on or, just ground to the second.

 

Sorry for the long winded question but, I’m in the “hard of thinking” club.

[FruitJuice]

34 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I have had my say on this before and won't repeat myself. Some of the posts on here are reminiscent of those who circled the wagons around Levein and kept them in place a year after it became obvious his management of the "football department" was leading us to disaster. Probably some of the same posters. 

It is the same posters.  Some even suggest that discussing things on here might affect how the first team performs.  It's not as if everything has been going well over the last few years.  I wonder if they tell fans to shut up when they are discussing things in the pub.  Fans who wanted rid off levein because of how bad we had been were accused of being hibs fans or had their 'hearts fan credentials' questioned.  

[Bull's-eye]

4 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Ok, seen and used the elevator and, been in the new stand twice but not sure where the PR bar is.  I did see a bar/vip sort of lounge to the right hand side as you approach the elevator a while back, is that the PR bar? Also, I didn’t see the escalator is that because it’s actually inside that PR bar.  Also, so it goes from the ground floor to the second floor via the first floor so you get off at the first floor, twizzle round (best word I could find) then get back on or, just ground to the second.

 

Sorry for the long winded question but, I’m in the “hard of thinking” club.

 

PR bar is on the ground floor in between the Shop and the Main entrance. The escalator is just behind the turnstile to the left of the Main entrance, goes up to the 1st floor, haven't seen the other one that goes up higher. 

[Elshin]

I love the new stand. The shop, the fans bar. The esculator, the skyline.    So fek if it cost more, its almost all paid for and will last for decades to come.   

 

On the park the board have made lots of mistakes and right now i am still on the side that they should go once FOH have paid them back.      But for the stand i am happy, actully delighted for what we have.

 

20m to have a good spec stand that meets our needs in gorgie, at our home.     I am delighted as the other option would likly have been moving away and just imagine the cost for that

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Shan Budge will be lucky to leave one positive legacy behind when she leaves (which is hopefully very, very soon)

[Governor Tarkin]

54 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I have had my say on this before and won't repeat myself. Some of the posts on here are reminiscent of those who circled the wagons around Levein and kept them in place a year after it became obvious his management of the "football department" was leading us to disaster. Probably some of the same posters. 

 

[ramrod]

7 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

It is the same posters.  Some even suggest that discussing things on here might affect how the first team performs.  It's not as if everything has been going well over the last few years.  I wonder if they tell fans to shut up when they are discussing things in the pub.  Fans who wanted rid off levein because of how bad we had been were accused of being hibs fans or had their 'hearts fan credentials' questioned.  

Sorry but that's shite m8 . 

There were very few on here supporting Levein in the last 6 months . 

On the other hand this site is infested with Hibs fans who pipe up constantly on neatly every thread talking Shite because they know the can get away with it . The saddest if the sad , but there it is .

Guys like FA are fierce critics of the present regime but are Heats fans nevertheless. 

I rarely agree with their viewpoint but welcome their input as Hearts fans. 

Very few on here support the  current regime blindly , certainly far fewer than the sad sack interlopers pretending to be Hearts fans . 

[FruitJuice]

1 minute ago, ramrod said:

Sorry but that's shite m8 . 

There were very few on here supporting Levein in the last 6 months . 

On the other hand this site is infested with Hibs fans who pipe up constantly on neatly every thread talking Shite because they know the can get away with it . The saddest if the sad , but there it is .

Guys like FA are fierce critics of the present regime but are Heats fans nevertheless. 

I rarely agree with their viewpoint but welcome their input as Hearts fans. 

Very few on here support the  current regime blindly , certainly far fewer than the sad sack interlopers pretending to be Hearts fans . 

Who are the interlopers?  

[Thomaso]

8 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

I don't get some of these comments. The stand isn't just a stand for me, and probably many more. It marks the end of a horrific period during which we spent at least 15 or more years stressing about whether we'd have to leave Tynecastle, and it symbolises our recovery from a traumatic near-death experience. If we can afford it, which it seems we can, then it's a bargain.

👍

[Clerry Jambo]

22 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Shan Budge will be lucky to leave one positive legacy behind when she leaves (which is hopefully very, very soon)

Loving the shite banter on here re Ann’s name

[TheOak88]

9 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

£6m of the ‘overspend’ can be explained by the unrealistic cost plan put together by the Quantity Surveyor.

 

Which one of Budge’s family is the Quantity Surveyor? 

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Which one of Budge’s family is the Quantity Surveyor? 

🙄

[TheOak88]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

🙄

 

Just kidding, Dave. 

[TheOak88]

12 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

As I’ve said previously the problem was that the Architect and Quantity Surveyor put together a totally unrealistic cost plan for the work.

For instance they put in a sum of £450k for the electrical and mechanical work - the cheapest tender they got was £1.3m!

£12m was never going to cut it and a Hearts supporting friend of mine who was an MD in a major contractor priced up the job at £18m.

 

Out of interest did your friend say why it would cost £18M? It seems like a pretty high figure. 

 

Does anyone know how much other clubs have paid to build a new stand? How much did Hibs new stand cost for example?

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Just kidding, Dave. 

I know but these things suddenly become fact. 😄

[HEARTS FOREVER]

I'm not an Ann budge hater.......but a £6million overspend on a stand that doesn't reach the ' skyline ' is  folly. 

 

Complete folly.

[highlandjambo3]

Not trying to sound like any sort of sales person but..........

 

get punters interested in a product, base line price looks like a good idea...where do I sign then.  Then  increase with add ons like your insurance/warranty cover for white goods......speedy boarding and seat selection from easy jet....etc...etc (am sure there are loads more).

 

So, we get the green light and it’s a go.....the add ons are expensive, quality lounges, fixtures and fittings.....the bill increases.  Someone likened it to buying a new house then upgrading all the standard fixtures inside = cost goes up.  It could be cheap and tacky inside, I don’t think it is.

 

Don't get me wrong, the overspend is a lot but, the risk of flagging up a fairly accurate price might put people off and kill it dead in the water.

 

I for one am chuffed about our new stand.

[Allowayjambo1874]

9 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Out of interest did your friend say why it would cost £18M? It seems like a pretty high figure. 

 

Does anyone know how much other clubs have paid to build a new stand? How much did Hibs new stand cost for example?

Much cheaper but two stands behind goals done in 1995 (7-8m for both) west (main) 2001 (7-8m) and east (cowshed) 2010 (5-6m).

 

Don’t take these figures as gospel though, just ring a bell.

 

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison however given dates, spec etc

 

[Last Laff]

9 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

I don't get some of these comments. The stand isn't just a stand for me, and probably many more. It marks the end of a horrific period during which we spent at least 15 or more years stressing about whether we'd have to leave Tynecastle, and it symbolises our recovery from a traumatic near-death experience. If we can afford it, which it seems we can, then it's a bargain.

Very well put tbf 👍

[77Mackay77]

2 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

Eh but there has, revising the estimate every few hours doesn’t change that. Whilst costing, designing and building whilst on site is undoubtably the least effective method for driving costs.

 

This is a overspend and AB admits that. 
 

The stand has been handled poorly and not framing as a positive story changes that to be honest,

Eh but there hasn’t. 

 

You said “massive overspend”,

which there are as quite clearly not been. To claim overwise is either ill informed or a lie.

[Weakened Offender]

I love the new stand. For years the old stand was a threat to the stadium and the club's future. That threat no longer exists. 

 

Hearts have spunked millions of pounds in my lifetime for arguably very little return. If there's an overspend on this project then I couldn't give a flying ****. 

[Vlad Magic]

Not overspend. Under budgeted.

 

Fortunately the funds to cover the difference have been met.

[77Mackay77]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

That certainly justifies some overspend but ffs Cade it is 100% over budget.

Not it’s not. Not even close. Stop making stuff up and discuss the facts or don’t bother discussing it.

[TheOak88]

23 minutes ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

Much cheaper but two stands behind goals done in 1995 (7-8m for both) west (main) 2001 (7-8m) and east (cowshed) 2010 (5-6m).

 

Don’t take these figures as gospel though, just ring a bell.

 

I don’t think it’s a fair comparison however given dates, spec etc

 

 

So Hibs built their East Stand less than 10 years ago for about 25% of the cost to build our Main Stand?

 

I get that the specs are different and our stand is bigger with more facilities built in. But nearly 4 x the price??

[fabienleclerq]

18 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Not overspend. Under budgeted.

 

Fortunately the funds to cover the difference have been met.

 

😂😂😂

[Allowayjambo1874]

13 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

As I’ve said previously the problem was that the Architect and Quantity Surveyor put together a totally unrealistic cost plan for the work.

For instance they put in a sum of £450k for the electrical and mechanical work - the cheapest tender they got was £1.3m!

£12m was never going to cut it and a Hearts supporting friend of mine who was an MD in a major contractor priced up the job at £18m.

Exactly what I was told by someone involved in the building work.
 

The work had started and the architect kept changing bits and pieces which also added to cost and eventually led him to him being sacked, the suggestion was people managing different parts of the build were sick of him as he seemed very indecisive and poor at detail. 
 

Was also told that many of the companies involved were giving hearts great rates/deals because lots of them were run by PHM. 
 

Personally I think not having a professional project management company involved meant basic errors were made (seats fiasco) and an unrealistic cost and timeframe were given. On the plus side the benefactors who have taken up the slack are undoubtedly only involved because of AB and the net result, whatever way you cut it, is that a decent quality stand has been built with no outstanding debt on it.

 

I would ask those being underwhelmed by it and complaining about the cost to consider what a £12m stand would actually look like and how basic it would be.

[Jambomb]

I might be in the minority but I’m not a fan of the stand at all, season ticket holder in a suite and have sat in various seats around the stand, it feels like one big missed opportunity.
 

- no pitch facing boxes

- no safe standing

- press area seems odd setup and location

- TV box after thought

- Not really any improvements on existing stands from seating or access perspective 

- trip hazard on bottom section steps

- poor management of through traffic at disabled seating

- toilets are very strangely setup, surely in/out doors would have been better?
- any idea why hand dryers are at knee height??

- kiosks at section N end very poor setup, hard to move around.
- no directors box!

 

the suites are OK but suffer a number of issues as well

- poor seating arrangements

- not enough TVs for a ‘sports bar’ as Strongbow is described

- no thought about serving areas (directly under one of the TVs)

- toilets not finished

- pretty poor finish overall

- and generally poor value 

 

its served a purpose and was needing done when it was, And around £11m would be about right, but I can’t help think a simpler stand only to start with would have been better option.

 

i certainly don’t think the finish is anywhere near as high a standard as it should be for £20m

As said I think it’s a big missed opportunity for something very special

[Taffin]

10 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

I don't get some of these comments. The stand isn't just a stand for me, and probably many more. It marks the end of a horrific period during which we spent at least 15 or more years stressing about whether we'd have to leave Tynecastle, and it symbolises our recovery from a traumatic near-death experience. If we can afford it, which it seems we can, then it's a bargain.

 

I could afford to pay £500 for a ready meal for my dinner....it doesn't make it a bargain though.

[Allowayjambo1874]

5 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

So Hibs built their East Stand less than 10 years ago for about 25% of the cost to build our Main Stand?

 

I get that the specs are different and our stand is bigger with more facilities built in. But nearly 4 x the price??

Like I say don’t take those figures as gospel but their east stand is equivalent to our wheatfield, just basic facilities and seats, absolutely nothing high spec about it. 
 

Their west stand built on 2010 is the comparable stand.

[Section Q]

56 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I know but these things suddenly become fact. 😄

Well who knows.....?

[Allowayjambo1874]

6 minutes ago, Jambomb said:

I might be in the minority but I’m not a fan of the stand at all, season ticket holder in a suite and have sat in various seats around the stand, it feels like one big missed opportunity.
 

- no pitch facing boxes

- no safe standing

- press area seems odd setup and location

- TV box after thought

- Not really any improvements on existing stands from seating or access perspective 

- trip hazard on bottom section steps

- poor management of through traffic at disabled seating

- toilets are very strangely setup, surely in/out doors would have been better?
- any idea why hand dryers are at knee height??

- kiosks at section N end very poor setup, hard to move around.
- no directors box!

 

the suites are OK but suffer a number of issues as well

- poor seating arrangements

- not enough TVs for a ‘sports bar’ as Strongbow is described

- no thought about serving areas (directly under one of the TVs)

- toilets not finished

- pretty poor finish overall

- and generally poor value 

 

its served a purpose and was needing done when it was, And around £11m would be about right, but I can’t help think a simpler stand only to start with would have been better option.

 

i certainly don’t think the finish is anywhere near as high a standard as it should be for £20m

As said I think it’s a big missed opportunity for something very special

A lot of issues again to do with the architect (who it seems I’m throwing under the bus!!).

 

limited room re height restrictions meant no boxes, tv lounge initially going in roseburn,  toilets has to be rejigged when ladies toilets turned into men’s due amount of people trying to use them at half time,  no one was considering safe standing and it’s extra cost,  wheelchair positioning is very poor I think. 
 

To be honest a lot of your points are fairly minor (position/number of TVs)remember when it started we were on a tight budget, many of these things are nice to haves.

[Governor Tarkin]

41 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Not overspend. Under budgeted.

 

 

 

Well that's one way to spin it.

[TheOak88]

43 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

Not overspend. Under budgeted.

 

Fortunately the funds to cover the difference have been met.

 

[Vlad Magic]

5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

Well that's one way to spin it.

Has the cost spent to date changed as a result of the club stating the budgeted costs at the beginning of the project?

[ramrod]

1 hour ago, FruitJuice said:

Who are the interlopers?  

They are an incredibly sad bunch of individuals pretending to support a team on their rivals forum and tottering back to .net tying to justify their actions in the name is winding up Hears fans . 

The saddest of sadsacks . 😜

[FruitJuice]

Just now, ramrod said:

They are an incredibly sad bunch of individuals pretending to support a team on their rivals forum and tottering back to .net tying to justify their actions in the name is winding up Hears fans . 

The saddest of sadsacks . 😜

I agree  😁

[i8hibsh]

1 hour ago, 77Mackay77 said:

Not it’s not. Not even close. Stop making stuff up and discuss the facts or don’t bother discussing it.

 

 

In what way is a 12 million overspend on a 12 million budget not 100% over?

[Malinga the Swinga]

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

In what way is a 12 million overspend on a 12 million budget not 100% over?

 

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

In what way is a 12 million overspend on a 12 million budget not 100% over?

 

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

In what way is a 12 million overspend on a 12 million budget not 100% over?

Why do you care as it is Tynecastle being discussed and not Easter Road where your team play. Just go back to .Net and leave this forum to Hearts supporters.

[Jambomb]

31 minutes ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

A lot of issues again to do with the architect (who it seems I’m throwing under the bus!!).

 

limited room re height restrictions meant no boxes, tv lounge initially going in roseburn,  toilets has to be rejigged when ladies toilets turned into men’s due amount of people trying to use them at half time,  no one was considering safe standing and it’s extra cost,  wheelchair positioning is very poor I think. 
 

To be honest a lot of your points are fairly minor (position/number of TVs)remember when it started we were on a tight budget, many of these things are nice to haves.

For £11m I agree that was a tight budget, but its no longer a budget build at nearly £22m.

thats my point, it’s not finished to a high standard as the overall costs suggest.

 

[Hot since 86]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

As others have said, there is not a huge overspend.

The original spec was for a very basic outfit.

As the  club's finances have improved (record turnovers etc), Hearts have increased the specifications.

We're simply adding bigger and better facilities as we can afford it.

 

It's like when you buy a house then spend more money on a new kitchen, new bathroom, new boiler, add an extension and decorate every room.

You haven't paid more for the house.

 

Was the increased spec and spend communicated to FOH members (not being wide I don’t remember seeing anything but could easily have missed it) ?

 

If not I’m more pissed off about that tbh, would have expected greater transparency in such an important project.

[i8hibsh]

8 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

 

 

Why do you care as it is Tynecastle being discussed and not Easter Road where your team play. Just go back to .Net and leave this forum to Hearts supporters.

 

 

[CJGJ]

4 minutes ago, Hot since 86 said:

Was the increased spec and spend communicated to FOH members (not being wide I don’t remember seeing anything but could easily have missed it) ?

 

If not I’m more pissed off about that tbh, would have expected greater transparency in such an important project.

Why.....you are getting far too worked up about this and one has to question why ?

 

If you fail to do your homework and ask questions when you had the opportunity then you have no one to blame but yourself...ignorance is no excuse for frankly a sloppy post

[FruitJuice]

5 minutes ago, Hot since 86 said:

Was the increased spec and spend communicated to FOH members (not being wide I don’t remember seeing anything but could easily have missed it) ?

 

If not I’m more pissed off about that tbh, would have expected greater transparency in such an important project.

Couldn't we have got it cheaper if we had put the tender out to a wider range of companies?