'New Stand update'.well an update

[CJGJ]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-new-stand-doubles-price-21214555

 

Hearts’ new stand is set to cost them almost DOUBLE the original price.

Jambos owner Ann Budge put a £12million figure on redeveloping Tynecastle’s old main stand when the plan was unveiled in 2016.

 

But now it has been revealed the price has soared to £21m – with a further £1.5m due to be spent on the final-phase second floor of the stand, which is due to go ahead later this year.

That would take the total spending on the Tynecastle Redevelopment Fund project to a staggering £22.5m – close to double the initial budget for the ambitious project.

However, Budge won’t give the go ahead for the final phase until all the money is in place for the nine-month process .

Once completed, it will provide the Premiership outfit with the potential to explore new revenue streams through hospitality and commercial ventures.

They will again be pivotal for the latest phase after Hearts finance director Jacqui Duncan revealed the full cost of the new stand, which was opened in November 2017.

Budge said: “We still have one more floor of the main stand to finish and we have looked at several different plans, covering several different uses.

“The option I believe we will go with is ready for me to press the button on but we need to ensure that we have the money because we don’t spend what we don’t have.

“It is important we finish it to the same standard and quality as we have done for the rest of the stand.

“I would have liked to have pressed the button in January but, with everything else that has gone on, I can’t see that happening much before the end of the season.

“But hopefully during 2020 we’ll have the second floor finished and that will be another major source of income for us.”

Hearts currently sit bottom of the league, with new boss Daniel Stendel looking to make significant changes to the playing squad in January.

[Herbert.]

Got to be honest for 22m it's pretty underwhelming.

[Famous 1874]

2 minutes ago, Herbert said:

Got to be honest for 22m it's pretty underwhelming.

Without trying to have a go at the board as my stance is known regarding Budge, I do agree. 

[TheOak88]

2 minutes ago, Herbert said:

Got to be honest for 22m it's pretty underwhelming.

 

You clearly haven’t seen the Sky Lounge with it’s views of Edinburgh Castle. 

[Ethan Hunt]

This is fake news. The “Tynecastle Redevelopment Fund“ as quoted encompasses more that the new stand.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Ethan Hunt

[Unknown user]

The original price was 11m, we allowed another 1m in case of overspend, but looks like it was closer to 11.5m overspend.

 

I'm a Budge supporter but that's poor, and it worries me that so few seem bothered both now and over the last couple of years. Yes there's been a benefactor but the other 15m+ is coming out of the club - that's huge money in Scottish football and feet should be held to the fire.

 

1 minute ago, Ethan Hunt said:

This is fake news. The “Tynecastle Redevelopment Fund“ as quoted encompasses more that the new stand.

 

No it isn't, the budget always included the redevelopment not just the stand.

[Footballfirst]

Just sounds like the Record has just caught up with the information that was given at the Club's AGM.

 

Alternatively the Club may have provided news outlets with the minutes and slides from the AGM, although I can't find anything of that nature on the Club's website to share that information with shareholders.

 

Edit: At the AGM, it was £21.6m that was mentioned as the spend to date, not £21m

Edited January 4, 2020 by Footballfirst

[kingantti1874]

This is old news right? But that aside we shouldn’t spend another penny on this just now.. take all of that £1.5m and spend it on players 

[Jambof3tornado]

16 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-new-stand-doubles-price-21214555

 

Hearts’ new stand is set to cost them almost DOUBLE the original price.

Jambos owner Ann Budge put a £12million figure on redeveloping Tynecastle’s old main stand when the plan was unveiled in 2016.

 

But now it has been revealed the price has soared to £21m – with a further £1.5m due to be spent on the final-phase second floor of the stand, which is due to go ahead later this year.

That would take the total spending on the Tynecastle Redevelopment Fund project to a staggering £22.5m – close to double the initial budget for the ambitious project.

However, Budge won’t give the go ahead for the final phase until all the money is in place for the nine-month process .

Once completed, it will provide the Premiership outfit with the potential to explore new revenue streams through hospitality and commercial ventures.

They will again be pivotal for the latest phase after Hearts finance director Jacqui Duncan revealed the full cost of the new stand, which was opened in November 2017.

Budge said: “We still have one more floor of the main stand to finish and we have looked at several different plans, covering several different uses.

“The option I believe we will go with is ready for me to press the button on but we need to ensure that we have the money because we don’t spend what we don’t have.

“It is important we finish it to the same standard and quality as we have done for the rest of the stand.

“I would have liked to have pressed the button in January but, with everything else that has gone on, I can’t see that happening much before the end of the season.

“But hopefully during 2020 we’ll have the second floor finished and that will be another major source of income for us.”

Hearts currently sit bottom of the league, with new boss Daniel Stendel looking to make significant changes to the playing squad in January.

You could have pushed the button in January if you'd pulled the trigger last june!!

[Ethan Hunt]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

The original price was 11m, we allowed another 1m in case of overspend, but looks like it was closer to 11.5m overspend.

 

I'm a Budge supporter but that's poor, and it worries me that so few seem bothered both now and over the last couple of years. Yes there's been a benefactor but the other 15m+ is coming out of the club - that's huge money in Scottish football and feet should be held to the fire.

 

 

No it isn't, the budget always included the redevelopment not just the stand.

So their headline -

 

Hearts new stand DOUBLES in price as Ann Budge reveals target for completion

 

isnt at all misleading then. Other parts of the redevelopment could equally have went over budget.

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Just sounds like the Record has just caught up with the information that was given at the Club's AGM.

 

Alternatively the Club may have provided news outlets with the minutes and slides from the AGM, although I can't find anything of that nature on the Club's website to share that information with shareholders.

 

Edit: At the AGM, it was £21.6m that was mentioned as the spend to date, not £21m

Correct. Old news but certainly worth discussion. 

[XB52]

So the daily rangers prints a story from the last decade, and one of our resident club haters jumps on it; nothing changes

Edited January 4, 2020 by XB52

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

So their headline -

 

Hearts new stand DOUBLES in price as Ann Budge reveals target for completion

 

isnt at all misleading then. Other parts of the redevelopment could equally have went over budget.

Fair enough, I pay zero attention to headlines myself, hadn't picked up on that. The project's double what we thought it would be though, 22.5 million gbp. That must be close to 3 times our annual playing budget.

[Pants Shaton]

Not news 

 

 

[Yoda]

Quiet news day at the Daily Ranger.  Old news.

[Ethan Hunt]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Fair enough, I pay zero attention to headlines myself, hadn't picked up on that. The project's double what we thought it would be though, 22.5 million gbp. That must be close to 3 times our annual playing budget.

It was meant to be 11.5 million - which was planned for - so the additional monies - whatever that ends up being - is what could have been re-invested in the squad.  

 

Between AB’s mismanagement of the Tynecastle redevelopment, and CL’s mismanagement of the football squad, we’re sitting in a relegation position when we should be seriously challenging for trophies. 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Ethan Hunt said:

It was meant to be 11.5 million - which was planned for - so the additional monies - whatever that ends up being - is what could have been re-invested in the squad.  

 

Between AB’s mismanagement of the Tynecastle redevelopment, and CL’s mismanagement of the football squad, we’re sitting in a relegation position when we should be seriously challenging for trophies. 

The additional monies seemed to have been pretty much covered by the ‘benefactors’. Would they have contributed solely for first team development - I ‘don’t know. 

[The Roller]

The only thing I can say about this is I’m astounded this overspend hasn’t resulted in us being many millions in debt.

 

Delighted with the main stand but that’s a lotttttttttttttttt of cash.

[Footballfirst]

The only relevant slide that was shown at the AGM was this one

 

 

The information is different from that provided at the 2018 AGM

 

 

There is a mismatch with the Club resources/Cash from operations figure of £6.7m in 2018 but only £6m in 2019. However the reduction in the "reserves" of £1m could also be designated as club resources.

 

I find the FOH contribution of £5.7m a bit misleading.  A rough calculation of FOH "donations" - dates aren't 100% accurate but are indicative:

In 2014 FOH provided £1m up front (for professional fees and to pay football creditors)

In season 2014/15 FOH provided £1.4m (as working capital)

In season 2015/16 FOH provided £1.4m + a further £250k (as working capital)

In season 2016/17 FOH provided £1.5m (for stand funding)

In season 2017/18 FOH provided £1.5m (for stand funding)

From 2018/19 onwards FOH funds have gone to repay the Bidco loan.

 

The highlighted figures would give you £4.7m (rounded up), but does not show if prior donations helped generate the surplus designated as "club resources".

 

Ultimately all the club resources are hugely dependent on supporters, either buying match tickets, catering, hospitality and retail goods.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Footballfirst

[Unknown user]

Just now, davemclaren said:

The additional monies seemed to have been pretty much covered by the ‘benefactors’. Would they have contributed solely for first team development - I ‘don’t know. 

IIRC 3m of overspend came from the benefactor. It could have been a bit more TBF, I don't recall the figures, but it was less than half the 11.5 million overspend.

[jake]

Is the breakdown of costs etc available or is it private.

Construction can and does go over initial estimates but this is a lot of money.

Is there other builds that we can compare with.

I dont want to open up wounds but there are questions that need answered about who was awarded which work.

I wonder if the benefactors are happy.

 

[heartsfc_fan]

Ah well. Still about a third cheaper than building a soulless bowl in the middle of a field out of town.

[Ethan Hunt]

9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

The additional monies seemed to have been pretty much covered by the ‘benefactors’. Would they have contributed solely for first team development - I ‘don’t know. 

The mismanagement of both parties surely can’t be up for debate, regardless of who paid for it.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Ethan Hunt

[Unknown user]

Just now, jake said:

Is the breakdown of costs etc available or is it private.

Construction can and does go over initial estimates but this is a lot of money.

Is there other builds that we can compare with.

I dont want to open up wounds but there are questions that need answered about who was awarded which work.

I wonder if the benefactors are happy.

 

 

I do want answers but it's too late to really mean anything now. Nothing can be changed, decisions have been made, we're committed. We should have been demanding answers long ago.

 

 

2 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

Ah well. Still about a third cheaper than building a soulless bowl in the middle of a field out of town.

 

I honestly think that new stadium could kill aberdeen, imagine if their 50m budget doubled!

[JamboGraham]

It’s a catchy headline but I was very aware that a number of posters (identifying themselves as being in construction) stated that the original ‘budget’ was unrealistic before a brick was laid.

 

In terms of our discussions I suppose the relevant points would be (1) What is/was a realistic price tag for the stand/facilities we now have? (2) What is the actual increase/over spend from that realistic figure? (3) Do we understand why the cost has increased/is the increase reasonable? (4) Have we made improvements to governance/cost management as the redevelopment project moved from stage to stage (5) In terms of expected/planned benefits from the new facilities how are we comparing to budget, etc.

 

If the benefit/return has increased in line/in excess of spend (regardless of that spend compared to original budget) then we can start to make judgements about the ‘success’ of the project.

[jake]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

I do want answers but it's too late to really mean anything now. Nothing can be changed, decisions have been made, we're committed. We should have been demanding answers long ago.

 

 

 

I honestly think that new stadium could kill aberdeen, imagine if their 50m budget doubled!

Yes I agree mate.

I do think we all have let Budge get on with it.

But again I ask what role do our FOH reps play in this.

Theres a fair bit of concern about certain aspects of contracts awarded and jobs handed out.

Now I'm not suggesting anything is untoward but this is our money .

Well most of it is.

I feel that needs some openness and although we may not be able to rectify it.

Then we should learn from it.

 

[Baxfee]

It’s the price for staying at gorgie. Would have been much easier to have moved away and built in the outskirts. Would have hated that so accept the costs we are now facing 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Baxfee said:

It’s the price for staying at gorgie. Would have been much easier to have moved away and built in the outskirts. Would have hated that so accept the costs we are now facing 

Totally agree! Our future in gorgie secured for years to come 

[jake]

4 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

It’s a catchy headline but I was very aware that a number of posters (identifying themselves as being in construction) stated that the original ‘budget’ was unrealistic before a brick was laid.

 

In terms of our discussions I suppose the relevant points would be (1) What is/was a realistic price tag for the stand/facilities we now have? (2) What is the actual increase/over spend from that realistic figure? (3) Do we understand why the cost has increased/is the increase reasonable? (4) Have we made improvements to governance/cost management as the redevelopment project moved from stage to stage (5) In terms of expected/planned benefits from the new facilities how are we comparing to budget, etc.

 

If the benefit/return has increased in line/in excess of spend (regardless of that spend compared to original budget) then we can start to make judgements about the ‘success’ of the project.

What I was trying to say but not as well.

Also lessons need to be learned and checks balances for the future.

Just the start really and most Hearts supporters are still on board but I think we need to be more of an open book if that's commercially possible.

[jake]

3 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

It’s the price for staying at gorgie. Would have been much easier to have moved away and built in the outskirts. Would have hated that so accept the costs we are now facing 

That's fine mate but doesnt mean we shouldn't be diligent.

 

[Last Laff]

Old news.  Still absolutely mental. 

[davemclaren]

15 minutes ago, Ethan Hunt said:

The mismanagement of both parties surely can’t be up for debate, regardless of who paid for it.

Everything is always up for debate. As @Francis Albert once asked, it would be useful to see a comparison of the original plans against the actuals with a rationale for variances.  

[Jambo-Fox]

Who cares? Twice the price BUT twice as good ...... it will pay for itself many times over ..... imagine in 2025 thinking what Hearts would be like without it? Unimaginable!!

[wattie exploited]

great more money spent on a stand that will be half empty if we get relegated spend any money we have on the team  first  

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, wattie exploited said:

great more money spent on a stand that will be half empty if we get relegated spend any money we have on the team  first  

I think that’s the plan 

[Herbert.]

1 hour ago, TheOak88 said:

 

You clearly haven’t seen the Sky Lounge with it’s views of Edinburgh Castle. 

 

 

I can see Edinburgh castle from my grans house that doesn't make it worth 22M. 

[Rocky jamboa]

I'm surprised ann Budge hasn't been questioned on this or provided an explanation as to why the costs have increased so much.

 

As others have said, put the final £1.5m into the team and put the second floor fit out on hold.

 

No point having loads of fancy executive suites, which the majority of fans wont use anyway, especially if we were to go down!

Edited January 5, 2020 by Paulp74

[wattie exploited]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I think that’s the plan 

it will not go down well if AB spends cash on the stand before getting the players in I hope that its just another wind up from the sun trying to cause bother as usual 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, wattie exploited said:

it will not go down well if AB spends cash on the stand before getting the players in I hope that its just another wind up from the sun trying to cause bother as usual 

I think that’s not the plan. 

[Coburg Hearts]

17 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

It’s the price for staying at gorgie. Would have been much easier to have moved away and built in the outskirts. Would have hated that so accept the costs we are now facing 

This is the bottom line, and when everything is finished we will reap the benefits for generations to come. 

It has been a while, though, since we had a bash Ann Budge thread - a few days - so bash on bashing.  

[Coburg Hearts]

4 minutes ago, wattie exploited said:

it will not go down well if AB spends cash on the stand before getting the players in I hope that its just another wind up from the sun trying to cause bother as usual 

Did you actually read it?

[Thomaso]

As I’ve said previously the problem was that the Architect and Quantity Surveyor put together a totally unrealistic cost plan for the work.

For instance they put in a sum of £450k for the electrical and mechanical work - the cheapest tender they got was £1.3m!

£12m was never going to cut it and a Hearts supporting friend of mine who was an MD in a major contractor priced up the job at £18m.

[davemclaren]

Just now, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

As I’ve said previously the problem was that the Architect and Quantity Surveyor put together a totally unrealistic cost plan for the work.

For instance they put in a sum of £450k for the electrical and mechanical work - the cheapest tender they got was £1.3m!

£12m was never going to cut it and a Hearts supporting friend of mine who was an MD in a major contractor priced up the job at £18m.

That’s what tend to happen with rushed planning. 

[Jambo-Fox]

I suspect a lot of trades people saw an opportunity when Hearts had their backs to the wall on the timeline for completion ....

[Thomaso]

Just now, davemclaren said:

That’s what tend to happen with rushed planning. 

The design was rushed to meet the nursery deadline, but there was no excuse for the Quantity Surveyor not taking cost advice for his cost plan from those ‘Hearts minded’ in the construction sector. They had time to do that but basically guessed prices.

[ShedBoy]

Embra trams 

 

Projected £375 million

 

Actual £776 million

 

 

Scottish Parliament

 

Projected £40 million

 

Actual £414 million

 

Don't be so hard on ourselves.

 

IMHO we done good 😂👍🏻

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by ShedBoy

[jimbojambo]

I feel that our marketing people are on top of their game and will fit it out in line with where they have identified future opportunities and it will be money we'll spent. The playing budget has been badly spent but I feel is separate from the commercial side. Ann must back Stendel and hope Levein manages to get rid of the dross he wasted all most of his budget on. 

[richierich]

Is it just me that thinks the Stand has been done as an IT style agile project?  Provide the minimum product and upgrade it in iterations?  I can see where they are going with it if it is, and possibly the budget was for the MVP, with the increase in the future development as we have the funds/ideas available?  

 

I might be well off the mark but that's the way I've seen this project since it began?

 

Just how I pick it up as the budget being for the minimum product stadium, it's we way we work on IT projects, so don't have a go at me I'm on the wrong track?

[Jingle Bells]

You'd expect some Ionic columns oot the front  for that amount.

[pettigrewsstylist]

Very very dissapointing. Am i imagining someone jabbing me and about to have a go at my wallet again......