General Election 2019

[doctor jambo]

Just now, Old Hearts said:

Exactly.

 

So, if these polls do pan out in the Election for real (ha!), and SNP only get around 44% of the vote in Scotland...........where's the mandate for IndyRef2??

 

This question is not aimed at you, this is aimed at the Nationalists that were, earlier in this thread, claiming that winning 45+ seats gave them a mandate.

There is none.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

20 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

There is none.

 

100% the only reason  they win as many seats is the fact the pro union vote is split by a lot more parties. 

[Cade]

So to be considered to have a mandate for a 2nd IndyRef, having a majority of MSPs and MPs in Scotland belonging to parties who support independence isn't good enough, and only a simple majority of votes will satisfy?

So that means you want to hold a psuedo-referendum on holding another one?

 

Bizarre.

Unionists are growing in desperation, as has been seen in the Scottish Tories becoming a single issue party of protest.

[Old Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

So to be considered to have a mandate for a 2nd IndyRef, having a majority of MSPs and MPs in Scotland belonging to parties who support independence isn't good enough, and only a simple majority of votes will satisfy?

So that means you want to hold a psuedo-referendum on holding another one?

 

Bizarre.

Unionists are growing in desperation, as has been seen in the Scottish Tories becoming a single issue party of protest.

No. Having the majority of MSPs and MPs is NOT good enough. ...... The majority of the PEOPLE in Scotland have to agree that they want Scottish Independence. That's democracy.

 

[doctor jambo]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

So to be considered to have a mandate for a 2nd IndyRef, having a majority of MSPs and MPs in Scotland belonging to parties who support independence isn't good enough, and only a simple majority of votes will satisfy?

So that means you want to hold a psuedo-referendum on holding another one?

 

Bizarre.

Unionists are growing in desperation, as has been seen in the Scottish Tories becoming a single issue party of protest.

There is no desperation amongst unionists.

Many of us vote SNP as we cannot stomach labour or the Tories.

However we are safe in the knowledge that we would vote "no" again, so a second ref is not really a threat.

Its just a massive waste of money and energy

[Ray Gin]

10 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

No. Having the majority of MSPs and MPs is NOT good enough. ...... The majority of the PEOPLE in Scotland have to agree that they want Scottish Independence. That's democracy.

 

 

If it's looking like half the population might want it, you should have a referendum on it to decide.

 

Oh look: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5005960/scottish-independence-nats-snp-general-election/

 

50/50 split in the latest poll.

 

[Ray Gin]

18 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

There is no desperation amongst unionists.

Many of us vote SNP as we cannot stomach labour or the Tories.

However we are safe in the knowledge that we would vote "no" again, so a second ref is not really a threat.

Its just a massive waste of money and energy

 

 

If you can't stomach the Tories, why are you happy for Scotland to continue to get lumped with them because England votes them in?

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

3 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Warning - this post contains generalisation!
 

Quite depressing to think that the baby boom generation, that has found any opportunity to throw how shite life was under Thatcher down our throats on a daily basis for decades, are going to be responsible for keeping her male manifestation in number 10 for another term. Pure stubbornness and we’re supposed to pay them respect that isn’t in anyway repaid.  My generation and the next are slated for being lazy and “not knowing we’re born”.

 

Meanwhile, the next two generations are saddled with austerity and debt, and no guarantees of even a remotely comfortable retirement, whilst we pay tax and NI to pay their state pensions to top up their generous guaranteed scheme pensions.  

 

There’s a lower age threshold on voting.  Time to consider an upper age threshold as well me thinks.

 

 

3 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

I have said this for a very long time.

Those of us still working are supporting the richest generation that have ever existed.

When we eventually collapse into retirement utterly burnt out none of what they enjoy will still exist.

The boomers are demanding free this and free that but will fiercely resist any suggestion they help pay for it all. The people who work- all of us, regardless of whether you earn £20 k  or £200 k are being bled dry.

 

 

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

I actually agree with your last statement. My own mother (whos in her late 80’s) said she’s voting Labour. I asked why and she said “Ive always voted Labour” 
 

Theres millions of them all voting Labour/tory/Lib-Dem because “they always have”.

 

I’m going to say you should be able to vote for 60 years. 16 to 76. Done!

What a trio of bigots you are.

 

Disgusting!

[jack D and coke]

49 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

No. Having the majority of MSPs and MPs is NOT good enough. ...... The majority of the PEOPLE in Scotland have to agree that they want Scottish Independence. That's democracy.

 

So a Uk government generally gets voted in by about 30% of the population. 70% don’t get what they want. Same with Brexit. 
What exactly is your point? Shifting the goalposts? 

[doctor jambo]

15 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

 

 

What a trio of bigots you are.

 

Disgusting!

in what way?

Everyone votes out of self interest.

The boomers are no different, and have been the only demographic that have seen their incomes rise every single year over the last decade at the cost and expense of everyone else- triple locks, TV license, winter fuel allowance, free travel.

 

vs

 

benefits cuts, pay freezes, tax hikes, raised retirement ages,  raised pension contributions

[Old Hearts]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

So a Uk government generally gets voted in by about 30% of the population. 70% don’t get what they want. Same with Brexit. 
What exactly is your point? Shifting the goalposts? 

My point is exactly that.......number of seats alone is NOT a mandate for holding an IndyRef2, like many on here were claiming.

 

Scottish Independence is a referendum issue, so needs 50%+ in favour. ...... Say on 12th Dec, SNP win 45-50 seats with a 40% share of the overall vote. .... Is that a mandate for IndyRef2??

 

 

[manaliveits105]

27 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

 

 

What a trio of bigots you are.

 

Disgusting!

Don't be stupid

Be a smarty

Come and join the Scottish Nasty Party 

[jumpship]

LBC Radio,  the only radio station you should listen to. Utterly rips any politician to bits. 

 

They had BoJo on this morning and he basically humiliated himself.  Didnt\couldn't answer any question put to him. 

 

The amazing thing is, you still get folk on the show trying to support BoJo, they all get humiliated as well.  

[Ray Gin]

 

7 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

My point is exactly that.......number of seats alone is NOT a mandate for holding an IndyRef2, like many on here were claiming.

 

Scottish Independence is a referendum issue, so needs 50%+ in favour. ...... Say on 12th Dec, SNP win 45-50 seats with a 40% share of the overall vote. .... Is that a mandate for IndyRef2??

 

 

 

The poll I linked above have SNP winning a 44% share of the General Election votes, but with a 50/50 split on the independence question. So yes, that's a mandate for IndyRef2.

 

[Old Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

The poll I linked above have SNP winning a 44% share of the General Election votes, but with a 50/50 split on the independence question. So yes, that's a mandate for IndyRef2.

 

No it isn't. Poll results aren't a mandate for anything!!!!

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

My point is exactly that.......number of seats alone is NOT a mandate for holding an IndyRef2, like many on here were claiming.

 

Scottish Independence is a referendum issue, so needs 50%+ in favour. ...... Say on 12th Dec, SNP win 45-50 seats with a 40% share of the overall vote. .... Is that a mandate for IndyRef2??

 

 

It used to be according to Margaret Thatcher. 
In all honesty I think people will attempt to keep shifting the goalposts regardless to make it seem unachievable. 


 

[jack D and coke]

15 minutes ago, jumpship said:

LBC Radio,  the only radio station you should listen to. Utterly rips any politician to bits. 

 

They had BoJo on this morning and he basically humiliated himself.  Didnt\couldn't answer any question put to him. 

 

The amazing thing is, you still get folk on the show trying to support BoJo, they all get humiliated as well.  

It is pretty good. James O’Brien takes them to task. 
Johnson is an utter fraud. I can hardly comprehend anyone from up here hoping for his government. 

[coconut doug]

3 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

No it isn't. Poll results aren't a mandate for anything!!!!

 

What do we need for a mandate for Indyref 2 then?

[Old Hearts]

Just now, coconut doug said:

 

What do we need for a mandate for Indyref 2 then?

50%+ of the share of the vote on 12th Dec and you without doubt have your mandate......

[coconut doug]

Just now, Old Hearts said:

50%+ of the share of the vote on 12th Dec and you without doubt have your mandate......

 

50% of the vote where?

[Old Hearts]

4 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

50% of the vote where?

50% of the vote for SNP across Scotland and you have your mandate.....

[coconut doug]

8 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

50% of the vote for SNP across Scotland and you have your mandate.....

 

What about the Indy supporters voting for other parties?

 

[Ray Gin]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

What about the Indy supporters voting for other parties?

 

 

Apparently they don't count

[doctor jambo]

19 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It is pretty good. James O’Brien takes them to task. 
Johnson is an utter fraud. I can hardly comprehend anyone from up here hoping for his government. 

probably because the alternative is Corbyn.

The UK needs a majority government as it has been utterly paralysed for years now.

So its either Corbyn or Johnson.

While one pretends to be an idiot, and is potentially harmful.

The other one would quite feasibly leave the UK as a smoking economic wasteland

[doctor jambo]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Apparently they don't count

They do count, though apparently not to 51

[manaliveits105]

We would need a referendum to decide whether we should have an indyref2 - only fair 

then a confirmation referendum on the result of the first referendum before an indy ref2 and then a confirmation indyref2 - going on snp apparent policy 

[The Real Maroonblood]

46 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Don't be stupid

Be a smarty

Come and join the Scottish Nasty Party 

[Old Hearts]

12 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

What about the Indy supporters voting for other parties?

 

Like who??

 

We keep being told the only party in town if you want Scottish Independence is SNP???

[Cade]

Daily Mail buys the (i) paper

 

The right-wing grip on the nation's media tightens fuhrer further

[Cade]

Folk playing stupid arses because they have no idea what "mandate" means in a representative first past the post democracy

 

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Old Hearts said:

Like who??

 

We keep being told the only party in town if you want Scottish Independence is SNP???

 

Again, the poll above has 48% supporting independence (along with 48% against), but only 44% voting SNP. There are clearly non-SNP voters who want Independence, evidenced by that poll.

 

[Unknown user]

51 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

My point is exactly that.......number of seats alone is NOT a mandate for holding an IndyRef2, like many on here were claiming.

 

Scottish Independence is a referendum issue, so needs 50%+ in favour. ...... Say on 12th Dec, SNP win 45-50 seats with a 40% share of the overall vote. .... Is that a mandate for IndyRef2??

 

 

 

SNP votes don't tally with those who want independence though, general elections aren't single issue referendums.

 

There are unionists who'll vote snp because they like how they govern, and there are nationalists who won't go near them.

[Ray Gin]

52 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Don't be stupid

Be a smarty

Come and join the Scottish Nasty Party 

 

[jack D and coke]

19 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

probably because the alternative is Corbyn.

The UK needs a majority government as it has been utterly paralysed for years now.

So its either Corbyn or Johnson.

While one pretends to be an idiot, and is potentially harmful.

The other one would quite feasibly leave the UK as a smoking economic wasteland

It’s hard to believe what Labour are all about these days. Up here and down there they’re an utter shambles and ran by imbeciles. 

[Cade]

Boris announces plans to bail out companies that go bust due to Brexit.

 

What a feckin communist

 

[Ray Gin]

Tory Car Crash Part 2

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Ray Gin

[Brighton Jambo]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

in what way?

Everyone votes out of self interest.

The boomers are no different, and have been the only demographic that have seen their incomes rise every single year over the last decade at the cost and expense of everyone else- triple locks, TV license, winter fuel allowance, free travel.

 

vs

 

benefits cuts, pay freezes, tax hikes, raised retirement ages,  raised pension contributions

Thing is though the Conservatives in the last manifesto proposed means testing winter fuel allowance and got slaughtered for it by all the other parties.

 

they also proposed removing the pension triple lock and got slaughtered for it. 

 

same with the proposal to remove the free TV license has caused outrage. 

 

typical politics, the evil big bad conservatives try and introduce policies that actually most people agree with and they get torn apart for it.  Now those polices which would give more income and would allow wealth to be better distributed are no where to be seen in any parties manifesto.  

[King prawn]

That interview can't be real, surely! It's like something out of The Thick of It. 

Edited November 29, 2019 by King prawn

[Mikey1874]

25 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

Tory Car Crash Part 2

 

 

Hearts new signings in January include 2 already at the club

[Old Hearts]

46 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Again, the poll above has 48% supporting independence (along with 48% against), but only 44% voting SNP. There are clearly non-SNP voters who want Independence, evidenced by that poll.

 

Both figures quoted are less that 50% though, so no mandate.

 

And to context those above figures......this is at a time when Westminster has been a total sh*tstorm. Hardly compelling figures of support.

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Old Hearts said:

Both figures quoted are less that 50% though, so no mandate.

 

And to context those above figures......this is at a time when Westminster has been a total sh*tstorm. Hardly compelling figures of support.

 

48% leave

48% don't leave

4% undecided

 

That's a mandate, that 4% could go either way.

[Old Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

48% leave

48% don't leave

4% undecided

 

That's a mandate, that 4% could go either way.

That's a poll

[Cade]

Mandate

noun

The authority given to an elected group of people, such as a government, to perform an action or govern a country

 

2017: Tories had 42.4% of the vote. Not a mandate according to you.

2015: Tories had 36.9%
2010: Tories had 36.1%
2005: Labour had 35.2%
2001: Labour had 40.7%
1997: Labour had 43.2%
1992: Tories had 41.9%
1987: Tories had 42.2%
1983: Tories had 42.4%
1979: Tories had 43.9%
Oct 1974: Labour had 39.2%
Feb 1974: Labour had 37.2%
1970: Tories had 46.4%

1966: Labour had 48.0%
1964: Labour had 44.1%

1959: Tories had 49.4%

1955: Tories had 49.7%

1951: Tories had 48.0%

1950: Labour had 46.1%

1945: Labour had 47.7%

1935: Tories had 48.7%

1931: Tories had 55%

 

Nae wonder we're in such a mess. 

Nobody has had a mandate since 1931.

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Cade

[Ray Gin]

9 minutes ago, Cade said:

Mandate

noun

The authority given to an elected group of people, such as a government, to perform an action or govern a country

 

2017: Tories had 42.4% of the vote. Not a mandate according to you.

2015: Tories had 36.9%
2010: Tories had 36.1%
2005: Labour had 35.2%
2001: Labour had 40.7%
1997: Labour had 43.2%
1992: Tories had 41.9%
1987: Tories had 42.2%
1983: Tories had 42.4%
1979: Tories had 43.9%
Oct 1974: Labour had 39.2%
Feb 1974: Labour had 37.2%
1970: Tories had 46.4%

1966: Labour had 48.0%
1964: Labour had 44.1%

1959: Tories had 49.4%

1955: Tories had 49.7%

1951: Tories had 48.0%

1950: Labour had 46.1%

1945: Labour had 47.7%

1935: Tories had 48.7%

1931: Tories had 55%

 

Nae wonder we're in such a mess. 

Nobody has had a mandate since 1931.

 

 

Ah but the Tories can add 20% by simply convincing 20% of people who already voted for them not to change their minds. This is the same thing as additional numbers in Tory land.

 

 

[Old Hearts]

17 minutes ago, Cade said:

Mandate

noun

The authority given to an elected group of people, such as a government, to perform an action or govern a country

 

2017: Tories had 42.4% of the vote. Not a mandate according to you.

2015: Tories had 36.9%
2010: Tories had 36.1%
2005: Labour had 35.2%
2001: Labour had 40.7%
1997: Labour had 43.2%
1992: Tories had 41.9%
1987: Tories had 42.2%
1983: Tories had 42.4%
1979: Tories had 43.9%
Oct 1974: Labour had 39.2%
Feb 1974: Labour had 37.2%
1970: Tories had 46.4%

1966: Labour had 48.0%
1964: Labour had 44.1%

1959: Tories had 49.4%

1955: Tories had 49.7%

1951: Tories had 48.0%

1950: Labour had 46.1%

1945: Labour had 47.7%

1935: Tories had 48.7%

1931: Tories had 55%

 

Nae wonder we're in such a mess. 

Nobody has had a mandate since 1931.

 

 

You need to get out more. What a saddo 🤣

 

But but but, this is about a referendum though I thought?? ..... Crack on with that mandate. You will lose........again 😎

[Captain Sausage]

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

Tory Car Crash Part 2

 

That has to be one of the worst interviews I’ve ever seen. 
 

Hancock is an absolute cretin. Why can’t they just hold their hands up and say ‘look, we made a mistake. Your numbers are correct.’ Instead they argue that retention is equivalent to recruitment. What absolute bollocks. 
 

This sort of shit makes my blood boil. It’s deliberate dishonesty and a refusal to accept you’ve been caught out. 

[Ray Gin]

2 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

You need to get out more. What a saddo 🤣

 

But but but, this is about a referendum though I thought?? ..... Crack on with that mandate. You will lose........again 😎

 

He's done you like a kipper so you resort to calling him a saddo.  

[Old Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

He's done you like a kipper so you resort to calling him a saddo.  

Clearly is a saddo to go to those lengths.

 

You lot crack on though thinking you have a 'mandate'. Will be delighted to see you all crushed again like you were in 2014. 

 

Will you lot actually accept democracy this time though? Doubt it.

[Cade]

5 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

He's done you like a kipper so you resort to calling him a saddo.  

[Boof]

2 hours ago, Old Hearts said:

50% of the vote for SNP across Scotland and you have your mandate.....

 

What about other pro-independence parties?