Levein’s time is up...

[feedthefox]

If we had a different manager managing the same squad of players where would we be in the league?

 

I see Hibs with what I'd consider to be a pretty average squad probably not a million miles away from ours suddenly from nowhere be right behind us in the league following the appointment of a manager I'd never heard off. Hibs could well be above Hearts by the time we play them on April 6th, I mean where the **** has that come from?

 

 

[Cynic]

5 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

Have you ever thought that the players are playing to instructions. I watched the rugby yesterday in preference to going to Hamiltom (seemed like a good choice) and I was amazed at the turnaround in Scotland's play and it seems after reading today's match reports that Finn Russell had an argument about tactics with Townsend at the half time break.

 

So there was an example of players playing to the Coaches instructions and going in at the break 31 - 0 down. The end result was 38 -38 mainly due to that argument and a change of tactic resulting in a huge resurgence in the Scots style of play.

 

I believe that we have a decent squad of players at Hearts and they are showing by the way they are playing that they don't like or agree with the way he wants them to play. Short of coming out and saying we don't like him as our Coach what else can they do.

 

One of his comments after yesterday's game was  he is at a loss to understand the players performance. I think a large number of the fans know where the problem lies and it is not with the players.

 

CL is the master of excuses so if he were to go I think we all know that it would be put down to his health situation.

Maybe Finn Russell should have been in charge for the previous pumpings! I take he should replace Townsend and the players were showing they didnt agree with Townsend 's tactics up to half time in the England game?

The players are well paid to represent our club. If as you suggest they aren't trying a leg because they disagree with the managers tactics that is not acceptable to me, obviously it is to you. As i said in my first post the lack of fight and leadership on the park is down to the players. The team selected to play Hamilton should have won, bollocks to tactics.

 

Your comment about Levein's health is below the belt. Whatever else he is a Hearts man through and through regardless of any failings he has.

[3fingersreid]

3 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

I think that is right, he sounds very downbeat when giving pre match interviews. Not very inspiring

Said it before , but I often see teams as a reflection of the manager , your last sentence is bang on 

[JamboGraham]

1 hour ago, Paulp74 said:

Following on from this, what would happen when we become fully fan owned? It's clear most people want a change of management so would the club/FOH push through the wishes of the majority of fans?

 

1 hour ago, WageThief said:

 

Yes, every 2nd or 3rd week.

 

Genuinely gives me the fear and my biggest concern about a fan owned future...could you imagine all of conflicting views expressed every day on here backed up with an added sense of entitlement where we all believe that we are a co-owner...

[The Doc]

2 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

 

Genuinely gives me the fear and my biggest concern about a fan owned future...could you imagine all of conflicting views expressed every day on here backed up with an added sense of entitlement where we all believe that we are a co-owner...

 

I don’t see why.

 

Nothing will have changed. We pay our money now and a board of directors make the decisions.

 

When we’re fan owned a board of directors will still make the decisions.

 

Some people are struggling to grasp this.

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, The Doc said:

 

I don’t see why.

 

Nothing will have changed. We pay our money now and a board of directors make the decisions.

 

When we’re fan owned a board of directors will still make the decisions.

 

Some people are struggling to grasp this.

Indeed. 

[Cruyff Turn]

1 minute ago, The Doc said:

 

I don’t see why.

 

Nothing will have changed. We pay our money now and a board of directors make the decisions.

 

When we’re fan owned a board of directors will still make the decisions.

 

Some people are struggling to grasp this.

Exactly. Some folk seriously can’t think actual run of the mills Hearts fans will be making decisions at board level?

[JamboGraham]

9 minutes ago, The Doc said:

 

I don’t see why.

 

Nothing will have changed. We pay our money now and a board of directors make the decisions.

 

When we’re fan owned a board of directors will still make the decisions.

 

Some people are struggling to grasp this.

 

Everything and nothing will have changed...that’s pretty clear from the governance structure.

 

I can’t see any way that the support in general doesn’t become even less tolerant under a fan owned model.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Everything and nothing will have changed...that’s pretty clear from the governance structure.

 

I can’t see any way that the support in general doesn’t become even less tolerant under a fan owned model.

Your last sentence is a good point. 

[The Doc]

Just now, JamboGraham said:

 

Everything and nothing will have changed...that’s pretty clear from the governance structure.

 

I can’t see any way that the support in general doesn’t become even less tolerant under a fan owned model.

 

I think you’ll be surprised.

 

A minority of fans currently behave like entitled arseholes and I’d expect similar after the transition.

 

The vast majority know the score.

[JamboGraham]

9 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Exactly. Some folk seriously can’t think actual run of the mills Hearts fans will be making decisions at board level?

 

Of course we won’t (thankfully) but the illusion is there with the label of fan ownership. Of the 8,000 membership how many fully understand the governance structure (how many even care?), you just need to look at any thread discussing FOH models, governance, etc. to see that a tiny percentage of this board engage in that type of discussion.

 

I suspect there will be wild gnashing of teeth at some point in future when actual fan power is tested post handover...

 

 

[jambali]

The frequently used phrase "Fan owned, not fan run" surely isn't that challenging to understand?

[Pistol1874]

3 hours ago, Brauhauser2012 said:

I disagree. I think Ann is a tremendous asset and I think as a capable business woman she's unlikely to accept failure for long. Any one thinking shes a soft touch needs their head examined.

Mrs Budge surely knows full well the most underperforming area of the club is the playing side. The most important part of it all.

Almost all of us at the outset wanted Levein to succeed, following Cathro’s departure.

We have heard that he has little to no involvement early in the week, leaving it to his coaching staff before he gets involved on the Thursday and Friday. The performance of the team indicates strongly that this is not working. 

So back to Mrs Budge. She like the rest of us has to assess what she’s seeing and decide whether or not to back the status quo.

In doing so, I’d ask her to sit honestly and think back over the football she has watched this season and ask herself when last she enjoyed watching Hearts.  

When did we last play well? We have won games, yes, but when was the last time she enjoyed a game? We have no divine right, but Saturday was a disgrace and there have been too many really poor performances since our good start withered and died.

Looking at the fixtures we have had this calendar year, what does the reality look like against her realistic expectation? You can pretty much ignore the Scottish Cup, we’ve had Livingston and Auchinleck at home and a replay win over a Partick Thistle side desperately trying to avoid back to back relegation.

Given our modest schedule, is the constant rotation of the team necessary and has it worked?

If and when she asks herself these questions, there should, sadly for Craig Levein and those of us who craved his success, be only one outcome.

[Cruyff Turn]

20 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Of course we won’t (thankfully) but the illusion is there with the label of fan ownership. Of the 8,000 membership how many fully understand the governance structure (how many even care?), you just need to look at any thread discussing FOH models, governance, etc. to see that a tiny percentage of this board engage in that type of discussion.

 

I suspect there will be wild gnashing of teeth at some point in future when actual fan power is tested post handover...

 

 

You’re right about that. I know absolutely nothing about it. I don’t even pay attention to it tbh. The only thing I was interested in was ensuring the clubs future when I signed up.

 

As as far as I’m concerned, the board will always be made up of professionals and will have the clubs best interests at heart and we will never allow the club to get into such a mess financially ever again.

 

The only problem I have with the structure is potentially not having a DoF. I believe that the club need a DoF because the entire football operation is too big for a manager to run and we need someone on the board with contacts, experience and in depth knowledge of football to keep their finger on the pulse, to advise & direct the board of non footballing people. If we don’t have that then I might start to pay attention. 

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, Cynic said:

Maybe Finn Russell should have been in charge for the previous pumpings! I take he should replace Townsend and the players were showing they didnt agree with Townsend 's tactics up to half time in the England game?

The players are well paid to represent our club. If as you suggest they aren't trying a leg because they disagree with the managers tactics that is not acceptable to me, obviously it is to you. As i said in my first post the lack of fight and leadership on the park is down to the players. The team selected to play Hamilton should have won, bollocks to tactics.

 

Your comment about Levein's health is below the belt. Whatever else he is a Hearts man through and through regardless of any failings he has.

 

I don't think Scotland have had any real "pumpings" as you say when you look at the world rankings for the Nations we have lost to the teams that are ranked above us.

 

Russell was asked to play a certain way and he had the guts to tell his Coach that he didn't like it and they came out in the second and scored 31 points the same as England had scored in the first half.

 

Teams such as  Dundee, Livingston, St Mirren and Hamilton have all taken points off Hearts this season and the Hearts players have put in poor performances. Now is that because they are just not up to it and if that is the case then that is CL fault for bringing them in to the club. But these are the same players who have turned in some great performances against Celtic and Hibs so that to me would suggest they are capable.

 

So if that is the case then there are only a couple of options left that can be attributed to their gutless performances againgst teams below us in the league and that is either the Coaches tactic, Team Selection or as I suggested previously the players don't buy into what the Coach is asking them to do and none of them are prepared to say it so the alternative is to not give 100% in every game.

 

Yes they are well paid to do a job but if you ask them to do their job in a way they don't like or find difficult to do then there is a problem created by the Coach.

 

Now you seem to suggest that I find it acceptable for this to happen which is not really correct I was suggesting that this could be the reason why they have been so poor of late with the CL's negative tactics especially away from home that does not mean I accept it. That is just my thoughts on why they are so poor at the moment.

 

I didn't make a comment about his health directly it was about him always having an excuse such as blaming the ref, or we should have had a penalty or I haven't a clue why they played crap. In other words it is never his fault so it would be a valid way for him to step down without being sacked and save his face in that he was not being sacked.

 

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Everything and nothing will have changed...that’s pretty clear from the governance structure.

 

I can’t see any way that the support in general doesn’t become even less tolerant under a fan owned model.

 

When you say support in general are you making reference to the comments from fans on kickback or Hearts fans in general?

[Horatio Caine]

47 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

I don't think Scotland have had any real "pumpings" as you say when you look at the world rankings for the Nations we have lost to the teams that are ranked above us.

 

Russell was asked to play a certain way and he had the guts to tell his Coach that he didn't like it and they came out in the second and scored 31 points the same as England had scored in the first half.

 

Teams such as  Dundee, Livingston, St Mirren and Hamilton have all taken points off Hearts this season and the Hearts players have put in poor performances. Now is that because they are just not up to it and if that is the case then that is CL fault for bringing them in to the club. But these are the same players who have turned in some great performances against Celtic and Hibs so that to me would suggest they are capable.

 

So if that is the case then there are only a couple of options left that can be attributed to their gutless performances againgst teams below us in the league and that is either the Coaches tactic, Team Selection or as I suggested previously the players don't buy into what the Coach is asking them to do and none of them are prepared to say it so the alternative is to not give 100% in every game.

 

Yes they are well paid to do a job but if you ask them to do their job in a way they don't like or find difficult to do then there is a problem created by the Coach.

 

Now you seem to suggest that I find it acceptable for this to happen which is not really correct I was suggesting that this could be the reason why they have been so poor of late with the CL's negative tactics especially away from home that does not mean I accept it. That is just my thoughts on why they are so poor at the moment.

 

I didn't make a comment about his health directly it was about him always having an excuse such as blaming the ref, or we should have had a penalty or I haven't a clue why they played crap. In other words it is never his fault so it would be a valid way for him to step down without being sacked and save his face in that he was not being sacked.

 

As I recall, CL accepted responsibility for the Ibrox debacle.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Horatio Caine said:

As I recall, CL accepted responsibility for the Ibrox debacle.

Celtic not Rangers.

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/craig-im-to-blame

Edited March 18, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, bean counter said:

 

I've not read the whole thread but this stat clearly shows that something has gone wrong however I don't think changing the manager now will solve the problem or help the situation.

 

In 2012 our league form was poor we finished 5th won 15 lost 16 with 52 points but we won the Cup

 

This year so far won 14 lost 11with 47 points

 

At the start of the season I believe we were targeting good cup runs and a top four finish. Regardless of our luck with the draw we have made two Cup semi finals and are 4 points off 4th or 5points off third. We have still to play Kilmarnock twice and Aberdeen three times

 

If you had said to me at the start of the season get to two Cup semi's and finish fourth I would have taken it and said it was a good season

We only play Aberdeen twice and Killie once, unless we both get to the final. I don’t think we will better last seasons points total by much, we will certainly have more losses. It’s unlikejy we will get fourth on the poor run we are on. Even if we somehow manage to win the cup the style or lack thereof of football would still lead to calls for the managers head not long into next season .

[johnking123]

We have been rubbish for months. No tactics and still don't know how to go forward with the ball. It's all down to the coaching, recruitment and management. We will be 6th and don't even think we will reach the final. We are in trouble!

[Hashimoto]

If and when the day comes that CL leaves the club.....No more ex players for manager.....Lets try someone without a previous connection for a change.

[GORGIEFIED]

13 hours ago, sandylejambo said:

our midfield must be coached to not give and run in front of our forwards, we are ridgged and predictable, with no one willing to burst a gut to get into a scoring position, its pedestrian and boring as ****, ill wait regards the season ticket and hope something persuades me that walk up is not the way to go, I've had enough of getting angry at the team. 

That is my feelings exactly,it is painful watching what is on offer just now.

[Boab]

The strange thing is, the next three games are high profile games that need no motivation. Quickly followed by a Semi-Final. Games that really should take care of themselves in terms of atmosphere etc.

Probably a good thing  !

How we do in those games  ?

Two victories, a draw and a defeat and CL goes nowhere.

 

[WageThief]

9 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

 

Everything and nothing will have changed...that’s pretty clear from the governance structure.

 

I can’t see any way that the support in general doesn’t become even less tolerant under a fan owned model.

 

We will maybe appoint a "legend" to the Board such as Rudi or one of the Gary legends that don't wear spectacles.  We could then create conspiracies like "Rudi tells the players not to track back" or "Locke insisted we lose to Killie because he secretly loves them" or "all those years of writing for EEN have made Mackay a Hibs fan".  Hopefully a woman remains on the board too as we can then console ourselves that "Rudi/Gary are shagging" said woman and will "never be sacked".  Those who require further consolation may add "even if we get relegated"....

 

If we find ourselves languishing in 5th place, a few points off third and in the semi-final of the cup, we can also get really disrespectful towards whichever ex-player we've appointed to the board.  It might even be better if we can get someone like Hartley (openly a Celtic fan) to be the new Director of Vitriol.

[DH1986]

24 minutes ago, Hashimoto said:

If and when the day comes that CL leaves the club.....No more ex players for manager.....Lets try someone without a previous connection for a change.

 

For a change ?

 

Only 6 of our last 15 managers have been former Hearts players.

 

We should be looking for the the best....who he has played for is irrelevant.

[NB GIN]

I honestly can’t see us beating Inverness 

There is nothing in that team to make me think otherwise , we are absolutely garbage 

 

The manager is totally lost it’s as clear as day 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

2 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

I honestly can’t see us beating Inverness 

There is nothing in that team to make me think otherwise , we are absolutely garbage 

 

The manager is totally lost it’s as clear as day 

If Naismith was on the pitch even if he is still injured, he would do Levein's job for him is about our only hope

this semi smells of Airdrie in the early 90s 

[suds66]

24 minutes ago, NB GIN said:

I honestly can’t see us beating Inverness 

There is nothing in that team to make me think otherwise , we are absolutely garbage 

 

The manager is totally lost it’s as clear as day 

My thoughts exactly.

[Governor Tarkin]

13 hours ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Remember the days when a Levein team would get it with both barrels if they were not carrying out his instructions. Now he just shrugs his shoulders and says i dont know why the players are like that. No gumption in the man nowadays.

 

He had a heart attack earlier in the season. That's bound to have affected him in ways he probably doesn't fully understand himself yet.

[wavydavy]

9 hours ago, Horatio Caine said:

As I recall, CL accepted responsibility for the Ibrox debacle.

 

Wow that was big of him.

[NB GIN]

43 minutes ago, Old Castle Rock said:

If Naismith was on the pitch even if he is still injured, he would do Levein's job for him is about our only hope

this semi smells of Airdrie in the early 90s 

It does it really does 

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Old Castle Rock said:

If Naismith was on the pitch even if he is still injured, he would do Levein's job for him is about our only hope

this semi smells of Airdrie in the early 90s 

Former Jambos as manager and players then as well.

The similarities are frightening. 

[Gibson_HMFC]

There's a better chance of getting the right man for the job while we're still in 2 semi finals.

Just saying. 

[Inch Hearts]

2 hours ago, Boab said:

The strange thing is, the next three games are high profile games that need no motivation. Quickly followed by a Semi-Final. Games that really should take care of themselves in terms of atmosphere etc.

Probably a good thing  !

How we do in those games  ?

Two victories, a draw and a defeat and CL goes nowhere.

 

 

Aberdeen - L 

Huns - L 

Hubs - D

ICT - W

 

We'll be sitting 6th and the Scottish Cup Final to look forward to.  In that scenario he's going nowhere either so it's probably best to just get behind everyone and focus on the Scottish Cup. 

[jack D and coke]

On 17/03/2019 at 00:29, frankblack said:

 

You said that about Oshinawa's wages on another thread in the past week and that was proved to be bullshit.

 

Kindly provide a link to the season ticket sales covering the period before during and after Levein's first spell please?

You’re not so keen to provide evidence yourself when queried. You told me to go rake back 4 years and find out myself when I doubted you. 

 

[DH1986]

2 hours ago, Boab said:

The strange thing is, the next three games are high profile games that need no motivation. Quickly followed by a Semi-Final. Games that really should take care of themselves in terms of atmosphere etc.

Probably a good thing  !

How we do in those games  ?

Two victories, a draw and a defeat and CL goes nowhere.

 

 

Our results and performances against the bottom 6 sides since coming back from the winter shutdown has been nothing short of woeful. 

 

We now have a run of 8 games v Top 6 teams.......it doesn’t exactly give the support anything to cling to. Especially as once again the manager has publically admitted he’s at a loss to explain yet another awful performance.

 

 

When the guy in charge keeps telling you he doesn’t have the answers it’s time to change the guy in charge.

Edited March 18, 2019 by DH1986

[mitch41]

We all know that if Levein wasn’t an ex-player who was well liked he’d of been sacked by now.

On top of that him being the Director of Football makes him fireproof because Ann Budge has 

relied on him from day one and she’d find it impossible to sack him and his Bootroom even 

though the vast majority of fans know this job is too big for him.

I’d urge CL to swallow his pride, do the right thing, resign with immediate effect and maybe 

just as important take no part in the selection of a new management team.

[The Real Maroonblood]

14 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

We all know that if Levein wasn’t an ex-player who was well liked he’d of been sacked by now.

On top of that him being the Director of Football makes him fireproof because Ann Budge has 

relied on him from day one and she’d find it impossible to sack him and his Bootroom even 

though the vast majority of fans know this job is too big for him.

I’d urge CL to swallow his pride, do the right thing, resign with immediate effect and maybe 

just as important take no part in the selection of a new management team.

Good post. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

22 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

We all know that if Levein wasn’t an ex-player who was well liked he’d of been sacked by now.

On top of that him being the Director of Football makes him fireproof because Ann Budge has 

relied on him from day one and she’d find it impossible to sack him and his Bootroom even 

though the vast majority of fans know this job is too big for him.

I’d urge CL to swallow his pride, do the right thing, resign with immediate effect and maybe 

just as important take no part in the selection of a new management team.

 

So leave us manager-less as we approach the most important few weeks of the season? Genius idea.

[Placid Casual]

18 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Good post. 

 

It’s not a good post.

[Mykel_wcip]

45 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

We all know that if Levein wasn’t an ex-player who was well liked he’d of been sacked by now.

On top of that him being the Director of Football makes him fireproof because Ann Budge has 

relied on him from day one and she’d find it impossible to sack him and his Bootroom even 

though the vast majority of fans know this job is too big for him.

I’d urge CL to swallow his pride, do the right thing, resign with immediate effect and maybe 

just as important take no part in the selection of a new management team.

Agree 100%

[Inch Hearts]

26 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So leave us manager-less as we approach the most important few weeks of the season? Genius idea.

 

Yeah, there's no chance of it happening though.   Now most certainly isn't the time to change managers. 

[JackLadd]

The only way he will go is a season book boycott. As long as the money's coming in Ann won't Budge.

[1971fozzy]

1 hour ago, DH1986 said:

 

Our results and performances against the bottom 6 sides since coming back from the winter shutdown has been nothing short of woeful. 

 

We now have a run of 8 games v Top 6 teams.......it doesn’t exactly give the support anything to cling to. Especially as once again the manager has publically admitted he’s at a loss to explain yet another awful performance.

 

 

When the guy in charge keeps telling you he doesn’t have the answers it’s time to change the guy in charge.

 

Well said. In a bloody nutshell right there

[1971fozzy]

31 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So leave us manager-less as we approach the most important few weeks of the season? Genius idea.

 

We  have 2 weeks before the next game. Hibs didn’t take long

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, 1971fozzy said:

 

We  have 2 weeks before the next game. Hibs didn’t take long

 

It cost them 600k to fire Lennon. Well worth it though. 

[Boab]

1 hour ago, DH1986 said:

 

Our results and performances against the bottom 6 sides since coming back from the winter shutdown has been nothing short of woeful. 

 

We now have a run of 8 games v Top 6 teams.......it doesn’t exactly give the support anything to cling to. Especially as once again the manager has publically admitted he’s at a loss to explain yet another awful performance.

 

 

When the guy in charge keeps telling you he doesn’t have the answers it’s time to change the guy in charge.

 Yip.

There’s the conundrum though. Our form against the top six teams since Christmas is 3 wins and 1 defeat. That was the narrow loss to the demons.

Don’t think anyone can explain why we are not better against the bottom teams.

 

Well, we can but you get my drift !

[jambokev]

22 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

The only way he will go is a season book boycott. As long as the money's coming in Ann won't Budge.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

You’re not so keen to provide evidence yourself when queried. You told me to go rake back 4 years and find out myself when I doubted you. 

 

 

Oh dear.  A sad little nat with a grudge trying to carry out vendettas from the shed into the terrace.

 

How sad, and you clearly don't know the history of the poster I referred to.  The guy got found out.

[OmiyaHearts]

4 hours ago, Boab said:

The strange thing is, the next three games are high profile games that need no motivation. Quickly followed by a Semi-Final. Games that really should take care of themselves in terms of atmosphere etc.

Probably a good thing  !

How we do in those games  ?

Two victories, a draw and a defeat and CL goes nowhere.

 

Unfortunately, the results in the upcoming matches will make no difference. I think we'll get a point v Hibs and scrape through to the final.

 

Craig Levein will be here until the end of the season, no matter how bad things get on the pitch.