Levein’s time is up...

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

So are our league positions.   Though our league places provide evidence rather than indicators.  If our possession stats are that good, why are we shite? 

berra pass to halkett, Halkett back to berra, berra back to zlamal, zlamal back to berra attempts  the “very long” pass to  whoever is playing diagonally 45 Degrees from his left foot up top (even wee meshino) - moan at meshino for not holding it up with brute strength..repeat until you have more than 50% possession but no goals 😆

[Spoleto]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

berra pass to halkett, Halkett back to berra, berra back to zlamal, zlamal back to berra attempts  the “very long” pass to  whoever is playing diagonally 45 Degrees from his left foot up top (even wee meshino) - moan at meshino for not holding it up with brute strength..repeat until you have more than 50% possession but no goals 😆

 

Nothing to say about Leveins league record Kingy?

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

berra pass to halkett, Halkett back to berra, berra back to zlamal, zlamal back to berra attempts  the “very long” pass to  whoever is playing diagonally 45 Degrees from his left foot up top (even wee meshino) - moan at meshino for not holding it up with brute strength..repeat until you have more than 50% possession but no goals 😆

Exactly, eh voila you have great possession stats and it looks like you’re not a hoof ball team.

[jake]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

fancy doing that for me please. I can’t be bothered checking a years worth of possession stats. 

Passing across the back for a few minutes then lump.

Opposition will let you have 50% possession .

They have a wee rest then get the ball back.

 

 

Kingantti beat me to it

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by jake

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, jake said:

Passing across the back for a few minutes then lump.

Opposition will let you have 50% possession .

They have a wee rest then get the ball back.

 

 

Aye I couldn’t agree more.

 

was just asking Spoleto to collate the seasons stats to give him something else to do.

Edited October 14, 2019 by GinRummy

[jake]

10 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Nothing to say about Leveins league record Kingy?

😃😃🤣🤣🤪🤪🤪

[GinRummy]

12 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Nothing to say about Leveins league record Kingy?

 

You’re some boy likes. 

[Bazzas right boot]

20 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Your answer to our lack of movement was to point out that's the case with other teams.  It does look like whataboutery. 

 

 

Having watched hibs and Aberdeen, our movement imo is no worse or better than theirs. 

 

That point was my point. 

 

Hoofball, ditto. 

 

 

[Spoleto]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

 

You’re some boy likes. 

 

In what way?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

26 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Did I say he should’ve been sacked? He was at the stage where he needed to be his own man, his words not mine. 

Wright would be our Butcher, and we already have a manager as bad as that. 

Maybe read what people actually say before insulting them. As for being taken seriously you’ve only recently changed your mind about Levein and sneakily would want him to stay.

 

You said his time was up, it was time for him to go. That was your assessment of our manager. While well in the hunt for a second euro

qualification in a row - something very few Hearts managers achieve. But it was time for him to go 🤣

 

As I say anything else you say about managers has to be read with that in mind!

 

I thought at the time we didn’t do enough to keep Neilson. Levein looked far too relaxed about it at the time because he saw it as his chance to finally get Cathro in. Neilson should have been offered a new contract and player budget in january. Maybe he was who knows but I suspect Levein was torn between keeping him and bringing his prodigy in.

Edited October 14, 2019 by ToqueJambo

[kingantti1874]

23 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Nothing to say about Leveins league record Kingy?

as Ive said many time over the last year, in the same number of fixtures as Ian cathro.  who is statistically the worst manager in our history (if you only count those who had more than a handful of games). Leveins has somehow contrived to attain a worse record It’s utterly embarrassing, and he should be ashamed of it.. when you play his way. You simply have to win.. 
 

PS I don’t know if you were actively or passively stalking the board for The decade before you graced us with your now unabating and repetitive opinion. but if it was the former you’ll have noticed very few defended Craig Levein more than me, he was such a legend in my eyes he deserved longer than most, to put it into context when my dad and I couldn’t make his testimonial which had about 2000 at it we sent him a cheque for £50.. which he did cash btw.  Now he is tarnishing his legend status..

 

Out what are you going to post about once he is put out his misery? 😆 youve has **** all to say for 10 years now your a one man levein apologist.. you taking time off work for this? 

Edited October 14, 2019 by kingantti1874

[Randy Marsh]

3 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Except the poster wasn't stating a fact. His post said:

"A huge chunk of Levein's wins (2nd spell) have been against lower league pish in cups.  The win % drops to around 20% for league matches.  Absolutely woeful stuff and close to being the worst manager in our history. "

 

My reaction, was 'that is woeful, I wonder if it's true'. A quick check shows that it isn't around 20% for league matches at all its actually 33.75%. 80 league matches, won 27. (19/20 P8, W1; P38, W15; 17-18 P34, W11).

 

It's a rubbish record and I want Levein sacked, but the reaction to the few posters that disagree is totally over the top. The original poster's stat wasn't right, yet you went off on one for a poster who rightly questioned that stat.

I should have mentioned his win rate of close to 20% was for the last 12 months (38 league matches).  A quick check shows it is 26.3 %.  Looking at our next few fixtures that is only going to get worse.  Once we are into November it is highly likely that will drop well below 20%.   

 

Your post is spot on Saint Jambo.  To be fair I thought Levein's overall win % would have been worse than 33.75%.  However, that is highly likely to drop well into the 20's next month.  33.75% is still absolutely disgraceful in this league.  Our top flight IMO is at it's worst standard for years.  Previous managers such as JJ (1st spell) didn't have the luxury of playing a Hamilton, St. Mirren or Ross County every month to help boost the win rate.  It was much harder to get cheap points when it was a 10 team league.  Given this and the generous resources Levein has had it really does show what a dreadful job he is doing.

[jake]

46 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

No offence but your assessment of robbie as our manager is why I don’t take your views on levein or any other manager seriously.

 

He was doing great and he was still very young and inexperienced - ie he obviously would make mistakes but had plenty time to change and get better in some areas.

 

At that time in our history finishing as high up the league as possible was what we needed and was what he was delivering.

 

Instead an alarmingly large number wanted Tommy Wright instead 🤣

 

Anyone who thought that he needed sacking can’t complain when their views on other managers get ignored.

When we got promoted the one thing I hoped for was steadying the ship versus Celtic.

Our record v them was pretty shameful.

Neilson delivered that.

 

And he also consolidated our place in the SPL.

I doubt he was chased out the club as some claim but I dont know that .

I would imagine Neilson is made of stronger stuff.

 

I do agree people got nipped at his failure v hibs who it has to be said had a team capable of breaking down a disciplined Hearts team.

 

I liked his professional attitude.

 

Did he have a different training regime ?

 

Anyway the criticism I'd have would be lack of pace and creativity.

And it was a bit turgid.

I was a happy Clapper on here I think regarding him.

I also thought a lot of players came in for undeserved criticism.

I wont name them as people may dismiss my other views because of that

😁

 

I think many Hearts supporters want an expansive style to watch.

Neilson didnt show much leaning towards that but his record imo meant we should have persuaded him to stay .

13 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

as Ive said many time over the last year, in the same number of fixtures as Ian cathro.  who is statistically the worst manager in our history (if you only count those who had more than a handful of games). Leveins has somehow contrived to attain a worse record It’s utterly embarrassing, and he should be ashamed of it.. when you play his way. You simply have to win.. 
 

PS I don’t know if you were actively or passively stalking the board for The decade before you graced us with your now unabating and repetitive opinion. but if it was the former you’ll have noticed very few defended Craig Levein more than me, he was such a legend in my eyes he deserved longer than most, to put it into context when my dad and I couldn’t make his testimonial which had about 2000 at it we sent him a cheque for £50.. which he did cash btw.  Now he is tarnishing his legend status..

 

Out what are you going to post about once he is put out his misery? 😆 youve has **** all to say for 10 years now your a one man levein apologist.. you taking time off work for this? 

Dont mate.

There could be a decent discussion about this without him fishing for bites 24/7.

 

And that's coming from me mate so you know hes a fekin rocket.

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by jake

[Spoleto]

12 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

as Ive said many time over the last year, in the same number of fixtures as Ian cathro.  who is statistically the worst manager in our history (if you only count those who had more than a handful of games). Leveins has somehow contrived to attain a worse record It’s utterly embarrassing, and he should be ashamed of it.. when you play his way. You simply have to win.. 
 

PS I don’t know if you were actively or passively stalking the board for The decade before you graced us with your now unabating and repetitive opinion. but if it was the former you’ll have noticed very few defended Craig Levein more than me, he was such a legend in my eyes he deserved longer than most, to put it into context when my dad and I couldn’t make his testimonial which had about 2000 at it we sent him a cheque for £50.. which he did cash btw.  Now he is tarnishing his legend status..

 

Out what are you going to post about once he is put out his misery? 😆 youve has **** all to say for 10 years now your a one man levein apologist.. you taking time off work for this? 

 

Nice deflection Kingy. 

 

No I meant this comment that you made about Leveins league record 

 

 

kingantti1874 replied to Heartsofgold's topic in The Terrace

he’s not making a claim he’s stating a fact. The % records of our managers was done to death during the cathro era and the in the weeks before your “arrival” when opinion was more evenly split, leveins overall record is high 30% however over the past year it’s low 20’s which is utterly chronic, the worst run in our history. The poster is right so if you want to...

[thewiseone]

1 hour ago, Spoleto said:

 

Thanks for confirming what I said. Stats aren't everything, but they ARE an indicator.

Of what?

[jake]

28 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

 

Aye I couldn’t agree more.

 

was just asking Spoleto to collate the seasons stats to give him something else to do.

😁

[kingantti1874]

6 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Nice deflection Kingy. 

 

No I meant this comment that you made about Leveins league record 

 

 

kingantti1874 replied to Heartsofgold's topic in The Terrace

he’s not making a claim he’s stating a fact. The % records of our managers was done to death during the cathro era and the in the weeks before your “arrival” when opinion was more evenly split, leveins overall record is high 30% however over the past year it’s low 20’s which is utterly chronic, the worst run in our history. The poster is right so if you want to...

Thing about statistics is they change all the time.. never the less Ian Cathro is who is statistically our worst manager ever (another great levein decision) has a better league record than levein.
 

Ian Cathro 22 league games In total 5 wins (22%)

Craig Levein last 22 league games 3 wins (13.6%) 

 

my god even I didn’t think it was that bad..

Edited October 14, 2019 by kingantti1874

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Of what?

 

 Jupiter aligning with Saturn. 

 

What do you think football stats are an indicator off? 

 

Take a punt and guess. 

[Spoleto]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

thing about statistics is they change all the time.. never the less Ian Cathro who is statistically our worst manager ever (another great levein decision) 
 

Ian Cathro 22 league games In total 5 wins (22%)

Craig Levein last 22 league games 3 wins (13.6%) 

 

my god even I didn’t think it was that bad, 

 

The thing is what he quoted as a fact and that you backed up as a fact was in fact way off the mark.

 

 

[gowestjambo]

1 hour ago, Spoleto said:

 

Thanks for confirming what I said. Stats aren't everything, but they ARE an indicator.

 

Don't flatter yourself - you know I was NOT confirming what you said in the slightest. So exactly what do the possession stats indicate for a team that has not won a game at home for months??

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

The thing is what he quoted as a fact and that you backed up as a fact was in fact way off the mark.

 

 

thing is no one but you cares about your technicalities 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️ What a ****ing record 13% . Not sure what’s more embarrassing the record itself or making a fool of yourself trying to defend it. 

[Randy Marsh]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

thing is no one but you cares about your technicalities 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️ What a ****ing record 13% . Not sure what’s more embarrassing the record itself or making a fool of yourself trying to defend it. 

Just ignore him mate.  For the record Levein has a win rate of 26.3% for the last 38 league matches and 33.75% overall in his 2nd spell as manager.  Still honking stats no matter how some try to defend it.  It will be interesting to revisit these stats again come the end of November as our fixtures do not look favourable.  The overall win rate will likely be in the low 20% by that point.

[martoon]

20 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 Jupiter aligning with Saturn. 

 

What do you think football stats are an indicator off? 

 

Take a punt and guess. 

 

Still bickering with punters you now agree with, Tosh. 

 

Wtf, man? 

[thewiseone]

21 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 Jupiter aligning with Saturn. 

 

What do you think football stats are an indicator off? 

 

Take a punt and guess. 

Nope you've got me, what do they indicate to you?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

21 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Utter rubbish.

That's what you want to believe.

We were top of the league before the injuries impacted - and you know that.

 

I fully expected a drop in form on that basis.

 

But if you think injuries excuse the entire patch of form since then, you really are just apologising for Levein.

[Spoleto]

8 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

thing is no one but you cares about your technicalities 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️ What a ****ing record 13% . Not sure what’s more embarrassing the record itself or making a fool of yourself trying to defend it. 

 

Just go the whole hog and give the win stat for the last 1 league game, that would suit your agenda much better.

 

[Randy Marsh]

Just now, Spoleto said:

 

Just go the whole hog and give the win stat for the last 1 league game, that would suit your agenda much better.

 

It's 0% mate.

[Spoleto]

5 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

Just ignore him mate.  For the record Levein has a win rate of 26.3% for the last 38 league matches and 33.75% overall in his 2nd spell as manager.  Still honking stats no matter how some try to defend it.  It will be interesting to revisit these stats again come the end of November as our fixtures do not look favourable.  The overall win rate will likely be in the low 20% by that point.

 

How about you review the stats at the end of the season which is what most sensible people would do?

[Spoleto]

Just now, Randy Marsh said:

It's 0% mate.

 

Exactly. It's a meaningless stat.

[Pasquale for King]

48 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

You said his time was up, it was time for him to go. That was your assessment of our manager. While well in the hunt for a second euro

qualification in a row - something very few Hearts managers achieve. But it was time for him to go 🤣

 

As I say anything else you say about managers has to be read with that in mind!

 

I thought at the time we didn’t do enough to keep Neilson. Levein looked far too relaxed about it at the time because he saw it as his chance to finally get Cathro in. Neilson should have been offered a new contract and player budget in january. Maybe he was who knows but I suspect Levein was torn between keeping him and bringing his prodigy in.

Once again even after explaining you don’t get it, for him as a manager it was time to leave and stand on his own two feet, his words and he was right. You know better than Neilson himself 🤣.

I believed it at the time and I still do, who knows if he had taken us as far he could, not you anyway. How do you know Levein didn’t try everything to get him to stay, he said he didn’t agree with Neilsons assertion that it was time to go. 

 

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

Just go the whole hog and give the win stat for the last 1 league game, that would suit your agenda much better.

 

It’s a comparison to a manger levein hired and correctly fired for putting us through “at that time” the worst run we’d ever had. it’s absolutely a fair and reasonable basis for comparison.  

 

A run that if levein the failed manager wasn’t accountable to levein the DOF and levein the director would certainly have resulted in the sack.
 

 If you think about it it’s a whole new level of failure to bear your worst ever record within 3 years all at a time when things have never been better of the park

Edited October 14, 2019 by kingantti1874

[Pasquale for King]

51 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

I should have mentioned his win rate of close to 20% was for the last 12 months (38 league matches).  A quick check shows it is 26.3 %.  Looking at our next few fixtures that is only going to get worse.  Once we are into November it is highly likely that will drop well below 20%.   

 

Your post is spot on Saint Jambo.  To be fair I thought Levein's overall win % would have been worse than 33.75%.  However, that is highly likely to drop well into the 20's next month.  33.75% is still absolutely disgraceful in this league.  Our top flight IMO is at it's worst standard for years.  Previous managers such as JJ (1st spell) didn't have the luxury of playing a Hamilton, St. Mirren or Ross County every month to help boost the win rate.  It was much harder to get cheap points when it was a 10 team league.  Given this and the generous resources Levein has had it really does show what a dreadful job he is doing.

Well put.

[Randy Marsh]

Just now, Spoleto said:

 

How about you review the stats at the end of the season which is what most sensible people would do?

Levein doesn't deserve the full season.  We are on relegation form and he needs to removed now.  

[TheOak88]

1 hour ago, Spoleto said:

 

Broken foot making a tackle. Nothing to do with being injury prone.

Totally irrelevant to my point. But thanks for contributing. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

Levein doesn't deserve the full season.  We are on relegation form and he needs to removed now.  

Exactly, not sure what being proved right statistically would do if we are back down below. 

[kingantti1874]

5 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

How about you review the stats at the end of the season which is what most sensible people would do?

I don’t think most “sensible” football clubs or fans only measure form from August to May. Most managerial changes are made mid season in an effort to improve the product for their loyal customers

[pettigrewsstylist]

13 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

How about you review the stats at the end of the season which is what most sensible people would do?

Sensible people change the helmsman who cant navigate before he runs them aground, not once they are on the reef and holed.

[Bazzas right boot]

21 minutes ago, thewiseone said:

Nope you've got me, what do they indicate to you?

 

 

The wise one? 

[Rudy T]

Imagine arguing the case for a football manager who’s barely won a game of football in 12 months to stay in charge. In just what planet does that make any sense🤣 I can see why fans of other teams would be delighted for him to stay but Hearts fans.. nah!

[Governor Tarkin]

37 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

So exactly what do the possession stats indicate for a team that has not won a game at home for months??

 

That teams are happy for us to have lots of the ball because they know we're not capable of doing anything with it.

[FruitJuice]

1 hour ago, Spoleto said:

 

Nothing to say about Leveins league record Kingy?

Have you? 

[Thomaso]

20 minutes ago, Spoleto said:

 

How about you review the stats at the end of the season which is what most sensible people would do?

so yet another season goes down the drain!!!

[FruitJuice]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Having watched hibs and Aberdeen, our movement imo is no worse or better than theirs. 

 

That point was my point. 

 

Hoofball, ditto. 

 

 

So that explains our reason for playing that way? Other teams do it as well so it's alright!  Levein is the most cautious manager in Scottish football and is know world over for his approach.  He will never change how he approaches games and fans are bored with it.  

[thewiseone]

5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

The wise one? 

Yep as it says! 

Just can't get the point you are trying to make or is it really that stats provided are really irrelevant?

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, FruitJuice said:

So that explains our reason for playing that way? Other teams do it as well so it's alright!  Levein is the most cautious manager in Scottish football and is know world over for his approach.  He will never change how he approaches games and fans are bored with it.  

 

More a reflection on the Scottish game and it's standard. 

You seem intent on missing that point tho, so best to move on. 

It's also irrelevant anyway, the results and poor form are the important part. 

[Governor Tarkin]

Tosh is like a Jack Russell with two cocks when he's mob handed.  

 

It's amazing the number of posters who were once staunch pro-Levein that are popping up on this thread to say they've had enough.

He's totally lost the fans.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Governor Tarkin

[Bazzas right boot]

6

1 minute ago, thewiseone said:

Yep as it says! 

Just can't get the point you are trying to make or is it really that stats provided are really irrelevant?

 

 

It's quite obvious what football stats are an indicator of- imo. 

 

It will come to you. 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

12 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Have you? 

It’s ok mate, we’ve established that I and others were in fact correct. Craig levein fired a young coach who had a record significantly better than his own. 

 

In Spoleto’s eyes  neither Craig levein or Ann budge can be considered “sensible” as they did not wait until the end of the season before considering form 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️.

 

Poor Cathro he achieved his mighty 22% having taken the job mid season, with only had one transfer window.
 

Levein has had 5 windows, a record level of backing and currently has us in the midst of worst run of form in the last 125 years. 13% 

Edited October 14, 2019 by kingantti1874

[jake]

50 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Don't flatter yourself - you know I was NOT confirming what you said in the slightest. So exactly what do the possession stats indicate for a team that has not won a game at home for months??

That possession means sweet fa if you dont do something with it.

 

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, FruitJuice said:

It was white and Naismith that I was thinking about so maybe not as much as I thought.  Doesn't mean that we can't change our style to be less cautious.  

In other words you thought you might have a go at the club without thinking

How much money would we have saved on White and Naismith that would get us better players?

And could you guarantee these other players wouldn't get injured as well.