Levein’s time is up...

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Because we have fans on here saying Levein has to go because last season we finished 6th and this season we’re sitting 5th. Some are saying his “time is up” and “any other Hearts manager would have been sacked for Levein’s performance. Yet in 83/84 we finished 5th and then in 84/85 we finished 7th under Alex MacDonald  and he wasn’t sacked. The board rightly stuck by him. Even when we started 85/86 terribly the board stuck by him and we all know what happened next... 

 

To me this unrealistic sense of self-entitlement started when Vlad arrived.  A lot of idiots still think we can spend recklessly to build a team we can't afford in order to challenge Celtic and Sevco.  If we do that we will go bust in less than 5 years.

 

With our budget on a good season we would finish 3rd but that depends on how good teams with similar budgets like Aberdeen and Hibs do.  To finish above 3rd we would need Celtic AND Sevco to drop a considerable number of points.

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

To me this unrealistic sense of self-entitlement started when Vlad arrived.  A lot of idiots still think we can spend recklessly to build a team we can't afford in order to challenge Celtic and Sevco.  If we do that we will go bust in less than 5 years.

 

With our budget on a good season we would finish 3rd but that depends on how good teams with similar budgets like Aberdeen and Hibs do.  To finish above 3rd we would need Celtic AND Sevco to drop a considerable number of points.

 

Spot on. There is definitely a sense of entitlement there which wasn’t 15 years ago.

??

Edited March 2, 2019 by To Be Frank

[Bull's-eye]

3 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Spot on. There is definitely a sense of entitlement there which wasn’t 15 years ago.

??

 

It's an old firm style mentality, if we're not winning, we're moaning and generally a walking away mentality. Hibs have the same issue.

 

Fortunately, the massive majority of Hearts supporters see through that Shite and will stick by the club. 

[frankblack]

22 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

It's an old firm style mentality, if we're not winning, we're moaning and generally a walking away mentality. Hibs have the same issue.

 

Fortunately, the massive majority of Hearts supporters see through that Shite and will stick by the club. 

 

Correct.  Maybe if we had 45k season ticket holders we could spend what the ugly sisters are doing to win most weeks.  Otherwise we are always going to have spikes of good years amongst lesser ones.

[luckydug]

How many spins of the dice do we get at this new manager game ?

Until we win the league or until we go bust trying ?

We have stability and the successor to Craig Levein will be chosen carefully. 

 

[frankblack]

37 minutes ago, luckydug said:

How many spins of the dice do we get at this new manager game ?

Until we win the league or until we go bust trying ?

We have stability and the successor to Craig Levein will be chosen carefully. 

 

 

Precisely, and then when you do get a gem of a manager, what happens when a bigger club inevitably lures them away?

[gowestjambo]

1 hour ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Spot on. There is definitely a sense of entitlement there which wasn’t 15 years ago.

??

 

A sense of entitlement? You seem to revel in our lack of ambition. You appear to be happiest when we are unlucky losers.

 

I suppose the Leicester City version of you when they won the League must have topped himself.

[gowestjambo]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Precisely, and then when you do get a gem of a manager, what happens when a bigger club inevitably lures them away?

 

Do you ever see the positive side Frank? Lets not get a good manager in case some other team wants him! Better to have mediocrity to keep the same Manager.......

[sandylejambo]

1 hour ago, stevieboobs said:

 

Genuine question. Can anyone give any examples where a manager had moved upstairs/resigned/been sacked and one of the coaches has taken over and been a success?  This scenario fills me with dread to be honest 

Bob  Paisley, Liverpool

[frankblack]

34 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 

Do you ever see the positive side Frank? Lets not get a good manager in case some other team wants him! Better to have mediocrity to keep the same Manager.......

 

That isn't the point I made.  Keep  replacing managers until you get lucky and you will find someone else lures them away for more money and the cycle repeats.

[siegementality]

7 hours ago, Captain Bubblebeard said:

I see us attracting players of the quality of Naismith and Berra. I see us retaining quality prospects like Souttar on extended contracts.

I did not see us doing that five years ago.

I’m no happy clapper. I am, however, able to objectively review our progress over the last five years and not completely lose my shit because we’ve had a few poor performances recently.

I agree that CLs position should be reviewed at the end of the season and that fifth would be an underachievement. I’m intrigued (and I am not being facetious here) as to who the non-happy-clappers foresee us replacing him with. I’m entirely open to a change that would improve us. I don’t see many stand out candidates though. Steve Clarke?

Steve Clarke if you are insular. Hopefully the hierarchy at the club will be able to think outside the Scottish football box.

[siegementality]

6 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Thought we were judging him as manager not DoF. Thats a whole other discussion.

No it’s not. Unlike a “normal” manager - working under a DOF - CL hasn’t had his hands tied. Effectively he has had a say on every aspect, at every level (bearing mind he is also a director) of the footballing side of  the business, and has - in my opinion - failed. Where are the players being sold for big transfer fees? Where are the academy players coming through? Where is the consistent style of play (although it was meant to be better than the shite we have to watch) at every level?

 

CL has proven to be a charlatan. If some Hearts supporters want to accept this level of mediocrity then that is up to them. Personally I won’t.

[siegementality]

4 hours ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Levein deserves as many seasons as it takes to win us trophys. 

Oh FFS!!!!

[Enzo Chiefo]

8 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

How disillusioned were they at this point of season 84/85?

Not particularly as I recall. We played in Europe that season and had not long returned from the First Division. MacDonald was given time to build and he achieved great things without lifting a trophy. Eventually,  when things started to stagnate and there were no signs of further progress, he was sacked. We are at that point now with Levein and yes, his several years as DOF do count. 

 

Did you agree with Levein,  that Cathro should have been given more time?

[soonbe110]

8 hours ago, stevieboobs said:

 

Genuine question. Can anyone give any examples where a manager had moved upstairs/resigned/been sacked and one of the coaches has taken over and been a success?  This scenario fills me with dread to be honest 

Shankly and Paisley spring readily to mind. Not a success though???

[Coco]

6 hours ago, sandylejambo said:

Bob  Paisley, Liverpool

 

Walter Smith at Rangers would be another.

 

These are hardly situations comparable to the one at Hearts though.  Both Souness and Shankly had success first before their juniors took over!

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 hours ago, siegementality said:

No it’s not. Unlike a “normal” manager - working under a DOF - CL hasn’t had his hands tied. Effectively he has had a say on every aspect, at every level (bearing mind he is also a director) of the footballing side of  the business, and has - in my opinion - failed. Where are the players being sold for big transfer fees? Where are the academy players coming through? Where is the consistent style of play (although it was meant to be better than the shite we have to watch) at every level?

 

CL has proven to be a charlatan. If some Hearts supporters want to accept this level of mediocrity then that is up to them. Personally I won’t.

That's exactly where the problem lies. We keep hearing about the academy and the stability , the 5 year plan, etc but the football department is disjointed. We used to hear about the same style of play being adopted through every age group with players and coaches, fitting seamlessly into the system when someone else leaves. There is no consistency in team selections  and there is a dearth of youngsters coming through to first team level. Apparently, all it needs is patience and we should be thankful that we have a manager like Levein. Deluded doesn't cover it. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Shankly and Paisley spring readily to mind. Not a success though???

Liverpool lifted the European Cup several times in that period. That is the only example of a successful boot room philosophy that I can think of. It was nearly 40 years ago though and is a dated concept.

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Liverpool lifted the European Cup several times in that period. That is the only example of a successful boot room philosophy that I can think of. It was nearly 40 years ago though and is a dated concept.

Poster said he wasn’t aware of any successful boot rooms. Just informing him. It’s people that make baseless statements such as there’s never been a successful boot room promotion that just create debate based on false facts. 

Re dated, is Guardiola at Barca a bit more real time? Player, youth coach, reserve coach, manager. 

[sac]

Check the stats. We’re not winning leagues or cups regularly. Three Scottish Cup’s since the league cup success in 63 speaks for itself. This is not a CL thing it’s historical. Ambition has to be tempered by our resources. We don’t have the pulling power or financial clout of the OF, but we should be achieving at least 3rd on a more regular basis.

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, sac said:

Check the stats. We’re not winning leagues or cups regularly. Three Scottish Cup’s since the league cup success in 63 speaks for itself. This is not a CL thing it’s historical. Ambition has to be tempered by our resources. We don’t have the pulling power or financial clout of the OF, but we should be achieving at least 3rd on a more regular basis.

Exactly. Some on here expect us to win trophies regularly, win in Glasgow  regularly etc. Something we have never, with the odd season being the exception some 50-60 years ago, ever been able to do. Given the financial clout difference between us and the top two clubs has probably never been bigger it’s unrealistic. Currently Celtic are paying players 8 times what we pay ours. Rangers 4 times. It’s like expecting Derby County to win to trophies regularly and win regularly in London and Manchester. Very similar, happened once or twice, long time ago, when differentials between the clubs were much narrower. Sadly it is what it is and money available drives quality of player you can afford. You just need to look at current squads. I’d suggest only Souter and maybe Naismith would get a game for Celtic on a regular basis. 

[bringonthesevco]

8 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

To me this unrealistic sense of self-entitlement started when Vlad arrived.  A lot of idiots still think we can spend recklessly to build a team we can't afford in order to challenge Celtic and Sevco.  If we do that we will go bust in less than 5 years.

 

With our budget on a good season we would finish 3rd but that depends on how good teams with similar budgets like Aberdeen and Hibs do.  To finish above 3rd we would need Celtic AND Sevco to drop a considerable number of points.

 

I don’t believe it’s an unrealistic sense of entitlement to expect a club with the 4th highest budget to be 4th (or above).

 

Instead we’ve seen us 

win only 7 home league games out of 15 at “fortress tynecastle” scoring only 17 goals and have conceded points to some truly god awful teams .

 

i don’t think it’s an unrealistic sense of entitlement to expect us to be able to sign more than 1 decent midfielder out of the c20 we’ve signed in the last 3 seasons .

 

i don’t think it’s an unrealistic sense of entitlement to expect a club that pays the 4th highest wages to actually have a style of football that it plays week in / week out that doesn’t make our eyes bleed ....

 

which of these do do you believe is unrealistic ???

[Prof]

6 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Exactly. Some on here expect us to win trophies regularly, win in Glasgow  regularly etc. Something we have never, with the odd season being the exception some 50-60 years ago, ever been able to do. Given the financial clout difference between us and the top two clubs has probably never been bigger it’s unrealistic. Currently Celtic are paying players 8 times what we pay ours. Rangers 4 times. It’s like expecting Derby County to win to trophies regularly and win regularly in London and Manchester. Very similar, happened once or twice, long time ago, when differentials between the clubs were much narrower. Sadly it is what it is and money available drives quality of player you can afford. You just need to look at current squads. I’d suggest only Souter and maybe Naismith would get a game for Celtic on a regular basis. 

Using your criteria Patrick Thistle are doing just as well as us.

[doctor jambo]

8 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Because we have fans on here saying Levein has to go because last season we finished 6th and this season we’re sitting 5th. Some are saying his “time is up” and “any other Hearts manager would have been sacked for Levein’s performance.” Alex MacDonald’s time as Hearts boss pisses all over their argument. In 83/84 we finished 5th and then in 84/85 we finished 7th under Alex MacDonald  and he wasn’t sacked. The board rightly stuck by him. Even when we started 85/86 terribly the board stuck by him and we all know what happened next... 

We went on to lose everything 

[The Real Maroonblood]

10 hours ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Levein deserves as many seasons as it takes to win us trophys. 

[Alex Kintner]

 

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Not particularly as I recall. We played in Europe that season and had not long returned from the First Division. MacDonald was given time to build and he achieved great things without lifting a trophy. Eventually,  when things started to stagnate and there were no signs of further progress, he was sacked. We are at that point now with Levein and yes, his several years as DOF do count. 

 

Did you agree with Levein,  that Cathro should have been given more time?

 

So despite finishing 5th and then 7th (regression) he was given time to build and we were rewarded with two 2nd place finishes and a gnat’s bawhair away from winning the league.

 

Seems to create a very strong argument for sticking with a manager who has improved us from his first season (progression)?

 

Why did MacDonald deserve the chance to stay during his second season when things were going backwards yet Levein doesn’t when things are moving forwards? 

[frankblack]

38 minutes ago, bringonthesevco said:

 

I don’t believe it’s an unrealistic sense of entitlement to expect a club with the 4th highest budget to be 4th (or above).

 

Instead we’ve seen us 

win only 7 home league games out of 15 at “fortress tynecastle” scoring only 17 goals and have conceded points to some truly god awful teams .

 

i don’t think it’s an unrealistic sense of entitlement to expect us to be able to sign more than 1 decent midfielder out of the c20 we’ve signed in the last 3 seasons .

 

i don’t think it’s an unrealistic sense of entitlement to expect a club that pays the 4th highest wages to actually have a style of football that it plays week in / week out that doesn’t make our eyes bleed ....

 

which of these do do you believe is unrealistic ???

 

We are actually round about fourth in points and on course to reach a second semi-final this seaaon despite having a horrendous injury list for more than half the season.

 

Now we have a combination of new players arriving, injured players returning from injury and now more injuries and we are trying to get the team to gel again.

 

Our away form was the stick people were using to beat Levein and Neilson.  That has improved significantly so now apparently a few draws is the next unacceptable thing to throw at him.

 

As for signings we did not sign 20 midfielders so stop talking pish.  We lost a lot of first team and youth players last year hence Cochrane, McDonald and others got thrown in too early.  Our signings have improved both first team and youth.  Its clear we lack decent wide players and keeper position is suspect but nothing can be done now until June.

 

I think we could finish the season strongly and perhaps get a European place.  Under the circumstances that is acceptable.

[luckydug]

For all we know plans may already be in place for the day CL  hands over the reigns.

From my point of view I think it will be a smooth handover with Austin taking over as HC. The other coaches probably moving up the ladder in turn.

Craig Levein might take a back seat in which case an experienced DOF could be appointed. 

I don't think we intend to turn into one of those manic hiring and firing clubs as some of our fans would like after every bad run.

[Enzo Chiefo]

21 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

 

So despite finishing 5th and then 7th (regression) he was given time to build and we were rewarded with two 2nd place finishes and a gnat’s bawhair away from winning the league.

 

Seems to create a very strong argument for sticking with a manager who has improved us from his first season (progression)?

 

Why did MacDonald deserve the chance to stay during his second season when things were going backwards yet Levein doesn’t when things are moving forwards? 

Why was Cathro not given more time to implement the Iberian style of football that he wanted to implement? 

[Alex Kintner]

14 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I loved doddie. Doesn’t change the fact that he wouldn’t have lasted one season these days to be able to build that team. 

 

In those days hearts wages were not much less than the OF, which is why we could sign someone like Colquhoun who was a regular with celtic, not to mention other Rangers and Celtic first teamers.

 

And we would currently be in a European spot if the same rules applied then as now.

 

Mind you Neilson won the chhampionship first time of asking and got us Europe after promotion and he was slaughtered by many of the same people slaughtering levein now.

 

Fact is, as we’re comparing eras, fans today have the attention span and patience of a toddler on a sugar high compared to the old days.

 

Measured against the same criteria being used against Levein, Doddy would have been sacked mid-season 84/85.

 

13 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I agree with some of what you say Toque. It wasn't "rules" though that allowed us to qualify for Europe from 5th place, back in 84. The success of Dundee Utd and Aberdeen - officially the best team in Europe back then- helped us along the way. The standard of the game and players was far higher back then. The difference with CL though, is that he has been DOF for 5 years, overseeing the entire footballing dept which has seen nearly 100 players come and go. Arguably he has had more than enough time.

 

So if we’re holding Levein to account for time as DOF too then the first half two and a half years went perfectly (romped the championship, finished 3rd and qualifiied for Europe, sitting 2nd when Robbie left)

 

12 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Obvously agree about 86. But it took a few years to get there. Would you agree fans these days wouldn’t stand for one 3rd and one second in the old first division followed by a 5th and 7th?

 

No way certain fans would. Thankfully most of us are made of sterner stuff and can see the bigger picture in the same way the board did in the 80s ??

 

12 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Probably but I suppose it may depend on the generation. Other factors come into it too though like standard of play, recent success that can placate the support through a dip..etc...

 

As an example, from 86 until 92 we finished:-  2, 5, 2, 6, 3, 5 , 2

 

Its interesting that in the dip seasons we played in Europe. I remember it being a point of debate back then.

 

But all was forgiven. It was still a good team to watch, we were getting in Europe regularly and pretty much always getting to semi finals in the domestic cups, more so the Big Cup.

 

Prior to that run from 86 onwards we finished 5th then 7th so you’re right that patience is required in order to progress. ??

 

11 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

It may be a managerial "structure" but it's a flawed one. Holding the club hostage to one, rigid set of ideas while grooming others in the same methodology is fundamentally flawed.

 

 

A man who bleeds maroon is holding the club to hostage.

 

10 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No, because you seem to genuinely believe, albeit in your own mind, that people who have different opinions to yours , post Shit (sic) whereas you are entitled to post your opinions,  "no more, no less". 

 

 

 

It’s because you go from stating readonable opinions and debate one minute to then posting nonsense like above (holding the club hostage) and below (referring to our owner and saviour as wer Annie)

 

10 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Are you employed by wee Annie?

 

?

 

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

We went on to lose everything 

 

?

[pettigrewsstylist]

10 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Spot on. There is definitely a sense of entitlement there which wasn’t 15 years ago.

??

Been thinking ths a lot lately. I spent most of my formative yrs and old 1st division dumps paying to watch men in maroon who were no better footballers than me ???. We have zero etitlement to 3rd. It should be our realisitic aim but not possible EVERY year.

[Alex Kintner]

14 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Why was Cathro not given more time to implement the Iberian style of football that he wanted to implement? 

 

The Cathro argument is irrelevant. He had no previous success as a manager to suggest he could turn it around (both Doddy and Levein did) and the alide backwards was extremely dramatic from the 2nd place Neilson left us in. The off the field stuff would have played a huge part too with his media interviews and training ground bust-ups. He had almost 100% of the fans wanting him gone too.

 

Now I’ve answered your question, can you go back and answer mine please:

 

Why did MacDonald deserve the chance to stay when things were going backwards yet Levein doesn’t when things are moving forwards? 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

The Cathro argument is irrelevant. He had no previous success as a manager to suggest he could turn it around (both Doddy and Levein did) and the alide backwards was extremely dramatic from the 2nd place Neilson left us in. The off the field stuff would have played a huge part too with his media interviews and training ground bust-ups. He had almost 100% of the fans wanting him gone too.

 

Now I’ve answered your question, can you go back and answer mine please:

 

Why did MacDonald deserve the chance to stay when things were going backwards yet Levein doesn’t when things are moving forwards? 

 

That's where we disagree. MacDonald was a new manager, still playing at that time, and was a proven winner, having  won domestic and European trophies at Ibrox. He and Jardine brought a winning mentality to the club. 

Levein, imo, doesn't have that in his locker. He has reverted to the only style of play he knows which only brought limited success 15 years ago. I don't think we will progress any further under him. The 2 situations are completely different.  MacDonald a young manager in his 30s while Levein is at the other end of the scale and doesn't appear to have any new ideas.

7 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Measured against the same criteria being used against Levein, Doddy would have been sacked mid-season 84/85.

 

 

So if we’re holding Levein to account for time as DOF too then the first half two and a half years went perfectly (romped the championship, finished 3rd and qualifiied for Europe, sitting 2nd when Robbie left)

 

 

No way certain fans would. Thankfully most of us are made of sterner stuff and can see the bigger picture in the same way the board did in the 80s ??

 

 

Prior to that run from 86 onwards we finished 5th then 7th so you’re right that patience is required in order to progress. ??

 

 

A man who bleeds maroon is holding the club to hostage.

 

 

It’s because you go from stating readonable opinions and debate one minute to then posting nonsense like above (holding the club hostage) and below (referring to our owner and saviour as wer Annie)

 

 

?

 

 

?

But using your criteria, why was Cathro not given more time to implement his footballing philosophy?  Did you agree with CL or with AB on that issue.

The "bleeding maroon" doesn't really cut it - no pun intended- for me. Yes, you respect him for his playing career but , as with Greig at Rangers, Miller at Aberdeen, McNeill at Celtic, Stanton at Hibs, s,.

[Mister Dee]

Most football clubs crave staibility.

We have become unusual in that our owner is not from the traditional background of hire 'em/fire 'em -she has a very good relationship with CL, but I'd be astonished if she hadn't discussed his potential successor with the board. 

With our current finances, we should be looking at finishing in position 3/4/5 every three seasons. 

What Aberdeen have achieved is exceptional -yet the supporters still aren't happy. Again, stable manager with a good relationship with his owner. 

 

Levein is shrewd. He knows the crucial fixtures are against Hibs, & the Old Firm. Do well in those, and other deficiencies will be forgiven. 

 

Why our performances are so poor against the 'lesser' teams is beyond me, and may ultimately seal his fate. 

[Bazzas right boot]

For the pk now comparing Hearts league performance to real Madrid. 

 

Allot of glue being Inhaled yesterday. 

 

If we finish below 4th and key players like Djoum and Naismith leave we will need to review the best way forward. 

 

The cup is a bonus and I wouldn't want CL sacked, but we need to hit our target of 4th.

 

Being out the top 6 is just very poor. 

 

We have showed potential this season and there is an improvement but we must have some tangible process. 

 

5th and at least a cup final would likely buy him time tbh, but anything below 4th would be a bit shite. 

 

Some serious discussions either way imo, but the worst thing would be to undo any progress this season with the wrong appointment, again. 

 

He's not going either way atm and I expect us to have a semi final to look forward to come the end of Monday. 

[Tasavallan]

Mrs Budge cannot continue to support a management team that fails to deliver her expectations.

 

Less than 4th with no place in Europe would be another failure by Levein, who will, I am sure blame injuries.  Yet teams always have injuries, so no excuse for me.

 

 

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Poster said he wasn’t aware of any successful boot rooms. Just informing him. It’s people that make baseless statements such as there’s never been a successful boot room promotion that just create debate based on false facts. 

Re dated, is Guardiola at Barca a bit more real time? Player, youth coach, reserve coach, manager. 

Oh come on man!

 

It's NEVER HAPPENED. Apart from the times it has happened it has NEVER HAPPENED.

[Bridge of Djoum]

51 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

For the pk now comparing Hearts league performance to real Madrid. 

 

Allot of glue being Inhaled yesterday. 

 

If we finish below 4th and key players like Djoum and Naismith leave we will need to review the best way forward. 

 

The cup is a bonus and I wouldn't want CL sacked, but we need to hit our target of 4th.

 

Being out the top 6 is just very poor. 

 

We have showed potential this season and there is an improvement but we must have some tangible process. 

 

5th and at least a cup final would likely buy him time tbh, but anything below 4th would be a bit shite. 

 

Some serious discussions either way imo, but the worst thing would be to undo any progress this season with the wrong appointment, again. 

 

He's not going either way atm and I expect us to have a semi final to look forward to come the end of Monday. 

I love a good balanced post.

[grumpyespana]

I cannie believe some of our support wanting Craig out, he is slowly building a team like what he did at united also if you look at the bigger picture how many clubs are in the black regarding finance I would give it another two or three years and we will be challenging at the top again. PS. I remember the good old days when our crowds were poor and the likes of Forfar beating us at Tynie.

[Bull's-eye]

1 minute ago, grumpyespana said:

I cannie believe some of our support wanting Craig out, he is slowly building a team like what he did at united also if you look at the bigger picture how many clubs are in the black regarding finance I would give it another two or three years and we will be challenging at the top again. PS. I remember the good old days when our crowds were poor and the likes of Forfar beating us at Tynie.

 

I think the trouble is, these types didn't want him anywhere near Tynecastle in the 1st place. There is no foundation or reason, they just blatantly hate him. 

They vanish when we win and reappear to peddle their hate and negativity at the 1st sign of trouble.

 

As football is a sport to be enjoyed I find them really rather odd.

 

 

[jambali]

2 hours ago, luckydug said:

For all we know plans may already be in place for the day CL  hands over the reigns.

From my point of view I think it will be a smooth handover with Austin taking over as HC. The other coaches probably moving up the ladder in turn.

Craig Levein might take a back seat in which case an experienced DOF could be appointed. 

I don't think we intend to turn into one of those manic hiring and firing clubs as some of our fans would like after every bad run.

Please no...

[davemclaren]

After 18 pages it’s clear that Craig’s time isn’t yet up, as at Sunday 3rd March 2019. 

[Alex Kintner]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That's where we disagree. MacDonald was a new manager, still playing at that time, and was a proven winner, having  won domestic and European trophies at Ibrox. He and Jardine brought a winning mentality to the club. 

Levein, imo, doesn't have that in his locker. He has reverted to the only style of play he knows which only brought limited success 15 years ago. I don't think we will progress any further under him. The 2 situations are completely different.  MacDonald a young manager in his 30s while Levein is at the other end of the scale and doesn't appear to have any new ideas.

But using your criteria, why was Cathro not given more time to implement his footballing philosophy?  Did you agree with CL or with AB on that issue.

The "bleeding maroon" doesn't really cut it - no pun intended- for me. Yes, you respect him for his playing career but , as with Greig at Rangers, Miller at Aberdeen, McNeill at Celtic, Stanton at Hibs, s,.

 

MacDonald brought a winning mentality that saw us win the second tier at the second attempt then finish 5th and 7th.

 

Levein brought a winning mentality which saw us win the second tier at the first attempt then finish 3rd, 5th and 6th. (Seeing as you are counting his time as DoF)

 

Where’s the difference

or are you suggesting MacDonald deserved more leeway because he won trophies as a player?

 

I’ve explained above why Cathro didn’t deserve more time. His appointment was a mistake imo and has set our five year plan back two years.

 

Levein’s “limited success” in his first spell was pretty much all that could be done at that time due to the world class players the old firm  had and we by far the best of the rest.

[luckydug]

13 minutes ago, jambali said:

Please no...

What have you got against Austin ?

What would be your idea of the way forward ?

 

[Finlay James]

4 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That's exactly where the problem lies. We keep hearing about the academy and the stability , the 5 year plan, etc but the football department is disjointed. We used to hear about the same style of play being adopted through every age group with players and coaches, fitting seamlessly into the system when someone else leaves. There is no consistency in team selections  and there is a dearth of youngsters coming through to first team level. Apparently, all it needs is patience and we should be thankful that we have a manager like Levein. Deluded doesn't cover it. 

 

If you can show me where anyone at the club states that all of this would happen over night, your post may have some credibility.  Cutting a long story short, all of what you describe involves complete cultural change, takes time and needs to go through cycles.

 

It will require patience but will bring greater rewards going forward.  The signs are very much that we are heading in the right direction.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

 

If you can show me where anyone at the club states that all of this would happen over night, your post may have some credibility.  Cutting a long story short, all of what you describe involves complete cultural change, takes time and needs to go through cycles.

 

It will require patience but will bring greater rewards going forward.  The signs are very much that we are heading in the right direction.

 

I don’t agree with that last paragraph at all. The signs are that we’re in cycle of finishing top half without being a force or winning anything, constrained by the repetitive failure of signings.

[Enzo Chiefo]

46 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

MacDonald brought a winning mentality that saw us win the second tier at the second attempt then finish 5th and 7th.

 

Levein brought a winning mentality which saw us win the second tier at the first attempt then finish 3rd, 5th and 6th. (Seeing as you are counting his time as DoF)

 

Where’s the difference

or are you suggesting MacDonald deserved more leeway because he won trophies as a player?

 

I’ve explained above why Cathro didn’t deserve more time. His appointment was a mistake imo and has set our five year plan back two years.

 

Levein’s “limited success” in his first spell was pretty much all that could be done at that time due to the world class players the old firm  had and we by far the best of the rest.

I don't recall Alex MacDonald stating that he was struggling to find a syatem that would allow us to score goals, because of injuries. He surpassed anything Levein has achieved as a player or a manager and in that respect, yes, he was a winner. He was able to win at Hampden, Ibrox and Parkhead, he took us to within 7 mins of the league title and a baw hair from the last 4 in the UEFA Cup. Good luck finding any Hearts fan that would ptefer the bore fest we get under Levein to the spell that Doddie had in charge.  

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

42 minutes ago, Finlay James said:

 

If you can show me where anyone at the club states that all of this would happen over night, your post may have some credibility.  Cutting a long story short, all of what you describe involves complete cultural change, takes time and needs to go through cycles.

 

It will require patience but will bring greater rewards going forward.  The signs are very much that we are heading in the right direction.

Overnight? We're nearing the end of the 5 year plan. Can you detail how successful that has been to date?

[Gizmo]

45 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

I don’t agree with that last paragraph at all. The signs are that we’re in cycle of finishing top half without being a force or winning anything, constrained by the repetitive failure of signings.

Seeing as Celtic win ****ing everything I think that's a bit bloody churlish. 

[frankblack]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I don't recall Alex MacDonald stating that he was struggling to find a syatem that would allow us to score goals, because of injuries. He surpassed anything Levein has achieved as a player or a manager and in that respect, yes, he was a winner. He was able to win at Hampden, Ibrox and Parkhead, he took us to within 7 mins of the league title and a baw hair from the last 4 in the UEFA Cup. Good luck finding any Hearts fan that would ptefer the bore fest we get under Levein to the spell that Doddie had in charge.  

 

 

Different eras mate.

 

Some would label the football industrial and limited.  We would be lucky to finish games with 7 men with refs like Beaton and Collum playing that way.

 

His team was massively reliant on Robbo and struggled when teams marked him out the game.

 

Good manager with some good memories but just wouldn't work out now.