End of season Craig Levein poll

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I closed this poll with the majority of voters wanting Levein OUT.

I found out that Hibees and anti Hearts fans corrupted this poll in favour of keeping Levein. 

Now if you believe that you'll believe Levein will win the Treble next season.

4 votes today in favour of Levein took the No’s back in front, bloody trolls ??.

[Jambo-Fox]

6 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I closed this poll with the majority of voters wanting Levein OUT.

I found out that Hibees and anti Hearts fans corrupted this poll in favour of keeping Levein. 

Now if you believe that you'll believe Levein will win the Treble next season.

You closed the poll???

[Jambo-Fox]

7 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

I closed this poll with the majority of voters wanting Levein OUT.

I found out that Hibees and anti Hearts fans corrupted this poll in favour of keeping Levein. 

Now if you believe that you'll believe Levein will win the Treble next season.

Still open ...

[Beast Boy]

9 minutes ago, Hectormasson said:

Probably ,but what I'm trying to say ,its another forum with their views on levein,a forum out side of jkb, 

 

Yes, I agree with you there again. If it is the Singing Section one, then I’d probably be surprised if it wasn’t in the 90 odd percentages for Levein to go. I would imagine even more would want Budge out too. I don’t follow the Twitter page you refer to, but I read a fair few Facebook ones, and they tend to reflect something closer to the results in this poll. From speaking to fans at games, in the pub, at work, and travelling to and from matches, I find something like a 50/50 split. Some people are just quieter in nature, and I often find the pro-Levein types to be in that demographic.

[Enzo Chiefo]

19 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Ian Holloway wants it, shows there is a level of interest in jobs up here.

Imagine the breath of fresh air Ian Holloway, for example, would bring to our club. Instead we're stuck with Levein making every decision from contracts for academy kids to tactics and signings at first team level. The fact that the OF and Hibs have deserted the reserve league may well suggest that he is on the wrong side of that argument too. All because of Ann Budge's comfort zone.

[Hectormasson]

Just now, Icon of Symmetry said:

 

Yes, I agree with you there again. If it is the Singing Section one, then I’d probably be surprised if it wasn’t in the 90 odd percentages for Levein to go. I would imagine even more would want Budge out too. I don’t follow the Twitter page you refer to, but I read a fair few Facebook ones, and they tend to reflect something closer to the results in this poll. From speaking to fans at games, in the pub, at work, and travelling to and from matches, I find something like a 50/50 split. Some people are just quieter in nature, and I often find the pro-Levein types to be in that demographic.

Just renewed like many others,,and want to see a massive improvement," fecking "sad last season watching a lot of that !! Pisses your week off big time ! Heres hoping for a decent season ,no matter who's in charge...

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Hectormasson said:

Just renewed like many others,,and want to see a massive improvement," fecking "sad last season watching a lot of that !! Pisses your week off big time ! Heres hoping for a decent season ,no matter who's in charge...

 

Agreed. HHGH!

[Kiwidoug]

1 minute ago, Hectormasson said:

Just renewed like many others,,and want to see a massive improvement," fecking "sad last season watching a lot of that !! Pisses your week off big time ! Heres hoping for a decent season ,no matter who's in charge...

100%. I honestly feel lucky I haven't had to watch these games and pay for them but if I was in Scotland I would have been at every one.

 

All of the hearts playing and coaching staff will know that the last 3 seasons have been nowhere near good enough and i sure there will be determined resolution to do much better.

 

I can promise you that the misery extends 12,000 miles but i am positive about the future and totally behind all the coaching staff.

 

Well done for renewing.

[Hectormasson]

1 minute ago, Kiwidoug said:

100%. I honestly feel lucky I haven't had to watch these games and pay for them but if I was in Scotland I would have been at every one.

 

All of the hearts playing and coaching staff will know that the last 3 seasons have been nowhere near good enough and i sure there will be determined resolution to do much better.

 

I can promise you that the misery extends 12,000 miles but i am positive about the future and totally behind all the coaching staff.

 

Well done for renewing.

???????????????????????

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Imagine the breath of fresh air Ian Holloway, for example, would bring to our club. Instead we're stuck with Levein making every decision from contracts for academy kids to tactics and signings at first team level. The fact that the OF and Hibs have deserted the reserve league may well suggest that he is on the wrong side of that argument too. All because of Ann Budge's comfort zone.

I can’t stand Holloway to be honest but I take on board what you’re saying. Hitting the refresh button would literally do that for our club.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Asking for guaranteed success? Who would do that?

Success can never be guaranteed and I think my comments may have been taken out of context.

Replacing just a manager with a new manager is relatively simple although it will come with a cost BUT if you're replacing the whole entourage that will come at an enormous cost.

If then you hire a new manager and his entourage you will have to compensate their present club which is more cost again.  That is a huge risk and one we would have to consider very carefully before proceeding as it no doubt dilutes the resources that would be available for new players - and the new man almost certainly would want his own players.  The only managers for whom compensation would not apply are unemployed managers and they are usually unemployed for a reason .  If the new manager delivers no better results then it will have been money down the drain and we're no further forward.

In our case our manager's contract will be up next season when FoH are likely to take over so would a decent new man come to us for such a short term contract?  Maybe but more likely not.

Edited June 4, 2019 by JamboAl

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, Hectormasson said:

Just renewed like many others,,and want to see a massive improvement," fecking "sad last season watching a lot of that !! Pisses your week off big time ! Heres hoping for a decent season ,no matter who's in charge...

Well said 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I can’t stand Holloway to be honest but I take on board what you’re saying. Hitting the refresh button would literally do that for our club.

 

And you really can’t wait one more season to “refresh” (sounds a bit extreme as we’re not a broken club) given the good work levein has done already to extend the contracts of our best players

and sign halkett, as well as blooding some more youngsters?

 

I can’t see us finishing lower than 4th next season, especially if we start like last season. We surely won’t get the same amount of injuries! Absolutely we would not have finished lower than 4th minimum without those.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Guest

[Roland Rat]

Suspect that Levein will be in place next season.  Performance in the cup final has probably bought him some patience with some who wanted him gone beforehand 

 

Things need to improve vastly though. Successive 6th place finishes after the Cathro fiasco are well short of the minimum expectations the Board have seemingly set. We've missed top 4 by around 16 points in each of the last 2 seasons

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Success can never be guaranteed and I think my comments may have been taken out of context.

Replacing just a manager with a new manager is relatively simple although it will come with a cost BUT if you're replacing the whole entourage that will come at an enormous cost.

If then you hire a new manager and his entourage you will have to compensate their present club which is more cost again.  That is a huge risk and one we would have to consider very carefully before proceeding as it no doubt dilutes the resources that would be available for new players - and the new man almost certainly would want his own players.  The only managers for whom compensation would not apply are unemployed managers and they are usually unemployed for a reason .  If the new manager delivers no better results then it will have been money down the drain and we're no further forward.

In our case our manager's contract will be up next season when FoH are likely to take over so would a decent new man come to us for such a short term contract?  Maybe but more likely not.

I agree with most of that but all the teams above us hired managers that were unemployed, our current manager hadn’t managed a club for 7 years and hadn’t had a managers job for four when he took over.

I don’t think

much will change when FoH take over from what people have said.

I would estimate that it would cost between £3-400k to get rid of the four men coaching the first team, about the difference between 3rd and 6th place. Who knows what compensation Levein would be due next summer if he was removed completely.But I don’t have the exact figures so let’s not get into a big debate about it please.

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And you really can’t wait one more season to “refresh” (sounds a bit extreme as we’re not a broken club) given the good work levein has done already to extend the contracts of our best players

and sign halkett, as well as blooding some more youngsters?

 

I can’t see us finishing lower than 4th next season, especially if we start like last season. We surely won’t get the same amount of injuries! Absolutely we would not have finished lower than 4th minimum without those.

Once again you have no guarantees, I can wait as I have no option really. I would rather we didn’t.

As for injuries they level we have suffered these last two seasons with no apparent lessons being learned show no improvements I’m afraid. We have a fair few injury prone players, have signed another one and it’s the main reason we’ve blooded so many youngsters these last two seasons. We were ranked the lowest of teams playing academy graduates until after the split and finished the highest with 8. 

[Roland Rat]

10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I agree with most of that but all the teams above us hired managers that were unemployed, our current manager hadn’t managed a club for 7 years and hadn’t had a managers job for four when he took over.

I don’t think

much will change when FoH take over from what people have said.

I would estimate that it would cost between £3-400k to get rid of the four men coaching the first team, about the difference between 3rd and 6th place. Who knows what compensation Levein would be due next summer if he was removed completely.But I don’t have the exact figures so let’s not get into a big debate about it please.

AB is saving a HC salary by CL performing a dual role. CL is on around £165k per annum which is less than 50% of what McInnes is reportedly pulling out of Aberdeen right now 

[mitch41]

38 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

You closed the poll???

Yes the trolls have taken over.

I am the polls police force.

The poll is done.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Roland Rat said:

AB is saving a HC salary by CL performing a dual role. CL is on around £165k per annum which is less than 50% of what McInnes is reportedly pulling out of Aberdeen right now 

Yes but what I’m unsure of is what happens when his contract as manager ends next season, does he just return to DoF if he doesn’t continue as manager or will another contract be offered before or after the FoH takeover and will it affect this?

[Bazzas right boot]

37 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Imagine the breath of fresh air Ian Holloway, for example, would bring to our club. Instead we're stuck with Levein making every decision from contracts for academy kids to tactics and signings at first team level. The fact that the OF and Hibs have deserted the reserve league may well suggest that he is on the wrong side of that argument too. All because of Ann Budge's comfort zone.

 

Ian Halloway would be interesting and come under the wow factor for me. 

 

 

In regards to the reserves, The of are eyeing up B sides. 

**** hibs., the day we start copying them is the day we have real cause for concern. 

 

 

 

[FarmerTweedy]

On 03/06/2019 at 18:55, To Be Frank said:

 

Iirc, Enzo confidently predicted last years ST sales would be down 20%. We all know how that panned out ?

Last year he was predicting 10-15% down for quite a long time, even way after we'd passed 90% of the previous figure!

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Bring Back Paulo Sergio said:

You're right Frank. We have to look at the 2 sixth place finishes and a place in a cup final that we were given the best opportunity to reach, our impotent attackers and that we basically gave up in the league and didn't put enough to effort to win matches.

 

It's either try to predict the future or try to base an opinion from the facts we have presently. One thing you shouldn't do is mock people that use evidence while using a faith argument. 

 

 

 

Are you suggesting things like Tarot cards aren’t a reliable source for basing decisions on?

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Last year he was predicting 10-15% down for quite a long time, even way after we'd passed 90% of the previous figure!

 

Someone posted earlier on the thread a link to him saying we’d only sell 11,000 which was then revised to being down 10-15%

[Roland Rat]

27 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes but what I’m unsure of is what happens when his contract as manager ends next season, does he just return to DoF if he doesn’t continue as manager or will another contract be offered before or after the FoH takeover and will it affect this?

Not sure on that. Not sure whether the DOF role is a fixed term contract or not. Quite possibly not

 

Read some posts on here suggesting a change in coaching personnel coming be witnessed over the close season. Something needs to change. I would imagine Levein might make changes in order to preserve himself 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Roland Rat said:

Not sure on that. Not sure whether the DOF role is a fixed term contract or not. Quite possibly not

 

Read some posts on here suggesting a change in coaching personnel coming be witnessed over the close season. Something needs to change. I would imagine Levein might make changes in order to preserve himself 

Self preservation is his thing and is a part of a lot his decisions, rarely takes the blame for anything. 

[Roland Rat]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Self preservation is his thing and is a part of a lot his decisions, rarely takes the blame for anything. 

If he does remain for next season the time for excuses is over. Top 4 will be a minimum expectation and he'll surely know that. I'm still a bit perplexed at how Ann Budge thinks it's acceptable to fail to meet a minimum league finish expectation 3 years in a row by such a vast distance on each occasion 

 

To win the Championship by over 20 points and then finish behind Rangers and Hibs in each of the subsequent 3 years (2 years in case of Hibs) is not really a sign of progress 

 

Big season next season 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Roland Rat

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Roland Rat said:

If he does remain for next season the time for excuses is over. Top 4 will be a minimum expectation and he'll surely know that. I'm still a bit perplexed at how Ann Budge thinks it's acceptable to fail to meet a minimum league finish expectation 3 years in a row by such a vast distance on each occasion 

 

To win the Championship by over 20 points and then finish behind Rangers and Hibs in each of the subsequent 3 years (2 years in case of Hibs) is not really a sign of progress 

 

Big season next season 

Agreed.

[Jodami]

The fact that Levein is definitely going to stay at the club for the last year of his contract shouldn't be a barrier to change. The shake up needs to be on the coaching side and that could still happen. Finishing sixth was disappointing but what was more concerning was our inability to dominate smaller teams at Tynecastle and how ponderous we are going forward. That needs to be a focus in the close season but in truth it could be well into the season before we consistently deliver. That would be a sign of real progress and would be a solid base to build on. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

I agree with most of that but all the teams above us hired managers that were unemployed, our current manager hadn’t managed a club for 7 years and hadn’t had a managers job for four when he took over.

I don’t think

much will change when FoH take over from what people have said.

I would estimate that it would cost between £3-400k to get rid of the four men coaching the first team, about the difference between 3rd and 6th place. Who knows what compensation Levein would be due next summer if he was removed completely.But I don’t have the exact figures so let’s not get into a big debate about it please.

3

I agree your first point but we have a DoF/Manager which I think complicates things slightly.  It depends how much of a handle Mrs B has on things now as she admittedly needed a lot of help at the beginning as she learned the ropes about football.

You're right too about not getting into figures but unless the new coaches were also unemployed, we might have to pay a lumper to their existing club.  Then there is the possibility they will want their own players (and not want some we already have) which comes at a cost.  We have had difficulties trying to move on examples like Sammon (Neilson signing) and Martin (Cathro signing) as they sat on their contracts which highlights potential difficulties with managerial changes.

All in all, I think it's too much of a risk to take but if things haven't improved by say November we need to take the bull by the horns - unless there is good reason such as being decimated again by serious injuries.

[Roland Rat]

23 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I agree your first point but we have a DoF/Manager which I think complicates things slightly.  It depends how much of a handle Mrs B has on things now as she admittedly needed a lot of help at the beginning as she learned the ropes about football.

You're right too about not getting into figures but unless the new coaches were also unemployed, we might have to pay a lumper to their existing club.  Then there is the possibility they will want their own players (and not want some we already have) which comes at a cost.  We have had difficulties trying to move on examples like Sammon (Neilson signing) and Martin (Cathro signing) as they sat on their contracts which highlights potential difficulties with managerial changes.

All in all, I think it's too much of a risk to take but if things haven't improved by say November we need to take the bull by the horns - unless there is good reason such as being decimated again by serious injuries.

Injuries have been and over used excuse in my view. We've basically been shite since November. We're clearly incredibly reliant on a player who ordinarily we couldn't afford and who's already subsidised wages have been supplemented by non income derived contributions 

[sadj]

5 hours ago, Roland Rat said:

AB is saving a HC salary by CL performing a dual role. CL is on around £165k per annum which is less than 50% of what McInnes is reportedly pulling out of Aberdeen right now 

You have the wrong figure for McInnes if you think 50% is even in the ballpark to mention it.

[Jammy T]

20 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Both of them get slagged off on here all the time. Have been for years. Then others pop up and vouch for both of them. This is continually ignored, and the nonsense starts up again. And again. And again.

 

There's different kinds of football fans. Some fans seem to think that they must support the manager (or the owner) at all times, and attack anyone who doesn't. Even when those who don't actually want the exact same thing: success for Hearts. Enzo and Mitch were fiercely critical of Vlad, so got it in the neck; and are fiercely critical of Levein, so are getting it in the neck again. Yet they couldn't have been more right first time round... and all the evidence says they're right this time too. 

 

 

As somebody that also got it in the neck for my views on Romanov (a founding member of the Pyramid of Pish FFS), and I know you did too (amongst other things), your last 10 words simply don’t make sense.

 

ALL the evidence says no such thing.

 

What has changed since Romanov is fans expectations are higher (bizarrely - one what might have been league season and two cups both won stutteringly in their own way).

 

League form and consistency of performances need to improve but if people can’t see we have the foundations in place for that to happen it is difficult to have a reasoned debate.  

[Jammy T]

4 hours ago, Roland Rat said:

Injuries have been and over used excuse in my view. We've basically been shite since November. We're clearly incredibly reliant on a player who ordinarily we couldn't afford and who's already subsidised wages have been supplemented by non income derived contributions 

 

And Levein has recognised this and has said recruitment this summer will focus on bringing in more players to the team/squad who could be considered game changers and match winners. 

 

As the transfer window hasnt hasn’t opened yet he hasn’t had the chance to fix that problem but he recognises it.

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 hours ago, Roland Rat said:

If he does remain for next season the time for excuses is over. Top 4 will be a minimum expectation and he'll surely know that. I'm still a bit perplexed at how Ann Budge thinks it's acceptable to fail to meet a minimum league finish expectation 3 years in a row by such a vast distance on each occasion 

 

To win the Championship by over 20 points and then finish behind Rangers and Hibs in each of the subsequent 3 years (2 years in case of Hibs) is not really a sign of progress 

 

Big season next season 

It appears that she just moves the goalposts and lowers the targets in order for Levein to meet them. Maintaining his position, seems to be the most important issue for her. The club seem to be stuck on Flight Mode as regards communication but it will be interesting to read her end of term report, if and when it is delivered.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Jammy T said:

 

And Levein has recognised this and has said recruitment this summer will focus on bringing in more players to the team/squad who could be considered game changers and match winners. 

 

As the transfer window hasnt hasn’t opened yet he hasn’t had the chance to fix that problem but he recognises it.

Psst, it opened on the 16th of May ?https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2019/jun/04/football-transfer-window-2019-every-summer-deal-from-europe-top-five-leagues

Edited June 5, 2019 by Pasquale for King

[WeeToonJambo]

37 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Psst, it opened on the 16th of May ?https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2019/jun/04/football-transfer-window-2019-every-summer-deal-from-europe-top-five-leagues

I'm pretty sure it's next week, 11th June.

[Roland Rat]

3 hours ago, sadj said:

You have the wrong figure for McInnes if you think 50% is even in the ballpark to mention it.

I would imagine McInnes is on upwards of £300k pa? 

[JamboAl]

7 hours ago, Roland Rat said:

Injuries have been and over used excuse in my view. We've basically been shite since November. We're clearly incredibly reliant on a player who ordinarily we couldn't afford and who's already subsidised wages have been supplemented by non income derived contributions 

6

If you're saying injuries had no/little impact on our season, let's just agree to disagree.

[Roland Rat]

2 hours ago, Jammy T said:

 

And Levein has recognised this and has said recruitment this summer will focus on bringing in more players to the team/squad who could be considered game changers and match winners. 

 

As the transfer window hasnt hasn’t opened yet he hasn’t had the chance to fix that problem but he recognises it.

This is the acid test then I would suggest. We need players who can make an impact. Not ones to make up the numbers. If his idea of "game changers" is Jamie Walker as is being speculated, I'm not so inspired 

 

Big summer for Levein. Cup final performance has perhaps bought him a stay of execution for now in the eyes of some. Many remain disgruntled and it will take a good start along with good well thought out recruitment in order to pacify growing numbers. Comments made by Budge in the days leading up to the cup final appear to indicate she has quite the blind spot where Levein is concerned 

[redjambo]

43 minutes ago, WeeToonJambo said:

I'm pretty sure it's next week, 11th June.

 

It is.

 

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/scottish-summer-transfer-window-open-14978529

[Roland Rat]

11 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

If you're saying injuries had no/little impact on our season, let's just agree to disagree.

I'm stating my belief that injuries are over used in justifying what was a totally unacceptable sequence of results and performances from the LC semi final onwards. Of course injuries hampered us. Aberdeen had a number of injuries as did Hibs. They were without Boyle for the second half of the season for example 

 

At the AGM Levein basically admitted that he had ran out of ideas once Uche got injured. He only had MacLean fit at one stage, but look at the manner in which he utilised him. Watch the 90 mins at Almondvale for a horrible example. Part of his solution was to try and get Vanecek in early. Least said about that the better 

 

Clearly the loss of Naismith has been profound. Anyone in the league would miss a player like him. But to be so reliant on him to begin with is the concern. A player who is here through Norwich paying the lion share of his wages and the part we are paying being met through non income generated contributions is a further concern. Kilmarnock amassed more than 30 points more than us in just over 18 months with a significantly inferior budget. Hibs get promoted 2 years after us yet finish above us in each of the seasons thereafter. These are not signs of progress no matter how hard some may try to convince to the contrary 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Roland Rat

[sadj]

28 minutes ago, Roland Rat said:

I would imagine McInnes is on upwards of £300k pa? 

Yes , he is well upwards of £300k pa

[Roland Rat]

Just now, sadj said:

Yes , he is well upwards of £300k pa

That was my point. Levein will be lucky if he's earning 50% of what McInnes is earning 

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Roland Rat said:

That was my point. Levein will be lucky if he's earning 50% of what McInnes is earning 

I’d suggest its less than a quarter

[Roland Rat]

Just now, sadj said:

I’d suggest its less than a quarter

McInnes is on nearly £700k? Surely not 

[Forever Hearts]

It's amazing what a defeat in a cup final can do in changing people's minds. We lost and the football has been utter crap for 75% of the season. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

25 minutes ago, sadj said:

Yes , he is well upwards of £300k pa

750k according to recent reports.

[Nookie Bear]

25 minutes ago, Roland Rat said:

That was my point. Levein will be lucky if he's earning 50% of what McInnes is earning 

 

As a PHM, he won't mind taking a hit for the Greater Good

[Roland Rat]

5 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

As a PHM, he won't mind taking a hit for the Greater Good

McInnes surely can't be on 4 x what Levein is on as someone suggested earlier 

 

Budge is saving a fair whack on a HC salary by asking Craig to fix the Cathro fiasco though 

 

[Gene Parmesan]

2 minutes ago, Roland Rat said:

McInnes surely can't be on 4 x what Levein is on as someone suggested earlier 

 

He absolutely is. McInnes would have had to take a wage cut to take the Scotland job.