End of season Craig Levein poll

[Beast Boy]

5 minutes ago, Barack said:

Think you have to discount the multiple account holders from other Hearts fora, yes.

 

Their own wee pishy polls they do, to keep the fake outrage of the 10 or 15 of the more established arseholes on there relevant, are sadly heavily biased & are more interested in trolling this poll, rather than give logical & reasoned debate over it.

 

Shame.

 

 

 

Perfect summation.

[DalryJambo]

1 hour ago, Whatever said:

 

And the club wouldn’t suffer financially if we were to get rid, hire a new man and let him rip the squad apart? - all with no guarantee of well, anything really?

 

CL has proven he can mould a very decent team given time. He showed that at the start of last season. We hope injuries aren’t as bad (surely not??!) We add to the squad with 4/5 signings that aim to improve the first team (not the huge turnover of previous summers. And we let the very talented young players supplement the squad and quality of the squad further.

 

Taking all of that into account, it would be ridiculous to rip it all up and start again under a new man.

 

I fully expect HMFC to be much improved next season.

 

I couldn’t agree with a post more than I do this one.

 

Ripping things up and starting again at this point in the process could set us back two years like it did with Cathro.

[Bazzas right boot]

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

49 minutes ago, Prof said:

Still waiting to read the massive list of achievements of CL as a manager.

 

 

Unfortunately same as Doddie as Hearts manager, along with many more. 

 

However, recently he Improved our league performance, lc performance and sc performance in his first full season v the previous one. 

 

 

Nice of a Hearts fan to rub the defeat in off celtic all but a week ago, tho. 

Classy. 

 

Great stuff, who needs enemies, eh? 

[Bridge of Djoum]

And now over to Vincent Hanna...

Edited June 2, 2019 by Bridge of Djoum

[Bazzas right boot]

If it ends up a no or even a close yes, then it can be classed as a success for the posters who put forward a rational argument for keeping him. 

 

Logic- rationale beating slavers, tag lines and nonesense. 

It's not in line with recent world events. 

 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, DalryJambo said:

 

I couldn’t agree with a post more than I do this one.

 

Ripping things up and starting again at this point in the process could set us back two years like it did with Cathro.

 

Exactly. The risk of a another poor league campaign seems much higher with a complete new managerial and coaching team, not to mention setting some of the younger lads back a bit potentially, plus all the extra cost involved of changing the manager and the inevitable squad shake-up. And the cost maybe some aren't considering of splitting the DoF and manager wage into two. We'll be doing all that in one season's time anyhow.

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

 

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Prof said:

Still waiting to read the massive list of achievements of CL as a manager.

 

 

It would still be a longer list than, say, Steve Clarke's.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Mods really need to shut this down. 

 

Nothing new left. Time for bans if anyone mentions his name again 

 

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Has everything got to be explained to you in words of one syllable?

Cathro was young to become a manager and so was always a risk.  Some new/young managers grow into the job like Villas-Boas while others struggle.  IC was a very good coach, apparently, with European experience in Spain and Portugal as well as here in Scotland and England.  He worked abroad under Nuno Espirito Santos and also with Newcastle under Steve McLaren and Rafa Benitez where he was 1st team coach.  That is a pretty good CV and must be well enough respected for Santos to re-hire him at Wolves.

With hindsight, of which you are clearly a master, it did not work out but that is the danger with people who drag their feet and are frightened of change.  They keep on doing the same things wrong over and over again and expect to get a different result.

 

I’ll ignore your usual

sarcasm - pretty childish stuff!

If you actually read the thread before spouting off you would see that I was responding to a poster who felt Cathro failed because he lacked communication skills and charisma.

My point was that Levein knew Cathro better than anybody and must have been aware of his personality defects.

With that knowledge the appointment was ill considered as we found out to our cost!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Sir Gio said:

Mods really need to shut this down. 

 

Nothing new left. Time for bans if anyone mentions his name again 

 

 

Take the Michael Stewart approach and never refer to Levein by name. Just "the manager".

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Take the Michael Stewart approach and never refer to Levein by name. Just "the manager".

Kickbacks version of "The Scottish Play " in theatre 

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

I’ll ignore your usual

sarcasm - pretty childish stuff!

If you actually read the thread before spouting off you would see that I was responding to a poster who felt Cathro failed because he lacked communication skills and charisma.

My point was that Levein knew Cathro better than anybody and must have been aware of his personality defects.

With that knowledge the appointment was ill considered as we found out to our cost!

I'll ignore your plea for victim status and say my comments still stand.

Read my post again.

[Prof]

4 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It would still be a longer list than, say, Steve Clarke's.

Really- taking a crap team like Killie to the top 3. CL and his protégée  have done the opposite. It seems a few are happy that not getting horsed in the cup final against a poor Celtic team outweighs the mind numbing football at Tynecastle since the start of the year.

[Guest]

Just now, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

I’ll ignore your usual

sarcasm - pretty childish stuff!

If you actually read the thread before spouting off you would see that I was responding to a poster who felt Cathro failed because he lacked communication skills and charisma.

My point was that Levein knew Cathro better than anybody and must have been aware of his personality defects.

With that knowledge the appointment was ill considered as we found out to our cost!

 

That's very Kris Boyd. The guy just had a philosophy that ignored the reality of Scottish football and the players he was working with. Levein gave him a chance and he failed to take it, partly because of his very inflated sense of his own ability IMO (so maybe that was the main personality defect). I can't see any other reason for why he thought he could rip up the team instead of continuing Neilson's good work and adding to it. Levein's biggest mistake for us IMO isn't so much appointing Cathro but not mentoring him for half a season instead of just letting him loose. Thought at the time Levein as caretaker with Cathro as assistant would have been much more sensible.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Prof said:

Really- taking a crap team like Killie to the top 3. CL and his protégée  have done the opposite. It seems a few are happy that not getting horsed in the cup final against a poor Celtic team outweighs the mind numbing football at Tynecastle since the start of the year.

 

I'm looking at Levein and Clarke's careers as a whole as neither have won a trophy as a manager, including achievements like players developed, cup finals reached, teams built, league placings. Folk think of Clarke (who I think has done brilliantly and look forward to him turning Scotland around) as some new hot manager - he's older than Levein. Levein had the guts to commit to managerial career and has stayed pretty much around the top level the whole time.

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Guest

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, Prof said:

Really- taking a crap team like Killie to the top 3. CL and his protégée  have done the opposite. It seems a few are happy that not getting horsed in the cup final against a poor Celtic team outweighs the mind numbing football at Tynecastle since the start of the year.

 

The TH poll has went your way chief. ?

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

 

He very much is and always will be but the Cup Final showed its not always a divided support come game time and the team is bigger. The fans will always be divided outside of that as we are all opinionated , from different backgrounds or understanding of things , patience levels and all have forums and social media to bleat on...

 

You are absolutely correct. When the chips are down our love for the Club transcends everything! ❤️

[Thomaso]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I'll ignore your plea for victim status and say my comments still stand.

Read my post again.

 

The problem is Al you seem unable to post without your usual brand of sarcasm and personal insults, and as a result your (at times) excellent comments are diluted for the recipient.

[Thomaso]

9 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

That's very Kris Boyd. The guy just had a philosophy that ignored the reality of Scottish football and the players he was working with. Levein gave him a chance and he failed to take it, partly because of his very inflated sense of his own ability IMO (so maybe that was the main personality defect). I can't see any other reason for why he thought he could rip up the team instead of continuing Neilson's good work and adding to it. Levein's biggest mistake for us IMO isn't so much appointing Cathro but not mentoring him for half a season instead of just letting him loose. Thought at the time Levein as caretaker with Cathro as assistant would have been much more sensible.

 

Kris Boyd is a fat erse - unfortunately for us he was proven to be correct on Cathro to our cost!!

[Whatever]

Leveins biggest mistake was not hiring Cathro (although doing so was ultimately a mistake), it was backing him to such an extent that wholesale changes were allowed to be made to the squad. (Think we signed 9 players in the January?)

 

A novice head coach in charge of many players who were on short term contracts was never going to end well.

 

With hindsight, the bulk of the players Cathro inherited should have been retained. That way if things weren’t successful, the changes required in the Summer wouldn’t have needed to be so drastic.

 

Levein and the board allowing Cathro to do what he did was what set us back massively. Imo.

[JamboAl]

4 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

The problem is Al you seem unable to post without your usual brand of sarcasm and personal insults, and as a result your (at times) excellent comments are diluted for the recipient.

OH dear, still claiming victim status.  You obviously think I'm a divisive character as well as CL.  The fact that you don't like him clearly affects and dilutes the worth of most of your posts.  Can I suggest you try a more balanced approach in the future. 

BTW what is your view on the post that caused you some personal distress?

[Guest]

The No vote stretching away now like a trademark Levein run with the ball out of defence.

[Alex Kintner]

One of the most interesting things about this poll is that the longer it runs the more the support for Levein grows. I expected a post-final bounce which would then fade after a few days but that hasn’t been the case

[Thomaso]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

OH dear, still claiming victim status.  You obviously think I'm a divisive character as well as CL.  The fact that you don't like him clearly affects and dilutes the worth of most of your posts.  Can I suggest you try a more balanced approach in the future. 

BTW what is your view on the post that caused you some personal distress?

 

Yeh very good chum. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Think I’ll leave it at that.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Whatever said:

Leveins biggest mistake was not hiring Cathro (although doing so was ultimately a mistake), it was backing him to such an extent that wholesale changes were allowed to be made to the squad. (Think we signed 9 players in the January?)

 

A novice head coach in charge of many players who were on short term contracts was never going to end well.

 

With hindsight, the bulk of the players Cathro inherited should have been retained. That way if things weren’t successful, the changes required in the Summer wouldn’t have needed to be so drastic.

 

Levein and the board allowing Cathro to do what he did was what set us back massively. Imo.

 

It was madness. When Cathro arrived we were on a 5 or 6 game unbeaten run and around 2nd. Walker was on fire. Jonsson had settled in and was scoring. Someone like Muirhead was proving useful off the bench and at set pieces. Rossi was solid. Even Sammon looked like he could offer something coming off the bench to close games out, eg in the Rangers win. Djoum should have returned full of confidence to a heroes welcome in the dressing room after winning the African cup and instead he came back to a complete new dressing room. Ok, Paterson got injured - unlucky for us (again)  - but the squad just needed a few additions, which Neilson and Levein had been talking about before he left.

 

Unbelievable people still think Levein meddled as a DoF. If ever he should have meddled it should have been then.

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

Yeh very good chum. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. Think I’ll leave it at that.

So you're not going to answer on the substantive point but are willing to exchange insults.

That says it all!

[Whatever]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

It was madness. When Cathro arrived we were on a 5 or 6 game unbeaten run and around 2nd. Walker was on fire. Jonsson had settled in and was scoring. Someone like Muirhead was proving useful off the bench and at set pieces. Rossi was solid. Even Sammon looked like he could offer something coming off the bench to close games out, eg in the Rangers win. Djoum should have returned full of confidence to a heroes welcome in the dressing room after winning the African cup and instead he came back to a complete new dressing room. Ok, Paterson got injured - unlucky for us (again)  - but the squad just needed a few additions, which Neilson and Levein had been talking about before he left.

 

Unbelievable people still think Levein meddled as a DoF. If ever he should have meddled it should have been then.

 

Spot ****in on.

 

??

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, Whatever said:

 

Spot ****in on.

 

??

+1

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

So how would you know what they voted?

That's a fine question. If they're voting stay, he must be pish and if they're voting leave , he must be good.

Edited June 2, 2019 by ri Alban

[Thomaso]

4 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

So you're not going to answer on the substantive point but are willing to exchange insults.

That says it all!

 

Calling you out for your unique brand of sarcasm is not “exchanging insults”.

As for your “substantive point” try making them in a civil manner and you’ll get a civil response Al.

[Randy Marsh]

9 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

One of the most interesting things about this poll is that the longer it runs the more the support for Levein grows. I expected a post-final bounce which would then fade after a few days but that hasn’t been the case

 

Correct.  I think there were a few knee jerk reactions after the cup final for a few days.  I voted to change manager but I am slowly starting to think CL deserves another year.  I only think we need to sign 4 new players this summer assuming we get Naismith. We have some promising youngsters that now deserve a chance.  

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

Calling you out for your unique brand of sarcasm is not “exchanging insults”.

As for your “substantive point” try making them in a civil manner and you’ll get a civil response Al.

You don't have a response, hence your attempt at diversion.

[JamboGraham]

It's actually a very well phrased question from the OP. I don't know if it was deliberate or not but I think the fact that it wasn't along the lines of naming the manager, presenting thoughts on previous performance, etc. will have helped to produce a more 'thoughtful' vote.

 

 

 

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Reported for trolling.

 

Really? ?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

33 minutes ago, JamboGraham said:

It's actually a very well phrased question from the OP. I don't know if it was deliberate or not but I think the fact that it wasn't along the lines of naming the manager, presenting thoughts on previous performance, etc. will have helped to produce a more 'thoughtful' vote.

 

 

 

Thanks. Yes, it was deliberate as I wanted to minimise the personalisation of Craig Levein and maintain the focus on the first team.

[Bazzas right boot]

The poll results are clear. 

 

Some posters talk complete and utter horse shite (more than normal). 

 

Pretty conclusive result. 

Good poll. 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

13 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

The poll results are clear. 

 

Some posters talk complete and utter horse shite (more than normal). 

 

Pretty conclusive result. 

Good poll. 

 

Thanks for sharing your self awareness.

[Thomaso]

18 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

The poll results are clear. 

 

Some posters talk complete and utter horse shite (more than normal). 

 

Pretty conclusive result. 

Good poll. 

 

 

How can 50.2% - 49.8% poll be a “conclusive result”??? ?

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

How can 50.2% - 49.8% poll be a “conclusive result”??? ?

 

The conclusive result is that the answer is inconclusive, of course.

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 

How can 50.2% - 49.8% poll be a “conclusive result”??? ?

 

 It's conclusive that folk were talking shite - 

 

On this thread, gems such as - 

 

90% of Heart's fans

Most Hearts fans

The vast majority of Hearts fans

All Hearts fans

 

.... Want CL gone. 

 

 

Shite, tripe, lies, Mince. 

 

These folk were talking shite. 

The poll is conclusive on this, if nothing else. ?

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Thanks for sharing your self awareness.

 

You should try it, self awareness that is. 

Not talking shite, you are well ahead on that front. 

 

 

[sadj]

I demand a recount...stinks of Russian interference...well last known location Russia type interference

[merseyjambo]

3 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 It's conclusive that folk were talking shite - 

 

On this thread, gems such as - 

 

90% of Heart's fans

Most Hearts fans

The vast majority of Hearts fans

All Hearts fans

 

.... Want CL gone. 

 

 

Shite, tripe, lies, Mince. 

 

These folk were talking shite. 

The poll is conclusive on this, if nothing else. ?

 

 

 

Wow, did you also say that 5m people voting for the Brexit Party is a clear mandate for Brexit.

 

It’s a 50/50 split of less than a tenth of our support. 

 

Truth will I’ll be in the ST numbers once they’re known. The ones that go to the games regularly. If they vote with their feet, then we have a problem

[Whatever]

8 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Wow, did you also say that 5m people voting for the Brexit Party is a clear mandate for Brexit.

 

It’s a 50/50 split of less than a tenth of our support. 

 

Truth will I’ll be in the ST numbers once they’re known. The ones that go to the games regularly. If they vote with their feet, then we have a problem

 

Eh.....The current season ticket numbers will already be known by the club. Seeing as we’re now past the renewal date.

 

If they were significantly down, a decision would have already been made.

 

Much like the claims of fan unrest re CL, I suspect strongly the claims of poor ST sales will have been greatly exaggerated.

 

The Hearts support is made of strong stuff. ??

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Whatever

[Randy Marsh]

26 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Thanks for sharing your self awareness.

 

You just reminded me why I have that poster on ignore Geoff.  His patter is honking.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

24 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

You should try it, self awareness that is. 

Not talking shite, you are well ahead on that front. 

 

 

Such anger. By Kickback standards, this is actually a decent thread. Then you intervene.

[merseyjambo]

23 minutes ago, Whatever said:

 

Eh.....The current season ticket numbers will already be known by the club. Seeing as we’re now past the renewal date.

 

If they were significantly down, a decision would have already been made.

 

Much like the claims of fan unrest re CL, I suspect strongly the claims of poor ST sales will have been greatly exaggerated.

 

The Hearts support is made of strong stuff. ??

 

 

 

No they wouldn’t. Budge believes this season has been ok so that’s all that matters. 

 

We will see where the ST figures are once they are open to general sale. Anything less than 10k and it should be a wake up call

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Wow, did you also say that 5m people voting for the Brexit Party is a clear mandate for Brexit.

 

It’s a 50/50 split of less than a tenth of our support. 

 

Truth will I’ll be in the ST numbers once they’re known. The ones that go to the games regularly. If they vote with their feet, then we have a problem

 

Realistically, history shows we have a hardcore support of around 10,000 who will contribute to FoH, buy Sts and merch, go to games whenever they can no matter how we're doing. It's better than all clubs outside the OF. The rest might come and go due to finances or because they don't like the current manager or "style" or some other excuse.

 

So during a decent spell, 3000 or so might commit to going to more games but will disappear when things aren't so good. Luckily we won't ever (I hope) be making rash decisions around managers etc based on the whims of those people (not judging, not everyone can go all the time or contribute financially but those who can but choose not to for subjective manager/style of play reasons have to be aware that they are making our success less likely, the same as the folk who boo their own team during games).

Edited June 2, 2019 by Guest