JamboAl Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Have you got any proof of this, all I can find is transfer market saying it ends on 30th of June and the EN says his loan deal runs until then too? I hope you’re right though. Contracts in England tend to run from July until June the following year. My understanding is that if he signs for someone else in June, he won't be unemployed in July and will therefore miss out on the 13 month payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 I will be amazed again if he doesn't feature in the League Cup during July Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said: Have you got any proof of this, all I can find is transfer market saying it ends on 30th of June and the EN says his loan deal runs until then too? I hope you’re right though. Have a look at this. He has a contract which expires on 1 July, and that includes the extra month that is being referred to. His loan deal with HMFC expired at the end of May, but under his existing contract if he remains affiliated to Norwich until 1 July he receives the additional 4 weeks payment being referred to at various points on this thread. From 1 July he is unattached to any club and can therefore sign for anyone from that date, without losing the money from Norwich for June. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/steven-naismith/profil/spieler/12763 In my original reply to the poster I did say his contract ended in May, and although I knew what I was saying I accept it doesn't sound that way. The loan deal ended then but to trigger the additional 4 weeks payment he couldn't/cant do anything until 1 July. Edited June 22, 2019 by portobellojambo1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloustonHMFC Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said: Have a look at this. He has a contract which expires on 1 July, and that includes the extra month that is being referred to. His loan deal with HMFC expired at the end of May, but under his existing contract if he remains affiliated to Norwich until 1 July he receives the additional 4 weeks payment being referred to at various points on this thread. From 1 July he is unattached to any club and can therefore sign for anyone from that date, without losing the money from Norwich for June. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/steven-naismith/profil/spieler/12763 In my original reply to the poster I did say his contract ended in May, and although I knew what I was saying I accept it doesn't sound that way. The loan deal ended then but to trigger the additional 4 weeks payment he couldn't/cant do anything until 1 July. Not true. The extra month for his payment runs until the end of July and he needs to be ‘unemployed’ until then. He can continue to train with us and feature as a trialist in preseason friendlies however if the delay is the extra payment, he won’t officially be a Hearts player until 01/08. Edited June 22, 2019 by clouston1992 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, clouston1992 said: Not true. The extra month for his payment runs until the end of July and he needs to be ‘unemployed’ until then. He can train with us from 1/07 and feature as a trialist in preseason friendlies however if the delay is the extra payment, he won’t officially be a Hearts player until 01/08. I'll take your word for it. I got to this page via Norwich City's official website, and I thought they might know the players in and outs. If the extra payment doesn't kick in as you say until 01/07 then maybe the payment of the additional 4 weeks that is being referred to on this thread is the money from the end of his loan deal with us, i.e. end of May until the end of his contract with Norwich, i.e. end of June, because presumably if his loan deal with us ended on 31 May we, HMFC, wouldn't be paying him anything during June but Norwich City will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamtartan74 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said: I know, I read the article! Trying to get to the bottom of why we have folk advocating paying a fee for a player we can get for free? To be clear, I wasn’t saying we should pay a fee it was Doug suggested it, he will sign for free you are correct. What I was getting at was if other clubs wanted him before we can officially sign him and if it took us paying the £150k to secure it then I would absolutely pay it. Anyway he’s going to sign for free so win win ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloustonHMFC Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said: I'll take your word for it. I got to this page via Norwich City's official website, and I thought they might know the players in and outs. If the extra payment doesn't kick in as you say until 01/07 then maybe the payment of the additional 4 weeks that is being referred to on this thread is the money from the end of his loan deal with us, i.e. end of May until the end of his contract with Norwich, i.e. end of June, because presumably if his loan deal with us ended on 31 May we, HMFC, wouldn't be paying him anything during June but Norwich City will be. As far as I’m aware, the extra payment is a payment from PFA and for that to happen you must be unemployed for one month after the end of your contract. His contract officially expires on 30/6 so for the extra payment to kick in he has to be be officially unattached to any club for one month after that date. If this is what is holding up his signing being official then the contract won’t be signed until start of August. As he’d be a free agent he can train with us and feature as a trialist in friendlies, he just couldn’t play competitively until start of August as he wouldn’t officially be our player. The money for June that you refer to would still be due from Norwich as it would be his salary he is legally entitled to until 30/6. Edited June 22, 2019 by clouston1992 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, clouston1992 said: As far as I’m aware, the extra payment is a payment from PFA and for that to happen you must be unemployed for one month after the end of your contract. His contract officially expires on 30/6 so for the extra payment to kick in he has to be be officially unattached to any club for one month after that date. If this is what is holding up his signing being official then the contract won’t be signed until start of August. As he’d be a free agent he can train with us and feature as a trialist in friendlies, he just couldn’t play competitively until start of August as he wouldn’t officially be our player. I do understand what you are saying, but I'm beginning to think that the fact that he hasn't yet signed isn't because he is holding out to get some extra money from Norwich (i.e. the payment from end of June to beginning of August), but in truth all he is actually doing is allowing his actual existing contract to run its course, until the end of June, when he will receive his final payment from Norwich without breaching anything. I think maybe many were hoping that when the loan deal finished at the end of May he might have considered signing for us then, but by doing so he would be giving up the final month's payment of his existing contract and possibly been subject to other financial penalties for breaching said contract. Edited June 22, 2019 by portobellojambo1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloustonHMFC Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said: I do understand what you are saying, but I'm beginning to think that the fact that he hasn't yet signed isn't because he is holding out to get some extra money from Norwich (i.e. the payment from end of June to beginning of August), but in truth all he is actually doing is allowing his actual existing contract to run its course, until the end of June, when he will receive his final payment from Norwich without breaching anything. I think maybe many were hoping that when the loan deal finished at the end of May he might have considered signing for us then, but by doing so he would be giving up the final month's payment of his existing contract and possibly been subject to other financial penalties for breaching said contract. I get your thinking but none of that is true. He could have signed at any point from January without forgoing salary or breach of contract as it would be a pre-contract he signed which would not take effect until his Norwich contract expired. It’s an unattached payment, circa £150k, that he’ll get if he’s officially unattached from a club for one month after his contract expires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said: I know, I read the article! Trying to get to the bottom of why we have folk advocating paying a fee for a player we can get for free? Especially when there was a loan fee and some wages covered for a player out injured the majority of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said: Getting Naismith for £0 instead of paying £150k makes no sense? Correct. That, in a reverse sort of way, would be like putting money on a horse that has already lost it’s race. If you get my drift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 12 minutes ago, Morgan said: Correct. That, in a reverse sort of way, would be like putting money on a horse that has already lost it’s race. If you get my drift? Or putting money on David Vanacek to be the top scorer in the Scottish Premiership over the 2019/20 season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb1874 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 hour ago, portobellojambo1 said: I'll take your word for it. I got to this page via Norwich City's official website, and I thought they might know the players in and outs. If the extra payment doesn't kick in as you say until 01/07 then maybe the payment of the additional 4 weeks that is being referred to on this thread is the money from the end of his loan deal with us, i.e. end of May until the end of his contract with Norwich, i.e. end of June, because presumably if his loan deal with us ended on 31 May we, HMFC, wouldn't be paying him anything during June but Norwich City will be. His loan deal is 30th June...ends at same time as his Norwich contract. And he’s reporting for pre-season this week...even though he may not sign the permanent contract just yet. https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/latest-hearts-news/hearts-manager-craig-levein-wants-to-add-three-attackers-to-squad-1-4951421 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 57 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: Or putting money on David Vanacek to be the top scorer in the Scottish Premiership over the 2019/20 season? Christ! I’ve already placed that bet. I take it you think I may lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, Morgan said: Christ! I’ve already placed that bet. I take it you think I may lose? His other team may release him in January, he signs for Kilmarnock and then starts banging them in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Inch Hearts said: Especially when there was a loan fee and some wages covered for a player out injured the majority of the season. Players are insured I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Just how big will this thread become when he signs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Morgan said: Just how big will this thread become when he signs? I know something else that will become big that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 minute ago, gjcc said: I know something else that will become big that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Morgan said: Yep, big ol’ grin on my face that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, Morgan said: Just how big will this thread become when he signs? Not much bigger. Negativity breeds mega threads. Positive news, couple of pages and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 minute ago, gjcc said: Yep, big ol’ grin on my face that day. Of course. My smutty mind again. 1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said: Not much bigger. Negativity breeds mega threads. Positive news, couple of pages and move on. You're probably right actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 hour ago, JamboAl said: Players are insured I believe. So Hearts or Norwich paid no wages to Naismith when out injured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 38 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said: Not much bigger. Negativity breeds mega threads. Positive news, couple of pages and move on. At the same time when Vanacek officially left the thread was finished after a few pages. Speculative posts breeds speculation which leads to shit loads of pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said: At the same time when Vanacek officially left the thread was finished after a few pages. Speculative posts breeds speculation which leads to shit loads of pages. Vanacek leaving was a positive. Thread over in a few pages as I said. The Levein out thread has pages and pages and pages left in it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 hour ago, JamboAl said: Players are insured I believe. Do you have any evidence to back this up ? etc etc etc etc........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 12 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said: Why on earth would we pay £150k for a player who has already agreed to sign for free? According to the Evening News he can train with us currently so he will be doing pre-season anyway. I think given the injuries last season it would be prudent to give Berra and Naismith an extended rest during the League Cup group stages. Maybe play Berra against Dundee United and then give Halkett game time for the other three matches. Really good post. The skipper shouldn't be needed against lower league opponents and Halkett is more than capable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 39 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said: So Hearts or Norwich paid no wages to Naismith when out injured? I didn't say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, DH1986 said: Do you have any evidence to back this up ? etc etc etc etc........ No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said: I know, I read the article! Trying to get to the bottom of why we have folk advocating paying a fee for a player we can get for free? Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 6 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said: Have a look at this. He has a contract which expires on 1 July, and that includes the extra month that is being referred to. His loan deal with HMFC expired at the end of May, but under his existing contract if he remains affiliated to Norwich until 1 July he receives the additional 4 weeks payment being referred to at various points on this thread. From 1 July he is unattached to any club and can therefore sign for anyone from that date, without losing the money from Norwich for June. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/steven-naismith/profil/spieler/12763 In my original reply to the poster I did say his contract ended in May, and although I knew what I was saying I accept it doesn't sound that way. The loan deal ended then but to trigger the additional 4 weeks payment he couldn't/cant do anything until 1 July. I’m sure it will become clearer in the next few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 28 minutes ago, JamboAl said: No Didn’t think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 49 minutes ago, JamboAl said: I didn't say that. What did the insurance cover then pal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said: Vanacek leaving was a positive. Thread over in a few pages as I said. The Levein out thread has pages and pages and pages left in it ... Thats because half the support still want Levein to leave? Stuff like Vanacek doesn’t help matters in his favour. Get into pre-season and LC without any hiccups and the thread will bolt. Edited June 22, 2019 by Inch Hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Elwood P Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 29 minutes ago, Inch Hearts said: Thats because half the support still want Levein to leave? Stuff like Vanacek doesn’t help matters in his favour. Get into pre-season and LC without any hiccups and the thread will bolt. That thread will be resurrected every time we lose a game. On that fact, I am ITK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said: That thread will be resurrected every time we lose a game. On that fact, I am ITK! Also when there’s a brilliant positive result. ? it’s not completely one sided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Inch Hearts said: What did the insurance cover then pal? The short answer is that I do not know the details for each club. I had assumed Insurance was a mandatory requirement of the member association as it is in some of the lower leagues but I cannot find anything in the SFA rules to support this view. It seems however that the SFA has to, or did have to, compensate clubs for a player injured on international duty so it it is not a quantum leap to suggest something similar happening with loan deals - although I imagine the loan agreement will cover what happens, and who pays, in the event of a longish term injury. It may even be a player's own responsibility to insure himself. It would be hard to believe that someone like SN would risk going from say £15k per week to a pittance if injured for any length of time. Edited June 22, 2019 by JamboAl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, JamboAl said: The short answer is that I do not know the details for each club. I had assumed Insurance was a mandatory requirement of the member association as it is in some of the lower leagues but I cannot find anything in the SFA rules to support this view. It seems however that the SFA has to, or did have to, compensate clubs for a player injured on international duty so it it is not a quantum leap to suggest something similar happening with loan deals - although I imagine the loan agreement will cover what happens, and who pays, in the event of a longish term injury. It may even be a player's own responsibility to insure himself. It would be hard to believe that someone like SN would risk going from say £15k per week to a pittance if injured for any length of time. So there’s no insurance on players out injured and you’re hoping that hearts didn’t pay the full amount of Naismiths loan wage when the player was out injured the majority of the season? Footballers are indeed insured themselves and they are indeed insured a minimal amount of wages from the football association if injured on international duty. There’s nothing I’ve ever learned that clubs take out insurance incase a player gets injured in general, let alone a player on loan. Mate, I actually like you and know you’re a good hearts fan. You have to have a little more perspective at times and be less of a jammy wearer. Hopefully it will come in time. Stop asking 100s of questions about proving stuff on a football forum too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 7 hours ago, Inch Hearts said: So there’s no insurance on players out injured and you’re hoping that hearts didn’t pay the full amount of Naismiths loan wage when the player was out injured the majority of the season? Footballers are indeed insured themselves and they are indeed insured a minimal amount of wages from the football association if injured on international duty. There’s nothing I’ve ever learned that clubs take out insurance incase a player gets injured in general, let alone a player on loan. Mate, I actually like you and know you’re a good hearts fan. You have to have a little more perspective at times and be less of a jammy wearer. Hopefully it will come in time. Stop asking 100s of questions about proving stuff on a football forum too. I didn't say there's no insurance on players out injured. I said I could not find supporting evidence. As, however, it is not a matter of life and death to me I shall accept what you say meantime. i know you like me. You've made that clear enough by following everything I post. You tell me to stop asking questions. Absolutely no chance when I read half of the drivel posted on here by pant wetters. BTW, is that a question mark at the end of your first sentence. Practise what you preach, my friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 14 hours ago, Pasquale for King said: I’m sure it will become clearer in the next few weeks. You would certainly hope so. Even on links posted on this thread, including one I posted it does show that it isn't easy yet to know exactly what is and will happen. Norwich City are saying the loan deal expired on 31 May, which in itself ties in with something I'd heard when speaking to someone on cup final day, i.e. that Naismith's loan was ending a few days later. But there is a link from the Evening News saying that his loan deal doesn't expire until the end of this month. Given the general opinion is that our best hopes of success tend to be in the cup competitions I'd have preferred if he was available to play for us from Friday 12 July, but we'll have to wait and see if he is going to remain unattached until the beginning of August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said: You would certainly hope so. Even on links posted on this thread, including one I posted it does show that it isn't easy yet to know exactly what is and will happen. Norwich City are saying the loan deal expired on 31 May, which in itself ties in with something I'd heard when speaking to someone on cup final day, i.e. that Naismith's loan was ending a few days later. But there is a link from the Evening News saying that his loan deal doesn't expire until the end of this month. Given the general opinion is that our best hopes of success tend to be in the cup competitions I'd have preferred if he was available to play for us from Friday 12 July, but we'll have to wait and see if he is going to remain unattached until the beginning of August. At a guess I would say the loan deal would expire on 31 May and he would revert to being fully paid by Norwich for the last month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, JamboAl said: At a guess I would say the loan deal would expire on 31 May and he would revert to being fully paid by Norwich for the last month. As I said that was my understanding based on what I had heard and read. I don't know how modern football contracts work in full so my thoughts were that maybe the money he was looking to make sure he got was for the month of June, not July. We're not in July yet so we'll find out reasonably soon if his intention is to effectively stay attached to Norwich until the end of July or not. Although I'd prefer him to be lining up for us from day one I guess it is easy to understand why getting an extra £150k for waiting another 4 weeks is appealing to him, but unfortunately means we have to wait a little longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 hours ago, JamboAl said: I didn't say there's no insurance on players out injured. I said I could not find supporting evidence. As, however, it is not a matter of life and death to me I shall accept what you say meantime. i know you like me. You've made that clear enough by following everything I post. You tell me to stop asking questions. Absolutely no chance when I read half of the drivel posted on here by pant wetters. BTW, is that a question mark at the end of your first sentence. Practise what you preach, my friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionN Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Is Naismith allowed to train with us while he hasn’t officially signed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thought Police Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, SectionN said: Is Naismith allowed to train with us while he hasn’t officially signed? Yes, he still on loan until monday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionN Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Thought Police said: Yes, he still on loan until monday After that I’m assuming he will be allowed as he will be unattached? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inch Hearts Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, SectionN said: After that I’m assuming he will be allowed as he will be unattached? Arthurs seat it is then for a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 I'm pretty sure clubs will be insured for players getting injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie1874 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 48 minutes ago, SectionN said: After that I’m assuming he will be allowed as he will be unattached? Correct. He will be a free agent able to train with anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie wallace Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 How is he is getting on fitness wise.Wjll he be ready for the start of the season. Looking forward to Naismith and Walker partnership banging in the goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.