U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Mysterion]

 

Saw some highlights, read a few reports. I get the impression both achieved what they needed to. 

 

Biden - generally remain composed, have a few digs, let Trump become unhinged. 

 

Trump - turned it into a mess, will demotivate some voters who are fed up of the sh*t whilst appealing to his support to get out and vote. 

 

 

Last night changes little but was a rally cry for Trump voters  and white supremacists to vote. 

[A Boy Named Crow]

8 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

Saw some highlights, read a few reports. I get the impression both achieved what they needed to. 

 

Biden - generally remain composed, have a few digs, let Trump become unhinged. 

 

Trump - turned it into a mess, will demotivate some voters who are fed up of the sh*t whilst appealing to his support to get out and vote. 

 

 

Last night changes little but was a rally cry for Trump voters  and white supremacists to vote. 

I wouldn't say it was necessarily to the ballot box that the white supremacists were being called.  A truly sinister outburst from Trump!

[Cruyff]

Trump will say whatever he wants, that isn't going to affect his approval rating. People that like him, like him, people that don't, hate him. 

 

A few more low blows on Joe though and Trump may claw this back. 

 

Says a lot about Biden when he's only like 5 points up in polls against the worst person, nevermind president, in history. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Cruyff

[Don Dan]

Two things.

Is this the best America has to offer for the role of President 😳

Nobody won that debate last night other than the worlds media. 
 

 

[SectionDJambo]

5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Tweeted during the debate, very close in time to his "Stand back and stand by" remark

 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1311131311965306885

 

Voter suppression in full swing

That is getting uncomfortably close to the attitude that enabled the National Socialist German Workers Party to bully and intimidate voters and grab power in pre war Germany. 

These current day nutters in America have the added advantage of being able to openly carry guns around. Trump creating bogeymen, for them to be seen as protecting the nation from, and they're almost all the way there. They've already got the rallies filled with adoring followers of a man who brings out the worst in the hard of thinking, by scaremongering and ludicrous claims.

Who would have thought that the land of the brave and free, would allow an individual to stir up such a toxic, threatening situation in the run up to a presidential election. 

The Democrats should have the easiest election victory they've ever had. Instead they seem to be failing to emphasise and expose Trump as an unfit person for his current office. Are the traditional Republicans happy to have their party taken over by him?

It could be said it's nothing to do with us here in the UK, but, like it or not, this country and Europe depends on having a sane and capable president to counter Russia. Trump may have NATO on his next list of casualties if he gets back in. That could be job done for Putin, in bringing Russia up from it's knees to be the big threat again.

 

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

Only thing I know of the "Proud Boys" is they wear black shirts,  seems to be a trend of facists.

[redjambo]

57 minutes ago, Mac_fae_Gillie said:

Only thing I know of the "Proud Boys" is they wear black shirts,  seems to be a trend of facists.

 

The Italian fascists wore black in the early 20th century, earning them the nickname "Blackshirts".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackshirts

 

It spread from there.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Mac_fae_Gillie said:

Only thing I know of the "Proud Boys" is they wear black shirts,  seems to be a trend of facists.

Theres a Facist uniform?

 

Sad people 

[Sawdust Caesar]

1 hour ago, Mac_fae_Gillie said:

Only thing I know of the "Proud Boys" is they wear black shirts,  seems to be a trend of facists.

There is an article in today's Metro about Fred Perry withdrawing their black with yellow tipping polo shirts from the USA after the Proud Boys appropriated it. 

[Sharpie]

24 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

The Italian fascists wore black in the early 20th century, earning them the nickname "Blackshirts".

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackshirts

 

It spread from there.

 

During the last election I commented on Trumps behavioral pattern of making a point then turning hands on hips with jaw jutted and absolutely perfect impersonation of Mussolini. Even then I wondered if it was a natural pose or if for some reason he admired the Italian Fascist, he certainly has done his best to emulate him. Mind you Mussolini did not look his best when he was posing by rope on a lampost in death.

[Tazio]

Well it turns out if you tweet about Trump and involve calling him the C word and being punched by Biden it gets you a holiday off Twitter. 

[EH11_2NL]

2 hours ago, Mac_fae_Gillie said:

Only thing I know of the "Proud Boys" is they wear black shirts,  seems to be a trend of facists.

They all wear the black Fred Perry polo shirts and the Fred Perry organisation have openly came out and distanced themselves from these ******s.

[maroonlegions]

[J.T.F.Robertson]

Just now, maroonlegions said:

 

Haha. 

I think.

 

[I P Knightley]

3 hours ago, Sawdust Caesar said:

There is an article in today's Metro about Fred Perry withdrawing their black with yellow tipping polo shirts from the USA after the Proud Boys appropriated it. 

The tennis club where Fred Perry plied his trade, and lived round the corner from, in the 1930s has been running a Fred Perry sponsored tournament each year for the last 2 or 3 years. 

 

They did this to one of their courts: 

 

I wouldn't imagine the old duffers on the committee would be aware of the connection to a right-wing, racist, xenophobic organisation in the US. 

 

And then some punchline about what they might do when they discover the connection. Something about twinning or something. Do I have to do all the work here? 

[JFK-1]

Lot of talk on local radio here about the constant interruption by Trump. As has been suggested here they're debating a moderator mic cut switch.                                                                                                   A common opinion of that is that Trump may just begin yelling or even walk over to Bidens podium and interrup there by getting into his mic.

 

The overall feeling is that the entire spectacle was a farce with the world watching.

[PortyJambo]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

Lot of talk on local radio here about the constant interruption by Trump. As has been suggested here they're debating a moderator mic cut switch.                                                                                                   A common opinion of that is that Trump may just begin yelling or even walk over to Bidens podium and interrup there by getting into his mic.

 

The overall feeling is that the entire spectacle was a farce with the world watching.

 

He'll just go on about how he's being silenced by the media too if they turn his mic off, will play into his (tiny little) hands.

[Cade]

7 minutes ago, PortyJambo said:

 

He'll just go on about how he's being silenced by the media too if they turn his mic off, will play into his (tiny little) hands.

 

[Justin Z]

10 hours ago, Barack said:

This not enough to make you want to vote Biden, mate? 

 

You looked into buying a gun recently you said to me. Well, better you had. Because your Arizona Proud Boy's Chapter, will be happy to oblige that *****. 

 

A sad, sad day. Not so much a dog whistle, but a huge **** off KKK symbol, shone into the night sky.

 

Yeah, it does. Not that voting is how you get a maniacal despot out of power. It's going to take a lot more than people voting, and I genuinely fear thousands are going to be violently killed here in the coming months, now.

 

But it's also worth reiterating, this has nothing to do with Joe Biden. It's purely on Trump being that bad. This isn't some victory for democracy, that a lot of people probably will be voting for Biden now. It's because we see the writing on the wall and want to at least delay full-on fascism as long as possible.

[Justin Z]

2 hours ago, Tazio said:

Well it turns out if you tweet about Trump and involve calling him the C word and being punched by Biden it gets you a holiday off Twitter. 

 

Twitter is complicit in the rise of fascism in the US. So is Facebook.

 

🚮, all of them.

[Justin Z]

10 hours ago, Barack said:

This not enough to make you want to vote Biden, mate?

 

Smashing

 

 

Hoping this is exceedingly rare. Thinking it likely isn't.

[Justin Z]

3 minutes ago, Barack said:

That's the very least I think, dude. Get rid, get some sense of "normality" for 4 years. Keep Trump's kids, Cruz, Pompeo & the likes of Cotton out.

 

Build on some kind of policies. At least try & change the political & social spectrum of America. Vote for a O'Rourke, or Buttigieg, Warren...(just examples as Bernie will be older than Yoda!) and try to blank this period in USA's political history out a bit.

 

O'Rourkes, Buttigieges and Warrens are as much responsible for why we are here as Bannons and Stephen Millers.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

3 hours ago, Tazio said:

Well it turns out if you tweet about Trump and involve calling him the C word and being punched by Biden it gets you a holiday off Twitter. 

I got one for calling Ruth Davidson a lying, fat, c. Everything I said was true.

[Justin Z]

Just now, Barack said:

I give up. Not mentioning any ****er again. 

 

If you want to talk about policy and getting away from what got us here, going with carbon copies of right wing, blue Republicans like Biden is clearly not the solution. I don't understand why that means it's time to give up, and I don't understand what's so difficult or controversial about stating that. Four plus decades of neoliberal bullshit got us here. Why in the world would establishment Democrats who at best pretend to be progressive, and who at worst, don't even do that, be the answer?

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

I've never said they are, J.  Ever. In truth, bar Bernie, I have absolutely no clue as to who represents the Liberal utopian dream you want to believe can be a reality, and that there is one infallible political candidate that aligns solely with your beliefs, mate. 

 

They've all got issues, from Obama, Biden, Harris, O'Rourke, Sanders.

 

I think if you believe there IS such a candidate, you should stay in Arizona and run for local Government and try & affect change that way. We all have to swallow some shit, no matter what political affiliation we've got, mate. Does it make it right? Of course not. But there are times, for the greater good in the future, we take the shit here & now.

 

If the Dems are doing poorly representing the USA (and they have, there's no denying) then it's up to the Liberals to affect that change, by virtue of having more voices within local & national levels. Not clinging onto the ghost of Sanders, like the Corbynistas of the Labour Party.

 

See if a Liberal candidate sticks his or her head above the parapet in the next 4 years...I'll be one of the first to listen to what they've got to say. Until then, every fibre of persons who vote, should be geared towards healing the country and keeping the GOP out of office, and reduced in the Senate.

 

Love you.😘

 

Bottom line, none of these people in the Democratic party are even liberal, much less progressive. Your namesake's enacted policy was to the right of any mainstream, non-ERG Tory.

 

It's a sad indictment of our politics that "running a country that doesn't completely **** over anyone making less than six figures" is now considered "utopian" and it's merely "swallowing some shit" to allow them to continue unabated. To what end and for whose good? Nobody's.

 

Oh well.

[Justin Z]

P.S. I'm effectively convinced electoralism is not the solution, and your post is exactly why. None of that is remotely realistic with what there is. The Democrats have shown they will do absolutely everything in their power to crush any movement slightly right of centre or left, while showing only minimal resistance to the Republicans and Trump (i.e. passing his budgets and giving him even more powers).

 

At best, affecting positive change through the Democratic Party is impossible. At worst, it all needs to be burned down.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

Lot of talk on local radio here about the constant interruption by Trump. As has been suggested here they're debating a moderator mic cut switch.                                                                                                   A common opinion of that is that Trump may just begin yelling or even walk over to Bidens podium and interrup there by getting into his mic.

 

The overall feeling is that the entire spectacle was a farce with the world watching.

 

There was a guy interviewed on Sky News who said similar, he basically said that the whole World watched that, no wonder America is a laughing stock now.

[Pasquale for King]

On 03/09/2020 at 20:20, fancy a brew said:

Always worth a reminder of just how big an imbecile Trump is. My personal favourites are the people behind him at the 56 second mark, who's expression is something like 

 

 

He knows all the words, he’s number 1 in the world at making up new ones too. 

[redjambo]

2 hours ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

Haha. 

I think.

 

 

[Dinger]

i had never heard of the "proud boys" before, but if someone had mentioned them without context i would have assumed it was a gay mens organisation.

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, Dinger said:

i had never heard of the "proud boys" before, but if someone had mentioned them without context i would have assumed it was a gay mens organisation.

 

There will be a number of them who are confused and conflicted, no doubt.

[Norm]

It's a shit state affairs, that's for sure. Justin is right to be furious that his choice is Biden or Trump and I get his frustration when everyone keeps saying he has to vote Biden. 

 

A vote for Biden just encourages more of the same shit state of affairs for the US. Nothing will get better. It'll get worse. Just at a slightly slower rate than it is at the moment. 

 

People say Biden has to be better than Trump. I'm not 100% convinced. Biden getting a result is a big ol' pat on the back for the Dems and as far as they'll see it, a mandate from the electorate to carry on drifting further and further right, pushing the Republicans even further and ending any hope of the US having some semblance of a normal functioning nation. 

 

Whereas 4 more years of Trump? Next time, maybe, just maybe, they might have to offer up something truly different that could properly change the country for the good. 

[Justin Z]

Thanks @Normthebarman. And we have recent history to inform us on this too.

 

Barack Obama ran a progressive campaign to get regular people in need, who dreamed of change "we could believe in", on board. Then he failed to prosecute a single shyster responsible for the 2008 financial meltdown, ramped up the US drone program, violently killing thousands of brown men, women and children in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc., and implemented economic policy like the Affordable Care Act, a boon to health insurance companies and private medical providers, and which was collectively to the right of any modern, mainstream, non-ERG Tory in Britain.

 

Because all this shit helped absolutely no one in need, Republicans spent eight years crowing about how these "socialist, commie Muslim policies" didn't work. Even though they're neoliberal, and exactly what they and their corporate backers want, that doesn't matter to them and never has. When they only benefited the rich, it was a political opportunity for them to crow that only they cared about the American people. Trump seized on all of this and using populism, built a cult of personality that now threatens to tear the country apart at the seams.

 

If Biden wins and the 2008-2016 process repeats, what will 2024 bring? T̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶  ****er Carlson? Collectively the talking points will be even farther right. That's if there's even a functioning electoral system, government and democracy left—and there might already not be.

[Beni]

2 hours ago, Dinger said:

i had never heard of the "proud boys" before, but if someone had mentioned them without context i would have assumed it was a gay mens organisation.

 

2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

There will be a number of them who are confused and conflicted, no doubt.

 

They do seem to have a rather strange interest in the personal habits of their members. 😉

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Unreal that you’ve got a massive nonce like Trump and the best opponent the Democrats can find is Biden. Honest to god. Like fighting the devil with some wet cardboard.

[Carl Fredrickson]

45 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

 

They do seem to have a rather strange interest in the personal habits of their members. 😉

 

 

 

Well Level 3 means I cant join - on both counts. 

[A Boy Named Crow]

They're reporting on the radio this morning  that there will be new rules for the rest of the debates.

 

Seems weird that they only realised Trump might need "special measures" the day AFTER the first debate!

[Justin Z]

Cool.

 

[Justin Z]

I mean, if they don't need my vote 🤷‍♂️

 

 

@redjambo this is the other general "voter outreach" effort I see from "Vote Blue No Matter Who" / Biden supporters: condescending to Bernie supporters and telling them they're not needed. They do this when they're not busy shaming people for daring to argue that a politician should have to earn your vote rather than play on fear of the other guy.

 

This worked out for them excellently in 2016 which is why they're repeating it, obviously. With Biden leading the way as per the post above this one.

[JFK-1]

Trump Could Be More Than $1 Billion in Debt

 

 

 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

8 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Trump Could Be More Than $1 Billion in Debt

 

 

 

 

Kickback "Go Fund Me"?

 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

6 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

There will be a number of them who are confused and conflicted, no doubt.

I would imagine their Afro-Cuban president must be the most confused and conflicted.
Just saying...

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

I would imagine their Afro-Cuban president must be the most confused and conflicted.
Just saying...

 

I know someone a lot like him (and he's the chairman of the Florida chapter, not the president). Indian guy, born in Kerala, came to the US many decades ago, got citizenship, is dyed-in-the-wool racist and ultra-nationalist and it's sad.

 

People like this are the sort of useful folk movements like these need—and it's why Trump makes sure to put them front and centre in his rallies, especially so dullards can point and say "Look, the entire movement can't be racist, there's a [fill-in-the-blank] person."

 

Logically it only follows that the presence of Black and Jewish people in the German army in the 30s and 40s meant the Nazis weren't white nationalist, after all.

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, Normthebarman said:

It's a shit state affairs, that's for sure. Justin is right to be furious that his choice is Biden or Trump and I get his frustration when everyone keeps saying he has to vote Biden. 

 

A vote for Biden just encourages more of the same shit state of affairs for the US. Nothing will get better. It'll get worse. Just at a slightly slower rate than it is at the moment. 

 

People say Biden has to be better than Trump. I'm not 100% convinced. Biden getting a result is a big ol' pat on the back for the Dems and as far as they'll see it, a mandate from the electorate to carry on drifting further and further right, pushing the Republicans even further and ending any hope of the US having some semblance of a normal functioning nation. 

 

Whereas 4 more years of Trump? Next time, maybe, just maybe, they might have to offer up something truly different that could properly change the country for the good. 

If Trump wins, there won't be a next time. It'll become a family business. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

12 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

They're reporting on the radio this morning  that there will be new rules for the rest of the debates.

 

Seems weird that they only realised Trump might need "special measures" the day AFTER the first debate!

 

Both of them need special measures. 

[Lovecraft]

7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

If Trump wins, there won't be a next time. It'll become a family business. 

100%

 

 

[Lovecraft]

12 hours ago, Justin Z said:

I mean, if they don't need my vote 🤷‍♂️

 

 

@redjambo this is the other general "voter outreach" effort I see from "Vote Blue No Matter Who" / Biden supporters: condescending to Bernie supporters and telling them they're not needed. They do this when they're not busy shaming people for daring to argue that a politician should have to earn your vote rather than play on fear of the other guy.

 

This worked out for them excellently in 2016 which is why they're repeating it, obviously. With Biden leading the way as per the post above this one.

 Who is this Elizabeth Logan person?

 

Is she the person now running Biden's campaign?

 

 

[JFK-1]

Quote

The Guardian described it as a "national humiliation".

 

"The rest of the world - and future historians - will presumably look at it and weep," the paper wrote, adding that Mr Biden was the only man who looked "remotely presidential" on the stage and saying that if Mr Trump was re-elected in November, "this dark, horrifying, unwatchable fever dream will surely be the first line of America's obituary."

 

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

 Who is this Elizabeth Logan person?

 

Is she the person now running Biden's campaign?

 

No no, sorry, she's just a random person on Twitter. The point I was making about her is that she's typical of people supporting Biden who criticise people who don't because he doesn't actually give them anything politically. I'd just come across it and it reminded me of redjambo and my discussion the other day.

 

Even during the debate Biden had a swipe at Bernie Sanders. He's said he doesn't need the left many times. And ultimately, it's either going to that he didn't, or it will be our fault when he loses. Just as in 2016, they always want it both ways.

[Justin Z]