U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[JFK-1]

9 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

He's said he doesn't need the left many times. And ultimately, it's either going to that he didn't, or it will be our fault when he loses. Just as in 2016, they always want it both ways.

 

In this instance I can't tell if that's an actual policy or simply a tactical statement to get Trump to STF about "the far left". Americans don't even know what socialism is, say socialism they think commie.

Seen perfect examples of it at republican rallies. Placards saying "keep your government hands off my medicaid"

Where in their fantasy world do they think medicaid comes from? The medicaid fairy? 

[I P Knightley]

19 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

O'Rourkes, Buttigieges and Warrens are as much responsible for why we are here as Bannons and Stephen Millers.

 

19 hours ago, Barack said:

I give up. Not mentioning any ****er again. 

 

Justin - I like your posts a lot but recently, I'm picturing you a bit differently to the windswept Arizonan hunk in the byline of that article you shared: 

 

 

(Perfectly understandable and justified, by the way.)

 

16 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

 

 

They do seem to have a rather strange interest in the personal habits of their members. 😉

 

 

Who polices the first clause of Level 3? Do they get an extra one in a leap year?

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, JFK-1 said:

Seen perfect examples of it at republican rallies. Placards saying "keep your government hands off my medicaid"

Where in their fantasy world do they think medicaid comes from? The medicaid fairy? 

 

Yes, or the folks I've seen interviewed who were "against Obamacare" but were "in favour of the Medicaid expansion", or even worse, "the ACA", the other name for Obamacare.

 

It's comical but also really sad. Decades of neither party prioritising education, but especially not Republicans, and of course things like this are commonplace.

[Justin Z]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

 

 

Justin - I like your posts a lot but recently, I'm picturing you a bit differently to the windswept Arizonan hunk in the byline of that article you shared: 

 

 

(Perfectly understandable and justified, by the way.)

 

Mate

 

Haha but no, it's going on seven months I've been stuck here. Eeyore definitely fits!

[Maple Leaf]

2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Several years ago I was working in Raleigh and got chatting about the U.S. Civil War over lunch with a local.

 

He referred to it as "The War of Northern Aggression."  He said that it couldn't have been a civil war as two separate countries were involved.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

29 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Several years ago I was working in Raleigh and got chatting about the U.S. Civil War over lunch with a local.

 

He referred to it as "The War of Northern Aggression."  He said that it couldn't have been a civil war as two separate countries were involved.

 

Did you leave your lunch or get a doggie bag before you up and left?

 

[Auldbenches]

2 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

 

 

Justin - I like your posts a lot but recently, I'm picturing you a bit differently to the windswept Arizonan hunk in the byline of that article you shared: 

 

 

(Perfectly understandable and justified, by the way.)

 

Who polices the first clause of Level 3? Do they get an extra one in a leap year?

These boys are traditional Americans so probably cornflakes under the mattress...

[Maple Leaf]

4 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

Did you leave your lunch or get a doggie bag before you up and left?

 

 Nah Jim, I played it cool.

 

That's the day I realised that bitterness still lingers in the South, even 130 years later. 

 

Another time I was in Austin Texas, and told a guy that, to outsiders, all Americans are referred to as Yanks or Yankees.  He got really pissed off and snarled, "I'm no ****ing Yankee!"  Alright, then!

[PortyJambo]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

In this instance I can't tell if that's an actual policy or simply a tactical statement to get Trump to STF about "the far left". Americans don't even know what socialism is, say socialism they think commie. 

 

I had that conversation a few years ago (pre-Trump) with a couple of American interns who were working at the Scottish Parliament that we had up for dinner, and who were Republicans. I explained what we would describe as socialism, and they listened and agreed it all sounded perfectly reasonable and not what they thought of as socialism. They're just conditioned to see socialism as the same as communism.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

8 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 Nah Jim, I played it cool.

 

That's the day I realised that bitterness still lingers in the South, even 130 years later. 

 

Another time I was in Austin Texas, and told a guy that, to outsiders, all Americans are referred to as Yanks or Yankees.  He got really pissed off and snarled, "I'm no ****ing Yankee!"  Alright, then!

 

130 years is chicken feed, we've got 700+ going for us. 

 

[Sharpie]

In my extended time of living with southern Americans, cries after a few beers of The South Shall Rise Again were quite regular.

[Justin Z]

 

Amen and "The South shall rise again" of course

[Tazio]

53 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 Nah Jim, I played it cool.

 

That's the day I realised that bitterness still lingers in the South, even 130 years later. 

 

Another time I was in Austin Texas, and told a guy that, to outsiders, all Americans are referred to as Yanks or Yankees.  He got really pissed off and snarled, "I'm no ****ing Yankee!"  Alright, then!

Some Texans count themselves as Texan first and American second. 

[Maple Leaf]

[JFK-1]

I have been told that the civil war wasn't about slavery, it was about 'states rights'. Thing is if they actually dug just a little deeper into that it was about states right to take their slavery into newly opened territories. Which Lincoln was blocking.

[Clear few]

On 30/09/2020 at 17:45, Justin Z said:

 

Yeah, it does. Not that voting is how you get a maniacal despot out of power. It's going to take a lot more than people voting, and I genuinely fear thousands are going to be violently killed here in the coming months, now.

 

But it's also worth reiterating, this has nothing to do with Joe Biden. It's purely on Trump being that bad. This isn't some victory for democracy, that a lot of people probably will be voting for Biden now. It's because we see the writing on the wall and want to at least delay full-on fascism as long as possible.

Spot on Justin Z 👍
Anyone looking for an intelligent and sobering analysis of Trump and the dangers of the upcoming election listen to this.....

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/common-sense-with-dan-carlin/id155974141?i=1000491914022
 

Does some excellent historical podcast as well, highly recommended.

[JFK-1]

There is no running back Trumps dog whistling to the far right. They have taken it on board and thousands will be chomping at the bit to show how 'patriotic' they are. They will be competing with each other to be the most 'patriotic'

You can translate patriotic as rabidly extreme.

[Justin Z]

21 minutes ago, Clear few said:

Spot on Justin Z 👍
Anyone looking for an intelligent and sobering analysis of Trump and the dangers of the upcoming election listen to this.....

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/common-sense-with-dan-carlin/id155974141?i=1000491914022
 

Does some excellent historical podcast as well, highly recommended.

 

Cheers for this! May I also recommend the It Could Happen Here podcast. Think you would enjoy it very much.

[Clear few]

3 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Cheers for this! May I also recommend the It Could Happen Here podcast. Think you would enjoy it very much.

Many thanks I’ll listen to it while working tomorrow 🙏

[JFK-1]

 

[trotter]

2 hours ago, Tazio said:

Some Texans count themselves as Texan first and American second. 

The vast majority that I know do. 

[Justin Z]

8 minutes ago, trotter said:

The vast majority that I know do. 

 

In Steinbeck's 1962 book Travels With Charley, a journal of the trip he took around the US, he wrote this about his experiences in Texas:

 

I've studied the Texas problem from many angles and for many years. Outside their state I think Texans are a little frightened and very tender in their feelings, and these qualities cause boasting, arrogance, and noisy complacency – the outlets of shy children. At home Texans are none of these things.

. . .

We have heard them threaten to secede so often that I formed an enthusiastic organization – The American Friends for Texas Secession. This stops the subject cold. They want to be able to secede but they don't want anyone to want them to.

 

 

Edited to add: @J.T.F.Robertson take note!

Edited October 1, 2020 by Justin Z

[JFK-1]

So they're like the street fighter taking his jacket off while encouraging everyone to hold him back.

[Beni]

It's through the looking glass stuff here, with Goebbels Barbie refusing to answer a question, then criticising journalists for not asking questions about that very thing.

 

 

[Justin Z]

Some insight into why Arizona was for several days the per-capita Covid case centre of the world, and the racists behind it all. This is Republican politics in Arizona, and it will be like this in many states across the country:

 

How a group that began by sharing racist memes, violent fantasies on Facebook became a force in Arizona politics

 

As pressure began to build against Arizona’s COVID-19 stay-at-home orders, 500 people rallied at the state Capitol and stormed the lobby of the building where the Governor’s Office is housed. Some carried weapons and many had ties to the so-called Patriot movement.

. . .

[Governor] Ducey had vowed to act only in the interest of public health. But despite no discernible turn in the state’s COVID-19 statistics, he unwound many of his orders. That set the state on a course that would see cases and deaths from the disease skyrocket for months and by July catapult Arizona to worst-in-the-nation status for cases of COVID-19 per-capita.

. . .

In the members-only Facebook group, Muslims were frequently insulted as terrorists and "towelheads," and crudely demeaned with false descriptions of sex acts. A Muslim woman running for U.S. Senate was labeled a "Subhuman bitch" who should be hanged. And members sometimes fantasized about watching illegal immigrants starve to death and fighting a civil war with liberals.

. . .

While Arizonans are familiar with those episodes, few outside the group understand its influence on Republican leaders and its role as a party-aligned attack dog. 

. . .

The Republic found at least nine members of the closed Patriot Facebook group have held official leadership positions within the Arizona Republican Party. And more than 30 members have become GOP precinct committeemen — the party’s foot soldiers and recruiters — with designs on expanding their influence there.

[JFK-1]

50 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

500 people rallied at the state Capitol and stormed the lobby of the building where the Governor’s Office is housed. Some carried weapons

 

That's really backward shit and it's not the only state capitol this happened in. Can you imagine any other major Western country tolerating a political building invaded by disruptive aggressive "protestors" carrying assault rifles? Think of that in the Scottish parliament building.

[Bindy Badgy]

20 hours ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

I would imagine their Afro-Cuban president must be the most confused and conflicted.
Just saying...

 

As confused as this roaster.

[JFK-1]

Voter suppression begins in Texas. And on top of this we will likely see "Trumps army" staking out the polling locations left available. And I wouldn't be surprised if one of the objectives in limiting polling locations is to make it easier to stake them out and intimidate people.

Texas governor cuts back on voting locations
 

Quote

Texas' governor has ordered that voters can drop off their mail-in ballots at only one location per county in the lead-up to the presidential election. Republican Governor Greg Abbott said the move would stop illegal voting.
 

Critics have accused Mr Abbott of voter suppression, pointing out that in some cases this means thousands of voters must go to one clerk's office.

FULL ARTICLE

[Mysterion]

3 hours ago, fancy a brew said:

It's through the looking glass stuff here, with Goebbels Barbie refusing to answer a question, then criticising journalists for not asking questions about that very thing.

 

 

 

I'm no fan of her - but she is doing a tremendous job of deflecting and pushing back. That was some high level whatabouterry. 

[A Boy Named Crow]

12 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Both of them need special measures. 

I have no dog in this fight,  but it did seem Trump was the problem. Biden reacted to Trump's behaviour, didn't stoop all the way to Trump's level though. 

[JFK-1]

39 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

I'm no fan of her - but she is doing a tremendous job of deflecting and pushing back. That was some high level whatabouterry. 

 

Personally I'm finding myself distinctly unimpressed. In my view impressive would be projecting plausible believability. She comes across as nothing but evasive and deceitful. If this were a trial she would be labelled an unreliable witness.

[JFK-1]

Nevada Attorney General Aaron Ford clarifies that Donald Trump's suggestion that his supporters go to polls to "observe" is illegal and will get them arrested.
 

 

[JFK-1]

MA Attorney General on Threats of Voter Suppression

 

 

 

[JFK-1]

It would appear I'm not the only who thinks McEnany is evasive and deceitful, a Fox news correspondent no less seems to think the same thing. I wonder if Fox are going to begin going through a process of trying to detach from Trump. A difficult thing to do after the past 4 years of fawning over him.

But what are they going to look like if he loses this election. Then an avalanche of not just incompetence but actual criminality and even treason is uncovered when he has no further power to hinder investigations.
 

 

[I P Knightley]

One of his close aides has tested positive for covid. She sat close to him, most likely without a mask, on recent trips on Marine One. Could be an interesting few days watching and waiting. 🤞

[A Boy Named Crow]

3 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

One of his close aides has tested positive for covid. She sat close to him, most likely without a mask, on recent trips on Marine One. Could be an interesting few days watching and waiting. 🤞

Genuinely not wishing him harm,  but is there a procedure for this in their constitution? If Trump was incapacitated before the election,  would Pence be the candidate?

[JFK-1]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

One of his close aides has tested positive for covid. She sat close to him, most likely without a mask, on recent trips on Marine One. Could be an interesting few days watching and waiting. 🤞

 

No chance of Trump getting it, he's been taking hydroxychloroquine. Or so he said and also said it prevents infection. So he's sorted.

Doctors said it might give you a heart attack. But what do they know? Trump knows more about everything than anybody else knows about anything.

[Sharpie]

12 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Genuinely not wishing him harm,  but is there a procedure for this in their constitution? If Trump was incapacitated before the election,  would Pence be the candidate?

 

Reporters finding it strange that there is little information when Miss Hicks diagnosis was made, some suspect she and they knew she had Covid when they went on a helicopter last night. Trump would have been directly exposed to her germs. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Sharpie

[I P Knightley]

12 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Genuinely not wishing him harm,  but is there a procedure for this in their constitution? If Trump was incapacitated before the election,  would Pence be the candidate?

I was wondering the same.

 

And it's against forum rules to wish harm on anyone else so I don't wish any harm, illness or incapacitation (however permanent) on Donald J (for Jenius) Trump. None at all.

[I P Knightley]

4 minutes ago, Sharpie said:

 

Reporters finding it strange that there is little information when Miss Hicks diagnosis was made, some suspect she and they knew she had Covid when they went on a helicopter last night. Trump would have been directly exposed to her germs. 

I bet it wasn't just her germs he wanted to have exposed, though. Eh, eh? Nod's as good as a wink. Nudge, nudge.

 

Seriously, I can't imagine that people around him would let her travel with him knowing she had the virus. Unless they're hoping for the worst; which would restore a tiny amount of faith in their system.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

I bet it wasn't just her germs he wanted to have exposed, though. Eh, eh? Nod's as good as a wink. Nudge, nudge.

 

Seriously, I can't imagine that people around him would let her travel with him knowing she had the virus. Unless they're hoping for the worst; which would restore a tiny amount of faith in their system.

 

I think they all know he's a disaster in process and even bigger disaster waiting to happen. They just can't come out and say it this late in the day after all their fawning.

[A Boy Named Crow]

Just now, I P Knightley said:

I bet it wasn't just her germs he wanted to have exposed, though. Eh, eh? Nod's as good as a wink. Nudge, nudge.

 

Seriously, I can't imagine that people around him would let her travel with him knowing she had the virus. Unless they're hoping for the worst; which would restore a tiny amount of faith in their system.

Would have to set the standard for slow motion assassination attempts if true! Maybe a chef who was trying to do him in with a high cholesterol diet would top that, but we'll probably never know. 

[JFK-1]

Love this guys analyses of Trump. He's always hilarious.
 

 

[JFK-1]

'Evil': Three Ex-Trump Aides Join To Oust Trump After Debate Debacle

These guys say among other things that Trump is terrified of losing because the law will be gunning for him. 
 

 

[A Boy Named Crow]

28 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

'Evil': Three Ex-Trump Aides Join To Oust Trump After Debate Debacle

These guys say among other things that Trump is terrified of losing because the law will be gunning for him. 
 

 

I watch videos like this and it astounds me that he still has a viable base. I suppose the question is,  who's watching though? Is this a bit like only getting info about the popularity and viability Scottish independence from the We Are The 45 page on Facebook?

 

I assume there are videos from the other side,  labelling Biden a Commie, Left Wing Liberal Pinko and the like. Now I'm not saying they are equal in truth, but there must be a lot of other media out there that's keeping him in the race. Just because we see stuff like this, and think right on, doesn't mean there's not more people out there buying the other story. 

 

I have a nagging fear we'll have four more years of this. 

[Don Dan]

https://apple.news/AyqNtj35NSp-XhaDvGx5H6g
 

[JFK-1]

58 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

I assume there are videos from the other side,  labelling Biden a Commie, Left Wing Liberal Pinko and the like.

 

Outside Fox there's nothing on mainstream TV news that would speak like that of Biden. And Fox has an extremely poor fact check record.

If you want to go outside the mainstream there's a million right wing wackos you can turn to. Like Alex Jones as an example.

The left have nothing like Jones or his ilk. And if you don't know anything about Jones let me just give you some info from the media bias/fact check site. First factual reporting.



Ans an assessment.

CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE
 

Quote

Overall, InfoWars/Alex Jones is a crackpot, tin foil hat level conspiracy website that also strongly promotes pseudoscience. The amount of fake news and debunked conspiracy claims, as well as extreme right wing bias, renders InfoWars a non-credible source on any level. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/infowars-alex-jones/

 

But there are people who will still listen to such mindless insanity. And believe it. There's a guy who posts right here on this thread who I have been told has actually quoted Jones despite that assessment. 

Then there are people who want to believe what they want to believe no matter what the reality is. So they do, they believe what they want to believe, never question it. Never allow reality into the bubble. 

And there are others who support Trump who do not believe what he says. They simply don't care that it's untrue. They want the dystopian, racist, authoritarian regime he would inflict given the chance. 

[A Boy Named Crow]

8 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Outside Fox there's nothing on mainstream TV news that would speak like that of Biden. And Fox has an extremely poor fact check record.

If you want to go outside the mainstream there's a million right wing wackos you can turn to. Like Alex Jones as an example.

The left have nothing like Jones or his ilk. And if you don't know anything about Jones let me just give you some info from the media bias/fact check site. First factual reporting.



Ans an assessment.

CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE
 

 

But there are people who will still listen to such mindless insanity. And believe it. There's a guy who posts right here on this thread who I have been told has actually quoted Jones despite that assessment. 

Then there are people who want to believe what they want to believe no matter what the reality is. So they do, they believe what they want to believe, never question it. Never allow reality into the bubble. 

And there are others who support Trump who do not believe what he says. They simply don't care that it's untrue. They want the dystopian, racist, authoritarian regime he would inflict given the chance. 

Aye, my point was there will be others out there,  willing to believe that kind of stuff. 

 

I'm just fairly disillusioned with democracy these days. You look at how easily led people are, why do we think allowing people to vote when they can't / won't vote based on objective reality is a good idea? Probably for another thread...

[Sharpie]

Trump in quarantine, awaiting results of tests, due to the circumstances Ms Hicks travelling with his entourage, and does spend time close to Trump on business in the White House. It will really be something if the Pandemic he has been so cavalier about stunts any chance he mav have had left of winning.

[JFK-1]

Just now, Sharpie said:

Trump in quarantine, awaiting results of tests, due to the circumstances Ms Hicks travelling with his entourage, and does spend time close to Trump on business in the White House. It will really be something if the Pandemic he has been so cavalier about stunts any chance he mav have had left of winning.

 

As soon as I heard of this some hours ago I began to wonder if it might be a stunt to get Trump out of the next debate. Now I know they're pretending he did a great job. But really they know as the whole world knows he was a disaster.

He will look even worse if these new rules being speculated are implemented. Mic cut off allowing Biden to speak would see Biden present a clear and cogent policy plan.

Trump has no policy to speak of and even if there were he couldn't present it coherently.