U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[El Salvador]

What? No mention of Obama banning Iraqi refugees in 2011?! Thought not.

[Space Mackerel]

Despite Trump's presidency, the world keeps turning and it would be mad for the UK to distance itself from the USA which may cause longer term damage than merely Trump's 4 years.

Oh, and the Scotland you hold so dearly has one million dulled right wing uneducated occupants in residence.

I'm sure there's 3 million more people in the US wanting Maggie May to take a stronger stance. Or does that not count?

[El Salvador]

'Tory MP Nadhim Zahawi has said the executive order from President Trump bans him from the US and makes him feel discriminated against for the first time since he was a child.

 

Speaking on the Andrew Marr show, he described the policy as "cruel" - and said he hoped Mr Trump would change his mind.'

 

 

Still doesn't impact on the UK so it's all right by some on here..............at what point will they admit many of his policies impact on the world and not just the USA and when they do we should say so or should we according to some simply roll over and have our tummies stroked

 

Yes, let's protest about President Trump not allowing people into his country by.....not letting him into theirs.

[Space Mackerel]

Yes, let's protest about President Trump not allowing people into his country by.....not letting him into theirs.

It would be funny though. Shoe on other foot.

[El Salvador]

It would be funny though. Shoe on other foot.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a **** about a bunch of leftwing arseholes protesting against him.

[Nookie Bear]

I'm sure there's 3 million more people in the US wanting Maggie May to take a stronger stance. Or does that not count?

Wha would the "stronger stance" be, for example?

 

May is representing the UK so here concern is U.K. Business and it's nationals, not the greater US public.

[aussieh]

Despite Trump's presidency, the world keeps turning and it would be mad for the UK to distance itself from the USA which may cause longer term damage than merely Trump's 4 years.

 

Oh, and the Scotland you hold so dearly has one million dulled right wing uneducated occupants in residence.

Aye, we've a few non Scots.

[XB52]

perhaps Farah should check and see whether he is impacted and whether he is actually banned before opening his mouth and trying to stir up media attention. He is a British citizen and doesn't hold a Soamlian passport. Has anyone told him he is banned? Nope, don't think they have. It is the responsibility of the individual to check on their status and pretty sure that Mo, man of the people, will have some lucky employed to do that for him whilst he counts the money he earns.

As an aside, perhaps the fact that Farah actually lives in the US and not in the UK partly explains why, despite his success in athletics, the majority of the British people don't actually like him.

wow, never heard that one before. Always thought Mo was very much liked loved but the vast majority in the UK. Of course I mean the majority of non racists

[Space Mackerel]

I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a **** about a bunch of leftwing arseholes protesting against him.

Maybe he should be paying attention to Mayor of Chicago then given his recent statement?

[El Salvador]

wow, never heard that one before. Always thought Mo was very much liked loved but the vast majority in the UK. Of course I mean the majority of non racists

So if you don't like a person and they happen to be non white then you're a racist?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

he may and if he does, then the UK will deal with it. You know of course, that he won't and has no intention of doing so. Perhaps leave the countries actually impacted by the policy to deal with the issues it has thrown up as it is their citizens who have been banned and it is up to their governments to deal with the matter.

Except it impacts dual nationals as well. That's the point.

[Nookie Bear]

wow, never heard that one before. Always thought Mo was very much liked loved but the vast majority in the UK. Of course I mean the majority of non racists

He is talking nonsense.

 

Farah moved to the US to work with Alberto Salazar, with the blessing of UK athletics. Also, any fan of Uk sport appreciates And supports Mo but, as you say, he is always going to have detractors amongst some people...

[Peebo]

What? No mention of Obama banning Iraqi refugees in 2011?! Thought not.

He didn't ban them. He ordered that refugee applications should not be processed for a six month period. He did it after two Iraqi refugees were discovered to be Al-Qaeda members.

 

Slightly different consequences to what Trump has ordered, regardless of the intention.

[aussieh]

He is talking nonsense.

 

Farah moved to the US to work with Alberto Salazar, with the blessing of UK athletics. Also, any fan of Uk sport appreciates And supports Mo but, as you say, he is always going to have detractors amongst some people...

I went right off him, big head and will soon be found out why he became the best.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Mo Farah like every other dual national will be fine after 90 days. Inconvenient and they should have prob not listed duals but its not like he's from a really 'evil' country like Israel where travel dilemmas are a birth right.

 

Secondly, the upper limit on refugees from these war zones will stay roughly the same 50k as it has been for the past decade in 120 days time when the vetting assessment period lapses.

 

On the plus side the definition of a refugee must take into account religious persecution yet America and have managed to take 95% sunni Muslim of the 1000 plus Syrian refugees to date and the media has been complicit ignoring the actual genocide of Christians and yazidis. Trump should be acknowledged for addressing this upside down logic.

 

Lastly, if the bbc et all actually did some basic journalism instead of gauging the feelsies level of celebs and Hamas funding pressure groups, then a sensible discussion could be had. Until then, the terror threat level will remain very real from immigrants to the country as it has for fifteen years and the two bit journos and outrage mob can thank the big bad oppressive western security apparatus for keeping them in blissful ignorance about its scale.

 

http://dailysignal.com/2015/09/10/a-timeline-of-73-islamist-terror-plots-since-911/

That's funny. I could have sworn the shoe bomber, the 7/7 bombers et al were all British born. My mistake

 

KEEP THE EVIL MUSLAMICS OUT!!

Edited January 29, 2017 by Geoff Kilpatrick

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

He didn't ban them. He ordered that refugee applications should not be processed for a six month period. He did it after two Iraqi refugees were discovered to be Al-Qaeda members.

 

Slightly different consequences to what Trump has ordered, regardless of the intention.

Quite. Still, if you believe everything you read on Twitter...

[Nookie Bear]

I went right off him, big head and will soon be found out why he became the best.

I think he has an arrogance that comes from being he best in the world and a generous media profile.

 

But I'll take him on face value and see a brilliantly committed athlete and a family guy.

 

He can ditch the Mobot pish though!

[elvoys]

That's funny. I could have sworn the shoe bomber, the 7/7 bombers et al were all British born. My mistake

 

KEEP THE EVIL MUSLAMICS OUT!!

Little clue chum... there's a few more than Rich Reid on that US list posted at the bottom. Dunno why you mentioned London. Suprised angry xenaphobe parodies still get traction as people get mangled under lorries. Each to their own.

[elvoys]

He didn't ban them. He ordered that refugee applications should not be processed for a six month period. He did it after two Iraqi refugees were discovered to be Al-Qaeda members.

 

Slightly different consequences to what Trump has ordered, regardless of the intention.

Yes, this was before he opened the Iraq floodgate and the IS spread. If anything, Trump has the higher level of threat to deal with.

[Ulysses]

sorry, I was trying to answer based on my own knowledge and not just look up the Internet. I don't know the MP concerned, but again, if it is just his feelings that have been hurt, pretty sure he will get over it. Why doesn't he apply for entry to the US and see if he is allowed in. Presume he doesn't want to try in case he is allowed in and then the story isn't as dramatic.

 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

He didn't ban them. He ordered that refugee applications should not be processed for a six month period. He did it after two Iraqi refugees were discovered to be Al-Qaeda members.

 

Slightly different consequences to what Trump has ordered, regardless of the intention.

It's not even the point anyway. It's the sign of a lost argument when someone resorts to deflection.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Little clue chum... there's a few more than Rich Reid on that US list posted at the bottom. Dunno why you mentioned London. Suprised angry xenaphobe parodies still get traction as people get mangled under lorries. Each to their own.

Indeed, each to their own. I'll quite happily take a different view from your Islamophobic one. Still, I do admire your ability not to cross the line.

[Francis Albert]

whens the referendum ? Hurry up and get on with it..

so you couldn'the find a leader of any of the 27 nations?

[niblick1874]

I'm going to try this.https://www.facebook.com/475549362567960/videos/1102401636549393/

 

The MSM?

Edited January 29, 2017 by niblick1874

[Francis Albert]

so you couldn'the find a leader of any of the 27 nations?

sorry that was of course meant to be a reply to space mackerel and his claim that 27 EU nations are gagging for Scotland to join.

[niblick1874]

I'm going to try this.https://www.facebook.com/475549362567960/videos/1102401636549393/

 

The MSM?

Sorry, I'd like to add to this.

 

All the repeating of the twisted reality portrayed by the MSM on here about this has been interesting to watch. Being taken in by sleight of hand is one thing, but this?

Edited January 29, 2017 by niblick1874

[elvoys]

Indeed, each to their own. I'll quite happily take a different view from your Islamophobic one. Still, I do admire your ability not to cross the line.

Islamophobia - " a term coined by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate idiots" - C Hitchens

 

P.S please advise where this 'line' of criticism is that one must avoid crossing when dealing with an ideology that mandates death to apostates. Wouldn't want to offend of course. Couldn't have that. Dead cartoonists, burning buildings and what not.

Edited January 29, 2017 by elvoys

[Malinga the Swinga]

wow, never heard that one before. Always thought Mo was very much liked loved but the vast majority in the UK. Of course I mean the majority of non racists

mconsidering the number of golds that Farah has won, he has never, or at least I don't think he has, been placed in hhe top 3 of Sports Personality fo the year.mwhen you see who has won and who has been placed, his unpopularity and arrogance is the one thing that stops him getting anywhere. Not liking him doesn't make anyone a racist. I don't particularly like him but I have no problem in celebrity non white appreciation ( is that even a thing). it isn't his colour I don't like, it is his persona.

 

PhD, I see it has now been confirmed that Farah will face no issue at all in the US, so he was in fact bleating his mouth off with no reason. He still isn't happy but there you go, pretty sure Trump won't care.

 

See that other celebs such as Rhianna, Miley Cyrus,mJohn Legend and others are complaining but again, their status as celebrities doesn't give them any more, or any less, right to complain than any other US citizen.

 

I don't like Trump, I wouldn't want him in charge here, I don't like his attitude to women but I am not a citizen of the US and I didn't have a vote, so it doesn't worry me. I also don't like Hilary C and wouldn't want her in charge here just in case anyone thinks that is reason.

[niblick1874]

Are the lobbyists a part of the swamp?

 

 

What did he just go and do. What was that thing he just signed about lobbyists? Will the MSM tell us that he is getting rid of a very important part of the checks and balances? Will they tell us it won't work or that he's a dictator? One way or another it will have nothing to do with him addressing something that he was voted in to do.

 

.

[Space Mackerel]

This will go over a few posters heads but at least it's worth a go.

 

[heartsfc_fan]

.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Islamophobia - " a term coined by fascists, used by cowards, to manipulate idiots" - C Hitchens

 

P.S please advise where this 'line' of criticism is that one must avoid crossing when dealing with an ideology that mandates death to apostates. Wouldn't want to offend of course. Couldn't have that. Dead cartoonists, burning buildings and what not.

Death to apostates is as relevant to most Muslims as the Spanish Inquisition is to targeting the heretics who left the Church of Rome. Still, if you want to believe that your Muslim neighbour wants to enslave you in a caliphate, you bash on. He or she will get on with their day to day life as will the rest of us who don't worry about being regarded as infidels.

 

PS They used to use similar language as yours a century ago about Jews. How did that work out?

[milky_26]

This will go over a few posters heads but at least it's worth a go.

 

 

do you seriously believe no americans died due to iraqis during the gulf war?

 

estimates put is at 113

 

also what about the lockerbie disaster? libya took responsibility but iran most likely carried it out

Edited January 29, 2017 by milky_26

[Francis Albert]

Death to apostates is as relevant to most Muslims as the Spanish Inquisition is to targeting the heretics who left the Church of Rome. Still, if you want to believe that your Muslim neighbour wants to enslave you in a caliphate, you bash on. He or she will get on with their day to day life as will the rest of us who don't worry about being regarded as infidels.

 

PS They used to use similar language as yours a century ago about Jews. How did that work out?

To most muslims, of course. It is however a bit more relevant today than the Spanish Inquisition is, or even the language about Jews a century ago. I don't see too many Christians today employing the tactics of the Spanish Inquisition. True, the threat to Israel and Jews in Islamic countries and to a much lesser extent Jews in predominantly Christian countries exists. But the imposition of a caliphate seems more of a real and present danger. Edited January 30, 2017 by Francis Albert

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

To most muslims, of course. It is however a bit more relevant today than the Spanish Inquisition is, or even the language about Jews a century ago. I don't see too many Christians today employing the tactics of the Spanish Inquisition. True, the threat to Israel and Jews in Islamic countries and to a much lesser extent Jews in predominantly Christian countries exists. But the imposition of a caliphate seems more of a real and present danger.

About as real and present as the second coming of Christ.

[Maple Leaf]

I think that most of us realise that Trump's ban on Muslims is little more than political posturing.  He can legitimately claim that he has fulfilled an election promise.

 

However, the probability of his ban having improved the security of Americans, and of him having stopped an influx of Islamic terrorists, is vanishingly small. 

 

No matter.  The Trump supporters are loving it.

[elvoys]

Death to apostates is as relevant to most Muslims as the Spanish Inquisition is to targeting the heretics who left the Church of Rome. Still, if you want to believe that your Muslim neighbour wants to enslave you in a caliphate, you bash on. He or she will get on with their day to day life as will the rest of us who don't worry about being regarded as infidels.

 

PS They used to use similar language as yours a century ago about Jews. How did that work out?

You are utterly and frighteningly ignorant!

 

It is a cornerstone of the religion, and if you know your history (the Ridda Wars) it is the only reason the faith still exists. See the positions of heik qaradawi or the head of al ansar - the highest authorities in sunni Islam. Pew 2013 polls had it subscribed to by a third of their respondents - that equates to half a billion people worldwide!

 

All four schools of jurisprudence agree on its implication and 13 countries governing 300 mill people have wait - capital punishment for apostates! Whats more in a further 10 it is illegal.

 

Watch a uk documentary called 'leaving Islam'. Why do you think these brave souls cover their face in this country? Why do you think Ayaan Hirsi Ali or hamed Abdel sammad (look up who they are) live with the very real spectre of death hanging over their heads? Why do you think it's the fastest growing religion by a mile? Because its so funky and fun or because it thrives on areas of poverty and ignorance (high birth rates) and once you're born there is no way out?

 

Honestly, why is it that those that have a child-like naivety of the ideology are the first to accuse others of 'phobia' as if its not them who have the simplistic understanding?

 

P.S talking of jlchasing the jews - do you even have an inkling of the position of Jews in Islamic theology? You might want to start by counting the numbers country by country. It won't take long.

Edited January 30, 2017 by elvoys

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

You are utterly and frighteningly ignorant!

 

It is a cornerstone of the religion, and if you know your history (the Ridda Wars) it is the only reason the faith still exists. See the positions of heik qaradawi or the head of al ansar - the highest authorities in sunni Islam. Pew 2013 polls had it subscribed to by a third of their respondents - that equates to half a billion people worldwide!

 

All four schools of jurisprudence agree on its implication and 13 countries governing 300 mill people have wait - capital punishment for apostates! Whats more in a further 10 it is illegal.

 

Watch a uk documentary called 'leaving Islam'. Why do you think these brave souls cover their face in this country? Why do you think Ayaan Hirsi Ali or hamed Abdel sammad (look up who they are) live with the very real spectre of death hanging over their heads? Why do you think it's the fastest growing religion by a mile? Because its so funky and fun or because it thrives on areas of poverty and ignorance (high birth rates) and once you're born there is no way out?

 

Honestly, why is it that those that have a child-like naivety of the ideology are the first to accuse others of 'phobia' as if its not them who have the simplistic understanding?

 

P.S talking of jlchasing the jews - do you even have an inkling of the position of Jews in Islamic theology? You might want to start by counting the numbers country by country. It won't take long.

I've no interest in watching your documentary. Your paranoia is beyond belief. The idea that Islam is insidious and determined to become the dominant religion and culture in the West is frankly laughable.

[Nookie Bear]

This will go over a few posters heads but at least it's worth a go.

 

And there is another one doing the rounds showing the number of Americans killed by other Americans using handguns.

 

But why the patronising?

[elvoys]

I've no interest in watching your documentary. Your paranoia is beyond belief. The idea that Islam is insidious and determined to become the dominant religion and culture in the West is frankly laughable.

Please give a single example of paranoia. If you wish to discuss European demographics that's another issue but this was about apostacy laws for which you shockingly claimed wasnt a thing.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Please give a single example of paranoia. If you wish to discuss European demographics that's another issue but this was about apostacy laws for which you shockingly claimed wasnt a thing.

No it wasn't about apostasy but my point was that religious texts and doctrine have "evolved" from their production when the fanaticism of religion was a fundamental part of being human. Now religion, for most people, is a kind of convenience food.

 

To put it another way, Jews and Christians aren't stoning homosexuals to death, despite what it says in the Bible.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I think that most of us realise that Trump's ban on Muslims is little more than political posturing.  He can legitimately claim that he has fulfilled an election promise.

 

However, the probability of his ban having improved the security of Americans, and of him having stopped an influx of Islamic terrorists, is vanishingly small. 

 

No matter.  The Trump supporters are loving it.

 

The scary thing is that nearly 50% of those who voted in the election, voted for this very thing to happen.

 

 

[Frank]

I've no interest in watching your documentary. Your paranoia is beyond belief. The idea that Islam is insidious and determined to become the dominant religion and culture in the West is frankly laughable.

No, it isn't. Have you ever read the Qur'an? It makes the Old Testament look like Postman Pat!

[Frank]

You are utterly and frighteningly ignorant!

 

It is a cornerstone of the religion, and if you know your history (the Ridda Wars) it is the only reason the faith still exists. See the positions of heik qaradawi or the head of al ansar - the highest authorities in sunni Islam. Pew 2013 polls had it subscribed to by a third of their respondents - that equates to half a billion people worldwide!

 

All four schools of jurisprudence agree on its implication and 13 countries governing 300 mill people have wait - capital punishment for apostates! Whats more in a further 10 it is illegal.

 

Watch a uk documentary called 'leaving Islam'. Why do you think these brave souls cover their face in this country? Why do you think Ayaan Hirsi Ali or hamed Abdel sammad (look up who they are) live with the very real spectre of death hanging over their heads? Why do you think it's the fastest growing religion by a mile? Because its so funky and fun or because it thrives on areas of poverty and ignorance (high birth rates) and once you're born there is no way out?

 

Honestly, why is it that those that have a child-like naivety of the ideology are the first to accuse others of 'phobia' as if its not them who have the simplistic understanding?

 

P.S talking of jlchasing the jews - do you even have an inkling of the position of Jews in Islamic theology? You might want to start by counting the numbers country by country. It won't take long.

[AlphonseCapone]

No, it isn't. Have you ever read the Qur'an? It makes the Old Testament look like Postman Pat!

It amazes me how many Westerners have sat down and read the Qur'an everytime a thread mentioning muslims comes up

 

Muslim scholars devote their lifes to studying it but there are several JKB gadgies who've got it covered.

[Frank]

It amazes me how many Westerners have sat down and read the Qur'an everytime a thread mentioning muslims comes up

 

Muslim scholars devote their lifes to studying it but there are several JKB gadgies who've got it covered.

What's wrong with reading books?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No, it isn't. Have you ever read the Qur'an? It makes the Old Testament look like Postman Pat!

I've read a little but not from cover to cover as religious texts aren't that interesting. The world of Mohammed, Jesus and co is a bit different to the 21st century.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

It amazes me how many Westerners have sat down and read the Qur'an everytime a thread mentioning muslims comes up

 

Muslim scholars devote their lifes to studying it but there are several JKB gadgies who've got it covered.

They all start at the bit about 72 virgins!

[Frank]

I've read a little but not from cover to cover as religious texts aren't that interesting. The world of Mohammed, Jesus and co is a bit different to the 21st century.

Except Christian and Jewish fundamentalists tend to shy away from sawing peoples heads off these days.

[joondalupjambo]

I think that most of us realise that Trump's ban on Muslims is little more than political posturing.  He can legitimately claim that he has fulfilled an election promise.

 

However, the probability of his ban having improved the security of Americans, and of him having stopped an influx of Islamic terrorists, is vanishingly small. 

 

No matter.  The Trump supporters are loving it.

 

Any chance you could send me some links to any official information by the US government, White House or similar where it says this is a ban on Muslims?   I cannot find anything.