U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[aussieh]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/19/dahir-adan-the-somali-computer-student-who-stabbed-nine-in-minne/amp/?client=ms-android-tplink

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/28/developing-active-shooter-alert-at-ohio-state.amp.html?client=ms-android-tplink

 

Or in this universe, just two in the last three months...

1/Kenyan

2/Told fox news, aye no bad.

Edited January 29, 2017 by aussieh

[elvoys]

Not so sure about it being a short term problem, as the courts are involved now and congress is still to pass the executive order, so it's going to stay in the news for quite some time to come.

Maybe forgotten by the US but I can't see ISIS nor the countries being labelled as terrorist countries forgetting this anytime soon, they will remember this.

Trump has just become the best recruiting officer that ISIS has had in years, ISIS as we know are quite adept at using propaganda and will not miss the chance to recruit even more young men from the seven countries banned by making this into a religious ban or whatever.

 

He's signing lots of executive orders, none of which have been passed by congress yet, so I'd hold fire about catching his opponents on the hop, for the time being.

 

What would Trump have to do to justify an educated third generation Brit flying over to a country from which he has no heritage and executing Yazidi children in front of their patents? Is a UK Jew justified in terrorizing the dozen countries Israeli citizens are permanantly (not temporarily) banned from? This low expecation infantilising in the west is a big part of the prob.

[elvoys]

1/Kenyan

2/Told fox news, aye no bad.

1. Born Kenya, Somali parents.

2. Are u denying the details reported or just hiding behind the source?

[Peebo]

We'll see I suppose. Folk should also remember every president has had the power to ban nations/people etc from entering the USA.

Indeed. Can't see how you ban on basis of religion, though.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I missed your point about mo Fatah having travel issues which I'd agree with is silly. But if you're talking net result as a whole group, then Somali immigration to the west simply isn't the same as Chinese, Indian or Vietnamese. That's just a basic reality about Islamic immigration that is turning the political order in the west on its head.

I wasn't but then I don't tar a whole country with one brush like you do. Would you like an equivalent ban applied at the UK border?

[Francis Albert]

Short term problem in their (Trump) eyes I suspect. Will make headlines for a little while but will be forgotten soon enough. He's moving very fast on his campaign pledges and it's catching his opponents on the hop.

I don't think for a moment that Trump thinks a blanket ban is sustainable, even in the short term. But whereas other Presidents might have set up a working party or even cross-party committee on tighter controls, Trump just acts, and the reaction to stories of those affected (the familiar distorting pictures of mothers and babies, Mo Farah, the Iranian vet working in Glasgow etc - and we won't of course hear anything about potential terrorists affected) will force people to think urgently about the sort of practical controls that could and should be put in place. (The Obama regime recently dropped the ESTA Visa waiver programme for some countries to make entry more difficult but that raised not a single eyebrow).

 

Meanwhile the Observer has its weekly half of the front page big font rant about Trump "being ignorant, prejudiced and vicious in ways that no American leader has been". Obviously despite the great age of the paper, slavery, genocide, segregation, internment of foreign nationals during two world wars, very tight controls on Jews fleeing Hitler, the atomic bombs, napalming Vietnam and much of of South East Asia, Iraq etc etc escaped its attention. Trump is detestable, but FFS can we have just a sliver of proportion.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Francis Albert

[aussieh]

1. Born Kenya, Somali parents.

2. Are u denying the details reported or just hiding behind the source?

it's only guesswork, it's not fact. His opinion that it has the hallmark of a terror attack means nothing.

No evidence, all propaganda. I'll go with the facts. And BTW he'd have been allowed entry by the Fact he's Kenyan born. Maybe Somalian by parentage, but Kenyan none the less.

Example, Rod Stewart, English but Scottish.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I don't think for a moment that Trump thinks a blanket ban is sustainable, even in the short term. But whereas other Presidents might have set up a working party or even cross-party committee on tighter controls, Trump just acts, and the reaction to stories of those affected (the familiar distorting pictures of mothers and babies, Mo Farah, the Iranian vet working in Glasgow etc - and we won't of course hear anything about potential terrorists affected) will force people to think urgently about the sort of practical controls that could and should be put in place. (The Obama regime recently dropped the ESTA Visa waiver programme for some countries to make entry more difficult but that raised not a single eyebrow).

 

Meanwhile the Observer has its weekly half of the front page big font rant about Trump "being ignorant, prejudiced and vicious in ways that no American leader has been". Obviously despite the great age of the paper, slavery, genocide, segregation, internment of foreign nationals during two world wars, the atomic bombs, napalming Vietnam and much of of South East Asia, Iraq etc etc escaped its attention. Trump is detestable, but FFS can we have just a sliver of proportion.

It won't encourage people to think about "practical controls". It will confirm if it were needed that Trump is a dangerous arsehole who will hopefully end up being impeached!

[Francis Albert]

It won't encourage people to think about "practical controls". It will confirm if it were needed that Trump is a dangerous arsehole who will hopefully end up being impeached!

We'll see.

[Space Mackerel]

To be fair trying to defeat a terrorist organisation which is active across a range Of Nato members is not the same as invading Iraq and Iran to achieve regime change.

Last time I checked, ISIS was in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia, Somalia and Yemen to name but a few.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Last time I checked, ISIS was in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, India, Saudi Arabia, Somalia and Yemen to name but a few.

And there's no Saudi ban of course.

[elvoys]

I wasn't but then I don't tar a whole country with one brush like you do. Would you like an equivalent ban applied at the UK border?

1. Visas - if UK home office are happy with security information provided from a war torn, jihadi plagued country like Sonalia then I trust the best security system in the world. The american admin felt theirs wasnt tight enough.

 

2. Migration - no obvious or easy solution apart from trickle paced (which is inherently unsympathetic to the amount of genuine refugees worldwide) presents itself to me. I wish there was.

[Space Mackerel]

And there's no Saudi ban of course.

Guess they'll be off the drone strike list then.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1. Visas - if UK home office are happy with security information provided from a war torn, jihadi plagued country like Sonalia then I trust the best security system in the world. The american admin felt theirs wasnt tight enough.

 

2. Migration - no obvious or easy solution apart from trickle paced (which is inherently unsympathetic to the amount of genuine refugees worldwide) presents itself to me. I wish there was.

Nice ducking of the question. On point 1, the fact it is war torn means that the balance of probabilities is that someone has genuine grounds for asylum.

 

Economic migration is an entirely different question.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

What would Trump have to do to justify an educated third generation Brit flying over to a country from which he has no heritage and executing Yazidi children in front of their patents? Is a UK Jew justified in terrorizing the dozen countries Israeli citizens are permanantly (not temporarily) banned from? This low expecation infantilising in the west is a big part of the prob.

 

You will always get idealised and radicalised people joining organisations for which they have no apparent affiliation to, but we're not on about that here, are we?

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

I don't think for a moment that Trump thinks a blanket ban is sustainable, even in the short term. But whereas other Presidents might have set up a working party or even cross-party committee on tighter controls, Trump just acts, and the reaction to stories of those affected (the familiar distorting pictures of mothers and babies, Mo Farah, the Iranian vet working in Glasgow etc - and we won't of course hear anything about potential terrorists affected) will force people to think urgently about the sort of practical controls that could and should be put in place. (The Obama regime recently dropped the ESTA Visa waiver programme for some countries to make entry more difficult but that raised not a single eyebrow).

 

Meanwhile the Observer has its weekly half of the front page big font rant about Trump "being ignorant, prejudiced and vicious in ways that no American leader has been". Obviously despite the great age of the paper, slavery, genocide, segregation, internment of foreign nationals during two world wars, very tight controls on Jews fleeing Hitler, the atomic bombs, napalming Vietnam and much of of South East Asia, Iraq etc etc escaped its attention. Trump is detestable, but FFS can we have just a sliver of proportion.

 

I agree with what you're saying FA. Thing is as I said on elsewhere he's caught his opponents completely on the hop.  One thing I'd like to know is how many Syrian refugees the uber wealthy Saudis have taken in and why considering the USA is the "great satan" do these muslims all want to head there or to other Christian countries so keenly?

Edited January 29, 2017 by Seymour M Hersh

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I agree with what you're saying FA. Thing is as I said on elsewhere he's caught his opponents completely on the hop. One thing I'd like to know is how many Syrian refugees the uber wealthy Saudis have taken in and why considering the USA is the "great satan" do these muslims all want to head there or to other Christian countries so keenly?

Most Syrians have gone to Turkey, next door funnily enough.

[Ulysses]

Conservative MP for Stratford-on-Avon banned from the US by Trump's policy.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38787517

 

 

 

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."

 

- Winston Churchill

[aussieh]

I agree with what you're saying FA. Thing is as I said on elsewhere he's caught his opponents completely on the hop. One thing I'd like to know is how many Syrian refugees the uber wealthy Saudis have taken in and why considering the USA is the "great satan" do these muslims all want to head there or to other Christian countries so keenly?

500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia.

Poor barstewards

[elvoys]

500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia.

Only on work visas - ie they have got necessary skills and even then numbers have been heavily inflated. They are technically foreign workers. UAE actually agreed to take 15k actual refugees over 5 years which is a better indication of the scale of willingness.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Only on work visas - ie they have got necessary skills and even then numbers have been heavily inflated. They are technically foreign workers. UAE actually agreed to take 15k actual refugees over 5 years which is a better indication of the scale of willingness.

Seem to remember the UK doing similar from the Turkish refugee camps.

[elvoys]

https://sethfrantzman.com/2017/01/28/obamas-administration-made-the-muslim-ban-possible-and-the-media-wont-tell-you/

 

The partizan nature of the media in not presenting issues like this in an objective manner is a big problem. The BBC as a supposed neutral tax funded player are the worst offenders on this issue. They who ran the headline , 'Syrian Migrant Killed in German Blast' to describe the failed summer concert suicide bombing.

[Maple Leaf]

I read today that Trump has a 85% approval rating among Republicans, and a 4% approval rating among Democrats.

 

He's doing what he said he'd do ... and being as divisive as everyone feared.

[aussieh]

Only on work visas - ie they have got necessary skills and even then numbers have been heavily inflated. They are technically foreign workers. UAE actually agreed to take 15k actual refugees over 5 years which is a better indication of the scale of willingness.

still classed as in distress. Other words Refugees, but keep up the propaganda, as always. Edited January 29, 2017 by aussieh

[elvoys]

still classed as in distress. Other words Refugees, but keep up the propaganda, as always.

You're wrong - as always.

[CJGJ]

People like Mo Farah will now be impacted never mind a Tory MP who would not be allowed to either enter or leave America

 

He shoots from the hip but fails to look deeply enough into issues and the consequences that will follow

[Malinga the Swinga]

Who cares what Mo Farah thinks. I am sure he will manage to get by. Why not let the US worry about their policies whilst we worry about UK policy. It is truly sad just how many soft do gooders post on here. Wonder how they have the time in between saving the world and scanning the news/internet to find more stories that fit into their nice rainbow coloured world.

 

I would rather spend my time watching the Hearts and doing stuff with family and friends rather than acting as the moral police for everyone else.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Who cares what Mo Farah thinks. I am sure he will manage to get by. Why not let the US worry about their policies whilst we worry about UK policy. It is truly sad just how many soft do gooders post on here. Wonder how they have the time in between saving the world and scanning the news/internet to find more stories that fit into their nice rainbow coloured world.

 

I would rather spend my time watching the Hearts and doing stuff with family and friends rather than acting as the moral police for everyone else.

No one is acting as a "moral policeman". People are calling out the utter buffoonery of this policy. As I said above, this arsehole might take offence at someone like John Oliver and ban all Brits from the US. Far fetched? Maybe but with Trump anything is possible.

[Space Mackerel]

So not one of the US daily papers managed to put Maggie Mays recent visit to meet Trump on their front page. Looks like the Donald and the US media have given the Special Relationship a short sharp (Br)exit.

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-trump-visit-newspapers-american-press-insignificance-a7550686.html?cmpid=facebook-post

Edited January 29, 2017 by Space Mackerel

[Hendricks]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCysq_5XcAA

[Malinga the Swinga]

No one is acting as a "moral policeman". People are calling out the utter buffoonery of this policy. As I said above, this arsehole might take offence at someone like John Oliver and ban all Brits from the US. Far fetched? Maybe but with Trump anything is possible.

he may and if he does, then the UK will deal with it. You know of course, that he won't and has no intention of doing so. Perhaps leave the countries actually impacted by the policy to deal with the issues it has thrown up as it is their citizens who have been banned and it is up to their governments to deal with the matter.

[Malinga the Swinga]

So not one of the US daily papers managed to put Maggie Mays recent visit to meet Trump on their front page. Looks like the Donald and the US media have given the Special Relationship a short sharp (Br)exit. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-trump-visit-newspapers-american-press-insignificance-a7550686.html?cmpid=facebook-post

At least May has met with Trump. First foreign leader to do so I believe so she has done okay. Wonder just how long it will take Sturgeon to be granted an audience with the President.

[Ulysses]

he may and if he does, then the UK will deal with it. You know of course, that he won't and has no intention of doing so. Perhaps leave the countries actually impacted by the policy to deal with the issues it has thrown up as it is their citizens who have been banned and it is up to their governments to deal with the matter.

 

Perhaps the right course of action would be to do nothing until Mo Farah and Nadhim Zahawi become British citiz....................    ......oops.

[Space Mackerel]

At least May has met with Trump. First foreign leader to do so I believe so she has done okay. Wonder just how long it will take Sturgeon to be granted an audience with the President.

2 countries going about the world looking for pals since their dullard right wing uneducated occupants have voted for isolation.

I think Scotland will be just dandy after independence, we have alienated no one. In fact, there's 27 countries and their leaders hoping we ditch the Yoon.

[Francis Albert]

2 countries going about the world looking for pals since their dullard right wing uneducated occupants have voted for isolation.

I think Scotland will be just dandy after independence, we have alienated no one. In fact, there's 27 countries and their leaders hoping we ditch the Yoon.

Please provide a quote from two of the leaders of these 27 countries. OK maybe difficult. How about one?

[Malinga the Swinga]

Perhaps the right course of action would be to do nothing until Mo Farah and Nadhim Zahawi become British citiz....................    ......oops.

perhaps Farah should check and see whether he is impacted and whether he is actually banned before opening his mouth and trying to stir up media attention. He is a British citizen and doesn't hold a Soamlian passport. Has anyone told him he is banned? Nope, don't think they have. It is the responsibility of the individual to check on their status and pretty sure that Mo, man of the people, will have some lucky employed to do that for him whilst he counts the money he earns.

 

As an aside, perhaps the fact that Farah actually lives in the US and not in the UK partly explains why, despite his success in athletics, the majority of the British people don't actually like him.

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 countries going about the world looking for pals since their dullard right wing uneducated occupants have voted for isolation.

I think Scotland will be just dandy after independence, we have alienated no one. In fact, there's 27 countries and their leaders hoping we ditch the Yoon.

what is 'the Yoon'? Look forward to seeing the quotes you have been asked to produce.

[CJGJ]

he may and if he does, then the UK will deal with it. You know of course, that he won't and has no intention of doing so. Perhaps leave the countries actually impacted by the policy to deal with the issues it has thrown up as it is their citizens who have been banned and it is up to their governments to deal with the matter.

Our country is impacted by it or do you not realise that ?....the danger is appeasers like you will allow him to do what he wants without comment and just where that will lead is open to question.

[Space Mackerel]

Please provide a quote from two of the leaders of these 27 countries. OK maybe difficult. How about one?

[CJGJ]

'Tory MP Nadhim Zahawi has said the executive order from President Trump bans him from the US and makes him feel discriminated against for the first time since he was a child.

Speaking on the Andrew Marr show, he described the policy as "cruel" - and said he hoped Mr Trump would change his mind.'

 

 

Still doesn't impact on the UK so it's all right by some on here..............at what point will they admit many of his policies impact on the world and not just the USA and when they do we should say so or should we according to some simply roll over and have our tummies stroked

[Malinga the Swinga]

Our country is impacted by it or do you not realise that ?....the danger is appeasers like you will allow him to do what he wants without comment and just where that will lead is open to question.

Imfreely admit that I couldn't care of citizens from the countries named are stopped from entering the US. I also admit if they were banned from entering the UK, it wouldn't bother me either.

 

We have no right to stop the US from making and deciding its own policies. It is not appeasement, it is just not our business. Can I ask why there is no media storm over the policy of Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lybia, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria and Yeman in not granting visas to anyone who has either a used or unused Israeli visa in their passport. Presume that as that doesn't concern them, then it isn't a story.

 

Should the US decide to extend refusal of entry to the UK, then we can get involved, but he hasn't and he won't. Stop pretending this is the start of something it isn't.

[Ulysses]

perhaps Farah should check and see whether he is impacted and whether he is actually banned before opening his mouth and trying to stir up media attention. He is a British citizen and doesn't hold a Soamlian passport. Has anyone told him he is banned? Nope, don't think they have. It is the responsibility of the individual to check on their status and pretty sure that Mo, man of the people, will have some lucky employed to do that for him whilst he counts the money he earns.

 

As an aside, perhaps the fact that Farah actually lives in the US and not in the UK partly explains why, despite his success in athletics, the majority of the British people don't actually like him.

 

 

You forgot the MP.  Just saying.

[kingantti1874]

 

Please provide a quote from two of the leaders of these 27 countries. OK maybe difficult. How about one?

whens the referendum ? Hurry up and get on with it..

[Space Mackerel]

whens the referendum ? Hurry up and get on with it..

Have patience, we will decide. We have all the Aces.

[Space Mackerel]

And the Kings, Queens and Jacks

[Malinga the Swinga]

Have patience, we will decide. We have all the Aces.

but not enough votes

[Malinga the Swinga]

You forgot the MP.  Just saying.

sorry, I was trying to answer based on my own knowledge and not just look up the Internet. I don't know the MP concerned, but again, if it is just his feelings that have been hurt, pretty sure he will get over it. Why doesn't he apply for entry to the US and see if he is allowed in. Presume he doesn't want to try in case he is allowed in and then the story isn't as dramatic.

[elvoys]

No one is acting as a "moral policeman". People are calling out the utter buffoonery of this policy. As I said above, this arsehole might take offence at someone like John Oliver and ban all Brits from the US. Far fetched? Maybe but with Trump anything is possible.

Mo Farah like every other dual national will be fine after 90 days. Inconvenient and they should have prob not listed duals but its not like he's from a really 'evil' country like Israel where travel dilemmas are a birth right.

 

Secondly, the upper limit on refugees from these war zones will stay roughly the same 50k as it has been for the past decade in 120 days time when the vetting assessment period lapses.

 

On the plus side the definition of a refugee must take into account religious persecution yet America and have managed to take 95% sunni Muslim of the 1000 plus Syrian refugees to date and the media has been complicit ignoring the actual genocide of Christians and yazidis. Trump should be acknowledged for addressing this upside down logic.

 

Lastly, if the bbc et all actually did some basic journalism instead of gauging the feelsies level of celebs and Hamas funding pressure groups, then a sensible discussion could be had. Until then, the terror threat level will remain very real from immigrants to the country as it has for fifteen years and the two bit journos and outrage mob can thank the big bad oppressive western security apparatus for keeping them in blissful ignorance about its scale.

 

http://dailysignal.com/2015/09/10/a-timeline-of-73-islamist-terror-plots-since-911/

[Nookie Bear]

2 countries going about the world looking for pals since their dullard right wing uneducated occupants have voted for isolation.

I think Scotland will be just dandy after independence, we have alienated no one. In fact, there's 27 countries and their leaders hoping we ditch the Yoon.

Despite Trump's presidency, the world keeps turning and it would be mad for the UK to distance itself from the USA which may cause longer term damage than merely Trump's 4 years.

 

Oh, and the Scotland you hold so dearly has one million dulled right wing uneducated occupants in residence.