haveyouheard 22 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, redm said: No idea about the pre-match thing but if it was the Kickback song it would explain Robinson’s reference to “a group of about 20” or whatever it was that he said. Chances of 20 folk collectively deciding to whap out racist songs like that at a home game seem pretty unlikely. There’s not a chance the people around them would have missed it either. Sums it up for me *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, jambocub said: I'm no expecting it to be public just if there's clear video evidence ( sure the motherwell manager said he watched it). It'll be quite easy to prosecute Indeed , playing devils advocate it could be that the incident before the match is one incident and what Robinson is referring to is infact a misunderstanding of the Kickback song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, sadj said: Wouldn’t be able to charge them without corroboration before it was passed to the PF though is that correct. So as they have been charged there had to be sufficient evidence to charge them. Whether that turns into a prosecution is a different matter Yes, corroberation is required in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, redm said: No idea about the pre-match thing but if it was the Kickback song it would explain Robinson’s reference to “a group of about 20” or whatever it was that he said. Chances of 20 folk collectively deciding to whap out racist songs like that at a home game seem pretty slim. There’s not a chance the people around them would have missed it either. I agree with this. In this day and age, racism isn't as blatant as is being made out in the allegation. That said, if they were singing about Kickback then they have an IQ that is challenging and therefore they could easily have been as stupid as this. Either way, morons getting the long arm of Inspector Knacker is welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, redm said: No idea about the pre-match thing but if it was the Kickback song it would explain Robinson’s reference to “a group of about 20” or whatever it was that he said. Chances of 20 folk collectively deciding to whap out racism like that at a home game seem pretty unlikely. There’s not a chance the people around them would have missed it either. It's all a bit confusing now, if I've understood how it has all panned out. It seems, and I accept I may be wrong, that anything untoward that was said took place outside the stadium, and was heard by some of the Motherwell players (although I'm struggling to work out where outside the stadium would a group of Motherwell players be together. I always imagined that the team bus pulled up somewhere outside the stadium, very close to the entrance the players got off the bus and immediately entered the stadium). If it was something which happened inside the stadium it must have been when the Motherwell substitutes were warming up and possibly passing lower Section N, yet others who were in that area of the stadium are saying they heard nothing untoward). And if it did happen outside the ground how would anyone know if those involved were all from Section N as there are people who sit in a multitude of sections who all enter the ground through the same turnstiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, kila said: Police must be confident of a win in court if they are charging them. Perhaps audio matching CCTV exists along with other footage (probably from Motherwell's pitch shots they do during games). It doesn’t work like that. Police have zero say in whether a case goes to court or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, redm said: No idea about the pre-match thing but if it was the Kickback song it would explain Robinson’s reference to “a group of about 20” or whatever it was that he said. Chances of 20 folk collectively deciding to whap out racism like that at a home game seem pretty unlikely. There’s not a chance the people around them would have missed it either. Maybe he is assuming that a song sung later containing 'kickback' was something else because of a crime before kick off. I hope it is all a misunderstanding, but the truth will come out soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, portobellojambo1 said: It's all a bit confusing now, if I've understood how it has all panned out. It seems, and I accept I may be wrong, that anything untoward that was said took place outside the stadium, and was heard by some of the Motherwell players (although I'm struggling to work out where outside the stadium would a group of Motherwell players be together. I always imagined that the team bus pulled up somewhere outside the stadium, very close to the entrance the players got off the bus and immediately entered the stadium). If it was something which happened inside the stadium it must have been when the Motherwell substitutes were warming up and possibly passing lower Section N, yet others who were in that area of the stadium are saying they heard nothing untoward). And if it did happen outside the ground how would anyone know if those involved were all from Section N as there are people who sit in a multitude of sections who all enter the ground through the same turnstiles. It happened inside the ground during the warmup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 In next week’s instalment of “I have a friend who is coloured”.... ”Nah, nope. I didn’t shout racist abuse at that black fellae. He has a really big and happy laugh and what I actually said was - that is some snigger” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: It doesn’t work like that. Police have zero say in whether a case goes to court or not. To charge someone now you must have corroborated evidence under new laws? Sorry missed Sadj posts Edited December 10, 2018 by jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 By the way that text saying that they have been charged and need to go to court. I find that hard to believe as they would have been charged on Sunday and it will take the police a few weeks to even submit a report to the PF who will then make the decision as to whether there is strong enough evidence to go to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: It happened inside the ground during the warmup Does the pre match warm up not actually take place on the pitch itself. And if so does it not suggest that if something was transmitted verbally it would have to be loud enough for players out on the pitch to hear it as well as others already situated in lower Section N, who appear to have heard nothing untoward. Edited December 10, 2018 by portobellojambo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 50 minutes ago, sadj said: That is just not true , CCTV on body cams or videos on personal phones or indeed corroboration from other individuals could be used. Further to that professional lip readers can and have been used to corroborate things Fuzzy Wuzzy was a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: It happened inside the ground during the warmup That would eplain our subs warming up at half time at the opposite end to the usual. (at half time) Edited December 10, 2018 by graygo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Jamhammer said: From phone? I’m only going by what I’ve read on here. I’m guessing it’s official video as hasn’t surfaced on SM. Certainly if it’s body cam footage may well have sound. Any excuse for one of my fav bits of comedy ever Edited December 10, 2018 by i8hibsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Are there many people in that section anyway when the players are warming up, most fans will still be making their way from the pubs at that time. Twenty people in a group shouting racist things towards a player sounds unlikely but time will tell I suppose. If guilt is proved then ban them for life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Fuzzy Wuzzy was a woman. I was watching that yesterday!!! Joan Severance ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said: Are there many people in that section anyway when the players are warming up, most fans will still be making their way from the pubs at that time. Twenty people in a group shouting racist things towards a player sounds unlikely but time will tell I suppose. If guilt is proved then ban them for life! As i and others said above , Im thinking the incident that led to arrests and the 10/20 people thing are two different things. Would make a lot of sense for that to be the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said: Does the pre match warm up not actually take place on the pitch itself. And if so does it not suggest that if something was transmitted verbally it would have to be loud enough for players out on the pitch to hear it as well as others already situated in lower Section N, who appear to have heard nothing untoward. How many fans would be in N lower at 2.30 when their warm-up starts? Very few I think so not many around tohear suggested racist comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, graygo said: That would eplain our subs warming up at half time at the opposite end to the usual. (at half time) Indeed. I wondered what was going on at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, sadj said: As i and others said above , Im thinking the incident that led to arrests and the 10/20 people thing are two different things. Would make a lot of sense for that to be the case Yes I think the 20 in a group could be the misheard kickback song and the two arrested could be from prematch possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairyinthat Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 24 minutes ago, jambocub said: I'm no expecting it to be public just if there's clear video evidence ( sure the motherwell manager said he watched it). It'll be quite easy to prosecute If the Police have proof to make their case then the culprits will have to take their lumps,tough luck.But it will not be some dopey points scoring manager who oversees this but the culprit lawyer.As for reliability any idea how many were convicted in the recent cup final via tv evidence.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocub Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 26 minutes ago, sadj said: Indeed , playing devils advocate it could be that the incident before the match is one incident and what Robinson is referring to is infact a misunderstanding of the Kickback song. I've no read everything was there 2 incidents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 51 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: Police don’t tend to publish every arrest made ?? So the two guys got arrested as they left and you went haring off to ask the steward who then gave you a full explanation? ? Pretty much exactly what will have happened. The stewards were getting abused and one explained why they were getting lifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, jambocub said: I've no read everything was there 2 incidents? Sounds likely. Edit: Although one of them sounds like a non-incident. Edited December 10, 2018 by graygo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 23 minutes ago, jake said: To charge someone now you must have corroborated evidence under new laws? Sorry missed Sadj posts You don’t need corroboration to charge, just the balance of evidence. Corroboration comes into play when the PF tries to convict. 19 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said: Does the pre match warm up not actually take place on the pitch itself. And if so does it not suggest that if something was transmitted verbally it would have to be loud enough for players out on the pitch to hear it as well as others already situated in lower Section N, who appear to have heard nothing untoward. Players can hear individual shouts during matches so pretty sure they can hear them pre-match 17 minutes ago, graygo said: That would eplain our subs warming up at half time at the opposite end to the usual. (at half time) Certainly makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Currahee! said: The stewards were getting abused and one explained why they were getting lifted. Glad to hear the stewards getting treated with respect ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, jambocub said: I've no read everything was there 2 incidents? No no im saying the alleged incident would be the pre match one people have mentioned and the confusion over the kickback song could be what Robinson referred to about a group of 10/20 people. So one incident and one misunderstanding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said: Are there many people in that section anyway when the players are warming up, most fans will still be making their way from the pubs at that time. Twenty people in a group shouting racist things towards a player sounds unlikely but time will tell I suppose. If guilt is proved then ban them for life! I’m like you mate I’m finding this difficult to take in. Warming up before the game they’d be on the park not running up and down the touchline. I know a couple of posters appear to be ITK and they’ve obviously heard stuff I haven’t but I can’t even remember the last time I heard someone be openly racist and a group singing it sounds even more unlikely considering nobody claims to have heard it apart from Motherwell players. If I’d heard it I wouldn’t be covering anyone’s arse you’d tell it like it is. It was like that Chelsea incident you can watch it over and over and still be undecided what the guy has shouted, it could be both of the alleged. I’d have expected the black lad next to him to at least have thrown him a dirty look if he’d said what he’s being accused of but he didn’t. I hope they get the book thrown at them if true but I’m not one for getting the noose out just yet. I get the fear that someone like Prof might ever get a position of power anywhere too. Either that or he’s just a shite hibs troll. Edited December 10, 2018 by jack D and coke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I was gonna hold my tongue on this little fact as it's off-topic, but it shows the people we are dealing with regards some of the behavior and people in N. When the Leicester City owners helicopter went down, a prominent face in that section mentioned on Twitter that he ''wished Ann had a helicopter''. Quite a few of his followers ''liked'' and commented favorably on it. Several of those inhabit N. There is a very nasty element in there who appear to be racist, sectarian and very anti-Budge. It is worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Anybody been charged yet? Oh and as an aside I won I8 bingo last night when he blamed it all on social media??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambocub Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, sadj said: No no im saying the alleged incident would be the pre match one people have mentioned and the confusion over the kickback song could be what Robinson referred to about a group of 10/20 people. So one incident and one misunderstanding What's the incident pre match ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Sexton Hardcastle said: Much like one of Tommy’s hertz twitter fan boys claiming that their mob raised thousands for a kid with autism yet having previous posts taking the piss out of Jay Beattie. That whole network of fans are just beyond help. He posted again the other day something similar. Mocking a disabled child. Absolute cretin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Larky_Jambo said: Do you have proof of just hearsay I can 2nd it. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, Notts1874 said: Anybody been charged yet? Oh and as an aside I won I8 bingo last night when he blamed it all on social media??? Yeah, at least 2 people ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Larky_Jambo said: Interesting reading.... Just a shame that the High & Mighty (Hearts Elite) sit everywhere other than the knuckle dragging scum of N ! Comments from the Gold Card Club Of Hearts Elite are disgustingly cringeworthy! Those who site in N pay like everyone else have jobs like everyone else paid into the Club to save it like everyone else yet (2 Persons Unidentified) reflects that everyone in N is scum....think you need a reality check everyone at Tynecastle is their to see 11 players play football for 90min and sometimes that’s a disaster! Mountain Mole Hill let’s concentrate on the football and how well our team are playing or not if we had 21 pages of how good or bad we played would be more realistic and relevant than grown adults debating over trivial matters and point scoring with each other! Simmer down and loose the Elitist Gold Card Attitude we are Heart of Midlothian Supporters a working mans club with working mans supporters regardless of religion ion creed or colour we welcome them all so to sum up, you couldn't care less about racists and anyone not working class is not welcome at tynecastle. Thanks for your input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/46514300 Chelsea following our lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 10 hours ago, sadj said: Its not as easy as that for the club , they have no choice but to act now based on the Police action. Something im sure your very aware of. Of course they have a choice, what if it turns out the police (heaven forbid) got it wrong and they miss the Hibs game for example. Punnishing people before they are found guilty isn't on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haveyouheard 22 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said: Of course they have a choice, what if it turns out the police (heaven forbid) got it wrong and they miss the Hibs game for example. Punnishing people before they are found guilty isn't on. Some on here would say otherwise !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: I’m like you mate I’m finding this difficult to take in. Warming up before the game they’d be on the park not running up and down the touchline. I know a couple of posters appear to be ITK and they’ve obviously heard stuff I haven’t but I can’t even remember the last time I heard someone be openly racist and a group singing it sounds even more unlikely considering nobody claims to have heard it apart from Motherwell players. If I’d heard it I wouldn’t be covering anyone’s arse you’d tell it like it is. It was like that Chelsea incident you can watch it over and over and still be undecided what the guy has shouted, it could be both of the alleged. I’d have expected the black lad next to him to at least have thrown him a dirty look if he’d said what he’s being accused of but he didn’t. I hope they get the book thrown at them if true but I’m not one for getting the noose out just yet. I get the fear that someone like Prof might ever get a position of power anywhere too. Either that or he’s just a shite hibs troll. I know certain opposition players no matter if they are black or white will get stick when they are near the edge of the pitch. It could be Lee Griffiths, Shinnie at Aberdeen, Scott Brown, Morelos. It happens to our players away too, even our manager was getting it from the St Johnstone fans but if you caught the same fans on camara giving abuse it could look racist. Mind you Sterling was close enough to hear so it does sound a bit ominous for the few Chelsea fans seen on screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uche Gang Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 39 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: You don’t need corroboration to charge, just the balance of evidence. Corroboration comes into play when the PF tries to convict. Players can hear individual shouts during matches so pretty sure they can hear them pre-match Certainly makes sense How do you know the alleged incident took place before the match? Did you witness it or just going on a news report? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said: Of course they have a choice, what if it turns out the police (heaven forbid) got it wrong and they miss the Hibs game for example. Punnishing people before they are found guilty isn't on. Disagree. It's analogous to people getting suspended from a workplace while allegations against them are investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 12 minutes ago, Uche Gang said: How do you know the alleged incident took place before the match? Did you witness it or just going on a news report? Didn’t witness it as I’m in T but I know from two separate sources it happened ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, redm said: No idea about the pre-match thing but if it was the Kickback song it would explain Robinson’s reference to “a group of about 20” or whatever it was that he said. Chances of 20 folk collectively deciding to whap out racist songs like that at a home game seem pretty slim. There’s not a chance the people around them would have missed it either. There's not a chance the folk round about them wouldn't have told them to stfu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 52 minutes ago, jambocub said: What's the incident pre match ? The incident prematch is when the alleged racial abuse happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 38 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said: Of course they have a choice, what if it turns out the police (heaven forbid) got it wrong and they miss the Hibs game for example. Punnishing people before they are found guilty isn't on. 35 minutes ago, haveyouheard 22 said: Some on here would say otherwise !!! The club don’t have a choice. They have to be seen to be acting. Even if we hadn’t had the incidents we have recently they would have to. The authorities are bound to be watching everything we do closely. The correct course of action is based on the charges against the two (which have to have been corroborated to be given out) to give them indefinite bans. Then they can act dependent on the PF or court decision. As its high profile I would doubt the PF would let it disappear it will most likely go to court even if then subsequently found not guilty or its admonished. Iv been there myself (not for anything like that but the PF decided to prosecute due to who I am and the role I had at the time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 15 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Disagree. It's analogous to people getting suspended from a workplace while allegations against them are investigated. 9 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: There's not a chance the folk round about them wouldn't have told them to stfu. Spot on with both these posts imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: There's not a chance the folk round about them wouldn't have told them to stfu. Was it Robinson who claimed it was 20 fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: Was it Robinson who claimed it was 20 fans? No idea mate. Was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: No idea mate. Was it? I can’t find a single quote about the 20 fans. Wondering where it has originated from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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