Arrests for racial abuse at Tynecastle

[Governor Tarkin]

7 hours ago, JyTees said:

 

Exactly. The curve ball has been added by the alleged events taking place prior to ko. I've no idea if Frank's info is spot on or if there's been a wee bit Chinese whispers along the way, confusion added due to Mbulu warming up when it happened.

 

Just doesn't add up.

 

I've no idea why the subs would be warming up on the touchline adjacent to section N before kick off either.

[Governor Tarkin]

22 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

 

Before the match kicked off the Motherwell players were warming up in that half. There’s been an incident between Mbulu and a number of Hearts fans which has led to other Motherwell players getting involved. Stewards and police have then came over to deal with the situation.

 

The reason the 20 fans thing doesn’t make sense for me is because the incident before the game only involved a few fans. My own interpretation is that that section has then been getting filmed throughout the first half while the subs ran past and that’s maybe where the song thing comes in. The Well players, in presence of the manager, have been asked to make a quick ID of the fans involved in the ore-match incident using the video. 

 

This would explain why Robinson was able to talk about having seen the video when interviewed immediately after the match and also why the Motherwell subs weren’t warming up where the away team normally would at halftime.

 

Basing this on things I know did happen and what others have said. ??

 

Cheers.

[fabienleclerq]

10 hours ago, luckydug said:

What if they try and intimidate any possible witnesses ?

The action Hearts have taken will have been on the orders of the Police.

Stop trying to use this as a stick to beat the club with.

 

How am I beating the club with a stick FFS, it's a pretty basic premise in a democracy. Innocent until proven otherwise.

[i8hibsh]

From an ex season ticket holder in section N I can tell you that 20 people being there that early enough to see players warm up is rare. Let alone a big group of 20 racists.

Edited December 11, 2018 by i8hibsh

[jack D and coke]

43 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

From an ex season ticket holder in section N I can tell you that 20 people being there that early enough to see players warm up is rare. Let alone a big group of 20 racists.

It just doesn’t sound all that likely to me. I really want to call shite on it tbh. Player warming up on the pitch. Big group of racists in early. People would have to shout pretty loud for it to be heard. Motherwell steward (is that what I read somewhere?) just happens to be filming it too? Aye?

[i8hibsh]

34 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

It just doesn’t sound all that likely to me. I really want to call shite on it tbh. Player warming up on the pitch. Big group of racists in early. People would have to shout pretty loud for it to be heard. Motherwell steward (is that what I read somewhere?) just happens to be filming it too? Aye?

 

Indeed.  I would even be open to say sadly, it is not outwith the realms of possibility and of course it could be, I just do not see it however.  Would be disgusted and hugely disappointed if it is so right enough but ffs people with pitchforks out after our own fans, based on nothing but hear ‘say.  Disgraceful stuff.  I will always think more of us than a fan base to  always give the initial benefit of any doubt.

 

What an age we live in.  It goes a bit like this

 

1.        Accusation

2.       Post on Facebook, Twitter etc

3.       Goes ‘viral’

4.       The social media robots shake their head (no questions asked)

5.       Pitch forks out

6.       Careers ended

7.       Reputations ruined

8.       People show the world their virtue (when really this action is far from virtuous)

9.       Guilty? Who gives a ****

 

This shit is absolutely relentless. Even today there is yet again another ‘racism’ thread on here.  We need to create a new sub-forum.  The BBC is 24 hours a day on racial discrimination, gender equality, transgender. Islam.  I can only take so much – I really can.  I have almost excluded mainstream media out my life in its entirety and I come on here for some respite from the daily grind and this place is piling it on heavy more and more.

 

People shaking heads at people on this thread because they just so happen to not be a drone and actually question and rely on evidence then get called racist for doing so or being told you are not condemning it.  Condemning what? What is to condemn at this actual stage? A story? An accusation? Of course I ****ing condemn racism, I also condemn people acting on accusation without knowing the actual event or incident. 

 

I dare say I will get called a racist (or whatever one feels to call me to make them feel better) for not posting how much this is a disgrace and how this is not welcome at our club, ffs of course I feel that way, but at this stage (no actual proof) this is only self-serving.

 

Anyone looking from the outside in at this forum and at Budge’s round the clock statements would think we are the new Millwall or Luton ffs, get to **** with this shit – it is simply not the reality at HMFC. 

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by i8hibsh

[SUTOL]

2 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I've no idea why the subs would be warming up on the touchline adjacent to section N before kick off either.

 

They wouldn't need to be "on the touchline".

 

But the subs usually do their own thing, when the starting 11 use the more central part, the 6 subs are usually closer to the sidelines, and would quite possibly have some interaction with their own fans who were close by. 

 

The goalkeepers use temporary goals to the side of the penalty box as well. The payer in question may have been having 'shots on the keeper' or he may even have been retrieving a ball from behind the pitch-side advertising screen. 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

4 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Indeed.  I would even be open to say sadly, it is not outwith the realms of possibility and of course it could be, I just do not see it however.  Would be disgusted and hugely disappointed if it is so right enough but ffs people with pitchforks out after our own fans, based on nothing but hear ‘say.  Disgraceful stuff.  I will always think more of us than a fan base to  always give the initial benefit of any doubt.

 

What an age we live in.  It goes a bit like this

 

1.        Accusation

2.       Post on Facebook, Twitter etc

3.       Goes ‘viral’

4.       The social media robots shake their head (no questions asked)

5.       Pitch forks out

6.       Careers ended

7.       Reputations ruined

8.       People show the world their virtue (when really this action is far from virtuous)

9.       Guilty? Who gives a ****

 

This shit is absolutely relentless. Even today there is yet again another ‘racism’ thread on here.  We need to create a new sub-forum.  The BBC is 24 hours a day on racial discrimination, gender equality, transgender. Islam.  I can only take so much – I really can.  I have almost excluded mainstream media out my life in its entirety and I come on here for some respite from the daily grind and this place is piling it on heavy more and more.

 

People shaking heads at people on this thread because they just so happen to not be a drone and actually question and rely on evidence then get called racist for doing so or being told you are not condemning it.  Condemning what? What is to condemn at this actual stage? A story? An accusation? Of course I ****ing condemn racism, I also condemn people acting on accusation without knowing the actual event or incident. 

 

I dare say I will get called a racist (or whatever one feels to call me to make them feel better) for not posting how much this is a disgrace and how this is not welcome at our club, ffs of course I feel that way, but at this stage (no actual proof) this is only self-serving.

 

Anyone looking from the outside in at this forum and at Budge’s round the clock statements would think we are the new Millwall or Luton ffs, get to **** with this shit – it is simply not the reality at HMFC. 

 

Yeah lol you’re dead right mate it really is relentless stuff, this place is getting worse too. 

The way people behave with social media now is horrific. All sharing and commenting and they don’t know barely a thing about what they’re actually enraged about but they want blood. It’s grown adults too ffs. Ban them and this, shut this down etc etc.

**** me  

[redm]

10 hours ago, JyTees said:

 

I think it's plausible they've mistaken the chant. 10-20 fans chanting we hate Kickback. It's not like they'd be expecting it. Certainly the Motherwell staff and players probably never even heard of Kickback. If you were a black man warming up a couple of yards away from section N it could quite easily be misconstrued. "We hate Kickback". The arrested party apparently accused of chanting "we hate the blacks".

 

Honestly think it's more plausible than 20 Hearts fans involving themselves in a racist chant.

 

Are you convinced it was prior to kick off? Even that doesn't make sense. The stands empty when the players are warming up.

 

Yep, and then filmed by Motherwell staff, which explains why they’ve all seen it but it’s not anywhere to be found on social media. 

 

Would also explain why Robinson was so damning of (and certain about) what he thought he’d seen. 

 

The explanation probably sounds completely batshit to anyone other than those who sing it and those of us who use the forum. 

[Taffin]

24 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Indeed.  I would even be open to say sadly, it is not outwith the realms of possibility and of course it could be, I just do not see it however.  Would be disgusted and hugely disappointed if it is so right enough but ffs people with pitchforks out after our own fans, based on nothing but hear ‘say.  Disgraceful stuff.  I will always think more of us than a fan base to  always give the initial benefit of any doubt.

 

What an age we live in.  It goes a bit like this

 

1.        Accusation

2.       Post on Facebook, Twitter etc

3.       Goes ‘viral’

4.       The social media robots shake their head (no questions asked)

5.       Pitch forks out

6.       Careers ended

7.       Reputations ruined

8.       People show the world their virtue (when really this action is far from virtuous)

9.       Guilty? Who gives a ****

 

This shit is absolutely relentless. Even today there is yet again another ‘racism’ thread on here.  We need to create a new sub-forum.  The BBC is 24 hours a day on racial discrimination, gender equality, transgender. Islam.  I can only take so much – I really can.  I have almost excluded mainstream media out my life in its entirety and I come on here for some respite from the daily grind and this place is piling it on heavy more and more.

 

People shaking heads at people on this thread because they just so happen to not be a drone and actually question and rely on evidence then get called racist for doing so or being told you are not condemning it.  Condemning what? What is to condemn at this actual stage? A story? An accusation? Of course I ****ing condemn racism, I also condemn people acting on accusation without knowing the actual event or incident. 

 

I dare say I will get called a racist (or whatever one feels to call me to make them feel better) for not posting how much this is a disgrace and how this is not welcome at our club, ffs of course I feel that way, but at this stage (no actual proof) this is only self-serving.

 

Anyone looking from the outside in at this forum and at Budge’s round the clock statements would think we are the new Millwall or Luton ffs, get to **** with this shit – it is simply not the reality at HMFC. 

 

 

 

Good post i8. ?

[Boof]

11 hours ago, JyTees said:

 

Exactly. The curve ball has been added by the alleged events taking place prior to ko. I've no idea if Frank's info is spot on or if there's been a wee bit Chinese whispers along the way, confusion added due to Mbulu warming up when it happened.

 

Just doesn't add up.

 

Careful, now. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Boof

[Phil Dunphy]

On a side note, it’s quite alarming to see that there are people planning to use HMFC as a platform to show how anti-fascist they are. 

 

Seemingly you you can use the club as a platform to promote a political ideology if you believe that ideology. 

 

[Taffin]

Just now, Phil Dunphy said:

On a side note, it’s quite alarming to see that there are people planning to use HMFC as a platform to show how anti-fascist they are. 

 

Seemingly you you can use the club as a platform to promote a political ideology if you believe that ideology. 

 

 

Is anti-fascist a political ideology? 

 

I'm not so sure. Surely you could be anti-fascist whilst being apolitical.

 

I get your point though, the club and a number of fans are very quick to be appalled by people airing their political views via the club when they don't suit but happy to do it in other scenarios.

 

We'd be best off if everyone just focused on the football. 

[XB52]

6 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

On a side note, it’s quite alarming to see that there are people planning to use HMFC as a platform to show how anti-fascist they are. 

 

Seemingly you you can use the club as a platform to promote a political ideology if you believe that ideology. 

 

What????  Now we are not allowed to be anti-fascist???? Who would object to that. Take it you protest when we take part in the 'show racism the red card' display??

Edited December 11, 2018 by XB52

[Phil Dunphy]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

Is anti-fascist a political ideology? 

 

I'm not so sure. Surely you could be anti-fascist whilst being apolitical.

 

I get your point though, the club and a number of fans are very quick to be appalled by people airing their political views via the club when they don't suit but happy to do it in other scenarios.

 

We'd be best off if everyone just focused on the football. 

 

As long as fascism remains on the political

spectrum, I’d argue that being anti-fascist belongs on there too. 

 

I openly applaud anyone who fights against fascism. It’s a cancer on this world and has no place in this century. 

 

But the football’s not the time or place. 

[Phil Dunphy]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

What????  Now we are not allowed to be anti-fascist???? Who would object to that. 

 

Please show me exactly where I said that. 

[fabienleclerq]

2 minutes ago, XB52 said:

What????  Now we are not allowed to be anti-fascist???? Who would object to that. 

 

Di canio....

[XB52]

2 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Please show me exactly where I said that. 

I give up.  

[Phil Dunphy]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

I give up.  

 

Yes, you should. 

 

You completely missed my point and have chucked your toys out the pram. 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

As long as fascism remains on the political

spectrum, I’d argue that being anti-fascist belongs on there too. 

 

I openly applaud anyone who fights against fascism. It’s a cancer on this world and has no place in this century. 

 

But the football’s not the time or place. 

 

Fair point. I guess I'm thinking more non-fascist rather than anti. Non could just sit in the middle, but yes anti fascist suggests the polarity.

 

Things like the below image do nothing to help our battle against the bigots though imo. It's another scenario where the club is saying 'Britain = good' before turning around and saying 'no union flags as Britain = bad'. 

 

The British armed forces played a pivotal role in creating the bigotry that exists in Scotland yet we align, support and partner with them when it suits but shun when it doesn't. Keep it away from football. It's hypocritical. We can't pick and choose which parts are okay at the football and it just adds fuel to the fire.

 

 

[i8hibsh]

Not sure if I am going to wear my anti rape or anti child abuse t-shirt to the next game.

 

FFS, what a planet this has become.  Seriously who actually feels that inadequate that they must tell people they object to racism or fascism?  

 

 

[Phil Dunphy]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

Fair point. I guess I'm thinking more non-fascist rather than anti. Non could just sit in the middle, but yes anti fascist suggests the polarity.

 

Things like the below image do nothing to help our battle against the bigots though imo. It's another scenario where the club is saying 'Britain = good' before turning around and saying 'no union flags as Britain = bad'. 

 

The British armed forces played a pivotal role in creating the bigotry that exists in Scotland yet we align, support and partner with them when it suits but shun when it doesn't. Keep it away from football. It's hypocritical. We can't pick and choose which parts are okay at the football and it just adds fuel to the fire.

 

 

 

There’s an argument to be made that, considering our club’s history with the military, that these kinds of things are understandable. But I do get your point, particularly around choosing which aspects of Britain are good or bad. 

 

I’d definitely consider myself anti-fascist, but I wouldn’t use the football to promote that. Not would I use the clubs name/image to make that point. 

 

Hearts are a politically neutral entity and some should be reminded of that. Whatever they believe. 

[Thomaso]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Fair point. I guess I'm thinking more non-fascist rather than anti. Non could just sit in the middle, but yes anti fascist suggests the polarity.

 

Things like the below image do nothing to help our battle against the bigots though imo. It's another scenario where the club is saying 'Britain = good' before turning around and saying 'no union flags as Britain = bad'. 

 

The British armed forces played a pivotal role in creating the bigotry that exists in Scotland yet we align, support and partner with them when it suits but shun when it doesn't. Keep it away from football. It's hypocritical. We can't pick and choose which parts are okay at the football and it just adds fuel to the fire.

 

 

 

I would hate to live in a world where we had no "British armed forces".

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

I would hate to live in a world where we had no "British armed forces".

 

 

And that has what to do with Hearts? A Scottish football team?

 

Your political standpoint that leads you to hate the idea of a world without British Forces is for you to hold. It's not for a football team to push on others.

 

Caveat - it's not for a football team who profess to be against people pushing political agendas via football to push on others. Some teams are quite happy to be politicised. In fact, I'd argue ours are too, just when it suits and when they sweep the unsavoury parts out of the way first.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Taffin

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

And that has to what to do with Hearts? A Scottish football team?

 

Your political standpoint that leads you to hate the idea of a world without British Forces is for you to hold. It's not for a football team to push on others.

 

A team based in Scotland that is protected by the British armed forces.

 

My believe that there would be devastating consequences if we had no armed forces is not political - it's based on the history of mankind!

 

Anyway all this is not for a football forum - pity you choose to bring it into the debate.

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 hours ago, Brauhauser2012 said:

If you know our history we were the first Scottish team to have a coloured professional player. 

" Coloured"....  what colour was he?  Blue ? Purple? Red?   

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

A team based in Scotland that is protected by the British armed forces.

 

My believe that there would be devastating consequences if we had no armed forces is not political - it's based on the history of mankind!

 

Anyway all this is not for a football forum - pity you choose to bring it into the debate.

 

It's relevant to the debate. It shouldn't be but it is. It has nothing to do with football, in the same way those pushing their far right agendas has nothing to do with football. Hearts should be cognizant of that and walk the walk in regards to politicizing the club rather than just talk the talk.

 

As for the bit in bold, that isn't factually true. There haven't been armed forces for the vast majority of humans existence. There weren't any devastating consequences.

[stan]

It's striking that the individual at Chelsea accused of racist abuse is openly identified in the papers in close up crowd shots. no mistaking who he is for friends, family and, probably ex-workmates. Never looks great for those around him either as there s implied guilt by association, however unfair that is. Snapshots in time can be entirely misleading but being pictured at the football with an angry face while shouting at someone is always going to count against you in public perception. Just surprised that the media would print that yesterday. Was in the Times which Is expect to be quite careful of legal action.

[brunoatemyhamster]

10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

" Coloured"....  what colour was he?  Blue ? Purple? Red?   

Red. Alan Mclaren. You must remember him.

[Thomaso]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

It's relevant to the debate. It shouldn't be but it is. It has nothing to do with football, in the same way those pushing their far right agendas has nothing to do with football. Hearts should be cognizant of that and walk the walk in regards to politicizing the club rather than just talk the talk.

 

As for the bit in bold, that isn't factually true. There haven't been armed forces for the vast majority of humans existence. There weren't any devastating consequences.

 

If it's nothing to do with football should it be part od a ebate on a football forum??

 

With regards to your comment "The vast majority of human existence"??????   Are you including when man's only weapons were swords and arrows?? 

 

We have been living in a far more dangerous world for a hundred years now.

[Hearts1975]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

And that has to what to do with Hearts? A Scottish football team?

 

Your political standpoint that leads you to hate the idea of a world without British Forces is for you to hold. It's not for a football team to push on others.

Just like Macraes battalion ?

 

hearts players died in the war along with many other players from other teams .. People and families included .. like it or not it's a part of who we are whether ur catholic Protestant or anything else - if u were born in the U.K. Ur British .. not recognising it is down to people's own individual opinion 

 

football shouldn't be used as a vehicle for political point scoring, 100%, but turning round and saying that the British army played a pivotal role in creating the bigotry in the first place is a ludicrous and stupid comment to make

 

. if something is used as a vehicle to promote extremist views then it's the idiots who drive it and not the vehicle itself that's the problem .. sooner we learn this the better 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah lol you’re dead right mate it really is relentless stuff, this place is getting worse too. 

The way people behave with social media now is horrific. All sharing and commenting and they don’t know barely a thing about what they’re actually enraged about but they want blood. It’s grown adults too ffs. Ban them and this, shut this down etc etc.

**** me  

I agree with some of your points.  Trial by social media is disgusting. No one ever seems to question postings on Facebook when someone makes an accusation about someone and then it goes viral without any real evidence. We live in a society where accusations  dont  need evidence as such and we are told to believe them. 

 

42 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Fair point. I guess I'm thinking more non-fascist rather than anti. Non could just sit in the middle, but yes anti fascist suggests the polarity.

 

Things like the below image do nothing to help our battle against the bigots though imo. It's another scenario where the club is saying 'Britain = good' before turning around and saying 'no union flags as Britain = bad'. 

 

The British armed forces played a pivotal role in creating the bigotry that exists in Scotland yet we align, support and partner with them when it suits but shun when it doesn't. Keep it away from football. It's hypocritical. We can't pick and choose which parts are okay at the football and it just adds fuel to the fire.

 

 

Excellent points. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by JamesM48

[stan]

11 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

" Coloured"....  what colour was he?  Blue ? Purple? Red?   

In fairness, the term people of colour is currently very acceptable and indeed fashionable - I'm not sure why there is a great distinction between the two. Both sound awkward to me.

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

Red. Alan Mclaren. You must remember him.

Yes I do actually.   I was pals with his sister when we were kids !

[brunoatemyhamster]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes I do actually.   I was pals with his sister when we were kids !

Was she red?

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

If it's nothing to do with football should it be part od a ebate on a football forum??

 

With regards to your comment "The vast majority of human existence"??????   Are you including when man's only weapons were swords and arrows?? 

 

We have been living in a far more dangerous world for a hundred years now.

 

 

No, it shouldn't be part of a debate on a football forum. I agree with you. But it is. I'm not the one sat at a table draped in military imagery using Hearts as political vehicle or taking union flags to Tynecastle singing about Tommy Robinson. Until it's not an issue, it will remain in the debate. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away isn't the answer. 

 

In regards to my comment I'm including the entirety of human existence. But that part really is off topic. So apologies I should have just left that alone.

[Thomaso]

9 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Just like Macraes battalion ?

 

hearts players died in the war along with many other players from other teams .. People and families included .. like it or not it's a part of who we are whether ur catholic Protestant or anything else - if u were born in the U.K. Ur British .. not recognising it is down to people's own individual opinion 

 

football shouldn't be used as a vehicle for political point scoring, 100%, but turning round and saying that the British army played a pivotal role in creating the bigotry in the first place is a ludicrous and stupid comment to make

 

. if something is used as a vehicle to promote extremist views then it's the idiots who drive it and not the vehicle itself that's the problem .. sooner we learn this the better 

 

Well said!

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

 

No, it shouldn't be part of a debate on a football forum. I agree with you. But it is. I'm not the one sat at a table draped in military imagery using Hearts as political vehicle or taking union flags to Tynecastle singing about Tommy Robinson. Until it's not an issue, it will remain in the debate. Ignoring it and hoping it goes away isn't the answer. 

 

In regards to my comment I'm including the entirety of human existence. But that part really is off topic. So apologies I should have just left that alone.

 

How about the "military imagery" standing in the concourse between the Roseburn and Wheatfield stands - would you like that torn down???

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 minutes ago, stan said:

In fairness, the term people of colour is currently very acceptable and indeed fashionable - I'm not sure why there is a great distinction between the two. Both sound awkward to me.

without sounding a politically correct boring fart " Black" is the accepted and respected expression ...it " people of colour" you mean?  But this can all change as it all invariably does !

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, brunoatemyhamster said:

Was she red?

actually IM not joking but she did have a red face...must run in the family 

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Just like Macraes battalion ?

 

hearts players died in the war along with many other players from other teams .. People and families included .. like it or not it's a part of who we are whether ur catholic Protestant or anything else - if u were born in the U.K. Ur British .. not recognising it is down to people's own individual opinion 

 

football shouldn't be used as a vehicle for political point scoring, 100%, but turning round and saying that the British army played a pivotal role in creating the bigotry in the first place is a ludicrous and stupid comment to make

 

. if something is used as a vehicle to promote extremist views then it's the idiots who drive it and not the vehicle itself that's the problem .. sooner we learn this the better 

 

 

It's true though. Can you honestly say the bigotry that ensues in Scotland was not born out of past conflicts where the British military played a major part?

 

As for your first part, I'm not disagreeing. The point I'm making is about hypocrisy, not who's right or wrong. We can't say some political things are okay to use our club for but others aren't.

[redm]

1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

As long as fascism remains on the political

spectrum, I’d argue that being anti-fascist belongs on there too. 

 

I openly applaud anyone who fights against fascism. It’s a cancer on this world and has no place in this century. 

 

But the football’s not the time or place. 

 

Hmmm. I dunno about this. Surely in any decent civilised society we're all really meant to be anti-facist? I think there's a big difference between taking a position against facism, when confronted by it. and belonging to the type of group associated with the Antifa term. Important to separate the two.

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

How about the "military imagery" standing in the concourse between the Roseburn and Wheatfield stands - would you like that torn down???

 

If the aim is be apolitical as club then yes. If it isn't, then no, but we should be accepting of others also using the club to push their politics.

 

The club is pro armed forces and that is their choice, but you can't then turn around and tell people not to take the union flag or sing about battles that very military took part in. It doesn't help the discourse.

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

If the aim is be apolitical as club then yes. If it isn't, then no, but we should be accepting of others also using the club to push their politics.

 

The club is pro armed forces and that is their choice, but you can't then turn around and tell people not to take the union flag or sing about battles that very military took part in. It doesn't help the discourse.

 

You are all over the place on this. You are the one on the political soapbox!

I support the armed forces, however I do not agree that songs about the Battle of the Boyne have a place a Tynecastle - your point is nonsense.

[Geoff the Mince]

10 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

How about the "military imagery" standing in the concourse between the Roseburn and Wheatfield stands - would you like that torn down???

Personally i don't think there was any need for the statue . 

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Personally i don't think there was any need for the statue . 

 

You are entitled to your opinion Geoff. I think this has been debated long and weary on a previous thread.

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

You are all over the place on this. You are the one on the political soapbox!

I support the armed forces, however I do not agree that songs about the Battle of the Boyne have a place a Tynecastle - your point is nonsense.

 

 

I also support the armed forces and agree that songs of that nature have no place at Tynecastle.

 

Where we don't agree, is that I don't think the club should actively show support for the armed forces as it's hypocritical. Fans should also not show support at Tynecastle as it has nothing to do with football.

 

You don't share that opinion. As is your right not to. It makes you a hypocrite but that's okay too.

[Thomaso]

Just now, Taffin said:

 

 

I also support the armed forces and agree that songs of that nature have no place at Tynecastle.

 

Where we don't agree, is that I don't think the club should actively show support for the armed forces as it's hypocritical. Fans should also not show support at Tynecastle as it has nothing to do with football.

 

You don't share that opinion. As is your right not to. It makes you a hypocrite but that's okay too.

 

Just when I thought we were having a sensible conversation...then you come out with that shite at the end.

 

Over and out.

[jack D and coke]

Taffin is absolutely bang on here Hearts are baw deep in this military thing. Almost feels a bit overplayed at times. If it was Hibs I’d probably have plenty to say. 

[Phil Dunphy]

4 minutes ago, redm said:

 

Hmmm. I dunno about this. Surely in any decent civilised society we're all really meant to be anti-facist? I think there's a big difference between taking a position against facism, when confronted by it. and belonging to the type of group associated with the Antifa term. Important to separate the two.

 

I’m vehemently opposed to fascism, much in the same that I’m opposed to the genocide in Royhinga. 

 

But I’m not going to create a group called “Hearts Fans Against Genocide”, because it’s nothing to do with football. There are plenty ways to go about combating the rise of the extreme far right, but using Hearts to do it? Nah, not for me.