Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, i8hibsh said: Fantastic post. What I like about you (and there is not much) is you quantify all your accusations. Your posts on this thread are all the quantification required ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, redm said: How do you know that? It is absolutely constant redm. She will have outsiders believe we come to the games in SS uniforms, it is simply not the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 12 hours ago, i8hibsh said: It is certainly bizarre which is looking like why this has all happened. The Motherwell player was warming up infront of section N and he hears fans sing and point to no-one in particular "Stand up if you hate kickback". He thinks they are pointing to him and singing "the black". He is none the wiser as it is not a recognisable chant. Like without doubt not once will that ever have been heard in the world at a game not involving Hearts. It is kinda like when Hearts fans put their hands up as they sing and people see it as Nazi salutes when it is compleely innocent. I REALLY hope this is all an innocent misunderstanding where unfortunately there has been collateral damage on our side. So these 2 guys (and possibly another 18 or so) are guilty of one of two things: 1. Racist chanting or 2. Appalling diction. In my mind, you couldn't put a cigarette paper between the two in terms of heinousness. String 'em up and hang 'em high. 4 hours ago, EastSideJambo said: Maybe the Chelsea fans were singing about Kickback.... Looked like it was to do with a "Kickback Hunt." It's difficult to argue against - there's been a few of them on this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, To Be Frank said: The incident happened before the match and the arrests were also made pre-match which is why most people won’t have seen or heard anything. No it didn't. The arrests were made just before full time. Happened right in front of me. I can also confirm I did not hear any racist songs. Did hear them sing about Tommy Robinson though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: The club have done the right thing in banning them while due process plays out. However, I'd like to hope that if they hadn't done anything wrong that the club will allow them to return. The club don't need to do hysterical things like some on here have called for, like shutting Section N! Indeed , I don’t think the section will be shut but if the inappropriate behaviour continues lower N may get closed for a period. Right now we are under so much scrutiny its damaging to the club and the club may have to be seen to be taking a hardline. Very much agree they have done the right thing for now though. Driving me nuts the number of people on this thread who can’t understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said: You thinking along the lines of compulsory sterilisation? No thats a bit too right wing for my liking but it is a delicious thought though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, Currahee! said: No it didn't. The arrests were made just before full time. Happened right in front of me. I can also confirm I did not hear any racist songs. Did hear them sing about Tommy Robinson though. Ah, I meant to mention that. What was that all about? Was he there? It actually sounded like it was the Motherwell fans singing "Tommy Tommy Tommy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Currahee! said: No it didn't. The arrests were made just before full time. Happened right in front of me. I can also confirm I did not hear any racist songs. Did hear them sing about Tommy Robinson though. The incident relating to the arrests definitely happened before the match and police and stewards were also involved at that point, as were several Motherwell players. I assumed the arrests were also made at that point but it isn’t clear from what I’ve read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Not being a moron I prefer to judge on a word called 'conviction'. Jesus christ mate ???? So in your opinion whilst there is a police investigation and charges handed out the individuals should be told na its cool come back to Tynie. If you repeat the alleged behaviour its alright aswell. Meantime the press and authorities are going awwww check how Hearts are behaving thats sweet as that they are ignoring alleged behaviour and letting the fans come back until the legal process completes. We won’t see that as encouraging the alleged behaviour at all and we will commend Hearts for saying its ok if our charged fans have allegedly been racist..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: It is absolutely constant redm. She will have outsiders believe we come to the games in SS uniforms, it is simply not the reality. I don't believe she thinks that at all. I don't pretend to live inside her head, but she wouldn't be around if she thought that of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastSideJambo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: No thats a bit too right wing for my liking but it is a delicious thought though Sounds like you could be tempted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Ah, I meant to mention that. What was that all about? Was he there? It actually sounded like it was the Motherwell fans singing "Tommy Tommy Tommy". No he wasn't there. They've sung about him in the last few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 28 minutes ago, JamesM48 said: My view is that these " young lads" are looking for an identity and a sense of belonging to " something". Its your classic adolescence identity stage . They are feeding each others egos and bravado by belonging to this group and gaining acceptance and kudos. I dont mind the " we hate kickback " chant as they are petulant children angry and relaying against their their parents ( more sensible and non racist / sectarian fans) so will do anything to annoy them. and get a reaction. Some will grow out of it but unfortunately since most are probably heterosexual they will breed and the cycle will continue. The good news is it is a minority Like others I just cant understand the racist element to it all as we have had and have some great black players. Stupid morons really with hardly a brain cell between any of them. Maybe it's rebelling against parents, maybe not. I tend to believe it's more about gaining acceptance from a small group of groomers in the crowd, the likes of Uncle Therapist, in the hope that maybe one day they can get to "buff his Porsche" or pick the dead leaves out of his "pool". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: sorry,I'm not a "traditional" fan- though by that you mean loyalist or racist. I do however believe in justice and fairness, and despite sec N being, admittedly, full of morons, I personally will wait for EVIDENCE before throwing anyone under a bus. I would wish that for me, and I would extend the same courtesy to anyone. There is a difference between acting appropriately and throwing people under the bus though. So many on this thread are confusing the two. As has been repeated several times the fans have to be banned indefinately meantime. Should the due process then show innocence the club have a decision to make. Is it fair , probably not , but is it the right route for the club to go down , Undoubtably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, EastSideJambo said: Sounds like you could be tempted... Yeah but where would it end ...? thats the problem with eugenics ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: The incident relating to the arrests definitely happened before the match and police and stewards were also involved at that point, as were several Motherwell players. I assumed the arrests were also made at that point but it isn’t clear from what I’ve read. Inside the stadium or outside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, I P Knightley said: Maybe it's rebelling against parents, maybe not. I tend to believe it's more about gaining acceptance from a small group of groomers in the crowd, the likes of Uncle Therapist, in the hope that maybe one day they can get to "buff his Porsche" or pick the dead leaves out of his "pool". " parents" was an analogy...I meant the " older " guys in their group... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, Currahee! said: Inside the stadium or outside? Inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: You seem to spend a lot of your JKB posting time calling people idiots. Genuinely can barely recall a post where you did not accuse someone of being stupid. To me ‘stupidity’ is hearing an accusation and going tut tut, making an assumption based on another person’s word and not wanting to learn facts. I think you're stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Looks like a good number of posters are ready with feeble excuses for Section N. Best that you can say about that lot is that they are not supporters of the club with most using their attendance to gesture and shout abuse to opposing supporters. Excuses after excuse is made for them . They won't change, don't want to change and think it's acceptable to spend their afternoons screaming vile abuse. The plain fact is that they have already brought the good name of a proud club into disrepute. The club should close the section now, ban them all for life, give them refunds so they can pay for bus to Ibrox and let the rest of the decent support get on with thier lives. Hearts are too good a club to have sectarian racists like that as support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 16 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: It is absolutely constant redm. She will have outsiders believe we come to the games in SS uniforms, it is simply not the reality. Accusations and assumptions without hearing the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elshin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, To Be Frank said: Inside There was definatly an incident before the game started and stewards in thr section speaking to fans. At least 1 person was also removed by police near the end of the game, i assumed this arrest related to the alleged racist incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastSideJambo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 19 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: It is absolutely constant redm. She will have outsiders believe we come to the games in SS uniforms, it is simply not the reality. You're having a nightmare mate. Have a sandwich for your lunch. Maybe a glass of milk. Rest your eyes for a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: Inside Well these guys came into the stadium after me and I never saw or heard a thing. They're 2 rows in front of me so I hear it all. They are certainly no angels but I genuinely never heard anything racist from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, Currahee! said: No he wasn't there. They've sung about him in the last few games. Section N? I swear I thought it was the Well fans I guess that is how hard it is to hear and make out stuff when amongst 18,000 fans - even in Budge's library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Currahee! said: Well these guys came into the stadium after me and I never saw or heard a thing. They're 2 rows in front of me so I hear it all. They are certainly no angels but I genuinely never heard anything racist from them. The two guys arrested during the game sit two rows in front of you? That ties in with my interpretation that these weren’t the same guys charged with the incident before the match. Edited December 10, 2018 by To Be Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, Prof said: Looks like a good number of posters are ready with feeble excuses for Section N. Best that you can say about that lot is that they are not supporters of the club with most using their attendance to gesture and shout abuse to opposing supporters. Excuses after excuse is made for them . They won't change, don't want to change and think it's acceptable to spend their afternoons screaming vile abuse. The plain fact is that they have already brought the good name of a proud club into disrepute. The club should close the section now, ban them all for life, give them refunds so they can pay for bus to Ibrox and let the rest of the decent support get on with thier lives. Hearts are too good a club to have sectarian racists like that as support. Shut the whole of section N because of alleged racist comments by someone? Get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, Prof said: Looks like a good number of posters are ready with feeble excuses for Section N. Best that you can say about that lot is that they are not supporters of the club with most using their attendance to gesture and shout abuse to opposing supporters. Excuses after excuse is made for them . They won't change, don't want to change and think it's acceptable to spend their afternoons screaming vile abuse. The plain fact is that they have already brought the good name of a proud club into disrepute. The club should close the section now, ban them all for life, give them refunds so they can pay for bus to Ibrox and let the rest of the decent support get on with thier lives. Hearts are too good a club to have sectarian racists like that as support. You can't beat a good bit of prejudice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, I P Knightley said: Maybe it's rebelling against parents, maybe not. I tend to believe it's more about gaining acceptance from a small group of groomers in the crowd, the likes of Uncle Therapist, in the hope that maybe one day they can get to "buff his Porsche" or pick the dead leaves out of his "pool". There's a Michael Barrymore joke in there somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, i8hibsh said: Section N? I swear I thought it was the Well fans I guess that is how hard it is to hear and make out stuff when amongst 18,000 fans - even in Budge's library. Aye. I'm in Lower 2 rows behind the guys who got lifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, Currahee! said: Shut the whole of section N because of alleged racist comments by someone? Get a grip. As utterly wrong and ridiculous as wanting to shut down a mosque because a couple of worshipers were up to no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, To Be Frank said: The two guys arrested sit two rows in front of you? Stand 2 rows in front of me but yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 The “close the section N” chat is horrific and unhelpful. I know a number of people from that section and none of them are racists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, Currahee! said: Aye. I'm in Lower 2 rows behind the guys who got lifted. You are clearly a racist then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 10 minutes ago, sadj said: There is a difference between acting appropriately and throwing people under the bus though. So many on this thread are confusing the two. As has been repeated several times the fans have to be banned indefinately meantime. Should the due process then show innocence the club have a decision to make. Is it fair , probably not , but is it the right route for the club to go down , Undoubtably. Surely you suspend them? A simple statement of the likes "they have been suspended pending investigation, with the outcome of a lifetime ban coming into force if we see evidence that this has been committed?" No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, i8hibsh said: As utterly wrong and ridiculous as wanting to shut down a mosque because a couple of worshipers were up to no good. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, i8hibsh said: You are clearly a racist then. :Laugh: Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, doctor jambo said: Surely you suspend them? A simple statement of the likes "they have been suspended pending investigation, with the outcome of a lifetime ban coming into force if we see evidence that this has been committed?" No? The wording was an “indefinite” ban thats the same thing surely..... I also think our current situation to word it as you have above would be seen by many including authorities as not looking at it as a potentially serious incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, To Be Frank said: The “close the section N” chat is horrific and unhelpful. I know a number of people from that section and none of them are racists. Yip. Why don't we shut down Kickback because of idiocy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Surely you suspend them? A simple statement of the likes "they have been suspended pending investigation, with the outcome of a lifetime ban coming into force if we see evidence that this has been committed?" No? Unless the evidence you’ve seen is so cut and dry that a lifetime ban is obvious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Boab said: Yip. Why don't we shut down Kickback because of idiocy Because it keeps I8 from being set loose on the public ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, Boab said: Yip. Why don't we shut down Kickback because of idiocy Exactly. Why tar us all with the same brush as i8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, sadj said: Because it keeps I8 from being set loose on the public ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: Unless the evidence you’ve seen is so cut and dry that a lifetime ban is obvious? The club is lucky that it can ban anyone it wants for as long as it wants, based on as little as it wants. I would fully support lifetime bans if the club sees the evidence there to justify it- regardless of the outcomes of the legal case where the threshold is higher. balance of probabilities vs beyond reasonable doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Sorry if this has been asked previously - who took the video?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: The club is lucky that it can ban anyone it wants for as long as it wants, based on as little as it wants. I would fully support lifetime bans if the club sees the evidence there to justify it- regardless of the outcomes of the legal case where the threshold is higher. balance of probabilities vs beyond reasonable doubt There was a sufficiency of evidence to allow police to charge the individuals so I’d think that’s more than enough for the club to put an indefinite ban in place. There can be a number of reasons why a conviction isn’t later obtained but the club have done the only thing they can in this situation having seen the video and the police statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Thomaso said: Sorry if this has been asked previously - who took the video?? From what I gather (and of course it is all conjecture) is Motherwell stewards in their end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 31 minutes ago, Oliver Twist said: It's a shame if any racism was heard by the player and hopefully it won't impact on him much and cloud his judgement about the vast majority of Hearts supporters that just go along with family and friends to enjoy the football. Absoulutely spot on. 31 minutes ago, Oliver Twist said: It's also a shame that everybody on here is not condemning the actions of these idiots first and foremost. If they are found guilty you won't find anybody on here who won't condem their actions. 32 minutes ago, Oliver Twist said: Then again a very large amount of posters on here cannot control their emotions and temper their abuse towards our own players at the best if times on here so why should I be shocked when supporters can't show a little bit of respect for everyone around them at live matches. What constitutes controlled emotions is entirely subjective. Where football is concerned especially so. 33 minutes ago, Oliver Twist said: Sadly we're not a very classy group of supporters. There is no such thing as a classy group of supporters. Anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, i8hibsh said: From what I gather (and of course it is all conjecture) is Motherwell stewards in their end. Motherwell had Stewards at the game? If they were in the away end how close were they to the incident? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 I think the fact we saved out club from dying and now contribute £2.5 million per year to the club shows a certain amount of class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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