Statement from Budge

[number witheld]

1 minute ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

The whole thing has become pathetic. 

By all means look at sectarianism. 

By all means hammer people who throw objects.

But yet again it's all about poor wee Lennon. 

Aye but we cannae control the narrative the media run with. Though I would say zlamal would had had more media coverage if it weren’t for Lennon/coin

[MacDonald Jardine]

1 minute ago, livingstonjambo said:

probably because that guy has been arrested and the club cant comment on an ongoing police investigation

No but they could comment on the hail of missiles which followed.

[SUTOL]

Just now, Notts1874 said:

Unless you chucked the coin Dave? Seems it may have come from the posh seats?

 

No it didn't, the roof of the dugout would mean the coin (or similar object) would hit it before the target.

 

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I actually think most of our support can appreciate nuance, i.e. they agree with the steps she has outlined on our support whilst still wanting equanimity to be applied to visiting supporters.

 

Where does it say it doesn't apply to visiting supporters? She talks about all supporters in the stadium. The one bit I could see that specifically only addressed Hearts fans related to banning people for life. I assume that's easier with home fans as we control who the tickets are sold to. Edit: that was her saying any Hearts fan damaging an away stadium would be banned from Tynecastle. So to me that statement applies to everyone in the stadium?

Edited November 9, 2018 by Guest

[number witheld]

1 minute ago, El Diez said:

 

I care about our players being assaulted and our stadium being damaged.

 

There are a couple of songs when Celtic visit that I don’t want to listen to either.

 

Point being, Mrs Budge’s concern should be the welfare and behaviour of every player, supporter, official and employee inside Tynecastle. 

 

Today’s statement has proven it isn’t. 

 

 

Aye but do you understand that we can’t go having a go when we don’t have our own house in order. I don’t think our CEO should be coming out with whataboutery 

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, KingRudi_2012 said:

Research who made the most money from the stand and you might achieve some clairty as to her involvement.

 You said individuals profited to the tune of several million. 

I'm not researching shit, man up and admit you're talking utter shite in a desperate attempt to land a shot on Ann Budge.

[MacDonald Jardine]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Quelle suprise.   I hope you profited well from your time off.

I did thanks. 

I'm actually surprised I'm posting so regularly again but it's somewhat addictive. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

The whole thing has become pathetic. 

By all means look at sectarianism. 

By all means hammer people who throw objects.

But yet again it's all about poor wee Lennon. 

 

We can never control what the OF-biased media write, so we shouldn't get angry about it either. We have to just set our own agenda and fight our corner at every opportunity.

 

I don't think Lennon is going to last much longer at Hibs anyway. He looks as if he is rapidly getting to the stage of having had enough.

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

That's wimping out though to say it is "too hard" to police away fans. It basically sends out a signal that mob rule wins.

I would describe it more as 'harder' than 'too hard'. We would need to get the other clubs on side as we can't easily control the sale of tickets. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, pharmaceutical01 said:

Absolutely spot on. We need to get rid before we can comment/crackdown on any away support from the uglies 

I think people are entitled to whatever political beliefs they want to hold. The point is that they become irrelevant at the turnstile.

[Doc Rob]

1 minute ago, KingRudi_2012 said:

Our club is under attack from the media and our owner has weighed in to have a go. Contrast that to Hibs whose fans behaviour was worse on the night and they have somehow ended up being portrayed as the victims.

 

Why do you think the media focused on the Lennon incident rather than the Zlamal one? Because of the halfwit who attacked Lennon at Tynecastle before. Yes, Lennon made a big meal of it, but thanks to that guy he has a free pass to behave how he likes at Tynie. Don’t blame AB for that - blame the idiot who established the precedent.

 

I really do wonder what on Earth you think AB should have done here. The club were at the centre of a media storm. How would it have played if she had come out in defence of the Hearts support? The media would have crucified her. Not only has she done the right thing, she has done the only thing she could have done to maintain any credibility. Silence would have been taken for cowardice, and she is no coward.

[KingRudi_2012]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 You said individuals profited to the tune of several million. 

I'm not researching shit, man up and admit you're talking utter shite in a desperate attempt to land a shot on Ann Budge.

I do not want to derail this thread with new stand chat. I hope that is okay with you ?

[livingstonjambo]

3 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

No but they could comment on the hail of missiles which followed.

Im pretty sure the joint statement covered that

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

I would describe it more as 'harder' than 'too hard'. We would need to get the other clubs on side as we can't easily control the sale of tickets. 

Not really. We can insist on names and addresses per seat if we have to. Otherwise, no tickets.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Just now, redjambo said:

 

We can never control what the OF-biased media write, so we shouldn't get angry about it either. We have to just set our own agenda and fight our corner at every opportunity.

 

I don't think Lennon is going to last much longer at Hibs anyway. He looks as if he is rapidly getting to the stage of having had enough.

That's fine but our agenda should be acknowledge our own failings but not let others away with theirs.

I accept that could become a tit for tat but we should at least acknowledge our fans and particularly players suffer too.

[El Diez]

Just now, number witheld said:

Aye but do you understand that we can’t go having a go when we don’t have our own house in order. I don’t think our CEO should be coming out with whataboutery 

 

No, I clearly don’t.

 

?‍♂️

[SUTOL]

Just now, KingRudi_2012 said:

I do not want to derail this thread with new stand chat. I hope that is okay with you ?

 

Since you brought it up, why not start a new thread then? 

 

Or just back up your lies.

[luckydug]

Lets just not offer OF and Hibs any tickets unless they take responsibility for making sure their supporters adhere to the stadium rules and regulations.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, KingRudi_2012 said:

I do not want to derail this thread with new stand chat. I hope that is okay with you ?

You don't want to admit you made a **** of yourself by talking shite, let's be honest ?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, luckydug said:

Lets just not offer OF and Hibs any tickets unless they take responsibility for making sure their supporters adhere to the stadium rules and regulations.

Bingo.

[obua]

2 minutes ago, KingRudi_2012 said:

I do not want to derail this thread with new stand chat. I hope that is okay with you ?

Your the one who started it but if you want to retract all your accusations that’s cool.

[KingRudi_2012]

Just now, luckydug said:

Lets just not offer OF and Hibs any tickets unless they take responsibility for making sure their supporters adhere to the stadium rules and regulations.

Exactly. Budge will not do that though as standing and sectarianism is okay as long as it does not come from Hearts fans. 

[davemclaren]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Not really. We can insist on names and addresses per seat if we have to. Otherwise, no tickets.

Not sure SPFL rules allow that. A few years ago we tried selling away tickets direct but not sure if that is still possible. 

[El Diez]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

Lets just not offer OF and Hibs any tickets unless they take responsibility for making sure their supporters adhere to the stadium rules and regulations.

 

Responsibility for what?

 

Knowing the answer to that would be a start.

 

As I said, an opportunity missed in today’s statement.

 

Why? I’ll never know.

Edited November 9, 2018 by El Diez

[livingstonjambo]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

Lets just not offer OF and Hibs any tickets unless they take responsibility for making sure their supporters adhere to the stadium rules and regulations.

already do that, any damage in the roseburn end gets paid by them

[MacDonald Jardine]

2 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

 

Why do you think the media focused on the Lennon incident rather than the Zlamal one? Because of the halfwit who attacked Lennon at Tynecastle before. Yes, Lennon made a big meal of it, but thanks to that guy he has a free pass to behave how he likes at Tynie. Don’t blame AB for that - blame the idiot who established the precedent.

 

I really do wonder what on Earth you think AB should have done here. The club were at the centre of a media storm. How would it have played if she had come out in defence of the Hearts support? The media would have crucified her. Not only has she done the right thing, she has done the only thing she could have done to maintain any credibility. Silence would have been taken for cowardice, and she is no coward.

She could have made the point it was one person in a crowd of thousands. 

I'll never condone anyone throwing objects at anyone but if I'd been the Hibs manager that night and behaved that way I'd have been surprised only one coin was thrown. 

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

That's fine but our agenda should be acknowledge our own failings but not let others away with theirs.

I accept that could become a tit for tat but we should at least acknowledge our fans and particularly players suffer too.

 

I suspect and hope that clamping down on away fans is part of the overall plan, but that the club decided not to go there yet to avoid claims of "whataboutery". Once we clean up our own side though, we'll be in a great position to say to the clubs of visiting supporters "These are the rules. Our fans are abiding by them and we have banned fans who didn't. In our stadium your fans will abide by them too, and you will help us to achieve that, or we will be cutting your allocation accordingly." Or words to that effect.

Edited November 9, 2018 by redjambo

[JALBO]

On a lighter note, or maybe not, I wonder if Hearts should consider changing the cover photo on their Twitter page. Encouraging us to snap up half season tickets and using an image of Hearts fans standing and singing seems contradictory. 

[KingRudi_2012]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

She is taking measures against a minority in our support who are adversely affecting the club with their antisocial behaviour.

 

But you knew that.

 

You're doing very well by the way. If I were a mod I would have launched you a long while ago, but here you still are. Impressive trolling.

Her statement paints our support in a light that is not reflective of the reality of what actually goes on at games.

[livingstonjambo]

Just now, KingRudi_2012 said:

Exactly. Budge will not do that though as standing and sectarianism is okay as long as it does not come from Hearts fans. 

you are talking pish yet again, any damage in the roseburn end is charged to the away team, that is fact. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

42 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

As is "The club don't like it so argument over" attitude of others.

With that position 15 odd years ago we'd now be at Murrayfield. 

 

I retract my previous post now it's clear "follow the rules that have been in place for years, please" is the same as "we plan to kill the club, cheery bye".

 

[KingRudi_2012]

8 minutes ago, Barack said:

I think you should highlight your concerns & your friend's, to the relevant oversight authorities.

 

 

Sounds like Vlad all over again, imo.

 

 

Also, when Thomaso reads this, he should PM you to find out the name of your mates company. Considering the vast contract his company had on the Stand, he'll have no doubt have knowledge of the company, or...even worked hand in hand on the project.

I would rather not. It has nothing to do with me.

[MacDonald Jardine]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Not sure SPFL rules allow that. A few years ago we tried selling away tickets direct but not sure if that is still possible. 

Was that not because we refused to pay the charges they wanted to levy?

IIRC their supports were even summer at that time because the idiots banned by their clubs could buy tickets. 

[Uche Gang]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Not sure SPFL rules allow that. A few years ago we tried selling away tickets direct but not sure if that is still possible. 

 

Motherwell sold them direct to us at the last match at Fir Park.

[Notts1874]

9 minutes ago, SUTOL said:

 

No it didn't, the roof of the dugout would mean the coin (or similar object) would hit it before the target.

 

 

Unless there was a wee bit of spin put on it???

[Jodami]

3 minutes ago, El Diez said:

 

I care about our players being assaulted and our stadium being damaged.

 

There are a couple of songs when Celtic visit that I don’t want to listen to either.

 

Point being, Mrs Budge’s concern should be the welfare and behaviour of every player, supporter, official and employee inside Tynecastle. 

 

Today’s statement has proven it isn’t. 

 

 

There are a whole host of songs I don't want to hear when the beggars and Sevco come to town. The issue is its difficult to call out their behaviour if there's a perception we have our own problems that we are ignoring. If we clear up the nonsense in our own support then it would be fantastic to hear the club publicly highlighting the sectarian bile spewed by away fans. That should be a logical next step. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Not sure SPFL rules allow that. A few years ago we tried selling away tickets direct but not sure if that is still possible. 

So you're arguing that we don't have the right to know who is coming into our stadium, yet we didn't sell Murrayfield tickets to people who weren't on our database? Hmmm.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Uche Gang said:

 

Motherwell sold them direct to us at the last match at Fir Park.

True. But how would you prove identity. 

[John Findlay]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Not sure SPFL rules allow that. A few years ago we tried selling away tickets direct but not sure if that is still possible. 

Don't Motherwell do that at present?

[MacDonald Jardine]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I suspect and hope that clamping down on away fans is part of the overall plan, but that the club decided not to go there yet to avoid claims of "whataboutery". Once we clean up our own side though, we'll be in a great position to say to the clubs of visiting supporters "These are the rules. Our fans are abiding by them and we have banned fans who didn't. In our stadium your fans will abide by them too, and you will help us to achieve that, or we will be cutting your allocation accordingly." Or words to those effect.

I kind of get that but realistically you'll never clean up a football crowd to the point where everything is beyond criticism. 

Who decides when we're clean enough to ask questions about others,

 

[number witheld]

1 minute ago, Jodami said:

There are a whole host of songs I don't want to hear when the beggars and Sevco come to town. The issue is its difficult to call out their behaviour if there's a perception we have our own problems that we are ignoring. If we clear up the nonsense in our own support then it would be fantastic to hear the club publicly highlighting the sectarian bile spewed by away fans. That should be a logical next step. 

Exactly this. 

[KingRudi_2012]

8 minutes ago, Doc Rob said:

 

Why do you think the media focused on the Lennon incident rather than the Zlamal one? Because of the halfwit who attacked Lennon at Tynecastle before. Yes, Lennon made a big meal of it, but thanks to that guy he has a free pass to behave how he likes at Tynie. Don’t blame AB for that - blame the idiot who established the precedent.

 

I really do wonder what on Earth you think AB should have done here. The club were at the centre of a media storm. How would it have played if she had come out in defence of the Hearts support? The media would have crucified her. Not only has she done the right thing, she has done the only thing she could have done to maintain any credibility. Silence would have been taken for cowardice, and she is no coward.

The media focussed on us as it had a sectarian slant as brought up by Lennon. It was a convenient attempt to deflect away from the sectarianism of the OF. 

 

Coins are thrown from fans at clubs across the country and are never met with this reaction.

 

I could not care less what the media say. You realise Hearts doing well sticks it right up the Weegie media as they cannot stand us. Pandering to them is futile as they will only like us when we are rubbish and of no threat to the OF.

[obua]

3 minutes ago, KingRudi_2012 said:

I would rather not. It has nothing to do with me.

You probably should have taken this stance a bit earlier before you started digging.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So you're arguing that we don't have the right to know who is coming into our stadium, yet we didn't sell Murrayfield tickets to people who weren't on our database? Hmmm.

Typically we provide tickets to the other clubs and rely on them to filter out their needs. If we sold direct we wouldn't know who their neds were, which was a problem when we did it a while back. 

[number witheld]

2 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

I kind of get that but realistically you'll never clean up a football crowd to the point where everything is beyond criticism. 

Who decides when we're clean enough to ask questions about others,

 

I dunno what that point is but is doesn’t come after someone has hit Lennon with a coin

Edited November 9, 2018 by number witheld

[MacDonald Jardine]

Just now, KingRudi_2012 said:

The media focussed on us as it had a sectarian slant as brought up by Lennon. It was a convenient attempt to deflect away from the sectarianism of the OF. 

 

Coins are thrown from fans at clubs across the country and are never met with this reaction.

 

I could not care less what the media say. You realise Hearts doing well sticks it right up the Weegie media as they cannot stand us. Pandering to them is futile as they will only like us when we are rubbish and of no threat to the OF.

Quite. But apparently the answer is for us to be whiter than white .

[scott herbertson]

5 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So you're arguing that we don't have the right to know who is coming into our stadium, yet we didn't sell Murrayfield tickets to people who weren't on our database? Hmmm.

 

 

I think we hand over that right when we agree the allocation - the visiting club is responsible for the behaviour of their fans - within the limitation that there  is no strict liability.

 

The answer at the moment would be to either change the stadium rules and threaten to restrict the allocation - but that would be double edged if we couldn't enforce these rules on our own, or to make the allocation contingent on agreement to work with the police and CCTV to identify offenders and ban them from all grounds (but that would need the GFA to join in , fat chance)

Edited November 9, 2018 by scott herbertson

[KingRudi_2012]

4 minutes ago, livingstonjambo said:

you are talking pish yet again, any damage in the roseburn end is charged to the away team, that is fact. 

Are away teams charged for standing and sectarianism? Or advocations of ethnic cleansing such as 'Get the Brits out now'.

[Doc Rob]

9 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

That's wimping out though to say it is "too hard" to police away fans. It basically sends out a signal that mob rule wins.

 

It’s not wimping out. It’s being pragmatic. The club can’t start by taking on 3500 poisonous Celtic or Sevco fans. Not only would it be an enormous task, imagine the howls of outrage from the Glasgow-centric media that we chose to go after away fans, after all the recent coverage of our own bad behaviour. We would be accused of the worst kind of whataboutery. It wouldn’t be fair, but it would happen nonetheless.

 

The problem in the Hearts end is a manageable one. If we start by dealing with that, and show that we mean business and make a success of it, then we will be in a relatively strong position to tackle the away end. For practical reasons, though, it would be best to start by saying we will cut allocations if unacceptable behaviour continues, then by actually cutting the allocations, and then by throwing people out.

 

The one thing that probably is enforceable would be a flag ban throughout the stadium, merely because it’s easy to identify the people with the flags.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, davemclaren said:

Typically we provide tickets to the other clubs and rely on them to filter out their needs. If we sold direct we wouldn't know who their neds were, which was a problem when we did it a while back. 

Of course. Amazing that there is no discernible difference in levels of neddish behaviour in that case. At least in the former case, we know who they are.

 

Still, if the visiting team refuse to cooperate then they get no tickets. Simple as that.