Tommy Robinson

[Unknown user]

While no one's saying all Muslims are bad, there's a definite islam=bad rhetoric, not just from one poster on this thread

[Governor Tarkin]

43 minutes ago, felix said:

Whilst this is all true (and Bin Laden confirmed as much before 9/11) ..it's the brotherhood of Islam that comes under combined attack when any of the above occurs  - so it's daft imo to say religion isn't even mainly involved.  You could say it's the thread that holds together, those who react to the  above..

 

I mostly agree with this, in fact I tried to edit my post to say as much but I'm at sea with shitty internet and didn't get to it in time. ?

 

Islam is a handy banner and recruiting tool for any number of disparate agendas looking to put a rent-a-mob in the field who will do anything for the cause. Not least because of the poverty and disaffection which exists in many diasporic Muslim communities.

[felix]

8 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Islam is a handy banner and recruiting tool for any number of disparate agendas looking to put a rent-a-mob in the field who will do anything for the cause. Not least because of the poverty and disaffection which exists in many diasporic Muslim communities.

Agreed. - and the sad irony is,  the diaspora behind the poverty and disaffection of previously wealthy and fairly stable states, starts with the actions of the white "Christian" west - resulting in the non-religious reasons for religious terrorism you mentioned:- - "political meddling" (Iraq) "regime change" (Iraq/Syria) and "occupation" (Palestine).

 

 

[MacDonald Jardine]

35 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

It's also useful to deal with facts rather than blind assumptions when making an argument.

It's not a blind assumption. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

14 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said:

It's not a blind assumption. 

Then what is it based on if you are unsure of figures?

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

o

No it doesn’t and not even sure why we are going back and forth. We agree on this subject! I think your massively missing the bigger picture.

 

Your thinking seems to locked by your own perception and bias if I’m being honest, probably a bit like TR. You say no one is saying he doesn’t have a point but in the exact same post saying his point should be dismissed because in your eyes he’s a racist?!?! 

 

Saying he only turns up a muslims events. So ****ing what, that’s weird argument. We have people who campaign against only child abuse, whilst not all sexual abuse? Does that mean they don’t care about sexual abuse? Off course not.

 

People/group choose to campaign on certain issues that are important to them for  all manners of reasons. 

 

Yout argument is akin to saying Esther Ransen doesn’t care about sexual abuse against anyone other children as only campaigns. Also do you genuinely believe he thinks child molestation or terrorism are acceptable if perpetuated by white people. Genuinely?

 

The point is blighted by the racist because you can’t seperate an argument from the man. I can give you Muslims who will make similar argument to TR to be honest. I would recommend Maajid Nawar, gives a interesting perspective even if I don’t nevessarily agree with it.

 

Anyway, as I said we agree and are pretty much saying same thing so this is the last time I will go back and forth with you on this thread. I just don’t think anything to be gained from it.

 

FTR I’ll give you my opinion on TR. He’s a racist prick, who primary driver isn’t betterment or addressing issues but his own personal ego drive. He isn’t in this to stamp out a problem but to promote his own agenda make a bit of money. If people think he’s a ‘good guy’ I would be worried about their mental state.

 

However, doesn’t change the validity of some of his arguments. 

 

Anyway take it easy and peace out.

I can get on board and understand if not agree with the majority of this, however the highlighted portion is very pertinent. It's not a weird argument at all. He chooses these ''events'' to further his agenda which is fueled by hate and division. 

[Governor Tarkin]

58 minutes ago, Smithee said:

While no one's saying all Muslims are bad, there's a definite islam=bad rhetoric, not just from one poster on this thread

 

Based on recent events it's an easy conclusion to jump to tbh, although seriously flawed would be a more apt description than simply 'bad'.

 

In that regard Islam is far from alone.

[MacDonald Jardine]

30 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

Then what is it based on if you are unsure of figures?

It's based on the stated opinions of a number of members of grooming gangs and what has come out at various trials as to who knew what and when, or how open these things were.

The fact it can't be definitively quantified doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

You acknowledged as much in a previous post when you pointed out this wasn't confined to the Muslim community. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

Just now, MacDonald Jardine said:

It's based on the stated opinions of a number of members of grooming gangs and what has come out at various trials as to who knew what and when, or how open these things were.

The fact it can't be definitively quantified doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

You acknowledged as much in a previous post when you pointed out this wasn't confined to the Muslim community. 

Oh don't listen to me, my heads up my arse most of the time.

[MacDonald Jardine]

7 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

Oh don't listen to me, my heads up my arse most of the time.

Fair point ?

[Governor Tarkin]

9 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

most of the time.

 

 

?

[Bridge of Djoum]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

?

Hey!

[niblick1874]

6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

 

Hes a bit of a wank but that doesn’t make everything he says wrong. He’s grown up in a totally different place to what we know so it’s easy to dismiss him as simply a racist. His speech at oxford university highlights a lot of the life he saw around him. I can’t help but be impressed at how brave he is, he’s got enormous cajones for doing what he does and he keeps going despite the threats and harassment. 

I think jailing Tommy has been a spectacular OG tbh it’s got him worldwide headlines. 

 

 

The first thing I came across when I typed in Tommy Robinson was his speech at Oxford university and as you say, it puts a different prospective on things that some would rather see brushed under the carpet for whatever reason. There are more than one or two on here doing just that in a nasty and aggressive manner.

 

Go look for the Oxford University speech. You will find out more about why he is doing what he is doing.

 

The idea that some pretend hard men on here will not recognise or purposely deny his bravery in doing what he is doing gives me the boke. Again, go ask the parents of the children. I will go with those that have had their lives utterly destroyed by those that Tommy Robinson has, and is, putting himself up against when it comes to making my mind up.

 

Maybe some on this thread should watch what I post below and rethink their vitriolic attacks on those that can't help themselves but to put themselves in others shoos when it comes to the likes of this (the mothers and fathers of the children, I can not clame to begin to imagine what the children have gone threw). I will not go into other aspects that stink the place out concerning the handling of everything to do with this as I don't have a spare couple of years but for **** ****, you can't miss them, well, I can't.

 

Tommy Robinson saw what was happening and has put his life in the line to try and do something about it because he could do nothing other that what he did and is doing because that's the way he is as well as being a very brave man. One look at this thread is all you need to see as to why he knows he can not let up. 

 

I know who the brave are in all of this and I am nowhere near the only one that knows this.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

Hiya Nibs.

Hiya pal.

[Governor Tarkin]

DP ?

Edited June 2, 2018 by Governor Tarkin

[shaun.lawson]

5 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

You say no one is saying he doesn’t have a point but in the exact same post saying his point should be dismissed because in your eyes he’s a racist?!?! 

 

Saying he only turns up a muslims events. So ****ing what, that’s weird argument. We have people who campaign against only child abuse, whilst not all sexual abuse? Does that mean they don’t care about sexual abuse? Off course not...

 

... FTR I’ll give you my opinion on TR. He’s a racist prick

 

Confused.com. 

[Unknown user]

5 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I agree with this. But is that all that different from your perspective that Christianity/religion is bad? 

 

Thats not a dig and please do not take as one :-)

Well there's bad and there's bad I suppose. I do see religions as basically a bad thing, while still being able to appreciate that most of them can bring positivity to many of their adherents. I don't think the teachings of any of the main religions can be described as overall bad in themselves, they all seem to stand for basically positive concepts, but the churches over the centuries are another story, using religion as a means to control the population. 

I get that there was a time when some would argue that this was necessary but in this day and age I'd be happy for churches to die away, for their influence to dwindle.

 

The position being put forward by the lunatic fringes isn't really that islam = bad in this way, more that this particular religion is almost inherently evil. Which is obviously ridiculously simplistic bullshit. 

[Governor Tarkin]

16 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

Then there's Indonesia. Or Malaysia. Or Tunisia. Or Morocco. Or Jordan: in Amman, women might wear tight minidresses or be covered up; alcohol is on sale on stores, except during Ramadan; food is available for non-Muslims during Ramadan; women drive, vote and hold political office (as they do in Kuwait too); there are plenty of bars and nightclubs; laws are based on civil law, not Sharia law.

 

Have you been to Jordan, Shaun?

 

I've spent time in three of those countries. As a young man working in the holiday resorts of the Spanish Coata del Crime I would make frequent trips to Tangier and sometimes onwards to the Rif Mountains to acquire the local exotic tobacco. The Moroccans living is Spain gave their countryfolk a bit of a bad name but on their own patch they were smashing people. 

 

As a slightly less young man my hippy backpacker travels took to me to Malaysia for a stretch. Again, smashing people, but a bit more conservative towards the east of the country.

 

And last year Mrs Governor and I took a month out for a road trip around Jordan. Pick of the bunch for me. Stunning country, amazingly rich history, diverse population, and incredibly welcoming and hospitable people. Their tourist industry has taken a hammering of late with all of the bother on their borders so they really appreciate folk making the effort to get over there and get off of the beaten track. 

 

Being a stereotypical Jock I boozed my way across all three of the above countries with little difficulty and without anyone batting an eyelid. I've even managed a few pints in Lahore and Islamabad. Seems to me that folks are just folks making the best of the circumstances they find themselves in largely by accident of birth. The only problem I ever had with Islam and Muslims was the early morning call to prayer waking me up as the hangover was kicking in. 

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by Governor Tarkin
Sorry for spamming up the thread with pish. Should have sent this post as a PM

[cosanostra]

12 hours ago, New York Fleapit said:

 

Dylann Roof

Stephen Paddock

Devin Kelley

James Holmes

Adam Lanza

Timothy McVeigh

Michael Ryan

Thomas Hamilton

Eric Harris

Dylan Klebold...

 

We could continue.

 

 

Were the above actually Christians or just white males raised in a formerly Christian country?

[Bridge of Djoum]

24 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

 

Were the above actually Christians or just white males raised in a formerly Christian country?

I know McVeigh was quite religious.  The rest I'm not sure of.

[Bridge of Djoum]

4 hours ago, niblick1874 said:

 

 

The first thing I came across when I typed in Tommy Robinson was his speech at Oxford university and as you say, it puts a different prospective on things that some would rather see brushed under the carpet for whatever reason. There are more than one or two on here doing just that in a nasty and aggressive manner.

 

Go look for the Oxford University speech. You will find out more about why he is doing what he is doing.

 

The idea that some pretend hard men on here will not recognise or purposely deny his bravery in doing what he is doing gives me the boke. Again, go ask the parents of the children. I will go with those that have had their lives utterly destroyed by those that Tommy Robinson has, and is, putting himself up against when it comes to making my mind up.

 

Maybe some on this thread should watch what I post below and rethink their vitriolic attacks on those that can't help themselves but to put themselves in others shoos when it comes to the likes of this (the mothers and fathers of the children, I can not clame to begin to imagine what the children have gone threw). I will not go into other aspects that stink the place out concerning the handling of everything to do with this as I don't have a spare couple of years but for **** ****, you can't miss them, well, I can't.

 

Tommy Robinson saw what was happening and has put his life in the line to try and do something about it because he could do nothing other that what he did and is doing because that's the way he is as well as being a very brave man. One look at this thread is all you need to see as to why he knows he can not let up. 

 

I know who the brave are in all of this and I am nowhere near the only one that knows this.

 

 

Jesus H.

 

 

[felix]

4 hours ago, New York Fleapit said:

I know McVeigh was quite religious.  The rest I'm not sure of.

McVeigh was agnostic.

The answer to Cosa's question was  no.  The gun-toting list you compiled have no religious affinity.

They were gun obsessed white people, who happened to be raised in "Christian " countries. As I remember, religion played zero part in their crimes.

Not even thoughts of an afterlife.

 

[shaun.lawson]

26 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

 

I have posted this a few times, on JKB, and I always felt it demonstrates quite well the clash of cultures between Islam and Western values.

 

 

 

Certainly an interesting video, but it's flawed on several grounds.

 

1. As a general rule, extremists never view themselves as extremists - but simply as representing "the truth". The speaker and panelists are extremists; and at face value, so are most of the audience.

 

2. At all political or religious conferences, which groups of people are most likely to attend? Extremists - or at least, those who believe passionately in the speakers and their message. Does that make the attendees representative though? Nope.

 

3. Imagine if anyone in the audience disagreed. Would they have felt free to raise their hand? No. Because that video is a classic example of groupthink in action. Even on something as trite as this forum, posters who don't follow the herd are accused every single day of apostasy: that is to say, of being Hibs fans. Now ratchet that up many many times in a religious setting. Fear - of being judged, cast out, or simply of not fitting in - will have prevented any naysayers from speaking up.

 

I've seen that phenomenon occur in many different environments. In political parties, in clubs, in offices, in classrooms, among football supports... and at religious congregations. Including a Christian one in 2004. I was invited by my friend, a born-again Christian, who was shortly to become a reverend. It was an Alpha Project meeting, attended by around 5000. And at the end, as the main speaker invited anyone interested in converting to come forward, I watched appalled as, after a short period of everyone looking around in hesitation, the first person to walk forward triggered many others doing the same. People who, in my view, felt pressure to conform, and were not acting entirely of their own free will.

 

Bluntly, this video does not demonstrate a clash of cultures between Islam and Western values at all. It does demonstrate a massive clash of cultures between extremist interpretations of religion and pluralism; and between groupthink and pluralism. It's far more interesting as a psychological study of group behaviour than anything else IMO. 

 

If there really was a clash of cultures between Islam and the West, that so many peaceable Muslims have assimilated into Western cultures and hold Western values could never have happened. But it has. The problem is not Islam. The problem is extremism, of any form.

Edited June 3, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[shaun.lawson]

In 2005, Der Spiegel published an interview with Jordanian journalist, Fouad Hussein: probably the world's then leading authority on al-Qaida given the access he'd had to its leaders. Hussein set out exactly what al-Qaida's long term plan was - with terrifying prescience.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/the-future-of-terrorism-what-al-qaida-really-wants-a-369448.html

 

- The First Phase: Known as "the awakening" -- this has already been carried out and was supposed to have lasted from 2000 to 2003, or more precisely from the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 in New York and Washington to the fall of Baghdad in 2003. The aim of the attacks of 9/11 was to provoke the US into declaring war on the Islamic world and thereby "awakening" Muslims. "The first phase was judged by the strategists and masterminds behind al-Qaida as very successful," writes Hussein. "The battle field was opened up and the Americans and their allies became a closer and easier target." The terrorist network is also reported as being satisfied that its message can now be heard "everywhere."

- The Second Phase: "Opening Eyes" is, according to Hussein's definition, the period we are now in and should last until 2006. Hussein says the terrorists hope to make the western conspiracy aware of the "Islamic community." Hussein believes this is a phase in which al-Qaida wants an organization to develop into a movement. The network is banking on recruiting young men during this period. Iraq should become the center for all global operations, with an "army" set up there and bases established in other Arabic states.

- The Third Phase: This is described as "Arising and Standing Up" and should last from 2007 to 2010. "There will be a focus on Syria," prophesies Hussein, based on what his sources told him. The fighting cadres are supposedly already prepared and some are in Iraq. Attacks on Turkey and -- even more explosive -- in Israel are predicted. Al-Qaida's masterminds hope that attacks on Israel will help the terrorist group become a recognized organization. The author also believes that countries neighboring Iraq, such as Jordan, are also in danger.

- The Fourth Phase: Between 2010 and 2013, Hussein writes that al-Qaida will aim to bring about the collapse of the hated Arabic governments. The estimate is that "the creeping loss of the regimes' power will lead to a steady growth in strength within al-Qaida." At the same time attacks will be carried out against oil suppliers and the US economy will be targeted using cyber terrorism.

- The Fifth Phase: This will be the point at which an Islamic state, or caliphate, can be declared. The plan is that by this time, between 2013 and 2016, Western influence in the Islamic world will be so reduced and Israel weakened so much, that resistance will not be feared. Al-Qaida hopes that by then the Islamic state will be able to bring about a new world order.

- The Sixth Phase: Hussein believes that from 2016 onwards there will a period of "total confrontation." As soon as the caliphate has been declared the "Islamic army" it will instigate the "fight between the believers and the non-believers" which has so often been predicted by Osama bin Laden.

- The Seventh Phase: This final stage is described as "definitive victory." Hussein writes that in the terrorists' eyes, because the rest of the world will be so beaten down by the "one-and-a-half billion Muslims," the caliphate will undoubtedly succeed. This phase should be completed by 2020, although the war shouldn't last longer than two years.

 

The plan above achieved frightening levels of success until 2014/15. But it's failed. It's failed because all Western leaders except Trump have never fallen into the trap set us by Islamist terrorists; because of the brilliant work of Western and Muslim intelligence agencies; because Israel has proven far more resilient than prophecised by al-Qaida; and because the colossal majority of Muslims worldwide reject al-Qaida and ISIS absolutely. That is to say: the global Muslim community itself has stopped our worst nightmares coming to pass. They're just not the walking Fifth Column they're so often viewed as.

Edited June 3, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Bridge of Djoum]

4 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Certainly an interesting video, but it's flawed on several grounds.

 

1. As a general rule, extremists never view themselves as extremists - but simply as representing "the truth". The speaker and panelists are extremists; and at face value, so are most of the audience.

 

2. At all political or religious conferences, which groups of people are most likely to attend? Extremists - or at least, those who believe passionately in the speakers and their message. Does that make the attendees representative though? Nope.

 

3. Imagine if anyone in the audience disagreed. Would they have felt free to raise their hand? No. Because that video is a classic example of groupthink in action. Even on something as trite as this forum, posters who don't follow the herd are accused every single day of apostasy: that is to say, of being Hibs fans. Now ratchet that up many many times in a religious setting. Fear - of being judged, cast out, or simply of not fitting in - will have prevented any naysayers from speaking up.

 

I've seen that phenomenon occur in many different environments. In political parties, in clubs, in offices, in classrooms, among football supports... and at religious congregations. Including a Christian one in 2004. I was invited by my friend, a born-again Christian, who was shortly to become a reverend. It was an Alpha Project meeting, attended by around 5000. And at the end, as the main speaker invited anyone interested in converting to come forward, I watched appalled as, after a short period of everyone looking around in hesitation, the first person to walk forward triggered many others doing the same. People who, in my view, felt pressure to conform, and were not acting entirely of their own free will.

 

Bluntly, this video does not demonstrate a clash of cultures between Islam and Western values at all. It does demonstrate a massive clash of cultures between extremist interpretations of religion and pluralism; and between groupthink and pluralism. It's far more interesting as a psychological study of group behaviour than anything else IMO. 

 

If there really was a clash of cultures between Islam and the West, that so many peaceable Muslims have assimilated into Western cultures and hold Western values could never have happened. But it has. The problem is not Islam. The problem is extremism, of any form.

This is the reasoned persons opinion. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

5 hours ago, felix said:

McVeigh was agnostic.

The answer to Cosa's question was  no.  The gun-toting list you compiled have no religious affinity.

They were gun obsessed white people, who happened to be raised in "Christian " countries. As I remember, religion played zero part in their crimes.

Not even thoughts of an afterlife.

 

No he wasn't! Just where do you get your info from?

 

From Time magazine...

 

Time: Are you religious?

 

McVeigh: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.

 

Time: Do you believe in God?

 

McVeigh: I do believe in a God, yes. But that's as far as I want to discuss. If I get too detailed on some things that are personal like that, it gives people an easier way [to] alienate themselves from me and that's all they are looking for now.

 

Ok, not a religious ''nut'' but to maintain ''core beliefs'' is maintaining a sense of your religious education. In no way whatsoever was he ''agnostic''.

[Bridge of Djoum]

5 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

 

 

I have posted this a few times, on JKB, and I always felt it demonstrates quite well the clash of cultures between Islam and Western values.

 

 

Ah. Now I get it.

 

So the peacable, friendly Muslims I have met in my lifetime, (every single one I have met) have been lying to me and harbor fantasies of my grizzly demise. I have spent considerable time in the Middle East and since moving to the States have met many more. Among the friendliest, nicest people I have encountered. 

 

I fear it's pointless conversing with you as you appear desperate to portray Islam in a bad light. Your rush to generalize 1.5bn people across the planet says a great deal about you.

[Bridge of Djoum]

5 hours ago, felix said:

McVeigh was agnostic.

The answer to Cosa's question was  no.  The gun-toting list you compiled have no religious affinity.

They were gun obsessed white people, who happened to be raised in "Christian " countries. As I remember, religion played zero part in their crimes.

Not even thoughts of an afterlife.

 

And at no point did I claim or compile that list to suggest they were religious. 

[JackLadd]

14 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

This is the reasoned persons opinion. 

 

That view whitewashes Islam and is therefore just as evil as the Jihadis who are taking Islam seriously and following its commands. Does Islam condone slavery, rape, murder and the like? Yes it does. People like Lawson whitewashing Islam just serves to advance the immoral nightmare that teaches that Mohammed and his slaving, beheading, raping equate to the perfect man. There is no equivocation in Islam - it commands and demands submission and Jihad! The penalty being death for apostasy and in many countries blasphemy also. There is only one ideology that motivates people to rape, murder and enslave across the globe - Islam (principally Sunni Islam). You know this. I know this. Anyone paying any attention knows it. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

That view whitewashes Islam and is therefore just as evil as the Jihadis who are taking Islam seriously and following its commands. Does Islam condone slavery, rape, murder and the like? Yes it does. People like Lawson whitewashing Islam just serves to advance the immoral nightmare that teaches that Mohammed and his slaving, beheading, raping equate to the perfect man. There is no equivocation in Islam - it commands and demands submission and Jihad! The penalty being death for apostasy and in many countries blasphemy also. There is only one ideology that motivates people to rape, murder and enslave across the globe - Islam (principally Sunni Islam). You know this. I know this. Anyone paying any attention knows it. 

So all Muslims believe this, yes?

 

You re coming across as seriously mis-informed and wholly bigoted.

Edited June 3, 2018 by New York Fleapit

[JackLadd]

5 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

So all Muslims believe this, yes?

 

You re coming across as seriously mis-informed and wholly bigoted.

 

All Muslims that take Islam completely seriously believe it of course. The whitewashers (like you) and cherry pickers within Islam are in denial as the body count and crimes run rampant.

Edited June 3, 2018 by JackLadd

[Bridge of Djoum]

Just now, JackLadd said:

 

All Muslims that take Islam completely seriously believe it of course. The whitewashers (like you) and cherry pickers within Islam are in denial as the body count and crimes run rampant.

You need to travel the world, kiddo. Spend time with people different than yourself. Your views are so narrow and hateful.

 

Done wasting any more of this lovely Sunday on you. 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

So all Muslims believe this, yes?

 

You re coming across as seriously mis-informed and wholly bigoted.

Fond of all statistics except the one that shows 2,770,000 quiet living, law abiding Muslims living in the uk.

 

Islam is inherently bad and incompatible with western ways yet less than 0.5% of them are in jail?

 

Hate fueled bollocks, **** that guy

[JackLadd]

1 minute ago, New York Fleapit said:

You need to travel the world, kiddo. Spend time with people different than yourself. Your views are so narrow and hateful.

 

Done wasting any more of this lovely Sunday on you. 

 

 

Oh really? I am 50. Have travelled the world many times. Visited a number of Muslim countries and Israel. The ugliness is not mine. I merely hold up the mirror to Islam. As I've said previously here there are several apostate writers who say exactly what I do. People who were forced to memorise the entire text. The punishment for blasphemy/apostasy is death. Salman Rushdie still in hiding since 1989. You see nothing wrong though. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

Oh really? I am 50. Have travelled the world many times. Visited a number of Muslim countries and Israel. The ugliness is not mine. I merely hold up the mirror to Islam. As I've said previously here there are several apostate writers who say exactly what I do. People who were forced to memorise the entire text. The punishment for blasphemy/apostasy is death. Salman Rushdie still in hiding since 1989. You see nothing wrong though. 

THAT'S EXTREMISM!!!

 

Jesus Christ, man. 

You're 50 and hold these views? 

Many times were you killed or beheaded on your visits to the Middle East?

Edited June 3, 2018 by New York Fleapit

[felix]

53 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

No he wasn't! Just where do you get your info from?

.......

 In no way whatsoever was he ''agnostic''.

I got my information from Timothy McVeigh's letter to the Buffalo News, describing himself as agnostic !

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/11/mcveigh.usa4

 

Your using the same argument  the Nation of Islam's Louis Farrakhan tried -  that The Oklahoma bomber was a Christian terrorist.

He wasn't.

[JackLadd]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Fond of all statistics except the one that shows 2,770,000 quiet living, law abiding Muslims living in the uk.

 

 

 

 

Of course they are for the most living peacefully. They don't have the numbers to ferment an Islamic revolution and assert Sharia (yet). We saw the Trevor Phillips doc. 'what UK Muslims really think.'. A minority would report a terrorist to authorities. Over half said homosexuality should be illegal.  40% want Sharia law. Phillips called it a nation within a nation. These are Muslims that take Islam seriously. I also take it seriously and the threat. Whitewahers and appeasers clearly do not take Islam seriously. and definitely have made no inquiry into it save their natural instinct to deny and deflect. Dhimmitude they call it.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, felix said:

I got my information from Timothy McVeigh's letter to the Buffalo News, describing himself as agnostic !

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/11/mcveigh.usa4

 

Your using the same argument  the Nation of Islam's Louis Farrakhan tried -  that The Oklahoma bomber was a Christian terrorist.

He wasn't.

Interestingly he had also previously said that he was raised Catholic and still maintained core beliefs. He even requested and received last rites before his execution. I think this picture isn't as clear as either side would like. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

1 minute ago, felix said:

I got my information from Timothy McVeigh's letter to the Buffalo News, describing himself as agnostic !

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/11/mcveigh.usa4

 

Your using the same argument  the Nation of Islam's Louis Farrakhan tried -  that The Oklahoma bomber was a Christian terrorist.

He wasn't.

OK. 3rd and final time. 

 

I am in no way claiming Timothy McVeigh committed his crime as an act of religious terrorism. He had a very deep and unhealthy hatred of the Federal Government. 

The list I compiled was to show that for every atrocity committed by an ''Islamic'', there have been those committed by non-Islamics. 

 

Terrorism is terrorism and It's goals are the same, whoever commits it, in whatever guise, for whatever reason.

 

Terrorism is rarely about religion, but it is disguised inside it. 

These kids that commit these acts in the name of Islam have been brainwashed into believing they are doing it to defend their faith, or to harm another. It's not. As already stated by @smithee I believe, power, money, control, land. These among others are principal reasons. Islam is the excuse but these are the reasons.

 

No one here is defending terrorism or white-washing or being an apologist. They are simply trying to demonstrate that peaceful Muslims do not believe in islam in it's entirety, and the overwhelming majority do not agree with or support or condone radical Islam.

Unless of course you think that in Mosques across the planet, they are all sitting chanting 'Death to America'' rather than praying for health and peace. 

 

 

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

 

Of course they are for the most living peacefully. They don't have the numbers to ferment an Islamic revolution and assert Sharia (yet). We saw the Trevor Phillips doc. 'what UK Muslims really think.'. A minority would report a terrorist to authorities. Over half said homosexuality should be illegal.  40% want Sharia law. Phillips called it a nation within a nation. These are Muslims that take Islam seriously. I also take it seriously and the threat. Whitewahers and appeasers clearly do not take Islam seriously. and definitely have made no inquiry into it save their natural instinct to deny and deflect. Dhimmitude they call it.

This doesn't even need rebuttal, I'll just leave it there

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Interestingly he had also previously said that he was raised Catholic and still maintained core beliefs. He even requested and received last rites before his execution. I think this picture isn't as clear as either side would like. 

So what you are saying is either side can find quotes and stats to back up their arguments?

 

[Bridge of Djoum]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

This doesn't even need rebuttal, I'll just leave it there

It's almost like he is reading from a NF or EDL pamphlet.

[felix]

Just now, Smithee said:

Interestingly he had also previously said that he was raised Catholic and still maintained core beliefs. He even requested and received last rites before his execution. I think this picture isn't as clear as either side would like. 

Whichever way you cut it - Timothy McVeigh's target, motivation and crime had nothing to do with religious belief..

Zilch.

The same can be said for all the others on NY Fleapit's hit list.

 

The point attempted to be made (I think) is that there's Christian terrorists too.

Of course there is.

They're just not on the list of gun assassins which appeared earlier.

[Bridge of Djoum]

28 minutes ago, felix said:

Whichever way you cut it - Timothy McVeigh's target, motivation and crime had nothing to do with religious belief..

Zilch.

The same can be said for all the others on NY Fleapit's hit list.

 

The point attempted to be made (I think) is that there's Christian terrorists too.

Of course there is.

They're just not on the list of gun assassins which appeared earlier.

I NEVER CLAIMED THEY DID!!!!

 

Sakes man, give it up.

[Governor Tarkin]

Can we not just kill all the Muslims and be done with it? 

Logistically tricky but it would be some kind of 'solution'.

 

 

[JackLadd]

1 hour ago, New York Fleapit said:

It's almost like he is reading from a NF or EDL pamphlet.

 

 

I know your instinct is to deny and deflect like all programmed by left leaning principles (I was too at one point) but you do so on the basis of ignorance. I suggest you avail yourself of these titles. Apostates are always the best source of truth on Islam and it's inherent and inbuilt evil. Until you read these (and others) effectively all you are doing is enjoying the sound of the call to prayer (like that dhimmi Tarkin) without understanding a word of it's odious content.  Note there are no edl pamphlets. These Muslim writers give it to you straight. Come back when you've read. Will require your head to come out the sand. 

 

   

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2018 by JackLadd

[Bridge of Djoum]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Can we not just kill all the Muslims and be done with it? 

Logistically tricky but it would be some kind of 'solution'.

 

 

A final solution?

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

enjoying the sound of the call to prayer (like that dhimmi Tarkin).

 

I didn't say I enjoyed the sound of the call to prayer m9.

 

[JackLadd]

6 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

Can we not just kill all the Muslims and be done with it? 

Logistically tricky but it would be some kind of 'solution'.

 

 

 

Islam is the problem, not the people. 

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

A final solution?

 

Aye, at least until we find someone else to hate.