Boris Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I found this a very good article, but then I am biased, no doubt. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/31/tommy-robinson-freedom-of-speech-far-right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Clearly the overcrowding we hear about in prisons isn't an issue anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 27 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: All world issues are not his concern and he makes no claims to the contrary. He is a commentator for free speech, anti- Islamisation and mass immigration. I am sure he feels as strongly as us all about child rape as a whole but that is not his angle. Does any journalist cover every single event? Tommy Robinson is your Dawkins, isn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Lord BJ said: I agree with the headline and a few other things. But is a bit hypocritical in area’s, whilt there a couple things that are said that are not true. Whilst is vastly over simplifying a pretty complicated and a bit hyperbolic in parts with little balance and I do feel it conflates issues. Though I can get why you like though Though I’m really not a fan of Jones writing mainly as he just seems to peddle a single narratives which he tries to shoe horn every issue into. Whilst, he loves to label people! Anyway on the Tommy Robinson, guy I pretty much find myself agreeing with you on the subject. I'm not a huge fan of Jone's either and agree with your comment rgeards labelling! Over all though, I do think his heart is in the right place. Out of interest, what wasn't true? Regards TR, I think (hope!) that most people would agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 25 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Tommy Robinson is your Dawkins, isn't he? No, Dawkins is my Dawkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said: Can't disagree with what he has to say about the way these investigations into grooming gangs have, or haven't, happened. But that doesn't make TR some sort of hero, if anything the fact some would portray him as such is another failing of the authorities by not reacting properly and timeously to these terrible events. As a slight segue, I wonder what the reaction would have been had those accused of these crimes been let off on a technicality due to the trial being abandoned due to TR's actions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, Boris said: Can't disagree with what he has to say about the way these investigations into grooming gangs have, or haven't, happened. But that doesn't make TR some sort of hero, if anything the fact some would portray him as such is another failing of the authorities by not reacting properly and timeously to these terrible events. As a slight segue, I wonder what the reaction would have been had those accused of these crimes been let off on a technicality due to the trial being abandoned due to TR's actions? I think it probably is more about as to why there are Tommy Robinson type figures, why he is now legitimate in many peoples eyes. It really has been an absolute cover up and if the kids abused had been anything other than white then the cover up would not have happened. That's the issue for many. Also he completely destroys the belief that paedophilia is no more a problem within the muslim community than in any other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Islam is a diabolical teaching. The best sources for this are apostates who have rejected it. Islamic State was the purest form of Islam, a state built on terror and rape that modelled itself entirely on the life of the prophet as written in the Quran and Hadiths and promised heavenly rewards for killing. Its atrocities justified by verses or surahs and posted online for the world to see. Apologists will tell you Islam also has benign peaceful content but this is no more than cherry picking. You leave it and the sentence is death. To the faithful it is the unarguable, unaltered and final word of God - warts and all - in essence an arrogant invitation to violence. So, Robinson is not really the problem. He is just pointing to the elephant in the room. An elephant that is nation building as Trevor Phillips succinctly put it and one that represents an existential threat as Christopher Hitchens laid out. Liberals not on the front line like Robinson is in Luton or elsewhere where Sharia is creeping its way into crime ridden no go zones. Yes there is a problem and we should be looking at banning the forcible veiling of woman like the French and others have as a first step and prohibiting, licensing and monitoring mosques and mosque building. If we don't then let the virus keep mutating unchecked as the population doubles every decade. But Tommy is a nasty little racist. Let's just jail him and stick our heads in the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 11 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said: This be of interest to those keen on figures and sources; https://fullfact.org/crime/what-do-we-know-about-ethnicity-people-involved-sexual-offences-against-children/ That's interesting and offers a detailed narrative to go with the various available stats, which is handy. This stuff is so far from straightforward. I often wish the same amount of energy went in to discussing and debating sexual crimes (in a more general sense) as goes into focusing on very specific cases in very specific areas involving a very narrow demographic. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on here in which people get outraged about the fact that men commit a massive massive percentage of sexual crimes in the UK, for example. Almost all of the crimes actually, according to the available statistics. Nobody talks about their skin colour (predominantly white), their culture or their religion or describes it as an "existential problem", or talks about how much these crimes cost the NHS, or laments the fact that nobody seems able to talk about it openly, or goes through a religious book looking for lines that justify criminal sexual behaviour or sympathises with victims for being unheard or unsupported, or mentions their suffering at the hands of the criminal justice system or a million other things. Sexual crimes are far from being a issue specific to any one community. You could almost forgive any readers from being far from convinced that the victims (men, women, girls, boys, infants) of these crimes are the motivation for the discussion in the first place - the way in which this particular issue is discussed is noticeably different. It often reads as just another strand of an anti-Muslim agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, JackLadd said: Islam is a diabolical teaching. The best sources for this are apostates who have rejected it. Islamic State was the purest form of Islam, a state built on terror and rape that modelled itself entirely on the life of the prophet as written in the Quran and Hadiths and promised heavenly rewards for killing. Its atrocities justified by verses or surahs and posted online for the world to see. Apologists will tell you Islam also has benign peaceful content but this is no more than cherry picking. You leave it and the sentence is death. To the faithful it is the unarguable, unaltered and final word of God - warts and all - in essence an arrogant invitation to violence. So, Robinson is not really the problem. He is just pointing to the elephant in the room. An elephant that is nation building as Trevor Phillips succinctly put it and one that represents an existential threat as Christopher Hitchens laid out. Liberals not on the front line like Robinson is in Luton or elsewhere where Sharia is creeping its way into crime ridden no go zones. Yes there is a problem and we should be looking at banning the forcible veiling of woman like the French and others have as a first step and prohibiting, licensing and monitoring mosques and mosque building. If we don't then let the virus keep mutating unchecked as the population doubles every decade. But Tommy is a nasty little racist. Let's just jail him and stick our heads in the sand. So going by that, all muslims are bad and a threat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 15 minutes ago, JackLadd said: Islam is a diabolical teaching. The best sources for this are apostates who have rejected it. Islamic State was the purest form of Islam, a state built on terror and rape that modelled itself entirely on the life of the prophet as written in the Quran and Hadiths and promised heavenly rewards for killing. Its atrocities justified by verses or surahs and posted online for the world to see. Apologists will tell you Islam also has benign peaceful content but this is no more than cherry picking. You leave it and the sentence is death. To the faithful it is the unarguable, unaltered and final word of God - warts and all - in essence an arrogant invitation to violence. So, Robinson is not really the problem. He is just pointing to the elephant in the room. An elephant that is nation building as Trevor Phillips succinctly put it and one that represents an existential threat as Christopher Hitchens laid out. Liberals not on the front line like Robinson is in Luton or elsewhere where Sharia is creeping its way into crime ridden no go zones. Yes there is a problem and we should be looking at banning the forcible veiling of woman like the French and others have as a first step and prohibiting, licensing and monitoring mosques and mosque building. If we don't then let the virus keep mutating unchecked as the population doubles every decade. But Tommy is a nasty little racist. Let's just jail him and stick our heads in the sand. You should be on some sort of watchlist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Boris said: So going by that, all muslims are bad and a threat? Are you saying that all Muslims believe the exact same thing? Do all Christians believe the exact same interpretation of the Bible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 17 minutes ago, JackLadd said: Islam is a diabolical teaching. The best sources for this are apostates who have rejected it. Islamic State was the purest form of Islam, a state built on terror and rape that modelled itself entirely on the life of the prophet as written in the Quran and Hadiths and promised heavenly rewards for killing. Its atrocities justified by verses or surahs and posted online for the world to see. Apologists will tell you Islam also has benign peaceful content but this is no more than cherry picking. You leave it and the sentence is death. To the faithful it is the unarguable, unaltered and final word of God - warts and all - in essence an arrogant invitation to violence. So, Robinson is not really the problem. He is just pointing to the elephant in the room. An elephant that is nation building as Trevor Phillips succinctly put it and one that represents an existential threat as Christopher Hitchens laid out. Liberals not on the front line like Robinson is in Luton or elsewhere where Sharia is creeping its way into crime ridden no go zones. Yes there is a problem and we should be looking at banning the forcible veiling of woman like the French and others have as a first step and prohibiting, licensing and monitoring mosques and mosque building. If we don't then let the virus keep mutating unchecked as the population doubles every decade. But Tommy is a nasty little racist. Let's just jail him and stick our heads in the sand. Wow. So were you radicalised on the internet or in your community, out of interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 These threads are gold for rooting out the dross of society. I'm no liberal snowflake, but if you support Tommy Robinson, you're doing life wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, Cade said: You should be on some sort of watchlist I think his mum might take away his internet privileges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, redm said: Wow. So were you radicalised on the internet or in your community, out of interest? I've read into it. I suggest Ibn Warraq's, Why I Am Not A Muslim, Mosab Yousef's Son of Hamas as starting points. Apostates who cannot be labelled or dismissed by the white left. Pat Condell's you tube videos are also a good source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said: Are you saying that all Muslims believe the exact same thing? Do all Christians believe the exact same interpretation of the Bible? I'm not saying that at all. I was asking JackLadd if that's what he was getting at in his post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, JackLadd said: I've read into it. I suggest Ibn Warraq's, Why I Am Not A Muslim, Mosab Yousef's Son of Hamas as starting points. Apostates who cannot be labelled or dismissed by the white left. Pat Condell's you tube videos are also a good source. It's not about dismissing anyone, or not for me anyway. Islamic State is a very bad thing, they kill a lot of Muslims for starters, the Quran lends itself to some interpretations incompatible with what we see as a civilised way of life, some people big up those elements, some others interpret it completely differently, and most of the 1.8 billion Muslims in the world live perfectly peaceful and normal lives without buying in to any of the extremism or becoming radicalised. I don't think it's helpful to mix up your average Muslim with Islamic extremists, that's all. It's even less helpful to talk about child grooming gangs like they're representative of the Muslim community, like the key defining characteristic of those who abuse children is their religion - because it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, redm said: It's not about dismissing anyone, or not for me anyway. Islamic State is a very bad thing, they kill a lot of Muslims for starters, the Quran lends itself to some interpretations incompatible with what we see as a civilised way of life, some people big up those elements, some others interpret it completely differently, and most of the 1.8 billion Muslims in the world live perfectly peaceful and normal lives without buying in to any of the extremism or becoming radicalised. I don't think it's helpful to mix up your average Muslim with Islamic extremists, that's all. It's even less helpful to talk about child grooming gangs like they're representative of the Muslim community, like the key defining characteristic of those who abuse children is their religion - because it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, redm said: That's interesting and offers a detailed narrative to go with the various available stats, which is handy. This stuff is so far from straightforward. I often wish the same amount of energy went in to discussing and debating sexual crimes (in a more general sense) as goes into focusing on very specific cases in very specific areas involving a very narrow demographic. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on here in which people get outraged about the fact that men commit a massive massive percentage of sexual crimes in the UK, for example. Almost all of the crimes actually, according to the available statistics. Nobody talks about their skin colour (predominantly white), their culture or their religion or describes it as an "existential problem", or talks about how much these crimes cost the NHS, or laments the fact that nobody seems able to talk about it openly, or goes through a religious book looking for lines that justify criminal sexual behaviour or sympathises with victims for being unheard or unsupported, or mentions their suffering at the hands of the criminal justice system or a million other things. Sexual crimes are far from being a issue specific to any one community. You could almost forgive any readers from being far from convinced that the victims (men, women, girls, boys, infants) of these crimes are the motivation for the discussion in the first place - the way in which this particular issue is discussed is noticeably different. It often reads as just another strand of an anti-Muslim agenda. A fair post. Zooming in, in particular to the highlighted above – have you ever at any stage in your life, from the millions of conversations you have had personally, millions of words you have read with your own eyes and all the conversations you have witnessed ever at any stage heard a man deny this? What we have in our society is denial that there is an issue with Islam. This whole ‘yeah but non Muslims do it too’ is irrelevant here. Even tribes in the Amazonian rainforests that have had no contact with the outside modern world are aware of sexual assault – it happens everywhere. We (very sadly) will always have it. This thread is about Islamic gang rape, I welcome a thread on general sexual assault by the way – I would get aboard that and air my thoughts. But this is about Islam, a religion that has been invited to our shores, we have enough evil and sexual perverts as it is we do not want their barbaric beliefs and ways of life on top of what we have already. Every single time someone highlights a crime that has been committed by a Muslim someone from the left will interject with “oh but non-Mulsims commit these crimes too” We know!!! No-one ever at any stage out of 8 billion people would be stupid enough to say crime is exclusive to Muslims. But can we please just for once talk about it without having someone do the “Non-mulsim” comparison – please. The comparison is as relevant as having a thread on “Nasty robbing greedy bankers” then hijack it with “but but but other people steal too” – it is irrelevant. It is like having a thread on ‘domestic violence from husbands’ then hijacking it with “but women beat up husbands too” – we all know. I just beg, I really do, please,just give this very sensitive but serious topic the floor space and air time it deserves without comparisons. Peace, I8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said: These threads are gold for rooting out the dross of society. I'm no liberal snowflake, but if you support Tommy Robinson, you're doing life wrong. Could you kindly PM me the ‘code of conduct’ and ‘ethics of life’ by New York Flea Pit please and I will change my ways. I am so sorry, I never released you were the definitive guide in how to live life the right way. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 36 minutes ago, redm said: That's interesting and offers a detailed narrative to go with the various available stats, which is handy. This stuff is so far from straightforward. I often wish the same amount of energy went in to discussing and debating sexual crimes (in a more general sense) as goes into focusing on very specific cases in very specific areas involving a very narrow demographic. I don't think I've ever seen a thread on here in which people get outraged about the fact that men commit a massive massive percentage of sexual crimes in the UK, for example. Almost all of the crimes actually, according to the available statistics. Nobody talks about their skin colour (predominantly white), their culture or their religion or describes it as an "existential problem", or talks about how much these crimes cost the NHS, or laments the fact that nobody seems able to talk about it openly, or goes through a religious book looking for lines that justify criminal sexual behaviour or sympathises with victims for being unheard or unsupported, or mentions their suffering at the hands of the criminal justice system or a million other things. Sexual crimes are far from being a issue specific to any one community. You could almost forgive any readers from being far from convinced that the victims (men, women, girls, boys, infants) of these crimes are the motivation for the discussion in the first place - the way in which this particular issue is discussed is noticeably different. It often reads as just another strand of an anti-Muslim agenda. I must tell my Muslim colleague, currently fasting for Ramadan, that's he doing it wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said: What does he say? Can you break it down for me? I'm not watching any videos because 1. I'm at work, 2. I don't want to give these people any pennies from clicks/watches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Could you kindly PM me the ‘code of conduct’ and ‘ethics of life’ by New York Flea Pit please and I will change my ways. I am so sorry, I never released you were the definitive guide in how to live life the right way. cheers If you laugh at womens football you are sexist and hate women. You are also sexist if you don't laugh at female comedians... and you still are even if you do laugh at them. That's all I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, peter_hmfc said: If you laugh at womens football you are sexist and hate women. You are also sexist if you don't laugh at female comedians... and you still are even if you do laugh at them. That's all I know. I have also heard if you do not fancy transgenders then you have transphobia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: I have also heard if you do not fancy transgenders then you have transphobia. He's truly a bizarre fellow. When I see a squirrel with it's head stuck in a coffee cup, or a pigeon with a plastic ring from a lager 4-pack around its neck, sometimes it reminds me of his wisdom. "You portray yourself as pro-women yet you laugh at female comedians!" Strong words, strong bewildering words. Edited May 31, 2018 by peter_hmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, redm said: What does he say? Can you break it down for me? I'm not watching any videos because 1. I'm at work, 2. I don't want to give these people any pennies from clicks/watches. Paraphrasing: Extremism and radicalisation is a lot broader than just terrorism, anyone who thinks otherwise is naive. There is plenty of violent material in the Old and New Testament, but followers aren't currently ramming airliners into towers of mutilating genitalia. He goes through nations such as Indonesia, Pakistan, Egypt, Germany, the UK and the USA using Pew Research who asked questions such as whether the responder thought suicide bombings could be justified, should the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists be prosecuted, and opinions on honour killing and Bin Laden. 78% of British Muslims responded to say they wanted cartoonists of Mohammed legal prosecuted. The end result was 680,000,000 radical Muslims, but this isn't surveying countries such as Somalia and Afghanistan. You'd imagine these places would be somewhat more radical, thus making more than 800,000,000 radicals, thus making the "radicals" a majority of the 1.6bn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said: He's truly a bizarre fellow. When I see a squirrel with it's head stuck in a coffee cup, or a pigeon with a plastic ring from a lager 4-pack around its neck, sometimes it reminds me of his wisdom. "You portray yourself as pro-women yet you laugh at female comedians!" Strong words, strong bewildering words. We must like things on his terms. The fact I love women in my own way, or respect homosexuality in my way, respect people in my own way etc is not good enough. We must obey NY Flea pit and do it his way or we just don’t do it as well. He respects women more than I do as I say a few jokes, or have some different opinions on things involving women. To be honest I can’t keep up. I just want to go about my life and keep myself to myself But I don’t want to be a racist, sexist, transhpobe, xenophobe, fascist or homophobe. Help me please NY Flea Pit – what am I doing wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 30 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: A fair post. Zooming in, in particular to the highlighted above – have you ever at any stage in your life, from the millions of conversations you have had personally, millions of words you have read with your own eyes and all the conversations you have witnessed ever at any stage heard a man deny this? What we have in our society is denial that there is an issue with Islam. This whole ‘yeah but non Muslims do it too’ is irrelevant here. Even tribes in the Amazonian rainforests that have had no contact with the outside modern world are aware of sexual assault – it happens everywhere. We (very sadly) will always have it. This thread is about Islamic gang rape, I welcome a thread on general sexual assault by the way – I would get aboard that and air my thoughts. But this is about Islam, a religion that has been invited to our shores, we have enough evil and sexual perverts as it is we do not want their barbaric beliefs and ways of life on top of what we have already. Every single time someone highlights a crime that has been committed by a Muslim someone from the left will interject with “oh but non-Mulsims commit these crimes too” We know!!! No-one ever at any stage out of 8 billion people would be stupid enough to say crime is exclusive to Muslims. But can we please just for once talk about it without having someone do the “Non-mulsim” comparison – please. The comparison is as relevant as having a thread on “Nasty robbing greedy bankers” then hijack it with “but but but other people steal too” – it is irrelevant. It is like having a thread on ‘domestic violence from husbands’ then hijacking it with “but women beat up husbands too” – we all know. I just beg, I really do, please,just give this very sensitive but serious topic the floor space and air time it deserves without comparisons. Peace, I8 It's not about people denying this or any other crime, tbf. My post was a gripe about the lack of interest/energy in discussing sexual crime in a general sense, whereas there's often a great appetite for discussing a subset of it - mostly the subsets that involve an opportunity to fling shit at Muslims. There's a big difference. We have a global problem with Islamic extremists, and we also (distinctly and separately) have a problem with sexual abuse. The two are quite different things. You're not going to advance the idea that we need to do something about extremism or terrorism by bringing in arguments like "they commit the sexual crimes" because that doesn't make them any different from anyone else. It's weak and it's unfair and it doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny of any sort. If the discussion of these crimes was more even-handed and wasn't promoted by people with obvious anti-Muslim agendas they might have a little more credibility. Also, if people didn't approach these subjects with a blatant "OMG look what they did because they're Muslim" angle it might make sensible discussion a lot easier. Same goes for flinging in a bunch of assumptions and cultural stereotyping. These men didn't abuse vulnerable girls because they're Muslim, because if their religion was the defining root cause then non-Muslims wouldn't commit exactly the same sort of crimes, basically, and they totally do. Tell you what I do agree with though - that community and culture may have something to do with the length of time these crimes were kept secret. Again, that's not a community characteristic unique to Muslims. And damn straight it's an important subject so it's kind of frustrating to sometimes see the debate reduced to "aye yeah let's not discuss that aspect of sexual crimes or sexual abuse of children, the bigger picture and the actual causes, I just want to talk exclusively about the bits that involve Muslim communities". A filtered version of the subject, a narrow view shaped by or influenced by prejudices and other agendas. It's almost like it's not actually about the victims at all. And, of course, peace. Emotive subject. It's such a massive issue and it's infuriating to see it so often reduced to fit the needs of vicious little bigots like Robinson. He doesn't give a shit about the victims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: We must like things on his terms. The fact I love women in my own way, or respect homosexuality in my way, respect people in my own way etc is not good enough. We must obey NY Flea pit and do it his way or we just don’t do it as well. He respects women more than I do as I say a few jokes, or have some different opinions on things involving women. To be honest I can’t keep up. I just want to go about my life and keep myself to myself But I don’t want to be a racist, sexist, transhpobe, xenophobe, fascist or homophobe. Help me please NY Flea Pit – what am I doing wrong? It's too late now ih8! If you've ever laughed at a female footballer miss an open goal or if you've ever thought a female comedian was a bit dull then I'm afraid the writing is on the wall for you. But wait... did you just assume Fleapits ****ing gender?! Firey pits for you I'm afraid . Edited May 31, 2018 by peter_hmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said: If you laugh at womens football you are sexist and hate women. You are also sexist if you don't laugh at female comedians... and you still are even if you do laugh at them. That's all I know. Nah. If you demonstrate consistent disrespect, hate, dislike, prejudice against or contempt for women then you're likely to be branded a misogynist. Pretty fair. If you discriminate or demonstrate prejudice against women because of her sex, or rely on stereotypes, then that'll maybe make you sexist. Nothing to do with not liking women's football or not liking female comedians, that's a reductive approach and designed to discredit the underlying concepts, but if you find yourself just plain not liking women or anything they do (unless it gratifies you in some way) then you might need to ask yourself why that is. Was going to suggest this was veering towards off-topic but problematic male attitudes towards women are a big factor in any discussion about sexual crime, so...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, redm said: Nah. If you demonstrate consistent disrespect, hate, dislike, prejudice against or contempt for women then you're likely to be branded a misogynist. Pretty fair. If you discriminate or demonstrate prejudice against women because of her sex, or rely on stereotypes, then that'll maybe make you sexist. Nothing to do with not liking women's football or not liking female comedians, that's a reductive approach and designed to discredit the underlying concepts, but if you find yourself just plain not liking women or anything they do (unless it gratifies you in some way) then you might need to ask yourself why that is. Was going to suggest this was veering towards off-topic but problematic male attitudes towards women are a big factor in any discussion about sexual crime, so...... Nothing to do with the fact that womens football is generally of very poor quality? Does it make me sexist against males when I laugh at the Scottish League Two? Maybe possible I just don't like womens style of stand-up? Can you explain my signature, under-name text, or the fact that a majority of my favourite acting people and singers are female? Do I pick and choose when to be sexist? You've posted some real shite in this thread but this is a new depth. This is what Fleapit thinking does to you redm. Not even once. Just say no. Edited May 31, 2018 by peter_hmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Don't think I could be admin and engage with Peter. Temptation to just reach for that button would be far too much. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said: Nothing to do with the fact that womens football is generally of very poor quality? Does it make me sexist against males when I laugh at the Scottish League Two? Maybe possible I just don't like womens style of stand-up? Can you explain my signature, under-name text, or the fact that a majority of my favourite acting people and singers are female? Do I pick and choose when to be sexist? You've posted some real shite in this thread but this is a new depth. This is what Fleapit thinking does to you redm. Not even once. Just say no. You're having your own debate here - how does your defence of your position on women's football match up in any way to what I said above? It's like you're replying to what you hoped I'd say rather than what I did actually say. I also didn't say you were a misogynist or a sexist, I was talking about the definitions you brought up a few posts before. Resorting to insults is pretty feeble by the way. Let's keep it civil, shall we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Don't think I could be admin and engage with Peter. Temptation to just reach for that button would be far too much. ? On the subject of Islam, you previously insisted I was "extremist and bigotted" but provided no evidence whatsoever. Will you either back this up or have the guts to apologise? 1 minute ago, redm said: You're having your own debate here - how does your defence of your position on women's football match up in any way to what I said above? It's like you're replying to what you hoped I'd say rather than what I did actually say. I also didn't say you were a misogynist or a sexist, I was talking about the definitions you brought up a few posts before. Resorting to insults is pretty feeble by the way. Let's keep it civil, shall we? Do you realise what I said earlier was in sarcasm and relating to Fleapits previous nonsense he spouts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said: On the subject of Islam, you previously insisted I was "extremist and bigotted" but provided no evidence whatsoever. Will you either back this up or have the guts to apologise? Do you realise what I said earlier was in sarcasm and relating to Fleapits previous nonsense he spouts? The comment was about two years ago ? and I have apologised. ? Maybe you missed it. Maybe it wasn't combative enough so you just skimmed over it. I've never seen anyone triggered so much by a comment online. That's about the twelfth time you've mentioned it. Peak snowflake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: The comment was about two years ago ? and I have apologised. ? Maybe you missed it. Maybe it wasn't combative enough so you just skimmed over it. I've never seen anyone triggered so much by a comment online. That's about the twelfth time you've mentioned it. Peak snowflake. I'm honestly just seeing if you have the guts to apologise, and no, you haven't already. It was funny watching you run away each time. Really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said: On the subject of Islam, you previously insisted I was "extremist and bigotted" but provided no evidence whatsoever. Will you either back this up or have the guts to apologise? Do you realise what I said earlier was in sarcasm and relating to Fleapits previous nonsense he spouts? I don't think he spouts nonsense at all. And no, it wasn't immediately obvious at all that you were being sarcastic. My assumption on that will probably draw from other things I've seen you write in the past though. I guess you don't want to talk about sexism, misogyny, or male attitudes towards women in context of sexual crimes then? Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Don't think I could be admin and engage with Peter. Temptation to just reach for that button would be far too much. ? My self-discipline is rock solid.* (* I'm not brave enough to anger Maple Leaf) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said: I'm honestly just seeing if you have the guts to apologise, and no, you haven't already. It was funny watching you run away each time. Really. I'll await your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: I'll await your own. "About 2 years" late, but okay. You've proved my point that it took you so long though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, peter_hmfc said: "About 2 years" late, but okay. You've proved my point that it took you so long though. No bother. So you don't have the guts to give me one back. Maybe in two years. ? Edited May 31, 2018 by Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, redm said: It's not about people denying this or any other crime, tbf. My post was a gripe about the lack of interest/energy in discussing sexual crime in a general sense, whereas there's often a great appetite for discussing a subset of it - mostly the subsets that involve an opportunity to fling shit at Muslims. There's a big difference. We have a global problem with Islamic extremists, and we also (distinctly and separately) have a problem with sexual abuse. The two are quite different things. You're not going to advance the idea that we need to do something about extremism or terrorism by bringing in arguments like "they commit the sexual crimes" because that doesn't make them any different from anyone else. It's weak and it's unfair and it doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny of any sort. If the discussion of these crimes was more even-handed and wasn't promoted by people with obvious anti-Muslim agendas they might have a little more credibility. Also, if people didn't approach these subjects with a blatant "OMG look what they did because they're Muslim" angle it might make sensible discussion a lot easier. Same goes for flinging in a bunch of assumptions and cultural stereotyping. These men didn't abuse vulnerable girls because they're Muslim, because if their religion was the defining root cause then non-Muslims wouldn't commit exactly the same sort of crimes, basically, and they totally do. Tell you what I do agree with though - that community and culture may have something to do with the length of time these crimes were kept secret. Again, that's not a community characteristic unique to Muslims. And damn straight it's an important subject so it's kind of frustrating to sometimes see the debate reduced to "aye yeah let's not discuss that aspect of sexual crimes or sexual abuse of children, the bigger picture and the actual causes, I just want to talk exclusively about the bits that involve Muslim communities". A filtered version of the subject, a narrow view shaped by or influenced by prejudices and other agendas. It's almost like it's not actually about the victims at all. And, of course, peace. Emotive subject. It's such a massive issue and it's infuriating to see it so often reduced to fit the needs of vicious little bigots like Robinson. He doesn't give a shit about the victims. But to even see it as basically just as an excuse to ‘fling shit at Muslims’ is kind of where the problem lies. Seriously, every single bad word said against Islam in the eyes of the left is just someone ‘flying shit at them’. Why are they so immune to all the abuse and criticism that all other humans receive in all walks of life. They are not a little pet to sit, pat and protect. Islam is big enough and most certainly powerful enough to fight its own battles. If a lowlife jakeball gets abuse for stealing a bottle of Vodka from Tesco – it is not an excuse to fling shit at the poor. If a black person rapes a girl and gets jailed – the sentencing would not just be an excuse to fling shit at a black person. Do you not see how patronising it all is? Why are people desperate to fight their battles? No-one fights mine. I am not as powerful as Islam (nor would I wish to be). And yes finally, well done for mentioning the victims. They are so often the forgotten part of evil and tragedy. To me though this ‘ throwing shit at Islam’ insight is kind of why. It seems to me that as soon as there is a tragedy/terrorist attack (there are many bad things but I am singling out this for the purposes of this chat) before a ball is even kicked look no further than this board for the blame game. It was a racist attack, lone wolf, right wing nut job, Islamic extremist and rarely the focus is on the dead. Edited May 31, 2018 by i8hibsh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 How has this thread gone from "neo nazi locked up" to "I hate all muzzies and womens football" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: No bother. Do you don't have the guts to give me one back. Maybe in two years. ? I apologise for missing it, even though that's not even remotely as bad as accusing someone of being extremist and bigotted. There, took me literally 30 seconds. Wasn't hard. Edited May 31, 2018 by peter_hmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_hmfc Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Cade said: How has this thread gone from "neo nazi locked up" to "I hate all muzzies and womens football" "Neo-Nazi". Whether it's you implying that or someone else. Edited May 31, 2018 by peter_hmfc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, peter_hmfc said: I apologise for missing it. There, took me literally 30 seconds. Wasn't hard. Appreciate that. Very speedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Cade said: How has this thread gone from "neo nazi locked up" to "I hate all muzzies and womens football" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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