Tommy Robinson

[Mikey1874]

The court order preventing reporting of all the support and protests in favour of 'Tommy Robinson' (whatever his name is) is still in place. 

[SE16 3LN]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

No philosophy involved at all. He was warned if he continued acting as he did that he would be up for contempt. That was after being found guilty of contempt on a previous occasion. And he knew exactly what he was doing.

However many times you say it, it doesn't make it true Geoff. At least you've moved on from mindless insults and little figures rolling around on their backs kicking their legs in the air.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, SE16 3LN said:

However many times you say it, it doesn't make it true Geoff. At least you've moved on from mindless insults and little figures rolling around on their backs kicking their legs in the air.

I see. So you are actually ignoring facts now. Good stuff.

 

PS A true political prisoner wouldn't have recognised the court, not pled guilty.

[Unknown user]

10 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

You haven't made an argument at all. Just a lot of stereotypes. 

I've put forward the facts of what happened. You've been free to put forward exactly what makes him a political prisoner any time but you haven't. 

 

But whatever, I'll leave it for jkb to decide what's happened here for themselves

[SE16 3LN]

8 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I see. So you are actually ignoring facts now. Good stuff.

 

PS A true political prisoner wouldn't have recognised the court, not pled guilty.

I've never seen that in any definition

[milky_26]

1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

I've never seen that in any definition

you just said earlier on this page

 

"In the absence of an accepted definition"

 

so where are these definitions you speak of

[Adam Murray]

10 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Ah, National Review. The place where racists and economic loony tunes who like to pretend they're intellectual go for their information.

 

Who are these 'racists and economic loony tunes' you speak of Justin? Is it myself, or is it Douglas Murray, something I've never heard even some of his strongest critics call him?

Or is it, as I suspect, just a general term you would use against anyone who tends to have a different viewpoint from your own?

 

What about the article, is there anything racist in it?

 

It would seem again, that kickbacks very own, self-styled intellectual liberal elite are all over a thread of this kind, on to have a pop at Robinson, as i8 said, to see who could be offended by him most.

 

What worse guy's, is it Tommy Robinson, or the subjects he brings to the fore, for you're never anywhere near those threads to even comment, never mind condemn?

 

And for what it's worth, I've not seen anyone defending Robinsons arrest and imprisonment since the fact came to light, indeed the piece I linked from Douglas Murray goes some way to explaining it.

 

The facts are both more prosaic and depressing. Robinson would not now be in jail if he had not once again accosted defendants in an ongoing trial outside the courthouse. He had been told by a judge last May not to do this and yet he did this again. It isn’t the worst thing in the world (it isn’t child rape, for instance), but it is an offense to which Robinson understandably pleaded guilty. More important, the trial that was coming to a close last Friday is just one part of a trial involving multiple other defendants. It is certainly possible that Robinson’s breaking of reporting restrictions at the Leeds trial could have prejudiced those trials. To have caused the collapse of such a trial would have been more than a blunder; it would have been an additional blow to victims who deserve justice.

[Governor Tarkin]

26 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said:

OK. 

 

Bobby Sands. Terrorist or freedom fighter?

 

Nelson Mandela. Terrorist or freedom fighter?

 

Princess Leia. Terrorist of freedom fighter?

[Bridge of Djoum]

11 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Princess Leia. Terrorist of freedom fighter?

Ride.

 

Although I've never watched a single minute of any Star Wars movie.

Edited June 11, 2018 by New York Fleapit

[SE16 3LN]

6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I've put forward the facts of what happened. You've been free to put forward exactly what makes him a political prisoner any time but you haven't. 

 

But whatever, I'll leave it for jkb to decide what's happened here for themselves

The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubt and the stupid people are full of confidence, to paraphrase Bukowski. I think I've put forward an argument to say that even if you believe TR is a disgrace of a human being, he may be a political prisoner. I've received a lot of abuse and ridicule from people for that and I've responded in kind. Your self belief that you're right doesn't make you right. You certainly hold a lot of prejudice yet you're very quick to accuse others of the very same. 

 

In the end, a few hundred right wing football hooligans on the streets of London doesn't mean that much. 

[SE16 3LN]

13 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

you just said earlier on this page

 

"In the absence of an accepted definition"

 

so where are these definitions you speak of

Google them lazy milky

[Cade]

FFS he is NOT a political prisoner.

Political prisoners are put in jail for their political beliefs.

 

Yaxley-Lennon is in jail because he (twice) broke media banning orders and put serious trials at risk of collapse.

 

But it seems that the gammons on the streets and on this board have convinced themselves that this was not why he is currently dodging people in the showers.

[Geoff the Mince]

18 minutes ago, Cade said:

FFS he is NOT a political prisoner.

Political prisoners are put in jail for their political beliefs.

 

Yaxley-Lennon is in jail because he (twice) broke media banning orders and put serious trials at risk of collapse.

 

But it seems that the gammons on the streets and on this board have convinced themselves that this was not why he is currently dodging people in the showers.

Gammon ? Is that the opposite of snowflake ? 

 

 

[Bridge of Djoum]

27 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Gammon ? Is that the opposite of snowflake ? 

 

 

I think it's a term to describe angry white men.

 

The relative term for angry black men I believe is b(l)ackgammon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubt and the stupid people are full of confidence, to paraphrase Bukowski. I think I've put forward an argument to say that even if you believe TR is a disgrace of a human being, he may be a political prisoner. I've received a lot of abuse and ridicule from people for that and I've responded in kind. Your self belief that you're right doesn't make you right. You certainly hold a lot of prejudice yet you're very quick to accuse others of the very same. 

 

In the end, a few hundred right wing football hooligans on the streets of London doesn't mean that much. 

You didn't say he may be, you said he is a political prisoner, but nice try. 

 

Your self belief that you're right means very little too, remember. I don't mind you thinking I'm prejudiced, I'll get over it, but no matter what accusations you throw at me you've given no reasonable case for your argument.

 

The guy knowingly and publicly broke the law, they can't exactly let him off with it ffs

[Don Dan]

Tommy wanted to be a martyr imo.

 

I understand why he’s protesting and reporting. (Term used loosely.) and I would back him on that to the hilt.

There are scores of young vulnerable girls who have been systematically abused. The main abusers (who prey on the vulnerable  in many areas of the U.K.)  come from a background that is surrounded by eggshells. We need to confront this head on, as uncomfortable as it maybe due to their ethnicity.  We need to protect these girls Who follow that unfortunate route in life. These girls must be safe and protected no matter how they ended up in this situation that  they find themselves in.

Authorities turning a blind eye must end. 

 

  I don’t follow his core beliefs or some of the clowns that associate themselves with him before anyone asks!

Edited June 11, 2018 by Dannie Boy

[Governor Tarkin]

12 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Tommy wanted to be a martyr imo.

 

I understand why he’s protesting and reporting. (Term used loosely.) and I would back him on that to the hilt.

There are scores of young vulnerable girls who have been systematically abused. The main abusers (who prey on the vulnerable  in many areas of the U.K.)  come from a background that is surrounded by eggshells. We need to confront this head on, as uncomfortable as it maybe due to their ethnicity.  We need to protect these girls Who follow that unfortunate route in life. These girls must be safe and protected no matter how they ended up in this situation that  they find themselves in.

Authorities turning a blind eye must end. 

 

I think we're all on-board with this bit, Dannie Boy.

[Notts1874]

21 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Tommy wanted to be a martyr imo.

 

I understand why he’s protesting and reporting. (Term used loosely.) and I would back him on that to the hilt.

There are scores of young vulnerable girls who have been systematically abused. The main abusers (who prey on the vulnerable  in many areas of the U.K.)  come from a background that is surrounded by eggshells. We need to confront this head on, as uncomfortable as it maybe due to their ethnicity.  We need to protect these girls Who follow that unfortunate route in life. These girls must be safe and protected no matter how they ended up in this situation that  they find themselves in.

Authorities turning a blind eye must end. 

 

  I don’t follow his core beliefs or some of the clowns that associate themselves with him before anyone asks!

The authorities didn't turn a blind eye in this instance.They were being tried in a court of law.

 

What Robinson did put the case in jeopardy.

[JyTees]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

FFS he is NOT a political prisoner.

Political prisoners are put in jail for their political beliefs.

 

Yaxley-Lennon is in jail because he (twice) broke media banning orders and put serious trials at risk of collapse.

 

But it seems that the gammons on the streets and on this board have convinced themselves that this was not why he is currently dodging people in the showers.

 

Are you Owen Jones?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Notts1874 said:

The authorities didn't turn a blind eye in this instance.They were being tried in a court of law.

 

What Robinson did put the case in jeopardy.

This

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

7 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

The authorities didn't turn a blind eye in this instance.They were being tried in a court of law.

 

What Robinson did put the case in jeopardy.

Yes. It's TR, and only TR, that is potentially getting them off with a mis-trial.

 

Well him and the folk thinking he's a political prisoner for pleading guilty to a criminal offence. 

[Justin Z]

13 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

I'll take issue with this.

 

He talks pish on here but i8 certainly isn't a white supremacy supporter. That's a horrible accusation to blindly chuck around.

 

You should wind your neck in with that shit, mate.

 

Thanks for pointing this out--I'm going to stop short of winding my neck in, but definitely clarify that in context of the full relevant statement (of which you only quoted the end part), I was making a distinction between the larger group i8 most closely resembles, and the actual Nazi saluting types. If you go back and read that part of my post in its entirety, hopefully that's more apparent, but I'm happy to clarify it here.

 

That's not to say that his and his ilk's positions and his "pish talking" if you like (including his and others' support of outwardly racist c-nuts like Robinson, D'Souza et al) doesn't contribute to the furtherance of white supremacy, because it does. But it is most definitely not the same level.

[SE16 3LN]

8 hours ago, Smithee said:

You didn't say he may be, you said he is a political prisoner, but nice try. 

 

Your self belief that you're right means very little too, remember. I don't mind you thinking I'm prejudiced, I'll get over it, but no matter what accusations you throw at me you've given no reasonable case for your argument.

 

The guy knowingly and publicly broke the law, they can't exactly let him off with it ffs

Is that right, or are you just too prejudiced to listen.

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, SE16 3LN said:

Is that right, or are you just too prejudiced to listen.

 

Tell us what the 'reasonable case' is for arguing that someone who'd:

 

1. Already been in contempt of court once

 

2. Was told by the judge that if it happened again, he'd go to jail

 

3. Did it again, prejudicing a hugely important trial in the process

 

4. Pleaded guilty

 

... Is in fact a victim? 

 

Tell us also whether you'd rather guilty people in a case as hideous as this went free because of their trial being prejudiced; and whether you believe in the rule of law at all.

 

Come on - we're all ears. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

12 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Tell us what the 'reasonable case' is for arguing that someone who'd:

 

1. Already been in contempt of court once

 

2. Was told by the judge that if it happened again, he'd go to jail

 

3. Did it again, prejudicing a hugely important trial in the process

 

4. Pleaded guilty

 

... Is in fact a victim? 

 

Tell us also whether you'd rather guilty people in a case as hideous as this went free because of their trial being prejudiced; and whether you believe in the rule of law at all.

 

Come on - we're all ears. 

All eyes....surely

[Justin Z]

10 hours ago, Adam Murray said:

Or is it, as I suspect, just a general term you would use against anyone who tends to have a different viewpoint from your own?

 

This deserves a hearty . Hahaha, what a ridiculous thing to even consider writing. Well done.

 

Douglas Murray can go to hell with his continued painting of British Muslims as not British by default, and only worthy of being called British if they conform to what white Brits say it means to be British. This is the exact same bullshit we put up with from racists in the US, not just with Americans who are Muslim, but those who are Black (kneeling at the anthem being the most visible latest example), and all non-whites. Do as white America says you should, be a part of what white America defines as fundamentally American, don't ever try to put your own stamp on what it means to be American or what values we hold dear.

 

Seriously, this is a headline of one of Douglas Murray's pieces: Is the startling rise in Muslim infants as positive as The Times suggests? STARTLING. And of course, included is a cartoon white man having his mouth covered, the poor victim, unable to speak out about what these non-British "others" are doing to British society for fear of being branded perfectly accurately as a bigoted c***. The caption: There are certain things in Britain about which it is impossible to speak frankly. The birth rate of the Muslim population is a prime subject. No, you twat, you can speak frankly about it all you want. If you couch that speech in dogwhistling racist drivel, expect good people in turn to speak frankly about what a dogwhistling, racist peddler of drivel you are.

 

But I think the best thing about this article is that he unironically includes the words of a Muslim cleric, Ibrahim Mogra, who is doing exactly what Ron Burgundy was complaining Muslims don't do enough earlier in the thread: seeking to reassure white people that Muslims love Britain, they're not like the scary brown people popularly presented. But that's not good enough for Murray. Muslims can't win--it's not enough for a Muslim to declare that he and those like him "feel increasingly British", it has to get a white British seal of approval from the likes of Murray.

 

Even worse though is the speech he gave the Dutch parliament, where he said that "Europe still has time to turn around the demographic time-bomb which will soon see a number of our largest cities fall to Muslim majorities." Cities. Fall. Like it's a f***ing war being fought against an enemy. Not fellow British, not fellow Europeans. They aren't worthy of that dignity. "Conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board: Europe must look like a less attractive proposition."

 

And finally, he's not such a beacon of the free expression of ideas when it comes to non-whites. Muslims that "take part in, plot, assist or condone violence against the West must be forcibly deported to their place of origin." Which mostly sounds reasonable, aside from the "condone" part, if you're a supporter of generally free speech. Many criminals who are not citizens of the place where they've committed their crimes are deported, that's nothing new.

But wait: "Where a person was born in the west, they should be deported to the country of origin of their parent or grandparent.”

To this utter waste of oxygen, even people born here--if they're brown, they're not British. They should be deported. Back to where their ancestors came from.

 

Pure, unabashed, racist piece of shit. **** Douglas Murray.

[Justin Z]

28 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Thanks for pointing this out--I'm going to stop short of winding my neck in, but definitely clarify that in context of the full relevant statement (of which you only quoted the end part), I was making a distinction between the larger group i8 most closely resembles, and the actual Nazi saluting types. If you go back and read that part of my post in its entirety, hopefully that's more apparent, but I'm happy to clarify it here.

 

That's not to say that his and his ilk's positions and his "pish talking" if you like (including his and others' support of outwardly racist c-nuts like Robinson, D'Souza et al) doesn't contribute to the furtherance of white supremacy, because it does. But it is most definitely not the same level.

 

No idea why the forum software has put the image I used in my other post into this post. But it's not supposed to be there.

[Adam Murray]

59 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

This deserves a hearty . Hahaha, what a ridiculous thing to even consider writing. Well done.

 

Douglas Murray can go to hell with his continued painting of British Muslims as not British by default, and only worthy of being called British if they conform to what white Brits say it means to be British. This is the exact same bullshit we put up with from racists in the US, not just with Americans who are Muslim, but those who are Black (kneeling at the anthem being the most visible latest example), and all non-whites. Do as white America says you should, be a part of what white America defines as fundamentally American, don't ever try to put your own stamp on what it means to be American or what values we hold dear.

 

Seriously, this is a headline of one of Douglas Murray's pieces: Is the startling rise in Muslim infants as positive as The Times suggests? STARTLING. And of course, included is a cartoon white man having his mouth covered, the poor victim, unable to speak out about what these non-British "others" are doing to British society for fear of being branded perfectly accurately as a bigoted c***. The caption: There are certain things in Britain about which it is impossible to speak frankly. The birth rate of the Muslim population is a prime subject. No, you twat, you can speak frankly about it all you want. If you couch that speech in dogwhistling racist drivel, expect good people in turn to speak frankly about what a dogwhistling, racist peddler of drivel you are.

 

But I think the best thing about this article is that he unironically includes the words of a Muslim cleric, Ibrahim Mogra, who is doing exactly what Ron Burgundy was complaining Muslims don't do enough earlier in the thread: seeking to reassure white people that Muslims love Britain, they're not like the scary brown people popularly presented. But that's not good enough for Murray. Muslims can't win--it's not enough for a Muslim to declare that he and those like him "feel increasingly British", it has to get a white British seal of approval from the likes of Murray.

 

Even worse though is the speech he gave the Dutch parliament, where he said that "Europe still has time to turn around the demographic time-bomb which will soon see a number of our largest cities fall to Muslim majorities." Cities. Fall. Like it's a f***ing war being fought against an enemy. Not fellow British, not fellow Europeans. They aren't worthy of that dignity. "Conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board: Europe must look like a less attractive proposition."

 

And finally, he's not such a beacon of the free expression of ideas when it comes to non-whites. Muslims that "take part in, plot, assist or condone violence against the West must be forcibly deported to their place of origin." Which mostly sounds reasonable, aside from the "condone" part, if you're a supporter of generally free speech. Many criminals who are not citizens of the place where they've committed their crimes are deported, that's nothing new.

But wait: "Where a person was born in the west, they should be deported to the country of origin of their parent or grandparent.”

To this utter waste of oxygen, even people born here--if they're brown, they're not British. They should be deported. Back to where their ancestors came from.

 

Pure, unabashed, racist piece of shit. **** Douglas Murray.

 

 

How very gracious and tolerant of you.

 

Douglas Murray speaks well and openly on matters in this country that many politicians, and to an extent, the mainstream media, will not.

 

He speaks for many people who's concerns are not being listened too.

 

He speaks routinely of the threat of extreme Islam, the bombings, the shootings, the knife attacks, the vehicle attacks, the organised racist rape of young, vulnerable white girls.

 

He doesn't just speak about it four or five day's after the event, then hope it all goes away, he continually speaks of the threat, airing the concerns of many people who have not been listened too.

 

What's your take on the organised racist rape of young white girls Justin, is it as bad as Douglas Murray or Tommy Robinson......or are these 'white supremacist's and their ilk' the biggest threat this country faces?

[Cade]

We're getting nowhere.

 

The same few people, given the facts of the case, simply twist the subject back to their bampot claims and conspiracy theories.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

We're getting nowhere.

 

The same few people, given the facts of the case, simply twist the subject back to their bampot claims and conspiracy theories.

Sad but true.

[The Brow]

9 minutes ago, Adam Murray said:

 

 

How very gracious and tolerant of you.

 

Douglas Murray speaks well and openly on matters in this country that many politicians, and to an extent, the mainstream media, will not.

 

He speaks for many people who's concerns are not being listened too.

 

He speaks routinely of the threat of extreme Islam, the bombings, the shootings, the knife attacks, the vehicle attacks, the organised racist rape of young, vulnerable white girls.

 

He doesn't just speak about it four or five day's after the event, then hope it all goes away, he continually speaks of the threat, airing the concerns of many people who have not been listened too.

 

What's your take on the organised racist rape of young white girls Justin, is it as bad as Douglas Murray or Tommy Robinson......or are these 'white supremacist's and their ilk' the biggest threat this country faces?

 

The crux of the  matter for me is....

 

Yes there are bad eggs raping girls. This needs dealt with. 

 

However, living in Cardiff, where there are loads of different cultures, I know loads of lovely muslims. To suggest that theres some pure mad race war on the way and we should all be wary of the muslim threat is nonsense. 

 

There is a middle ground, where Douglas Murray and Tommy Robinson do not stand, they are pretty far right, so they reap what they sow. Some folk think theyre racist, some folk think theyre ok. They arent stupid, they know exactly what they are doing. To say that Robinson is a political prisoner is absolute bollocks tho. 

[SE16 3LN]

2 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Tell us what the 'reasonable case' is for arguing that someone who'd:

 

1. Already been in contempt of court once

 

2. Was told by the judge that if it happened again, he'd go to jail

 

3. Did it again, prejudicing a hugely important trial in the process

 

4. Pleaded guilty

 

... Is in fact a victim? 

 

Tell us also whether you'd rather guilty people in a case as hideous as this went free because of their trial being prejudiced; and whether you believe in the rule of law at all.

 

Come on - we're all ears. 

None of the above has any relevance to what I said but thanks for including me anyway. I do agree with your comments, even though I'm somewhat bemused as to why you're directing them at me. I can only conclude that you are in an anger state and are just firing off everywhere. Try to calm down and find a fellow hater to attack.

Warmest Regards

Tony

 

[Governor Tarkin]

2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Seriously, this is a headline of one of Douglas Murray's pieces: Is the startling rise in Muslim infants as positive as The Times suggests? STARTLING. And of course, included is a cartoon white man having his mouth covered, the poor victim, unable to speak out about what these non-British "others" are doing to British society for fear of being branded perfectly accurately as a bigoted c***.

 

Problem is, Justin, that many white people in the UK can see a material change in the demographic and political power base of their home towns and are simply scared. People don't like change. People don't like folk that they percieve aren't the same as them doing different things in their communities, and in many cases doing bad things in their communities. Has anybody stopped to ask whether anti-white-British racism exists whithin the non-white-British communities? From the vantage point of an educated man in cosmopolitain Edinburgh it's easy to pontificate but difficult to judge just how insular the Muslim/white British communities are in some English cities. No doubt there is a hearty measure of crossover but it appears that there's still a worrying amount of us-and-them on all sides. I don't think this is a one way street. People are scared to raise their heads above the parapet for fear of being labelled racists (the historic failure of the authorities to deal with Asian/Pakistani-British grooming beastie rape gangs being a symptom of this). Unfortunately those who do raise their heads up and shout the loudest tend to the more extreme ends of the spectrum. In this way all grown-up public debate around multi-culturalism and a positive way forward is stifled - to be replaced with general mud-slinging and mutual antagonism.

 

Branding folk with genuine fears as simply 'bigoted *****' is part of the reason we're at this crossroads in the first place.

 

[Justin Z]

55 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Problem is, Justin, that many white people in the UK can see a material change in the demographic and political power base of their home towns and are simply scared. People don't like change. People don't like folk that they percieve aren't the same as them doing different things in their communities, and in many cases doing bad things in their communities. Has anybody stopped to ask whether anti-white-British racism exists whithin the non-white-British communities? From the vantage point of an educated man in cosmopolitain Edinburgh it's easy to pontificate but difficult to judge just how insular the Muslim/white British communities are in some English cities. No doubt there is a hearty measure of crossover but it appears that there's still a worrying amount of us-and-them on all sides. I don't think this is a one way street. People are scared to raise their heads above the parapet for fear of being labelled racists (the historic failure of the authorities to deal with Asian/Pakistani-British grooming beastie rape gangs being a symptom of this). Unfortunately those who do raise their heads up and shout the loudest tend to the more extreme ends of the spectrum. In this way all grown-up public debate around multi-culturalism and a positive way forward is stifled - to be replaced with general mud-slinging and mutual antagonism.

 

Branding folk with genuine fears as simply 'bigoted *****' is part of the reason we're at this crossroads in the first place.

 

 

As usual, though we may disagree on the substance of things at various times, you are always a clearheaded thinker, Gov, and bring a nice dose of levity. Cheers ?

[Governor Tarkin]

18 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

As usual, though we may disagree on the substance of things at various times, you are always a clearheaded thinker, Gov, and bring a nice dose of levity. Cheers ?

 

As are you, buddy.

 

P.S. Me? Clearheaded thinker?

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Governor Tarkin

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

16 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

To decide who is a political prisoner we have to define what a political prisoner is. It can't be up to the establishment in a particular country to decide, and of course not be based on whether we agree with them politically. In the absence of an accepted definition then, If you believe TR's actions were politically motivated, then you have to consider that he may be a political prisoner. Just saying I hate the ***** doesn't mean his actions were not political and does not mean he's not a political prisoner.

 

There is a valid argument in that post but where you fall down is in comparing Lennon to the Suffragettes. Lennon is an unoppressed blockhead with an agenda. It's not even remotely the same.

[Justin Z]

24 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

As are you, buddy.

 

I appreciate that mate. What gets my hackles up is people like Murray taking the fears you talked about and twisting them, using them, making them into personal political capital, driving wedges deeper. There goes whatever levity and clear thinking I once possessed

[Geoff the Mince]

32 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

As are you, buddy.

 

P.S. Me? Clearheaded thinker?

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

6 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

 

 

Aye, **** you. ? 

[Cade]

Do you know why there is a perception of "invasion", "colonisation" and "ghettos"?

 

Because the housing of immigrants has been privitised. 

In order to maximise profits, the housing companies buy up the cheapest possible housing, which of course is in the dankest shiteholes in the nation. The kind of places that you can buy a whole street for £1 a house. Empty council housing estates. 

So, these already deprived areas get a sudden mass influx of people who did not choose to be placed there, but simply told that is where they have to live.

This then leads to the perception of the ghetto and idiots thinking that because his wee estate suddenly got a few dozen families, that this is being replicated across the nation.

Why would an immigrant choose to live in a shit area with no jobs and already bad public services?

 

If the housing of immigrants was dealt with properly by the Home Office, they'd be spread around all over the country and not concentrated into the cheapest, nastiest holes the housing contractors can find.

It's not the fault of those who came here.

 

It's the fault of the money-chasing private companies making huge profits and a government that doesn't care.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Do you know why there is a perception of "invasion", "colonisation" and "ghettos"?

 

Because the housing of immigrants has been privitised. 

In order to maximise profits, the housing companies buy up the cheapest possible housing, which of course is in the dankest shiteholes in the nation. The kind of places that you can buy a whole street for £1 a house. Empty council housing estates. 

So, these already deprived areas get a sudden mass influx of people who did not choose to be placed there, but simply told that is where they have to live.

This then leads to the perception of the ghetto and idiots thinking that because his wee estate suddenly got a few dozen families, that this is being replicated across the nation.

Why would an immigrant choose to live in a shit area with no jobs and already bad public services?

 

If the housing of immigrants was dealt with properly by the Home Office, they'd be spread around all over the country and not concentrated into the cheapest, nastiest holes the housing contractors can find.

It's not the fault of those who came here.

 

It's the fault of the money-chasing private companies making huge profits and a government that doesn't care.

 

You're simplifying the matter here, Cade (probably deliberately though, aye?), but you're on the right track.

 

We are continuing to reap the whirlwind for the de-industrialisation of the North of England. Areas with high unemployment, high poverty levels, often low educational achievement, and little hope of any material improvement, living in ghettoised communities cheek by jowl with the percieved 'others', who are more or less in a similar boat.

 

Peoples fears are often real because the situation - for all intents and purposes -ofter is real.

 

Like you alluded to though, this is a situation engineered through short-sightedness and high level profiteering - the blame for which rests with neither white working class Brit nor third generation British Pakistani.

[JyTees]

The situation hasn't been engineered by ghettoised communities. Cultural differences and an unwillingness to integrate isn't caused by shitty housing schemes.

 

Pakistani women who've lived in the country for generations don't, won't or can't speak a word of the native language. English at some schools isn't even taught as a second language. Add faith to the equation...

 

It's no wonder fear and resentment is spreading. And it's on our doorstep. 

 

London wasn't full of 10,000 fascist, far right neo Nazis at the weekend. 

 

 

[Tazio]

1 hour ago, JyTees said:

 English at some schools isn't even taught as a second language.

 

 

Well that's some bullshit right there. A large number of schools have pupils in the majority who don't have English as their first language but that is very different to your claim.

 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, JyTees said:

The situation hasn't been engineered by ghettoised communities. Cultural differences and an unwillingness to integrate isn't caused by shitty housing schemes.

 

Pakistani women who've lived in the country for generations don't, won't or can't speak a word of the native language. English at some schools isn't even taught as a second language. Add faith to the equation...

 

It's no wonder fear and resentment is spreading. And it's on our doorstep. 

 

London wasn't full of 10,000 fascist, far right neo Nazis at the weekend. 

 

 

 

Ah ok, it mustn't be a complex and multifaceted issue after all. Clearly nothing to do with socio-economics, political mishandlings, mutual distrust, shifting power relations, or wider geopolitical issues.

 

It's obviously the immigrants' fault for point blank refusing to integrate. Their third generation bursds won't even speak English ffs. How are we supposed to chat them up in the pub let alone get into their burkas?

 

I'd pack them off back to durkadurkistan land or wherever.

 

Achtung.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Governor Tarkin
Reading back my post looks as patronising as ****. Wasn't meant to but it's been a long day. Soz.

[JyTees]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Ah ok, it mustn't be a complex and multifaceted issue after all. Clearly nothing to do with socio-economics, political mishandlings, mutual distrust, shifting power relations, or wider geopolitical issues.

 

It's obviously the immigrants' fault for point blank refusing to integrate. Their third generation bursds won't even speak English ffs. How are we supposed to chat them up in the pub let alone get into their burkas?

 

I'd pack them off back to durkadurkistan land or wherever.

 

Achtung.

 

You alluded to it earlier Gov, people speak up about their misgivings and worries they see with society, and are promptly rounded on with accusations of racism, bigotry, misogyny, whatever fits the narrative. Appears I'm up for a bit of Nazism. You've just pretty much done to me what you pulled Martin Luther Z up for with i8.

 

I'll let you off seeing as you've had a long day but I'll bail out of this one before I'm sent to Nuremberg.

[John Findlay]

I will be more scathing. Caused by shortsighted politicians of all persuasions who are shit scared of doing the right thing in case they get a bad press which leads to them losing their parliamentary seat and a cushy number.

[Justin Z]

4 hours ago, JyTees said:

 

You alluded to it earlier Gov, people speak up about their misgivings and worries they see with society, and are promptly rounded on with accusations of racism, bigotry, misogyny, whatever fits the narrative. Appears I'm up for a bit of Nazism. You've just pretty much done to me what you pulled Martin Luther Z up for with i8.

 

I'll let you off seeing as you've had a long day but I'll bail out of this one before I'm sent to Nuremberg.

Now there's a lovely compliment! Thank you! Have a great Wednesday, Jy!  

[JyTees]

3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Now there's a lovely compliment! Thank you! Have a great Wednesday, Jy!  

 

And to you Zee.

 

[SE16 3LN]

21 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

There is a valid argument in that post but where you fall down is in comparing Lennon to the Suffragettes. Lennon is an unoppressed blockhead with an agenda. It's not even remotely the same.

Nowhere did I make this comparison . I did say that if the law was a defining characteristic of Political prisoner status, then none of these iconic examples would have been political prisoners. Unfortunately some of the excitable posters went into full incontinence mode believing they had come across someone even more stupid than themselves 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

Nowhere did I make this comparison . I did say that if the law was a defining characteristic of Political prisoner status, then none of these iconic examples would have been political prisoners. Unfortunately some of the excitable posters went into full incontinence mode believing they had come across someone even more stupid than themselves 

 

You mentioned them in the same breath, which is weird enough.