Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, jack D and coke said: I don’t think that the vast majority of people are doing that tbh. NI or the Israel Palestine problem is the same either that’s two groups right next to each other in a struggle and tit for tat. Britain, France, Belgium etc has growing problems with militant Islam. Nobody is suggesting all Muslims are violent that is hideous but there are reckoned to be a couple of hundred million around the world who see violence of this kind acceptable for mocking Islam etc. All this other whataboutery isn’t comparable in any way. Machine gun attacks, guys running along streets with machetes, in vehicles mowing people down, suicide bombers is random and not comparable to anything else. No one's arguing that though. Yes, Islam has problems with nutjobs more than most religions. Applying that to the rest of the Islamic population in the world is bonkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: No one's arguing that though. Yes, Islam has problems with nutjobs more than most religions. Applying that to the rest of the Islamic population in the world is bonkers. You just have to get the last word don’t you. You just repeated you’re last post for no apparent reason. You and others have compared NI or the former Yugoslavia and god knows what other centuries old whataboutery to what is happening around the entire world with regards militant Islam. Every single western country has this problem it’s not comparable to anything previous imo. I said I wasn’t lumping them all in together and highlighted what imo are night and day differences and you’ve just repeated something that nobody is actually saying on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, jack D and coke said: You just have to get the last word don’t you. You just repeated you’re last post for no apparent reason. You and others have compared NI or the former Yugoslavia and god knows what other centuries old whataboutery to what is happening around the entire world with regards militant Islam. Every single western country has this problem it’s not comparable to anything previous imo. I said I wasn’t lumping them all in together and highlighted what imo are night and day differences and you’ve just repeated something that nobody is actually saying on this thread. So, Tommy Robinson. Good guy or wanK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: You just have to get the last word don’t you. You just repeated you’re last post for no apparent reason. You and others have compared NI or the former Yugoslavia and god knows what other centuries old whataboutery to what is happening around the entire world with regards militant Islam. Every single western country has this problem it’s not comparable to anything previous imo. I said I wasn’t lumping them all in together and highlighted what imo are night and day differences and you’ve just repeated something that nobody is actually saying on this thread. Nothing to do with the last word. Everything to do with the need to stress the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: So, Tommy Robinson. Good guy or wanK? Hes a bit of a wank but that doesn’t make everything he says wrong. He’s grown up in a totally different place to what we know so it’s easy to dismiss him as simply a racist. His speech at oxford university highlights a lot of the life he saw around him. I can’t help but be impressed at how brave he is, he’s got enormous cajones for doing what he does and he keeps going despite the threats and harassment. I think jailing Tommy has been a spectacular OG tbh it’s got him worldwide headlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Nothing to do with the last word. Everything to do with the need to stress the point. Well let me stress that nobody stressed what you were trying to stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Hes a bit of a wank but that doesn’t make everything he says wrong. He’s grown up in a totally different place to what we know so it’s easy to dismiss him as simply a racist. His speech at oxford university highlights a lot of the life he saw around him. I can’t help but be impressed at how brave he is, he’s got enormous cajones for doing what he does and he keeps going despite the threats and harassment. I think jailing Tommy has been a spectacular OG tbh it’s got him worldwide headlines. Except he had been warned about contempt and was already on a suspended sentence for contempt. He is in jail for his own stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: Except he had been warned about contempt and was already on a suspended sentence for contempt. He is in jail for his own stupidity. Can’t deny that. The old saying no such thing as bad publicity though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Just now, jack D and coke said: Can’t deny that. The old saying no such thing as bad publicity though. To his acolytes he will be a martyr. To anyone with half a brain, he's just a bigger tosser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: To his acolytes he will be a martyr. To anyone with half a brain, he's just a bigger tosser. You could say that about anyone in the public eye though. Half our support think our manager’s a tosser ffs. Tommy is getting bigger all the time and jailing him has got him worldwide headlines. He’ll have more people who think he’s a tosser now but also more people who like what he’s saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 He's a **** pure and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 22 hours ago, JackLadd said: Remember Liz wanted Abu Hamza off the streets. She must be racist against Islam also. Must be the German genes or something. Goose stepping is in them. Ah, Decrying racism with Xenophobia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 15 hours ago, MacDonald Jardine said: I accept there are different sects of Muslim. I don't consider myself prejudiced against any of them. However, there is something about the culture which at best tolerates and hides those who are quite happy abusing children. Much like Catholic priests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 5 hours ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Good post. My son's aide is a hijab-wearing Muslim woman. She's brilliant. Talented, smart, compassionate. She's changed his life. She began wearing the hijab after her divorce. She didn't wear it married and nobody told her to. To her it's just a different standard of modesty - about the same as western women wearing bikinis at the beach (her words, that's how she sees it). Every so often when she's here, an alarm will sound on her phone and she'll disappear off upstairs to pray. Means nothing to me but fair enough. Live and let live. It makes me actually raging to see her lumped in and associated with diatribes about the Koran and terrorist attacks. She's so far from that world it's almost ridiculous. The 1st babysitter we ever hired was a junior colleague of my wife, a student teacher. A hijab wearing Yemeni woman. She was so amazing with our daughter. Patient, loving, playful. An amazing young woman who we still consider the best childminder we ever hired. We and the kids miss her since she graduated into a full time career. If I ever had to drop off at her house, she's 1st put her hijab on for modesty purposes, and I'd be welcomed like a friend into her home and be offered any amount of incredible food. Also, her husband was an undercover NYPD detective. It's incredible that people still want to bind all Muslims with radical Islam. As others have said, that makes all us Christians... Dylann Roof Stephen Paddock Devin Kelley James Holmes Adam Lanza Timothy McVeigh Michael Ryan Thomas Hamilton Eric Harris Dylan Klebold... We could continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 9 hours ago, JackLadd said: The hate and fear of Islam is what I am discoursing here. I have taken a dispassionate view of Islam and it's history and arrived at a considered view. I am holding up the mirror to Islam. If anything I have said is ugly it's just the reflection coming from its book of words and deeds. Spare me your whattaboutery regards ancient pagan civilisations and their history of taking slaves. Do you think this covers Islam for the Armenian genocide? Jizya tax? Modern day honour killings that go on in UK? And the Balkans suffered under the yoke of the Ottomans and have historical enmities going back centuries. What happened there was deep rooted and hard to untangle. One clear example I'd give you is the Barbary pirate states that the U.S went to war with over slave taking in the 19th century. They Barbary pirates petitioned the U.S with Sharia law. Slaving is allowed, see verses here. We can take your people from their ships in the Mediterranean and enslave them. There is no whattabboutery for this. The U.S went to war and got their people back. And as for your last quip that I would turn into a genocidal rapist minus food and money. Don't judge everyone by your own standards. It's clear this isn't your first kickback attempt. Who were you previously? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, New York Fleapit said: The 1st babysitter we ever hired was a junior colleague of my wife, a student teacher. A hijab wearing Yemeni woman. She was so amazing with our daughter. Patient, loving, playful. An amazing young woman who we still consider the best childminder we ever hired. We and the kids miss her since she graduated into a full time career. If I ever had to drop off at her house, she's 1st put her hijab on for modesty purposes, and I'd be welcomed like a friend into her home and be offered any amount of incredible food. Also, her husband was an undercover NYPD detective. It's incredible that people still want to bind all Muslims with radical Islam. As others have said, that makes all us Christians... Dylann Roof Stephen Paddock Devin Kelley James Holmes Adam Lanza Timothy McVeigh Michael Ryan Thomas Hamilton Eric Harris Dylan Klebold... We could continue. Nice one, mate. Stories like these are great to tell when people try to dehumanise entire groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, New York Fleapit said: The 1st babysitter we ever hired was a junior colleague of my wife, a student teacher. A hijab wearing Yemeni woman. She was so amazing with our daughter. Patient, loving, playful. An amazing young woman who we still consider the best childminder we ever hired. We and the kids miss her since she graduated into a full time career. If I ever had to drop off at her house, she's 1st put her hijab on for modesty purposes, and I'd be welcomed like a friend into her home and be offered any amount of incredible food. Also, her husband was an undercover NYPD detective. It's incredible that people still want to bind all Muslims with radical Islam. As others have said, that makes all us Christians... Dylann Roof Stephen Paddock Devin Kelley James Holmes Adam Lanza Timothy McVeigh Michael Ryan Thomas Hamilton Eric Harris Dylan Klebold... We could continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 hours ago, jack D and coke said: Hes a bit of a wank but that doesn’t make everything he says wrong. He’s grown up in a totally different place to what we know so it’s easy to dismiss him as simply a racist. His speech at oxford university highlights a lot of the life he saw around him. I can’t help but be impressed at how brave he is, he’s got enormous cajones for doing what he does and he keeps going despite the threats and harassment. I think jailing Tommy has been a spectacular OG tbh it’s got him worldwide headlines. I agree with much of what you're saying here, but I'd diplomatically go with 'misguided' instead of brave. ? I think you're wrong on your last point too. A real OG would have been not to jail him. The law has to be applied fairly and equally to all, which it has been. A point which has gone right over the heads of his supporters. What kind of precedent do you think it would set if the law turned a blind eye to Mr Robinsons carry on? 2 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said: To his acolytes he will be a martyr. To anyone with half a brain, he's just a bigger tosser. Correct. 1 hour ago, New York Fleapit said: The 1st babysitter we ever hired was a junior colleague of my wife, a student teacher. A hijab wearing Yemeni woman. She was so amazing with our daughter. Patient, loving, playful. An amazing young woman who we still consider the best childminder we ever hired. We and the kids miss her since she graduated into a full time career. If I ever had to drop off at her house, she's 1st put her hijab on for modesty purposes, and I'd be welcomed like a friend into her home and be offered any amount of incredible food. Also, her husband was an undercover NYPD detective. It's incredible that people still want to bind all Muslims with radical Islam. As others have said, that makes all us Christians... Dylann Roof Stephen Paddock Devin Kelley James Holmes Adam Lanza Timothy McVeigh Michael Ryan Thomas Hamilton Eric Harris Dylan Klebold... We could continue. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I’ll be honest I don’t think anyone has said or suggested all Muslims are evil. Whilst, I don’t think anyone is saying all Muslims are good. People are individuals, irrespective of race, colour, creed politics etc. Seems to me most people are saying the same, in the main, just the internet people make everything binary. People getting upset that people using terrorists an example that or all evil. Is just different side to coin of my best mate is Muslim so are all good. Both arguments are a bit moronic. That said it’s hard to deny we are currently experiencing some issues emanating from a cultural/religious issue; as we are with other things. These issues need to be looked at and we need to address them to make everyone’s life better. However, these need to be looked at on individual basis by case basis to establish patterns, trends whatever that we A collaborative approach does need to be taken towards this as the main positive change will come from the Muslim community making changes and stamping out certain beliefs:values which are counter to the world we live in. Tommy Robinson, imo, is a prick. Though that doesn’t mean some the stuff he saying isn’t valid. Also doesn’t mean he’s not being counter productive in his approach. The contempt stuff is really stupid for so so many reasons. Anyway my long winded point is people are pretty much saying the same thing terrorism, child molesting, racism are all bad that’s not up for debate is it? The problem with these discussion is it’s taking over by the more extreme and who just shout the loudest. That is something irrespective of side we all need to be wary off. Extremism is never good for anyone!!! I don't think that's the point, though. There are those here and elsewhere who believe some things are uniquely Muslim/Islamic problems. The main 2 discussed are Terrorism and child abuse. For every Rotherham, a Boston, Mass. For every Liege, a Santa Fe. It's not a difficult argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I’ll be honest I don’t think anyone has said or suggested all Muslims are evil. Whilst, I don’t think anyone is saying all Muslims are good. People are individuals, irrespective of race, colour, creed politics etc. Seems to me most people are saying the same, in the main, just the internet people make everything binary. People getting upset that people using terrorists an example that or all evil. Is just different side to coin of my best mate is Muslim so are all good. Both arguments are a bit moronic. That said it’s hard to deny we are currently experiencing some issues emanating from a cultural/religious issue; as we are with other things. These issues need to be looked at and we need to address them to make everyone’s life better. However, these need to be looked at on individual basis by case basis to establish patterns, trends whatever that we A collaborative approach does need to be taken towards this as the main positive change will come from the Muslim community making changes and stamping out certain beliefs:values which are counter to the world we live in. Tommy Robinson, imo, is a prick. Though that doesn’t mean some the stuff he saying isn’t valid. Also doesn’t mean he’s not being counter productive in his approach. The contempt stuff is really stupid for so so many reasons. Anyway my long winded point is people are pretty much saying the same thing terrorism, child molesting, racism are all bad that’s not up for debate is it? The problem with these discussion is it’s taking over by the more extreme and who just shout the loudest. That is something irrespective of side we all need to be wary off. Extremism is never good for anyone!!! True, but he hasn't been spotted at many child abuse cases allegedly perpetrated by white people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Allen Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 3 hours ago, jack D and coke said: His speech at oxford university highlights a lot of the life he saw around him. I can’t help but be impressed at how brave he is, he’s got enormous cajones for doing what he does and he keeps going despite the threats and harassment. I think jailing Tommy has been a spectacular OG tbh it’s got him worldwide headlines. Didn’t know much about him but just watched on YouTube that speech and it is a real eye-opener. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said: True, but he hasn't been spotted at many child abuse cases allegedly perpetrated by white people. Aw man nobody is saying white people dont abuse children or are deviants or horrible murdering arseholes just like anybody else can be. Can you point me to some cases of white men, sometimes in large groups of 20-30+ abusing Muslim or any other group of girls for 10-15 years and the authorities turning a blind eye and frightened to act? The labour parties in these areas also need emptying for doing nothing. They didn’t want to upset their Muslim vote, that’s absolutely outrageous. What we do know is no other ethnic group and considering how small percentage wise they are are involved in so many cases of such size and length in time carried out. To me it appears very deliberate, and they get their brothers and uncles involved in the fun too. That doesn’t happen in any other ethnic group. This is one of the main talking points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 hours ago, New York Fleapit said: The 1st babysitter we ever hired was a junior colleague of my wife, a student teacher. A hijab wearing Yemeni woman. She was so amazing with our daughter. Patient, loving, playful. An amazing young woman who we still consider the best childminder we ever hired. We and the kids miss her since she graduated into a full time career. If I ever had to drop off at her house, she's 1st put her hijab on for modesty purposes, and I'd be welcomed like a friend into her home and be offered any amount of incredible food. Also, her husband was an undercover NYPD detective. It's incredible that people still want to bind all Muslims with radical Islam. As others have said, that makes all us Christians... Dylann Roof Stephen Paddock Devin Kelley James Holmes Adam Lanza Timothy McVeigh Michael Ryan Thomas Hamilton Eric Harris Dylan Klebold... We could continue. Don't think religion had anything to do with the above ragtag bunch. What (loosely) ties them together is social exclusion/they're all white as far as I remember (some with supremacy notions) and love of guns ! What's the point ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 22 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I’ll be honest I don’t think anyone has said or suggested all Muslims are evil. Whilst, I don’t think anyone is saying all Muslims are good. People are individuals, irrespective of race, colour, creed politics etc. Seems to me most people are saying the same, in the main, just the internet people make everything binary. People getting upset that people using terrorists an example that or all evil. Is just different side to coin of my best mate is Muslim so are all good. Both arguments are a bit moronic. That said it’s hard to deny we are currently experiencing some issues emanating from a cultural/religious issue; as we are with other things. These issues need to be looked at and we need to address them to make everyone’s life better. However, these need to be looked at on individual basis by case basis to establish patterns, trends whatever that we A collaborative approach does need to be taken towards this as the main positive change will come from the Muslim community making changes and stamping out certain beliefs:values which are counter to the world we live in. Tommy Robinson, imo, is a prick. Though that doesn’t mean some the stuff he saying isn’t valid. Also doesn’t mean he’s not being counter productive in his approach. The contempt stuff is really stupid for so so many reasons. Anyway my long winded point is people are pretty much saying the same thing terrorism, child molesting, racism are all bad that’s not up for debate is it? The problem with these discussion is it’s taking over by the more extreme and who just shout the loudest. That is something irrespective of side we all need to be wary off. Extremism is never good for anyone!!! Very decent post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: Very decent post. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, felix said: Don't think religion had anything to do with the above ragtag bunch. What (loosely) ties them together is social exclusion/they're all white as far as I remember (some with supremacy notions) and love of guns ! What's the point ? The point being demonizing one person's faith because of the actions of a radical element within that faith. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking terrorism perpetrated by Islamic extremists is solely or even mainly based upon religion or belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Agreed. Balanced and no air of superiority for his thinking. I've got no issue with people disliking TR. I get that and understand it. As long as it is for educated reasons and not just going along with what the robotic masses tell them on social media. My main issue is being called a Nazi/racist etc for not disliking him. It is all just one big one way street of tolerance to the far left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Aw man nobody is saying white people dont abuse children or are deviants or horrible murdering arseholes just like anybody else can be. Can you point me to some cases of white men, sometimes in large groups of 20-30+ abusing Muslim or any other group of girls for 10-15 years and the authorities turning a blind eye and frightened to act? The labour parties in these areas also need emptying for doing nothing. They didn’t want to upset their Muslim vote, that’s absolutely outrageous. What we do know is no other ethnic group and considering how small percentage wise they are are involved in so many cases of such size and length in time carried out. To me it appears very deliberate, and they get their brothers and uncles involved in the fun too. That doesn’t happen in any other ethnic group. This is one of the main talking points. I'll assume you mean apart from 70's entertainers and a good amount of politicians, lords and other assorted scallywags? It seems child abuse was on a massive scale within the BBC, MP's. All very white institutions. Aw, man. Edited June 2, 2018 by New York Fleapit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said: The point being demonizing one person's faith because of the actions of a radical element within that faith. Let's not kid ourselves into thinking terrorism perpetrated by Islamic extremists is solely or even mainly based upon religion or belief. You don't think martyrdom; paradise and Alluhu Akbar play any role in Islamic extremism ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Just now, felix said: You don't think martyrdom; paradise and Alluhu Akbar play any role in Islamic extremism ? That is absolutely and clearly not what I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 24 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Aw man nobody is saying white people dont abuse children or are deviants or horrible murdering arseholes just like anybody else can be. Can you point me to some cases of white men, sometimes in large groups of 20-30+ abusing Muslim or any other group of girls for 10-15 years and the authorities turning a blind eye and frightened to act? The labour parties in these areas also need emptying for doing nothing. They didn’t want to upset their Muslim vote, that’s absolutely outrageous. What we do know is no other ethnic group and considering how small percentage wise they are are involved in so many cases of such size and length in time carried out. To me it appears very deliberate, and they get their brothers and uncles involved in the fun too. That doesn’t happen in any other ethnic group. This is one of the main talking points. Also, if you want to go a little further down the scale, gangs of white child abusers were very active around this time, too. The most notorious being this guy and his vile friends. Not only did they rape kids, they murdered them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Cooke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, New York Fleapit said: That is absolutely and clearly not what I said. ..would be interested to hear how terrorism committed by Islamic extremists isn't solely of mainly based on religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: just going along with what the robotic masses tell them on social media. Ironically, Mr Robinson's primary means of garnering support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, felix said: ..would be interested to hear how terrorism committed by Islamic extremists isn't solely of mainly based on religion. Economic expoitation. Resource extraction. Political meddling. Regime change. Occupation. Proxy wars. Etc. (All going on for well over a hundred years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, felix said: ..would be interested to hear how terrorism committed by Islamic extremists isn't solely of mainly based on religion. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/terrorist-extremists-dont-kill-for-islam-or-christianity/ Start here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Just now, Governor Tarkin said: Economic expoitation. Resource extraction. Political meddling. Regime change. Occupation. Proxy wars. Etc. (All going on for well over a hundred years). Yeah. Also, it's a huge stretch to say ISIS is inspired only by Islam or the Koran. Doing so tarnishes the lives and beliefs of billions of people and fosters the division and hatred ISIS so desperately crave. ISIS is not motivated by religion. It's populated by criminals and addicts - reflected almost always now in the vulnerable young guys it and its followers recruit to carry out terrorist attacks. There is nothing religious or holy about these people. They do not represent the people of Indonesia, hijab-wearing women, or the town of Luton (just to grab some random examples). It's a safe bet most Muslim people around the world find them abhorrent and have rejected them completely - not least because Muslims themselves have been the overwhelming victims of ISIS violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Ironically, Mr Robinson's primary means of garnering support. He reports imo, not indoctrinate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said: Economic expoitation. Resource extraction. Political meddling. Regime change. Occupation. Proxy wars. Etc. (All going on for well over a hundred years). Whilst this is all true (and Bin Laden confirmed as much before 9/11) ..it's the brotherhood of Islam that comes under combined attack when any of the above occurs - so it's daft imo to say religion isn't even mainly involved. You could say it's the thread that holds together, those who react to the above.. There's no similar religious thread to NY Fleapit's list. Some may have been from Christian backgrounds - but the common denominator isn't religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 minute ago, i8hibsh said: He reports imo, not indoctrinate. Well he's not very good at it. Contempt of court (is it twice now?) and asking the accused outside the court if they've got their prison bags ready. Can't think of any other reporters that do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 1 hour ago, New York Fleapit said: I don't think that's the point, though. There are those here and elsewhere who believe some things are uniquely Muslim/Islamic problems. The main 2 discussed are Terrorism and child abuse. For every Rotherham, a Boston, Mass. For every Liege, a Santa Fe. It's not a difficult argument. They are not uniquely Muslim problems, neither are they problems universal to all Muslims. However, there is an element of Muslim society which perceives young non Muslim girls as fair game. There is a larger element which, if not condones, tolerates this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said: Well he's not very good at it. Contempt of court (is it twice now?) and asking the accused outside the court if they've got their prison bags ready. Can't think of any other reporters that do that. He has no etiquette for sure but he does it his way and does not claim a wage then all good. Many people watch so he is clearly doing something right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said: They are not uniquely Muslim problems, neither are they problems universal to all Muslims. However, there is an element of Muslim society which perceives young non Muslim girls as fair game. There is a larger element which, if not condones, tolerates this. Your last 2 lines are not exclusively Muslim. Define ''larger'' element. How ''large'' of 1.5bn, or 22 percent of the Earth's population? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 26 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/terrorist-extremists-dont-kill-for-islam-or-christianity/ Start here. Some Islamic terrorists eat pork and drink !! It doesn't give great examples of religion not playing a significant part in attacks mentioned :- Ziyed Ben Belgacem; the Paris airport attacker , put a gun to a soldiers head, declaring "I'm here to die for Allah". !! The Manchester arena bomber. Reported as becoming "more and more religious". Stayed with his dad who gave the call to prayer at the local Mosque and associated with Abu Qatada . The one incident probably not religiously motivated - the Nice attacks, but even then - the mentally unstable killer was found with an Islamic State flag screensaver and the Charlie Hebdo cartoons on his laptop . If these are the non-religious examples.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I don’t think anyone has said these are ‘uniquely’ Muslim issues; not that my interpretation anyway. I think that your interpretation to be honest and a wrong one. As I said people are very binary about this stuff. These cases need to be looked at on a individual basis. To not investigate potential racial, religious to understand if their is a link and changes can be made really is letting down those who have suffered. Not for one second I’m saying it is but authorities to investigate anc make a discussion, Plus its not not an argument it’s a discussion!!! If you view as argument your trying to get people to think your view is right. That’s s huge part of problem imho. People are too concerned with being seen to be ‘right’ as opppsed to anything else. Very much agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, New York Fleapit said: Your last 2 lines are not exclusively Muslim. Define ''larger'' element. How ''large'' of 1.5bn, or 22 percent of the Earth's population? I'm aware of that. I have no idea how big it is but this wilful ignoring that it exists doesn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, felix said: Some Islamic terrorists eat pork and drink !! It doesn't give great examples of religion not playing a significant part in attacks mentioned :- Ziyed Ben Belgacem; the Paris airport attacker , put a gun to a soldiers head, declaring "I'm here to die for Allah". !! The Manchester arena bomber. Reported as becoming "more and more religious". Stayed with his dad who gave the call to prayer at the local Mosque and associated with Abu Qatada . The one incident probably not religiously motivated - the Nice attacks, but even then - the mentally unstable killer was found with an Islamic State flag screensaver and the Charlie Hebdo cartoons on his laptop . If these are the non-religious examples.... I'm gonna take my Hearts screensaver off before committing my next atrocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: Whats your point? He may or may not be a racist prick, doesn’t change the validity of his point does it? Play the man not the ball too many people are incapable of separating the person from argument. That’s not constructive tbh. Yes it does! If he was a campaigner against child abuse and appeared at numerous trials or ''reported'' on more cases his point would absolutely be more valid than just fronting up when it's a ''Muslim Gang''. No one is saying he doesn't have a point, but his point is of course blighted by the FACT he is a racist prick and only seems concerned when the crime is perpetrated by Muslims. Unless of course I missed him at the numerous Stuart Hall court appearances. And many others. Edited June 2, 2018 by New York Fleapit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said: I'm aware of that. I have no idea how big it is but this wilful ignoring that it exists doesn't help. It's also useful to deal with facts rather than blind assumptions when making an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 7 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: Whats your point? He may or may not be a racist prick, doesn’t change the validity of his point does it? Play the man not the ball too many people are incapable of separating the person from argument. That’s not constructive tbh. It’s not even playing the man not ball its just what about what about what about ad nauseum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 4 hours ago, jack D and coke said: Hes a bit of a wank but that doesn’t make everything he says wrong. He’s grown up in a totally different place to what we know so it’s easy to dismiss him as simply a racist. His speech at oxford university highlights a lot of the life he saw around him. I can’t help but be impressed at how brave he is, he’s got enormous cajones for doing what he does and he keeps going despite the threats and harassment. I think jailing Tommy has been a spectacular OG tbh it’s got him worldwide headlines. Don't have a whole lot wrong with what you said Jack except the last part. It can't be considered an OG for putting someone in jail that's committed a crime, especially when they have a previous criminal record. Headlines are neither here nor there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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