Hard Brexit

[shaun.lawson]

12 hours ago, Adam_the_legend said:

If you consider how much money and influence the UK has injected into the EU project since we joined it, the political nuance behind the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties, the uk’s refusal to join the Euro, it makes these bloody club member comparisons completely useless. 

 

Well yes. We had a lot of influence and a lot of power. The single market was our idea. EU expansion eastwards was our idea. We secured opt-outs from the euro and even (until Labour rightly reversed it), the Social Chapter. 

 

But having been inside the tent pissing out, we're now outside pissing in. Having spent our entire time while in moaning and demanding a bunch of opt-outs, we've spent our entire time since 23 June 2016 still moaning and demanding a bunch of opt-ins. We're like a ****ing 7 year old child.

 

Quote

I don’t want to be part of an EU superstate 

 

An EU superstate is an impossibility.

 

11 hours ago, Adam_the_legend said:

 

Who is suggesting we think we can get everything without compromises?... 

 

... You either believe in the EU project or you don’t.

 

      "Who is suggesting we have a black and white view of this?" Next sentence: "I have a black and white view of this".

 

Quote

If it served its original purpose as a trading bloc I’d have no problems, but the push for ever closer political and economical Union is not something I believe in or want.

 

A grammar Nazi interjects: it's 'economic', not 'economical'. Sorry, just a pet annoyance of mine.

 

Quote

 

In actual fact I believe due the the nature of the EU the closer the union the more likely it will fail. And when it does fail

 

"I believe X will happen without even a shred of evidence. And when X happens (even though I don't have a shred of evidence)..."

 

By the way: if it 'fails', what is it that you think will happen? The EU will just wake up one day and announce "it's a fair cop guv, we've failed. Time to disband"? The UK government is a total failure and the UK system's been failing for decades... yet it's still here. 

 

Though if the EU were to disintegrate at some point, it'd be very bad news. International institutions are our only real protection against every nation state for itself. Every nation state for itself will - because it always has - result in war.

Edited June 18, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[shaun.lawson]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

That's a good answer, but in fairness the question asked was why is it so difficult to leave.  It isn't difficult at all; you decide to leave, post notice, and wait two years.  I don't think that's difficult at all.  It's possible some people think that waiting two years is a bit long.  I don't, but then I'm not 8.  And even if it seems like a long time, it's because a group of sovereign governments agreed to that notice period.

 

Any difficulty in this process has been caused by two factors.  One is the naive belief of many voters and many politicians in the UK that you could get the same access to the markets of the EU 27 without making the same compromises you do today.  The other is the ineptitude of the British government in working out a clear view of what it wants and how to achieve it.

 

This is from the official campaign brochure of Vote Leave. Not Leave.EU, the bunch of charlatans and traitors funded and helped by Russia; the supposedly respectable 'Vote Leave'.

 

Leave aside the bollocks about 350m for the NHS and Turkey joining the EU. This is what Vote Leave said on page 11.

 

"Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden stop - we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave".

 

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/55fd82d8ebad646cec000001/attachments/original/1463496002/Why_Vote_Leave.pdf?1463496002

 

Look at the reaction of press and public after the referendum vote. How they demanded Article 50 was triggered at once; how anyone who thought it might be an idea for the government to have the remotest clue first was shouted down and called a traitor; how anyone who recognised the immense complexity of what would be involved was accused of "talking the country down".

 

Even Vote Leave recognised this complexity. But because our rotten, right wing, corrupt media leads a bunch of rotten, right wing, corrupt politicians, we did this instead. We have a deeply unserious political system - and few things could be scarier than it being about to exist with no checks from the EU at all.

Edited June 18, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Thunderstruck]

On 17/06/2018 at 01:13, shaun.lawson said:

 

 

Almost all of the rest of Northern Europe is in the EU. And hasn't been ruled by Tory *******s for most of the last 40 years.

 

Let that sink in. 

 

Shaun,

 

Have you turned into Spacey and taken to ignoring questions?

 

Do you know who is the author of the above graphic?

 

As I said earlier, it would be useful to be able to check whether this is genuine or another bit of statisticulation. 

 

If it is genuine then perhaps we can say that Scotland has not suffered as badly from being “ruled by Tory ******* for most of the last 40 years” as some might suggest. 

[JamboX2]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

That's a good answer, but in fairness the question asked was why is it so difficult to leave.  It isn't difficult at all; you decide to leave, post notice, and wait two years.  I don't think that's difficult at all.  It's possible some people think that waiting two years is a bit long.  I don't, but then I'm not 8.  And even if it seems like a long time, it's because a group of sovereign governments agreed to that notice period.

 

Any difficulty in this process has been caused by two factors.  One is the naive belief of many voters and many politicians in the UK that you could get the same access to the markets of the EU 27 without making the same compromises you do today.  The other is the ineptitude of the British government in working out a clear view of what it wants and how to achieve it.

 

Pretty much in our mutual quotes sums up this mess. 

[jake]

6 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

This is from the official campaign brochure of Vote Leave. Not Leave.EU, the bunch of charlatans and traitors funded and helped by Russia; 

Can you provide evidence of Russian involvement.

 

[jake]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

You either didn't read my post or else you didn't understand it.  If you had, you wouldn't have posted your comment about "closer union".

 

You won.  Get over it. 

You lost get over it would be more apt.

[Cade]

Elements of the Tory Party have been wanting out since we went in 40 years ago.

 

They've had 40 years to plan for this.

 

Now we're actually leaving and nobody seems to have a clue what to do.

 

It's laughable.

[Ulysses]

12 hours ago, Cade said:

Elements of the Tory Party have been wanting out since we went in 40 years ago.

 

They've had 40 years to plan for this.

 

Now we're actually leaving and nobody seems to have a clue what to do.

 

It's laughable.

 

 

 

[jake]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

 

How brave of you to post a selfie

[Ulysses]

16 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

statisticulation. 

 

 

 

  

[Ulysses]

Looks like the European Arrest Warrant will be a goner, at least as far as the UK is concerned.

 

BBC News: UK 'can't keep European Arrest Warrant after Brexit'

[AlphonseCapone]

19 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Looks like the European Arrest Warrant will be a goner, at least as far as the UK is concerned.

 

BBC News: UK 'can't keep European Arrest Warrant after Brexit'

 

Ideal. Be able to skip town to Italy soon. 

 

See on the NHS funding, if this comes from increased taxes, how does that work with Scotland? We'll get increased funding for the NHS from Barnet formula but will our taxes go up as tax is now reserved to Holyrood? 

[Ulysses]

Just now, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Ideal. Be able to skip town to Italy soon. 

 

See on the NHS funding, if this comes from increased taxes, how does that work with Scotland? We'll get increased funding for the NHS from Barnet formula but will our taxes go up as tax is now reserved to Holyrood? 

 

 

On the first one, I think it's a sign of how seriously the EU 27 are taking things.  There are far more requests from them for UK-based suspects than the other way round, so not being able to use the European Arrest Warrant is a hassle for them.

 

On the second, I suspect that the extra money will be borrowed anyway.  The easiest way to pretend there's a Brexit dividend is to borrow the money, because even stupid people will realise that paying more tax is not a dividend.  Well, maybe.

[AlphonseCapone]

27 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

On the first one, I think it's a sign of how seriously the EU 27 are taking things.  There are far more requests from them for UK-based suspects than the other way round, so not being able to use the European Arrest Warrant is a hassle for them.

 

On the second, I suspect that the extra money will be borrowed anyway.  The easiest way to pretend there's a Brexit dividend is to borrow the money, because even stupid people will realise that paying more tax is not a dividend.  Well, maybe.

 

Just had a quick look at the stats, over 13,500 versus less than 500 requests. That's a crazy difference. I expected it to be the other way round for some reason. 

[jack D and coke]

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/brexit-has-become-englands-white-whale/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[NANOJAMBO]

On 6/20/2018 at 11:19, jack D and coke said:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/brexit-has-become-englands-white-whale/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

Brexit must happen. Of course it must, for the people have decreed it should and, in this instance, their command cannot, as it can be in other circumstances, be countermanded. That leaves ample room for argument over the precise shape of Brexit – for it turns out there are many kinds of Brexit – but the essence of the matter is clear: Brexit must mean Brexit.

**********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

I find the above very puzzling -  the people voted on Brexit and they're going to have it , because anything else is undemocratic. So what is Brexit ? No one knows now or knew at the time of the referendum.   Brexit must mean Brexit - but at what price to the economy, cost of living, loss of jobs etc, etc, etc. In my view people talk about Brexit as though it is a tangible entity that was set out at the time of the referendum. (Some) People actually think the referendum meant (or worse, was all about ) leaving the customs union - it wasn't. What Brexit was supposed to be and what it mean / cost to the country was never spelt out and organs like the Spectator are saying , in effect , we must proceed , no matter what because that is what the people wanted. 

 

Anyway , I stumbled across this the other day and it is very interesting reading if you want some of  the major issues explained and put into context. 

https://policyscotland.gla.ac.uk/blog-sir-ivan-rogers-speech-text-in-full/

[Cade]

AS has been said before, what should have happened was a cross-party national congress to work out what kind of Brexit was best for the nation.

 

What we've got is small factions of Tories blackmailing the PM and fighting between themselves and nobody has a clue what kind of Brexit we're even asking for, never mind what kind of deal is being actively negotiated.

It's a complete mess.

[Victorian]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

AS has been said before, what should have happened was a cross-party national congress to work out what kind of Brexit was best for the nation.

 

What we've got is small factions of Tories blackmailing the PM and fighting between themselves and nobody has a clue what kind of Brexit we're even asking for, never mind what kind of deal is being actively negotiated.

It's a complete mess.

 

Yep.    A grand coalition / Royal Commission,   working independently from but in co-operation with the government.     Answerable to a special parliamentary sub committee.    Properly organised,   sophisticated management.

 

What we got was blind control freakery.    

[Francis Albert]

5 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

Yep.    A grand coalition / Royal Commission,   working independently from but in co-operation with the government.     Answerable to a special parliamentary sub committee.    Properly organised,   sophisticated management.

 

What we got was blind control freakery.    

So who would be on this Commission and on the parliamentary subcommittee? I think inevitably the  great and the good, experts, and MPs  who predominantly predicted that Brexit (and even merely holding the referendum or  a vote for Leave) would have immediate and long term baleful outcomes (incidentally they did not seem deterred from making those confident predictions by the now widely held view that no-one knew what Brexit meant … that only became an issue when the electorate gave the wrong answer).

What you suggest would lead to a Brexit as close as possible to Remain … which would of course be the point.

[AuldReekie444]

7 hours ago, Cade said:

AS has been said before, what should have happened was a cross-party national congress to work out what kind of Brexit was best for the nation.

 

What we've got is small factions of Tories blackmailing the PM and fighting between themselves and nobody has a clue what kind of Brexit we're even asking for, never mind what kind of deal is being actively negotiated.

It's a complete mess.

nah, its about power and authority. so this congress either has the power to rule, or it doesn't. 

if it does, the people didn't vote for it.

if it doesn't, its powerless. 

 

 

[Victorian]

7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

So who would be on this Commission and on the parliamentary subcommittee? I think inevitably the  great and the good, experts, and MPs  who predominantly predicted that Brexit (and even merely holding the referendum or  a vote for Leave) would have immediate and long term baleful outcomes (incidentally they did not seem deterred from making those confident predictions by the now widely held view that no-one knew what Brexit meant … that only became an issue when the electorate gave the wrong answer).

What you suggest would lead to a Brexit as close as possible to Remain … which would of course be the point.

 

So?     The best interests of the country for trade,  business and jobs depends greatly on achieving the stability of continued access to free trade and customs arrangements.     That must take absolute precedence over any notion of delivering what 52% blindly voted for on a bogus premise.     Are we supposed to accept economic and societal suicide for the sake of a democratic sham?

[Victorian]

 

Dp.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Victorian

[The Mighty Thor]

We there's a clear indicator of how business views the current shambles. Airbus considering their on going presence in the UK. 14,000 direct jobs and countless more feeding their supply chain. If it's a no deal then they're offski.

 

 

[jake]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

So?     The best interests of the country for trade,  business and jobs depends greatly on achieving the stability of continued access to free trade and customs arrangements.     That must take absolute precedence over any notion of delivering what 52% blindly voted for on a bogus premise.     Are we supposed to accept economic and societal suicide for the sake of a democratic sham?

Are you suggesting we just let business run our affairs?

Or is it just this particular vote you describe as a sham?

 

Societal suicide ?

What does that mean?

 

 

 

 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, jake said:

Are you suggesting we just let business run our affairs?

Or is it just this particular vote you describe as a sham?

 

Societal suicide ?

What does that mean?

 

 

 

 

 

No I am not.   But macro trade and business matters directly affect the economy and employment,  which in turn directly affects tax proceeds,  etc.     Brexit is such a profoundly important thing to get right that trade and business must take absolute primacy.    ****ing it up could easily cause an economic tipping point of business recession and job losses which would reduce further the tax revenues that fund all our public services.      That's societal suicide.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

We there's a clear indicator of how business views the current shambles. Airbus considering their on going presence in the UK. 14,000 direct jobs and countless more feeding their supply chain. If it's a no deal then they're offski.

 

 

 

Are their masters not in Toulouse?  

[Francis Albert]

7 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

So?     The best interests of the country for trade,  business and jobs depends greatly on achieving the stability of continued access to free trade and customs arrangements.     That must take absolute precedence over any notion of delivering what 52% blindly voted for on a bogus premise.     Are we supposed to accept economic and societal suicide for the sake of a democratic sham?

Nearly 85% of MPs blindly voted to hold a referendum the outcome of which in your view would be "economic and societal suicide".  

If they are to ignore the vote in the "democratic sham" they  created the  least they can do is first step down and seek re-election.

[The Mighty Thor]

4 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Are their masters not in Toulouse?  

And?

 

It's 14,000 direct jobs and 10,000 indirect jobs. That's 24,000 mortgages getting paid and a shot load of money flowing through the local economies, jeopardized by strong and stable's inability to rein her party in.

What difference does the head office address make?

[Victorian]

2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Nearly 85% of MPs blindly voted to hold a referendum the outcome of which in your view would be "economic and societal suicide".  

If they are to ignore the vote in the "democratic sham" they  created the  least they can do is first step down and seek re-election.

 

Yes it was an omni-****-up by more than just the Tories but it was right wing politics that conceived and pursued it for many years and it was the Tories' internal,  philosophical dispute that enabled it to happen.     That shitehouse Cameron arrogantly believed he could settle the argument and win it for his own beliefs,   more so his legacy,  but he miscalculated.     His own colleagues actively engaged in a campaign of deception to bring us to this shambles.    Colleagues who continue to work the current PM up the farter.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

And?

 

It's 14,000 direct jobs and 10,000 indirect jobs. That's 24,000 mortgages getting paid and a shot load of money flowing through the local economies, jeopardized by strong and stable's inability to rein her party in.

What difference does the head office address make?

 

It matters because you have to question where the "complaint" is coming from. Are the bosses in the UK being instructed to voice their "concerns" real or fabricated? 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Seymour M Hersh

[Victorian]

Airbus is estimated to contribute £7bn to the UK economy,  as well as all those jobs.     Regardless of wondering about the motives of them starting to make noises re Brexit,    who would not sit up and take notice?      If anyone might not give a monkeys,    it will be this Tory government.      Maybe Liam Fox will be on soon to promise us another 14,000 employing,   £7bn contributing company in the wonderful post-Brexit world of world trade deals.

[The Mighty Thor]

38 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It matters because you have to question where the "complaint" is coming from. Are the bosses in the UK being instructed to voice their "concerns" real or fabricated? 

Where the complaint originates is irrelevant. The employees are British. It's British jobs paying British mortgages. To suggest the complaint is null and void because it came from the Airbus HQ is the kind of pish one would read in the daily heil.

 

I'd imagine the multi-national owners or UK managers (or indeed anyone with half a brain) are starting to twitch a bit as the cluster feck unfolds.

[Pans Jambo]

58 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Airbus is estimated to contribute £7bn to the UK economy,  as well as all those jobs.     Regardless of wondering about the motives of them starting to make noises re Brexit,    who would not sit up and take notice?      If anyone might not give a monkeys,    it will be this Tory government.      Maybe Liam Fox will be on soon to promise us another 14,000 employing,   £7bn contributing company in the wonderful post-Brexit world of world trade deals.

Probably closer to 100,000 jobs over the supply chain. I see Mini are looking seriously at their options as well. A bit on the news said 70% of the car is made up of parts built in the EU & assembled in England. 

 

Nobody can think Brexit isnt going to be painful. Be like the 80’s again!

Edited June 22, 2018 by Pans Jambo

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Where the complaint originates is irrelevant. The employees are British. It's British jobs paying British mortgages. To suggest the complaint is null and void because it came from the Airbus HQ is the kind of pish one would read in the daily heil.

 

I'd imagine the multi-national owners or UK managers (or indeed anyone with half a brain) are starting to twitch a bit as the cluster feck unfolds.

 

This is the same Airbus who threatened to pull out of the UK years ago if we didn't join the Euro. Does this not even give you the slightest pause for thought as to their motive and conviction to actually do it?  And if French or Dutch politicians were putting heat on them to make these threats then yes it does matter.

[The Mighty Thor]

15 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

This is the same Airbus who threatened to pull out of the UK years ago if we didn't join the Euro. Does this not even give you the slightest pause for thought as to their motive and conviction to actually do it?  And if French or Dutch politicians were putting heat on them to make these threats then yes it does matter.

If it was one company bleating on then yes, I might pause for thought. Its not one company though. Its two today alone. And the outgoing head of the CBI. You reckon there's anything in it or have the French and Dutch politicians got to everyone? 

[Seymour M Hersh]

10 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

If it was one company bleating on then yes, I might pause for thought. Its not one company though. Its two today alone. And the outgoing head of the CBI. You reckon there's anything in it or have the French and Dutch politicians got to everyone? 

 

And the other one is BMW! C'mon have a think about it. 

[shaun.lawson]

Seymour thinks Airbus and BMW, massive multinationals with large profit motives, are being dictated to by French, Dutch and German politicians.  

I'd love to know what goes on in Brexiteers' heads. To see a continent positively teeming with enemies; of Macchiavellian intrigue all out to screw us. As opposed to the reality: that we're doing an outstanding, world class job of screwing ourselves. To the point of intimidating Parliament into denying the country any exit whatever if (sorry, when) Brexit turns out to be a burning building. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Thunderstruck]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

And the other one is BMW! C'mon have a think about it. 

 

I’d be more convinced by Airbus if it wasn’t considering moving more of its production/supply chain to China which, last time I checked, was outside the EU. 

 

Yes, these are real concerns for British industry but multinationals and opportunistic behaviour are hardly strangers to each other. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

I’d be more convinced by Airbus if it wasn’t considering moving more of its production/supply chain to China which, last time I checked, was outside the EU. 

 

Yes, these are real concerns for British industry but multinationals and opportunistic behaviour are hardly strangers to each other. 

 

And let's not forget without the support of the UK Airbus would not have been able to cover its budget overruns on the A400m! All this the week before a gathering of EU leaders and some think there is no correlation. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Seymour M Hersh

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

And the other one is BMW! C'mon have a think about it. 

I'm not really sure where you're coming from on this. I assume you think it's all a bit of rabble rousing by those sneaky French, Dutch and now German politicians and that none of the will come to pass?

 

Have you considered the other alternative? The one where there's no deal and thousands of highly paid, highly skilled jobs leave the UK with nothing to replace them? Not because of lack of skill or productivity but solely because of the conservative party's civil warfare. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

I definitely think it's desperate sabre rattling by remainers who think their meal ticket is allied to the EU . I also think barring the Dutch  the French and German EU enthusiasts are desperate to punish the UK for the temerity of having voted to leave. No deal does not mean that thousands of highly skilled jobs leave the UK. Have you absolutely no faith in Great Britain?

[Space Mackerel]

6 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

I’d be more convinced by Airbus if it wasn’t considering moving more of its production/supply chain to China which, last time I checked, was outside the EU. 

 

Yes, these are real concerns for British industry but multinationals and opportunistic behaviour are hardly strangers to each other. 

 

Aircraft bits are a bit different from say car bits in regards to testing/fatigue etc. I doubt I would get on a plane knowing it had counterfeit parts fitted. 

 

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I definitely think it's desperate sabre rattling by remainers who think their meal ticket is allied to the EU . I also think barring the Dutch  the French and German EU enthusiasts are desperate to punish the UK for the temerity of having voted to leave. No deal does not mean that thousands of highly skilled jobs leave the UK. Have you absolutely no faith in Great Britain?

 

So where are these great British companies that will employ these highly skilled workers? 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Boris said:

 

So where are these great British companies that will employ these highly skilled workers? 

 

These companies are not British in the first place so perhaps Boeing will see an opportunity.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

These companies are not British in the first place so perhaps Boeing will see an opportunity.

Ah, so not so much faith in Britain, rather which foreign company can pick up the pieces? 

 

Sounds like a plan!

[Thunderstruck]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Aircraft bits are a bit different from say car bits in regards to testing/fatigue etc. I doubt I would get on a plane knowing it had counterfeit parts fitted. 

 

 

I would look for a “made in” sticker before getting on one of the smaller Airbus aircraft...

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/airbus-china-factory-a320-2015-8?r=US&IR=T

 

I would be concerned if the wings made in Wales were outsourced to the lowest bidder. 

 

That aside, the fact that there is no issue within Airbus over existing plants in the US and China or with non-EU suppliers such as BF Goodrich (landing gear from US and Canada) makes this concern over Brexit seem like a bit of politics. 

[Thunderstruck]

14 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

These companies are not British in the first place so perhaps Boeing will see an opportunity.

 

Boeing is already here. 

 

https://www.boeing.co.uk/boeing-in-the-uk.page

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I definitely think it's desperate sabre rattling by remainers who think their meal ticket is allied to the EU . I also think barring the Dutch  the French and German EU enthusiasts are desperate to punish the UK for the temerity of having voted to leave. No deal does not mean that thousands of highly skilled jobs leave the UK. Have you absolutely no faith in Great Britain?

Thanks for replying.

 

I have no faith whatsoever. No deal and most likely a shit deal will see jobs and companies leave the UK. No question of that. Perhaps not on day 1 but it will happen.

So who or what fills the void. Service jobs? Border force and customs jobs?

What happens politically? The raison d'etre of the current Tory party is gone once they achieve Brexit, although it will probably continue to devour itself over some other bogeyman issue around immigration or some other fictitious pish.

Life will undoubtedly go on after 29th March 2019 but we'll all likely be poorer for it.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

I would look for a “made in” sticker before getting on one of the smaller Airbus aircraft...

 

http://uk.businessinsider.com/airbus-china-factory-a320-2015-8?r=US&IR=T

 

I would be concerned if the wings made in Wales were outsourced to the lowest bidder. 

 

That aside, the fact that there is no issue within Airbus over existing plants in the US and China or with non-EU suppliers such as BF Goodrich (landing gear from US and Canada) makes this concern over Brexit seem like a bit of politics. 

Those non EU suppliers that I would imagine have trade deals with the eu? 

 

At the moment, no deal is looking a possibility, therefore UK not so attractive? 

 

Until a deal, if any, is struck, you can't lump the UK in with other non EU nations. 

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

I definitely think it's desperate sabre rattling by remainers who think their meal ticket is allied to the EU . I also think barring the Dutch  the French and German EU enthusiasts are desperate to punish the UK for the temerity of having voted to leave. No deal does not mean that thousands of highly skilled jobs leave the UK. Have you absolutely no faith in Great Britain?

 

 

Holy shit. Even the UK government knows no deal is a catastrophe scenario. Yet we now have our own Foreign Secretary saying "**** business". 

 

Brexit = the lunatics taking over the asylum. And you're one of them. We can only hope that Europe saves the UK from itself, and deluded quarter-wits like you who seem to think it's 1940, when it's actually 2018.