Hard Brexit

[shaun.lawson]

@Ulysses: the direct link doesn't work either      

 

Anyhoo, the image I posted was of today's Sunday Times front page. Which reports that the government has drawn up scenarios in the event of no deal Brexit. Not the worst case scenario, but only the second worst case, projects that:

 

- Day 1: Port of Dover collapses

 

- Day 2: Supermarkets in Cornwall and Scotland run out of food

 

- Day 14: All hospitals have run out of medicine

 

- Day 20: No petrol left either.

 

In the meantime: Lawson wants French citizenship; Farage says "he never said Brexit would be a success"; Fox "doesn't want to talk about US trade deals"; Hannan says it's all Remainers' fault; and Davis, whose magic Korean-style buffer zone must've been some sort of practical joke, has apparently told Denis MacShane that "it's over". 

 

Come for Brexit. Stay for Threads.      

[The Mighty Thor]

To be fair Shaun it was always going to come to a point where the government would run out of porkies to tell as the lack of action becomes evident against their own countdown clock. That there is no alternative being put forward is the worrying thing. Corbyn is shuffling along to their beat too and there's no mainstream alternative voice. No one is putting any pressure on what is a very fragile gov't 

[Captain Sausage]

The fact that Corbyn and his ragtag shambles of a shadow cabinet can't land any meaningful punches on, clearly, the most inept government we've had in a long time speaks volumes.

 

We need a strong opposition to hold a government to account. The current government seem intent on a race to the bottom, and Labour can't seem to build sustained gains.

 

I just don't understand how, given the reality that is playing out, the LibDems aren't making up ground either. At this point, I'd vote for any party that would provide an in-out referendum given the information we have now (i.e. Brexit side would have a much weaker hand to deal with their bullshit and I have a small amount of faith left in our country to see though it to the utter shambles that awaits our departure from the EU).

 

Maybe I'm just naive, and people are actually happy with the current set-up and where the country is headed...

[Ulysses]

4 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

.....and Davis, whose magic Korean-style buffer zone must've been some sort of practical joke....

 

'scuse me, pal, there's already been a successful proof of concept. 

 

See here?  One invisible border in action.

 

 

 

 

 

You can thank me later. 

[Cade]

House of Lords spent weeks debating and voting on the Brexit Bill.

 

The incompetent Tory govt has scheduled the re-reading of it in the Commons to be introduced, debated and voted on in a single day.

They're trying hard to force it through unaltered.

Democracy is under threat in this country.

[Doogz]

6 minutes ago, Cade said:

House of Lords spent weeks debating and voting on the Brexit Bill.

 

The incompetent Tory govt has scheduled the re-reading of it in the Commons to be introduced, debated and voted on in a single day.

They're trying hard to force it through unaltered.

Democracy is under threat in this country.

Not happy about what the Government are doing on Brexit however the usual argument is if The House of Lords interfere then that is undemocratic given they are unelected.

[Cade]

Strange that the Tories resist all reforms in the House of Lords, at the same time as screaming about the "undemocratic EU".

[Doogz]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Strange that the Tories resist all reforms in the House of Lords

That's not 100% accurate:

Currently their position is reform is not a priority. Previously although they were responsible for Nick Cleggs reform bill be dropped in 2012 they did actually introduce reforms in 2014. Still I wouldn't be at all surprised to see their priorities change as a result of the HOL delays on Brexit.

[Victorian]

So today,    chief Brexit wallah David Davies has basically admitted that his government are still arguing amongst themselves over fundamental positions regarding Brexit to take forward into negotiations.     He's rumoured to be about to resign.

 

This is a criminally negligent and fraudulent government.      They couldn't exit a phonebooth.    

[shaun.lawson]

 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

So today,    chief Brexit wallah David Davies has basically admitted that his government are still arguing amongst themselves over fundamental positions regarding Brexit to take forward into negotiations.     He's rumoured to be about to resign.

 

This is a criminally negligent and fraudulent government.      They couldn't exit a phonebooth.    

Also today Labour admitted that they can't agree on their position or how to hold the government's feet to the coals.

 

What a cluster**** 

[Space Mackerel]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Also today Labour admitted that they can't agree on their position or how to hold the government's feet to the coals.

 

What a cluster**** 

 

"Better Together"

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Also today Labour admitted that they can't agree on their position or how to hold the government's feet to the coals.

 

What a cluster**** 

 

Labour are being tactically ambiguous in order to clean up at the polls (try to) in the aftermath of the Tories' Brexit train wreck.      It's not ideal but their tactical stance is infinitely less damaging than those in charge.    Parliament as a whole can and will do all it can to hold the clown show to account.    No less so than an opposition party in isolation.

[The Mighty Thor]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Labour are being tactically ambiguous in order to clean up at the polls (try to) in the aftermath of the Tories' Brexit train wreck.      It's not ideal but their tactical stance is infinitely less damaging than those in charge.    Parliament as a whole can and will do all it can to hold the clown show to account.    No less so than an opposition party in isolation.

Sadly I don't have your faith in parliament holding the Tories to account on this shambles.

There's dissenting voices just now but you know that come the vote the slimy feckers will all fall into line and ram it through. 

I don't think anyone at Labour has the nous to be tactical. I think they're genuinely flapping in the wind with different factions trying to steer the party one way or t'other

[Montgomery Brewster]

11 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

"Better Together"

So true. And to think people vote for these cretins 

[Space Mackerel]

50 minutes ago, Montgomery Brewster said:

So true. And to think people vote for these cretins 

 

[jake]

On 02/06/2018 at 22:30, shaun.lawson said:

My goodness will somebody please think of the fattys

[Space Mackerel]

I think Nadine has fully chucked it now.  

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Another total shambles today. **** Brexit and have a General Election. This government is a joke.

[Montgomery Brewster]

Oh this sleigh ride has plenty to go yet.

 

will need a bigger tub of popcorn at this rate

[shaun.lawson]

Apparently, David Davis was going to resign until it was explained to him that this would involve him leaving the job he currently has.

 

He thought he'd be able to keep his ministerial car and salary under a bespoke deal which didn't actually exist.

 

He assumed it would be the easiest resignation ever.

[The White Cockade]

not convinced there is a soft Brexit

it's either Brexit or stay in

Can't understand how people think we can leave the EU but keep the good things we like

We should have stayed in but the Little Englanders wanted their FREEDOM

You reap what you sow

[shaun.lawson]

[Victorian]

Davis is obviously sick and tired of being accountable to a zombie PM with two opposing hands having a pagger up her farter.     

[shaun.lawson]

 

     

[Victorian]

Michelle O'Neill of Sinn Fein is a decent political performer and I'm finding it very difficult to disagree with her most of the time.    

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

     

 

Still can't see this, but FAO the techies it's a Firefox thing.

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

Michelle O'Neill of Sinn Fein is a decent political performer and I'm finding it very difficult to disagree with her most of the time.    

 

Yep.  Likewise, their party leader, Mary Lou McDonald, is wiping the floor with most of the political establishment in this neck of the woods.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

Apparently, David Davis was going to resign until it was explained to him that this would involve him leaving the job he currently has.

 

He thought he'd be able to keep his ministerial car and salary under a bespoke deal which didn't actually exist.

 

He assumed it would be the easiest resignation ever.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

Boris is now talking about a "meltdown".  His comments about the Irish border question are beyond belief , coming from our senior foreign diplomat.  Worth a read. 

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexspence/boris-johnson-trump-brexit-leaked-recording?utm_term=.km1zzG3o8d&bftwuk=&__twitter_impression=true

[jake]

6 hours ago, The White Cockade said:

not convinced there is a soft Brexit

it's either Brexit or stay in

Can't understand how people think we can leave the EU but keep the good things we like

We should have stayed in but the Little Englanders wanted their FREEDOM

You reap what you sow

Little Englanders?

 

Are those of us who want independence for Scotland to be labelled this way ?

 

Anyway it's a nice little echo chamber on this so I will leave you all to it .

 

 

[jake]

Even though I voted for brexit it would never be implemented.

Neither would independence for Scotland.

A separation of Spain.

A truly left wing government of the UK.

ETC ETC ETC 

There will never be redistribution of wealth to ease the suffering of the many .

 

Yet those who think they argue for left wing ideals still believe the EU is the answer.

 

 Same folk who despise racism use racist terms such as little Englanders

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

21 minutes ago, jake said:

There will never be redistribution of wealth to ease the suffering of the many .

 

Complains man who voted for the corporations to become even more powerful than they already are, for workers to lose all remaining rights, and the poor to become even poorer.

 

Way to go. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[jake]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

 

Complains man who voted for the corporations to become even more powerful than they already are, for workers to lose all remaining rights, and the poor to become even poorer.

 

Way to go. 

Yeah.

Corporations and multi national wealth is denied by the EU.

 

And Shaun.

 

Let's get one thing straight.

The only people who got rights for people were people .

 

You are living in a fairy world .

Where the powerful are benevolent and democracy actually means something.

 

You know democracy .

Once a right only given to the few.

Then only to men .

Then only to women.

 

ETC ETC ETC ETC.

 

But you would peddle the myth that European central government gave the UK working man those rights.

 

I quoted Tony Benn before and his eloquent argument.

 

Seriously are you paid to talk so much piffle.

?

Your like a EU version of those 14 Russian facebook trolls you said were taking over the USA.

 

That was a cracker .

The most sophisticated and financed intelligence agency the world has ever known and you think they got bushwhacked by facebook trolls.

 

 

Anyway why don't you call on uly he always is right behind you.

?

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Boris is now talking about a "meltdown".  His comments about the Irish border question are beyond belief , coming from our senior foreign diplomat.  Worth a read. 

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexspence/boris-johnson-trump-brexit-leaked-recording?utm_term=.km1zzG3o8d&bftwuk=&__twitter_impression=true

 

 

Scientists are still trying to find evidence of intelligent life on Boris Johnson.  I won't be holding my breath.

[Ulysses]

Here's a view in the Guardian by Larry Elliott that there is a close link between the unsuitability of the single currency for some countries, the insistence on "austerity" policies by governments, and the rise of populist movements.  Although his analysis isn't entirely accurate, and although his conclusion is too simplistic, it chimes with a view I expressed a few years ago that the solution to Europe's post-2008 economic problems - or part of the solution, at least - lay in the creation of a "split" single currency.  This would be something like a "euro II" which would be a multi-national currency but allowed to devalue against the euro, much as the Exchange Rate Mechanism allowed deviations of up to 15% back in the 1990s.  It would have been of huge benefit to Greece from 2010 to last year, and it would be of benefit to Italy now.  It would allow the lovers of the political project to keep believing they have a chance of success, and it would allow the strong economic and budgetary players to maintain their tight policies - but it would also allow the weaker economic performers who were hit hardest after the 2008 crash to devalue and give their economies a restart.

 

Larry Elliott, The Guardian: The best thing Germany could do for Europe is quit the single currency – but it won’t

[shaun.lawson]

38 minutes ago, jake said:

*the usual guff*

 

Two things Jake.

 

1. You need to stop obsessing. You really, really do.

 

2. You're so ill-informed or plain thick (delete as applicable), you obviously haven't even noticed that Special Counsel Mueller has so far instituted criminal proceedings against 19 individuals - with plenty more to come.

 

Is that a 'cracker' too? Or hard fact?

[shaun.lawson]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Here's a view in the Guardian by Larry Elliott that there is a close link between the unsuitability of the single currency for some countries, the insistence on "austerity" policies by governments, and the rise of populist movements.  Although his analysis isn't entirely accurate, and although his conclusion is too simplistic, it chimes with a view I expressed a few years ago that the solution to Europe's post-2008 economic problems - or part of the solution, at least - lay in the creation of a "split" single currency.  This would be something like a "euro II" which would be a multi-national currency but allowed to devalue against the euro, much as the Exchange Rate Mechanism allowed deviations of up to 15% back in the 1990s.  It would have been of huge benefit to Greece from 2010 to last year, and it would be of benefit to Italy now.  It would allow the lovers of the political project to keep believing they have a chance of success, and it would allow the strong economic and budgetary players to maintain their tight policies - but it would also allow the weaker economic performers who were hit hardest after the 2008 crash to devalue and give their economies a restart.

 

Larry Elliott, The Guardian: The best thing Germany could do for Europe is quit the single currency – but it won’t

 

I've argued for years and years (since at least 2011) that the only solution to Europe's problems is for Germany to leave the euro. So naturally, I agree with him.

 

What intrigues me is that despite the euro's inherent unsustainability, Ireland, Portugal and Spain have, by and large, all recovered. I guess this is because economies always ultimately recover, no matter how badly ravaged they've been.

 

It was horribly noticeable, however, that against a backdrop of an encouraging, diverse new government of very many talents unveiled by Pedro Sanchez in Madrid, still the emphasis remained on deficit reduction. Which, of course, will stop that government doing the many great things it otherwise could.

 

Austerity always results in electorates moving towards the extremes; towards populism. What else could it do? The UK has no excuse at all given we control our own money supply; but if the euro isn't comprehensively reformed, there's no telling how bleak things could get in many parts of Europe.

[The Mighty Thor]

6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Boris is now talking about a "meltdown".  His comments about the Irish border question are beyond belief , coming from our senior foreign diplomat.  Worth a read. 

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexspence/boris-johnson-trump-brexit-leaked-recording?utm_term=.km1zzG3o8d&bftwuk=&__twitter_impression=true

So the take out from Boris' ramblings is "don't panic, it'll be alright in the end

 

That's one hell of a strategy.

[John Findlay]

14 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Yep.  Likewise, their party leader, Mary Lou McDonald, is wiping the floor with most of the political establishment in this neck of the woods.

They've had good teachers.

[joondalupjambo]

I have most likely missed this and cannot trawl so much stuff to see it.  If there is no hard border in Ireland where does an EU resident from southern Ireland, or indeed any EU resident, travelling to the UK via a Scottish port from Northern Ireland show their EU passport?  

The DUP I thought wanted no hard border and no passport controls at Scottish or Irish ports for NI residents after Brexit because it is part of the UK but how will customs know who is who at the ports unless everyone shows a passport?  Will NI residents just use driving licences for example?  No idea what happens now but surely things will need to change ?

Point is how do we secure the borders  via southern Ireland post Brexit because freedom of movement for EU travel will cease.

Thing is I never hear any politician answer this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 2018 by joondalupjambo

[jake]

UK exports up 12 % in last year.

 

[jake]

16 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Two things Jake.

 

1. You need to stop obsessing. You really, really do.

 

2. You're so ill-informed or plain thick (delete as applicable), you obviously haven't even noticed that Special Counsel Mueller has so far instituted criminal proceedings against 19 individuals - with plenty more to come.

 

Is that a 'cracker' too? Or hard fact?

Whether Special counsel Mueller institutes criminal proceedings is neither here nor there to your assertion that Russia was or is close to taking over the USA .

That you made that ridiculous claim is either thick or I'll informed.

That you are obviously neither I can only conclude that you just type shite.

 

I obsess says the man who types a novel on every single subject on jambos kickback.

 

 

[Boris]

40 minutes ago, jake said:

UK exports up 12 % in last year.

 

To where? Eu or non EU? 

 

Also, if up and still in the EU, why put at risk the relationship with our biggest trading partner? 

[Space Mackerel]

Scotlands was 12%.

 

UK was only 6%, obviously would've been a lot lower if we hadn't bumped it up. I'll guess England was probably about 1.5%.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/971319/brexit-news-exports-uk-liam-fox-trade-deal-EU-news

[jake]

14 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Scotlands was 12%.

 

UK was only 6%, obviously would've been a lot lower if we hadn't bumped it up. I'll guess England was probably about 1.5%.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/971319/brexit-news-exports-uk-liam-fox-trade-deal-EU-news

 

14 hours ago, Boris said:

To where? Eu or non EU? 

 

Also, if up and still in the EU, why put at risk the relationship with our biggest trading partner? 

So all the talk of brexit leading to empty supermarkets is scaremongering .

We were told that this Would happen immediately after a vote for it.

Now it's when it's implemented.

 

Reading spaces article Boris it would seem that new trade deals are being struck globally.

 

There is a world outside of Europe and it's economy grows while Europe's stagnated .

Constricted by the farce of the euro.

 

Of course professor Lawson will no doubt be along to put this thick pleb in place.

He would abandon democracy altogether as certain demographs don't understand or see the world as he does.

 

[shaun.lawson]

22 minutes ago, jake said:

There is a world outside of Europe and it's economy grows while Europe's stagnated .

Constricted by the farce of the euro.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43055887

 

The EU is growing more quickly than at any point in 10 years. Though guess which EU member is doing the worst? That's right, us - even before Brexit is implemented. In terms of growth, we're even doing worse than Greece.

 

Quote

 

He would abandon democracy altogether as certain demographs don't understand or see the world as he does.

 

 

Nope. Guess again Jake. If I had the power, I'd certainly legislate for a second referendum. 

 

PS. And those "new global trade deals"? They'll take years and years to be agreed - and with larger nations, they'll all involve us giving plenty up. Looking forward to that chlorinated chicken, privatised NHS, impossible queues at Dover and visa fees for travel into Europe? I'm sure that's what the British public voted for, after all.  

Edited June 9, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Victorian]

That's the one (unintended) consequential positive to result from the utter shambles that masquerades as the Tory government administration of Brexit.     The increasingltly credible possibility of a second referendum.

 

Lots of people refer to certain aspects of the Brexit process and related consequences as things that were never voted on,  or for.     One thing we didn't vote for was for the process to be managed by Laurel & Hardy.    We didn't vote for the wider process to be dominated by and hamstrung by the narrow political and religious skullduggery in Ireland.     

 

The whole thing has been invalidated by the gross incompetence of a gang of very wealthy political idealists who hold no stake of risk in the outcomes.    Propped up by an increasingly assertive rabble of socially retarded religious zealots.      

 

This Brexit is a wrong 'un.     We should have the chance to restart the entire thing.

[jake]

35 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-43055887

 

The EU is growing more quickly than at any point in 10 years. Though guess which EU member is doing the worst? That's right, us - even before Brexit is implemented. In terms of growth, we're even doing worse than Greece.

 

 

Nope. Guess again Jake. If I had the power, I'd certainly legislate for a second referendum. 

 

PS. And those "new global trade deals"? They'll take years and years to be agreed - and with larger nations, they'll all involve us giving plenty up. Looking forward to that chlorinated chicken, privatised NHS, impossible queues at Dover and visa fees for travel into Europe? I'm sure that's what the British public voted for, after all.  

The EU economy grew more than the UK this year for the first time in ten years.

By a whopping   .2%.

 

 

As for trade deals.

 

Please don't use that as an argument for your case.

Consider the length of time it's taken with Canada and the TTIP implications for private companies regarding the NHS .

Your constant scaremongering is like a sun editorial.

The UK already according to Spaces article set up deals in South America and the middle East.

Modest ones admittedly. 

 

 

Edit 

 

By the way comparing Greece and the UK on growth when the our economy is almost 20 times it's size is straw clutching at it's finest.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by jake

[Boris]

6 minutes ago, jake said:

The EU economy grew more than the UK this year for the first time in ten years.

By a whopping   .2%.

 

 

As for trade deals.

 

Please don't use that as an argument for your case.

Consider the length of time it's taken with Canada and the TTIP implications for private companies regarding the NHS .

Your constant scaremongering is like a sun editorial.

The UK already according to Spaces article set up deals in South America and the middle East.

Modest ones admittedly.

 

 

So those deals were set up by us whilst still a member of the eu.