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Bridge of Djoum

Politics not being my strong point, but costings of 12b for something you voted against seems ludicrous.

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The costing is based on a very subjective model, which will of course support their view as it would do in the case of any 

Political party. Who knows what will happen. Meantime, Boris is saying that his £350m a week was an underestimation. What an ill informed clown. The whole thing is a mess.

Edited by SwindonJambo
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10 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

The costing is based on a very subjective model, which will of course support their view as it would do in the case of any 

Political party. Who knows what will happen. Meantime, Boris is saying that his £350m a week was an underestimation. What an ill informed clown. The whole thing is a mess.

 

I agree that at this point in time we don't know how leaving the EU will affect the country, short term pain, long term gain pperhaps?  I don't know.  I suspect that's the brexiteer rationale.

 

That said, I'd feel a wee bit more comfortable with this if the likes of Davis, Johnson, Gove and Fox weren't the ones dealing with it!

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27 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I agree that at this point in time we don't know how leaving the EU will affect the country, short term pain, long term gain pperhaps?  I don't know.  I suspect that's the brexiteer rationale.

 

That said, I'd feel a wee bit more comfortable with this if the likes of Davis, Johnson, Gove and Fox weren't the ones dealing with it!

Who would you choose?  Genuinely interested in your selection.

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14 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Who would you choose?  Genuinely interested in your selection.

 

I think Jambo X2 made comment on something like this previously, but as it is in the best interests of the country, a coalition of representatives from each party in the house of commons, representation from the devolved governments and perhaps also from the Mayoral cities in England.  This should be above party politics.

 

Can't help but feel "our" side in the negotiations are ideologically driven by their free market dogma, rather than actually seeing what's in the best interests of the country as a whole.

 

 

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As others have said above, the SNP commission a report with the premise that everything to do with Brexit is going to be shite, and lo and behold the report says exactly what they wanted.  Big surprise!

 

The last time I checked the SNP had more than three times the deficit of the rest of the UK, so I would dismiss this type of political posturing out of hand.

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3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

As others have said above, the SNP commission a report with the premise that everything to do with Brexit is going to be shite, and lo and behold the report says exactly what they wanted.  Big surprise!

 

The last time I checked the SNP had more than three times the deficit of the rest of the UK, so I would dismiss this type of political posturing out of hand.

It has little or no relevance.  The problem the SNP have is 59% of Scottish public are against free movement of people and that is the key issue driving voter intent.  As this is viewed as racist they of course keep quiet about their views.

 

but they do vote.

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22 minutes ago, frankblack said:

As others have said above, the SNP commission a report with the premise that everything to do with Brexit is going to be shite, and lo and behold the report says exactly what they wanted.  Big surprise!

 

The last time I checked the SNP had more than three times the deficit of the rest of the UK, so I would dismiss this type of political posturing out of hand.

 

Interesting there haven't been any reports telling us how good Brexit is going to be.  You would have thought there would...

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Oh well, the SNP should now be able to exploit the markets for whisky etc. in the US, India and China that would have provided a huge Economic surplus in an independent Scotland. 

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33 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

It has little or no relevance.  The problem the SNP have is 59% of Scottish public are against free movement of people and that is the key issue driving voter intent.  As this is viewed as racist they of course keep quiet about their views.

 

but they do vote.

65% voted to stay in the EU and have free movement

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The hard irony is that its in the SNPs interests for Scotland to get the worst possible Brexit deal, as this enhances the prospects of 

Independence.    

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AlphonseCapone
12 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

The costing is based on a very subjective model, which will of course support their view as it would do in the case of any 

Political party. Who knows what will happen. Meantime, Boris is saying that his £350m a week was an underestimation. What an ill informed clown. The whole thing is a mess.

 

Was it an SNP commissioned paper or a Scottish Government paper? There are big differences in regards to impartiality.

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5 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

The hard irony is that its in the SNPs interests for Scotland to get the worst possible Brexit deal, as this enhances the prospects of 

Independence.    

 

That is their plan, and to be fair they have been doing a consistent job of trying to wreck the process since the day after the Brexit vote.  It could backfire if we end up out of Europe on WTO terms.

 

I think the SNP know they have zero chance of getting an Indy 2 referendum win if we leave the EU first.  They have backed themselves into a corner over Brexit to the point that they would never convince the public that voting for Independence would be economically viable.

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48 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Interesting there haven't been any reports telling us how good Brexit is going to be.  You would have thought there would...

 

To be fair, the media is always negative and predicting doom and gloom - George Osbourne predicted a recession immediately after a Brexit vote win also.

 

Until we see the deal, we don't really know.

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1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

It was a UK referendum so that is utterly irrelevant.

if you seen the post I quoted it is 100% relevant. 

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3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

To be fair, the media is always negative and predicting doom and gloom - George Osbourne predicted a recession immediately after a Brexit vote win also.

 

Until we see the deal, we don't really know.

 

You would hope though that the Govt were doing scenarios based on possible outcomes i.e. deal, no deal etc and how  this would affect the economy in the short, medium and long term.

 

But my original question remains, if these studies are deliberately negative, why hasn't there been any optimistic ones commissioned/published?  The media is generally behind Brexit (well, the press at least), the BBC is neutral (stop laughing at the back there!) so again, where is the good economic news?

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5 minutes ago, XB52 said:

if you seen the post I quoted it is 100% relevant. 

 

No - it is a UK issue and a UK Parliament decision so a Scotland poll is irrelevant.

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Just now, Boris said:

 

You would hope though that the Govt were doing scenarios based on possible outcomes i.e. deal, no deal etc and how  this would affect the economy in the short, medium and long term.

 

But my original question remains, if these studies are deliberately negative, why hasn't there been any optimistic ones commissioned/published?  The media is generally behind Brexit (well, the press at least), the BBC is neutral (stop laughing at the back there!) so again, where is the good economic news?

 

You will probably find some in the Daily Mail or Express, but I don't read those papers!

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6 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

According to that isn't the majority (58%) will to accept freedom of movement for trade?

 

Yes you are right - I should have qualified - the majority (63%) of Scots want the same immigration rules as rUK post Brexit - which we know will be no freedom of movement..    But Scots are more likely than rUK to forego this if UK can get a free trade agreement.

 

Also of interest is the views of the farming and fishing lobbies, which see Brexit as a means to devolve control over these back to Scotland.    This is also tricky as the SNP should jump on this as a big chance to get more control in Holyrood, but again that dilutes the need for full Indy so imo the SNP are in a tricky situation of getting a great deal for Scotland, but knowing that this may not align to their ultimate objective.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Tories or Labour jumped in on the fishing/farming devolutuion opportunity.

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2 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

You would hope though that the Govt were doing scenarios based on possible outcomes i.e. deal, no deal etc and how  this would affect the economy in the short, medium and long term.

 

But my original question remains, if these studies are deliberately negative, why hasn't there been any optimistic ones commissioned/published?  The media is generally behind Brexit (well, the press at least), the BBC is neutral (stop laughing at the back there!) so again, where is the good economic news?

 

Does it matter?

 

imo Brexit was more driven by Little Britain who want border control back and that is the real reason they vote leave.   

 

I already posted I was in Bakewell in Derbyshire the morning after the vote and I was stunned by the xenophobia down there - I put Leave at 100% there - they simple don't want immigration, and given most of them are dosset old pensioners the economic argument means nothing to them.

 

So it doesn't matter if the SNPs paper said the cost was double the 12 billion - that will not change anyones mind.

 

imo

 

 

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In very basoc terms can someone tell me:

 

Why do the SNP believe that Scotland will proper as an individual nation (as opposed to part of the UK) but wants to remain part of an even bigger collective of countries in Europe

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2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Is paying extra tariffs on importing and exporting things

A] good for business

B] bad for business

 

 

 

Depends,

 

It is bad for trade, but not necessarily bad for Business.     for example if we tariff the hell out of German cars, the sales of German cars will go down, but the sales of other countries or UK-built cars increases to compensate.  the same amount of cars will be sold.

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13 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Tories or Labour jumped in on the fishing/farming devolutuion opportunity.

 

Given this governments reluctance to hand over devolved matters post Brexit, I don't see how the Tories can argue for it!

 

9 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

 

So it doesn't matter if the SNPs paper said the cost was double the 12 billion - that will not change anyones mind.

 

imo

 

 

 

Not on Brexit, but it may change some others minds on another question...

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17 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Given this governments reluctance to hand over devolved matters post Brexit, I don't see how the Tories can argue for it!

 

 

Not on Brexit, but it may change some others minds on another question...

Don’t underestimate Davidson.    She may be the one to go for it.  It could be a potential vote-winner and she has previous in tapping into that.

 

but in reality it’s Labour who should go after is

Edited by deesidejambo
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Where was the SNP paper on possible downsides of Scottish independence? A FOI request has shown they didn't create an impact assessment for leaving the UK back in 2014. Bit rich of them to then say the UK government are a shambles for not having one for leaving the EU. 

 

Hard to take them seriously when the answer is ALWAYS going to be independence. 

 

Look forward to them casting the same pessimistic eye over the economic effects of Indy if IndyRef2 ever comes about.

 

Sturgeon is already contradicting herself 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/23/nicola-sturgeon-fear-based-remain-campaign-insults-voters

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

Don’t underestimate Davidson.    She may be the one to go for it.  It could be a potential vote-winner and she has previous in tapping into that.

 

but in reality it’s Labour who should go after is

 

I think Labour as well as the SNP have called for fishing to be devolved on its return from the EU.

 

Davidson uncharacteristcally quiet!

 

14 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

Where was the SNP paper on possible downsides of Scottish independence? A FOI request has shown they didn't create an impact assessment for leaving the UK back in 2014. Bit rich of them to then say the UK government are a shambles for not having one for leaving the EU. 

 

Hard to take them seriously when the answer is ALWAYS going to be independence. 

 

Look forward to them casting the same pessimistic eye over the economic effects of Indy if IndyRef2 ever comes about.

 

Sturgeon is already contradicting herself 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/23/nicola-sturgeon-fear-based-remain-campaign-insults-voters

 

 

 

 

 

Not sure why it is a bit rich, given that the SNP never had to see through independence.  You are not treating like with like.

 

I'm sure what the YES and BT campaigns did was make their respective economic claims for indy/remaining in the uk.

 

Similalry, Remain and Leave made their claims regards the EU.

 

But now it is up to Government to deliver and their policy seems to be "it'll be alright on then night".  

 

Where;s Denis Norden when you need him?

 

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6 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

What is?  Brexit?

Brexit certainly is - it didn't take Nicola long to go "game on" on the morning of the Brexit vote.

 

But silly girl - she should have consulted first cos now she is getting backed into a corner - the public majority are simply anti-

indy and polls show will stay that way, with 40% of polled voters saying they will vote for the Union no matter what with 30% saying the same for Indy.      The remaining 30% are undecided so it will take a massive swing in them for Nicola to get to the magic 50%.  That swing is simply not happening, even with all the Brexit palaver and the Tories election shambles.

 

But it remains the case that a good deal for Scotland come Brexit results in diluted need for full Indy, hence the SNP will secretly want it to fail.  just as they hope for a Troy Govt in UK as this gives them the "we hate Tories" voter share which will disappear once Labour get back in.

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4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

No - it is a UK issue and a UK Parliament decision so a Scotland poll is irrelevant.

God this is hard work. The post I quoted talked about a Scottish poll so I replied with a Scottish result, quite simple really. 

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1 hour ago, XB52 said:

God this is hard work. The post I quoted talked about a Scottish poll so I replied with a Scottish result, quite simple really. 

And my point stands - it is irrelevant to consider Scotland polls on this topic as its not a matter the Scottish government has powers to influence.  I realise Sturgeon thinks otherwise but she has been put in her place.

 

Maybe I could start my own poll in our office as that would be equally pointless.

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7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

And my point stands - it is irrelevant to consider Scotland polls on this topic as its not a matter the Scottish government has powers to influence.  I realise Sturgeon thinks otherwise but she has been put in her place.

 

Maybe I could start my own poll in our office as that would be equally pointless.

Your point is pointless. If you want to argue, argue with the poster who brought up a Scottish poll. 

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Space Mackerel
5 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Brexit certainly is - it didn't take Nicola long to go "game on" on the morning of the Brexit vote.

 

But silly girl - she should have consulted first cos now she is getting backed into a corner - the public majority are simply anti-

indy and polls show will stay that way, with 40% of polled voters saying they will vote for the Union no matter what with 30% saying the same for Indy.      The remaining 30% are undecided so it will take a massive swing in them for Nicola to get to the magic 50%.  That swing is simply not happening, even with all the Brexit palaver and the Tories election shambles.

 

But it remains the case that a good deal for Scotland come Brexit results in diluted need for full Indy, hence the SNP will secretly want it to fail.  just as they hope for a Troy Govt in UK as this gives them the "we hate Tories" voter share which will disappear once Labour get back in.

 

All your posts are entirely wishful thinking. :lol: None of them fit in the real world, absolutely zero. 

 

Meanwhile, Ireland getting on with it and Scotland possible ferry  route to Scandinavia in future. 

 

http://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/holidays/2018/01/16/news/ferry-link-between-ireland-and-spain-starts-at-end-of-april-1233662/?param=ds12rif76F

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22 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

All your posts are entirely wishful thinking. :lol: None of them fit in the real world, absolutely zero. 

 

Meanwhile, Ireland getting on with it and Scotland possible ferry  route to Scandinavia in future. 

 

http://www.irishnews.com/lifestyle/holidays/2018/01/16/news/ferry-link-between-ireland-and-spain-starts-at-end-of-april-1233662/?param=ds12rif76F

 

Sadly for you the poll data is real.   Nicola will have no choice but to can IndyRef2 or get punted. Again.

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Space Mackerel
11 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

Sadly for you the poll data is real.   Nicola will have no choice but to can IndyRef2 or get punted. Again.

 

 

The only thing I can see canning Indy 2 is a Corbyn government. And even then it's a long shot.

 

Anyway, back to Brexit and the UK. 18 months now and they've still no idea what's going on. SURE and stable, aye? :lol: You voted for them. Give us your insightful anyalsis why they are still dithering please. 

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40 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

 

The only thing I can see canning Indy 2 is a Corbyn government. And even then it's a long shot.

 

Anyway, back to Brexit and the UK. 18 months now and they've still no idea what's going on. SURE and stable, aye? :lol: You voted for them. Give us your insightful anyalsis why they are still dithering please. 

 

I couldn’t care less about progress on Brexit.   

 

and I voted for them to give Nicola a burst lip.  It worked.

 

and a Labour Govt is on the way.  Farewell Indy.

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Space Mackerel
13 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

 

I couldn’t care less about progress on Brexit.   

 

and I voted for them to give Nicola a burst lip.  It worked.

 

and a Labour Govt is on the way.  Farewell Indy.

 

You really do not do political joined up thinking deeside. 

 

So, so far you've failed to halt Brexit and failed to put a dampener on Indy 2, all because Ruth filled your head with SAY NO nonsense. Treated you and the likes like utter mugs given her recent "let's get on with it comments" 

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Space Mackerel
5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Does the SNP favour hard or soft independence from the UK?

 

Whats this to do with hard Brexit. All the SG can do it's put pressure on the UK gov. 

 

And youll argue with your own shadow for something to talk about. 

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Francis Albert
18 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Whats this to do with hard Brexit. All the SG can do it's put pressure on the UK gov. 

 

And youll argue with your own shadow for something to talk about. 

Sorry just looking for evidence of SNP consistency. Agreed irrelevant or at least doomed to be fruitless.

Edited by Francis Albert
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Space Mackerel
4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Sorry just looking for evidence of SNP consistency. Agreed irrelevant or at lesdt doomed to be fruitless.

 

I think you'll find if you're wanting consistency, then the SNP and the Lib Dems are the ones you would look to.

 

The Tories are still beset with infighting and Corbyn, with no help from Momentum or the Blairites, flip flops depending on the weather (or lack of it) 

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42 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

You really do not do political joined up thinking deeside. 

 

So, so far you've failed to halt Brexit and failed to put a dampener on Indy 2, all because Ruth filled your head with SAY NO nonsense. Treated you and the likes like utter mugs given her recent "let's get on with it comments" 

 

Your desperation increases.     Nicola got a burst bubble at the last election.

 

lost majority and only 37% of the vote.

 

with Labours return to prominence that will just make things worse as voters return to them.   

 

as will the opportunity to devolve more powers to Holyrood post Brexit.  That also works against Indy.

 

you are sunk.   

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