Levein is not the answer ( merged )

[merseyjambo]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Didn’t really notice either at Tynie recently. I’m sure they are decent but I’d argue we brought in Mitchell who had a big impact on our performances. Similarly with Naismith. 

 

Yeah they must be poor. Killie have taken 17 points since the transfer window, we’ve taken 5

[HMFC THE TEAM FOR ME]

Just now, Lucille's Thirsty said:

 

It’s all redundant tbh. Just need to hope CL can improve us.

 

That’s true fingers crossed never know. Whilst I believe we could do better I don’t think CL is a bad manager just that the game seems to have bypassed him a bit always likely to happen with the long absence from management.

[Hendricks]

11 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Add Wenger to the list. 

 

Aye. Let’s compare Craig Levein to Ferguson, Mourinho and Wenger in any footballing capacity   

 

****ing bewildering some of the stuff on here. 

 

Edit. Throw Klopp in the mix too apparently. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Hendricks

[davemclaren]

16 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

What?!! I’m not even talking about his career as a player!!! His managerial career is all that’s important to me. You might ask yourself the question why if he’s such a great manager nobody who could in your view win a trophy hasn’t appointed him!!! I’d hazard a guess it’s bevause he is widely disliked in footballing circles, killed his reputation at Leicester and subsequently Scotland and has very little of note on his CV to attract a club of any significant standing. He’s at Hearts due to his long standing relationship and because of Ann Budge’s infatuation with him. Nothing more nothing less, let’s not pretend otherwise. He won’t bring success as he never does. 

 

Lots of much smaller teams than Hearts have won trophies during Levein’s football career so are you just telling me he’s unlucky  rather than it having anything to do with is awful approach and largely negative mindset? Aye, that must be it, Levein’s just unlucky. Cup defeats to Ross County, ICT, Falkirk, Kilmarnock, Dundee and last week Motherwell, just unlucky as ****! Deary me. 

To be fair, I would argue that ‘lots’ of those smaller teams were lucky to win trophies, that’s how cup competitions works. How many managers of those cup winning smaller teams went on to be successful elsewhere? i’m asking as I have forgotten who most of them were so don't have the answers. 

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Yeah they must be poor. Killie have taken 17 points since the transfer window, we’ve taken 5

I didn’t say they were poor just that I didnt notice them in a game we should have won fairly comfortably but for poor finishing. 

Killie have done well under Clarke, no disputing that. However if you had been Budge in August and took a look at Clarke’s record as a No.1 rather than assistant or coach I don’t believe you would have considered him for the Hearts job, even if he applied for it. 

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

To be fair, I would argue that ‘lots’ of those smaller teams were lucky to win trophies, that’s how cup competitions works. How many managers of those cup winning smaller teams went on to be successful elsewhere? i’m asking as I have forgotten who most of them were so don't have the answers. 

Big Cup - Hughes, Stubbs, Wright, Sergio

Diddy Cup - Shiels,Lennon, McIntyre

 

successful since = zero

[merseyjambo]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I didn’t say they were poor just that I didnt notice them in a game we should have won fairly comfortably but for poor finishing. 

Killie have done well under Clarke, no disputing that. However if you had been Budge in August and took a look at Clarke’s record as a No.1 rather than assistant or coach I don’t believe you would have considered him for the Hearts job, even if he applied for it. 

 

No you reckoned our signings in Mitchell and Naismith had been better yet they have amassed 3 times the points we have in that period of time despite our superior signings. 

 

Did he apply. We’ll never know but considering that Not many fans would have wanted any of the 4 candidates interviewed tells me that I’m not sure how good our recruitment process was

[Lucille's Thirsty]

18 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

Aye. Let’s compare Craig Levein to Ferguson, Mourinho and Wenger in any footballing capacity   

 

****ing bewildering some of the stuff on here. 

 

Edit. Throw Klopp in the mix too apparently. 

 

Nothing wrong with Kloppo.

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, merseyjambo said:

 

No you reckoned our signings in Mitchell and Naismith had been better yet they have amassed 3 times the points we have in that period of time despite our superior signings. 

 

Did he apply. We’ll never know but considering that Not many fans would have wanted any of the 4 candidates interviewed tells me that I’m not sure how good our recruitment process was

No, I was responding to a post that asked how could Killie, and others, recruit good players in January yet we couldn’t. Just pointing out that we did and they have both been positives. 

Agree re recruitment process but answer was staring us in the face  if CL was to remain in charge of footballing matters. I still think he will turn it around but who knows. I also don’t believe Clarke will be in Scotland come August, and doesnt want to be in Scotland come August. 

[Hendricks]

11 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

To be fair, I would argue that ‘lots’ of those smaller teams were lucky to win trophies, that’s how cup competitions works. How many managers of those cup winning smaller teams went on to be successful elsewhere? i’m asking as I have forgotten who most of them were so don't have the answers. 

 

Ok so let’s for a second accept it’s just ‘luck’. Levein has simply been unlucky from his horrendous injuries as a player and then throughout his entire managerial career. He’s jinxed and never gets the rub of the green (probably get called a Hibee for using that phraseology!) and it’s got nothing to do with his philosophies, the way he approaches knock out games and the importance he places on them. Do we want such a Jonah leading us? Someone so unlucky and cursed that he’s lost cup games 4-0 at the mighty Falkirk! This is what I’m being asked to accept. That it is bad luck. Aye ok. 

[MrB1to4]

1 hour ago, Hendricks said:

 

Lol. How does it mean zero that he’s won nothing?!! What a complete nonsense. The fact he once again approached a massive cup game like a complete pussy last Sunday says everything about his mentality and character. He will never bring success to Tynecastle. Lennon, arsehole or otherwise has been around winning setups, knows what it is to win and knows how to approach big matches and it’s blatantly obvious that rubs off on his players. Levein has seen his Hearts teams routinely knocked out by small clubs like Ross County, ICT, Falkirk, Dundee, Kilmarnock and Motherwell. He’s not even been unlucky with draws and has only lost to Celtic and Rangers once a piece. The guy’s career is littered with letdown, disappointment and failure and that will certainly not change now given his age and how set in his ways he is. Hearts will continue to be also rans with him in the hot seat! 

Cool, so now you're opinion of Levein is out there. You planning of doing anything 'productive' with it? Or just carry on repeating yourself?

[Hendricks]

22 minutes ago, MrB1to4 said:

Cool, so now you're opinion of Levein is out there. You planning of doing anything 'productive' with it? Or just carry on repeating yourself?

 

I’ll carry on repeating the facts whilst people continue to defend the indefensible. If that’s cool with you 

[MrB1to4]

15 minutes ago, Hendricks said:

 

I’ll carry on repeating the facts whilst people continue to defend the indefensible. If that’s cool with you 

I said "productive". How does repeating 'facts' to the 'indefensible' help change the course of the team? Are you one of those people in life who perhaps just moan at things in life rather than do something about it? Your opinions seem deep rooted, perhaps time to act?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Hendricks said:

 

What?!! I’m not even talking about his career as a player!!! His managerial career is all that’s important to me. You might ask yourself the question why if he’s such a great manager nobody who could in your view win a trophy hasn’t appointed him!!! I’d hazard a guess it’s bevause he is widely disliked in footballing circles, killed his reputation at Leicester and subsequently Scotland and has very little of note on his CV to attract a club of any significant standing. He’s at Hearts due to his long standing relationship and because of Ann Budge’s infatuation with him. Nothing more nothing less, let’s not pretend otherwise. He won’t bring success as he never does. 

 

Lots of much smaller teams than Hearts have won trophies during Levein’s football career so are you just telling me he’s unlucky  rather than it having anything to do with is awful approach and largely negative mindset? Aye, that must be it, Levein’s just unlucky. Cup defeats to Ross County, ICT, Falkirk, Kilmarnock, Dundee and last week Motherwell, just unlucky as ****! Deary me. 

I never said he was "unlucky", I was pointing out his career path. I'm glad you have your path of attack painted out though as you will not be diverted off it.

 

In the meantime, what epithet would you lay on Tommy McLean? By your logic, Podgy Hands is a winner.

[Hendricks]

10 minutes ago, MrB1to4 said:

I said "productive". How does repeating 'facts' to the 'indefensible' help change the course of the team? Are you one of those people in life who perhaps just moan at things in life rather than do something about it? Your opinions seem deep rooted, perhaps time to act?

 

 

Its not my job to do anything about the team. And whilst you think I’m “moaning” I believe the points I’m making (backed up by many in agreement) are entirely valid and often proven completely correct. They are not deep rooted whatsoever and my opinions could be changed by significant action but I have absolutely no faith in this regimes ability to make the necessary hard decisions. They will happily continue the current cluster**** in support of a man who is so arrogant and set in his way that it’s way more important to do it his way than do what’s best for Hearts and our hugely loyal fan base. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Hendricks said:

 

 

Its not my job to do anything about the team. And whilst you think I’m “moaning” I believe the points I’m making (backed up by many in agreement) are entirely valid and often proven completely correct. They are not deep rooted whatsoever and my opinions could be changed by significant action but I have absolutely no faith in this regimes ability to make the necessary hard decisions. They will happily continue the current cluster**** in support of a man who is so arrogant and set in his way that it’s way more important to do it his way than do what’s best for Hearts and our hugely loyal fan base. 

So what would it take to change your opinions precisely?

[Hendricks]

9 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

I never said he was "unlucky", I was pointing out his career path. I'm glad you have your path of attack painted out though as you will not be diverted off it.

 

In the meantime, what epithet would you lay on Tommy McLean? By your logic, Podgy Hands is a winner.

 

His career path has led to managerial failure. That will continue at Hearts. 

 

God knows what Tommy McLran has to do with anything but as you may have forgotten he did win the Scottish Cup with Motherwell so yet another manager who has won something with a smaller club than Hearts!! Levein’s record 

[Gnjambo16]

On 10/03/2018 at 10:20, Pennywise said:

I'm not a fan of having a revolving door for managers & think Levein should stay, although changes are obviously needed. 

 

But, who replaces him? What manager would come in & improve our squad better than Levein can?

 

Which manager would come in and get the fans back together and get us renewing our ST's?

 

FWIW, I think Craig has the safest job in football, but then I said that about Robbie! 

Well Steve Clarke with the same squad turned his team into a very improved and winning Killie . Where Lee Mculloch couldn’t by a win . So if you have a particularly good manager with a fan base of 4000 and little budget see what can be done. What could he do with the  huge potential Hearts support and a reasonable budget Spl wise ..... hmm 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Hendricks said:

 

His career path has led to managerial failure. That will continue at Hearts. 

 

God knows what Tommy McLran has to do with anything but as you may have forgotten he did win the Scottish Cup with Motherwell so yet another manager who has won something with a smaller club than Hearts!! Levein’s record 

Thanks for making my point. You decry Levein yet when you stack up a "serial loser" against some "winners", who would you want in charge?

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Hendricks said:

 

Ok so let’s for a second accept it’s just ‘luck’. Levein has simply been unlucky from his horrendous injuries as a player and then throughout his entire managerial career. He’s jinxed and never gets the rub of the green (probably get called a Hibee for using that phraseology!) and it’s got nothing to do with his philosophies, the way he approaches knock out games and the importance he places on them. Do we want such a Jonah leading us? Someone so unlucky and cursed that he’s lost cup games 4-0 at the mighty Falkirk! This is what I’m being asked to accept. That it is bad luck. Aye ok. 

?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

Can’t wait for summer. This place is going to be famous.

 

 

Maybe this place would be better without loaded phrases like "serial loser". Craig Levein is deserving of criticism without the unnecessary barbs.

[cuddledoon]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Didn’t really notice either at Tynie recently. I’m sure they are decent but I’d argue we brought in Mitchell who had a big impact on our performances. Similarly with Naismith. 

 

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Didn’t really notice either at Tynie recently. I’m sure they are decent but I’d argue we brought in Mitchell who had a big impact on our performances. Similarly with Naismith. 

 

Killie fans will tell you that Mulumbu has been a first class signing and has improved their side considerably, and has stood out in several games.

 

He demonstrated to me in our recent game at Tynie exactly how they had formed such an opinion.

 

The fact that you didn’t notice him tells me all I need to know about your football knowledge, or indeed lack of it!

[JohnB]

1 hour ago, Hendricks said:

 

 

Its not my job to do anything about the team. And whilst you think I’m “moaning” I believe the points I’m making (backed up by many in agreement) are entirely valid and often proven completely correct. They are not deep rooted whatsoever and my opinions could be changed by significant action but I have absolutely no faith in this regimes ability to make the necessary hard decisions. They will happily continue the current cluster**** in support of a man who is so arrogant and set in his way that it’s way more important to do it his way than do what’s best for Hearts and our hugely loyal fan base. 

 

FWIW I agree with every word you're saying. 

[It should have been ten]

4 hours ago, john5698 said:

if you if had read my correction to my post,  I was talking about careers as managers, pretty sad that you had to go and check these facts out, whilst I am not happy with the way things are going levein has always worked under financial constraints as a manager, Lennon never did that at Celtic and the one club he had to, Bolton, he was emptied.

 

Exactly mate but that won’t make any difference to the haters. 

[It should have been ten]

3 hours ago, Lucille's Thirsty said:

 

Once again Levein has made some major mistakes when in DOF role. But we are on about the managerial side to it now. He has to be given a full pre season to build a team and if results are the same next year then I will be calling for his head. I’m not pro Levein but when Hibs, Rangers and Kilmarnock are buying players they’ve not got a new main stand that’s just been built. That for me is affecting the player budget. For every Lafferty and Naismith there’s a Randall or Michael Smith a total gulf in quality there. 

 

Good post, well put 

[JohnB]

4 hours ago, Lucille's Thirsty said:

 

Once again Levein has made some major mistakes when in DOF role. But we are on about the managerial side to it now. He has to be given a full pre season to build a team and if results are the same next year then I will be calling for his head. I’m not pro Levein but when Hibs, Rangers and Kilmarnock are buying players they’ve not got a new main stand that’s just been built. That for me is affecting the player budget. For every Lafferty and Naismith there’s a Randall or Michael Smith a total gulf in quality there. 

 

IMO we cannot view either the DOF or the Manager role in isolation especially when CL has such a big say in who comes and goes.

[Sandy Clark]

2 hours ago, Hendricks said:

 

His career path has led to managerial failure. That will continue at Hearts. 

 

God knows what Tommy McLran has to do with anything but as you may have forgotten he did win the Scottish Cup with Motherwell so yet another manager who has won something with a smaller club than Hearts!! Levein’s record 

I dont always agree with your posts but you have to remember that certain members of JKB are very much in bed with the current regime and are reluctant to criticise regardless how desperate things it may appear.

 

The same thing has happened throughout the years when the shareholders association rep spoke to the evening news at every opportunity. In no way did this represent the actual fan base but the table was set. 

 

By the same token you can see it here quite clearly. I am not saying dont post or voice your opinions, but there is an affiliation here and you may not meet the requirements.

[Kiwidoug]

Maybe Gary Locke is the answer and always was.  To use that hideous phrase he ticks all the boxes.  Worked hard for no wages.  Bleeds maroon.  Hates Hibs.

 

I would welcome him back with great enthusiasm.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 hour ago, Kiwidoug said:

Maybe Gary Locke is the answer and always was.  To use that hideous phrase he ticks all the boxes.  Worked hard for no wages.  Bleeds maroon.  Hates Hibs.

 

I would welcome him back with great enthusiasm.

[Kiwidoug]

22 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Glad I've cheered you up Geoff.  In the extraordinary event you think our last 3 managers have done well please enlighten us.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

30 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

Glad I've cheered you up Geoff.  In the extraordinary event you think our last 3 managers have done well please enlighten us.

 

Locke was hopeless Doug. If you want a version of Cathro with a Bonnyrigg accent, you bash on.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

Maybe Gary Locke is the answer and always was.  To use that hideous phrase he ticks all the boxes.  Worked hard for no wages.  Bleeds maroon.  Hates Hibs.

 

I would welcome him back with great enthusiasm.

 

You're beyond parody at times! 

[Kiwidoug]

10 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

You're beyond parody at times! 

Yes, but at other times like this, I'm bang on the money and good people like you are privileged to have the benefit of my superior insight which I am always happy to share with fellow Jambos.

 

As I'm sure you will agree, every spl manager we've had has been an abject failure.

 

Don't bother to thank me.  I am generosity unconfined.

[Kiwidoug]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

 

Locke was hopeless Doug. If you want a version of Cathro with a Bonnyrigg accent, you bash on.

Bash

[jr ewing]

Mark Hughes anyone?

[bobskeldon]

7 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So what would it take to change your opinions precisely?

I don't want to speak for Hendricks but I would feel a whole lot better if AB recognised and acknowledged

that the CL model is broken, that her 5 year plan is in tatters, that she has been hoodwinked using smoke,

mirrors and 'boxes'  and that she needs to sort it! 

[merseyjambo]

7 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

I don't want to speak for Hendricks but I would feel a whole lot better if AB recognised and acknowledged

that the CL model is broken, that her 5 year plan is in tatters, that she has been hoodwinked using smoke,

mirrors and 'boxes'  and that she needs to sort it! 

 

The only way she does that is to get rid of CL completely or to give him the title Director of Academy Football and ensure that the ‘bootroom’ Culture that CL has tried to install is shattered

[dougal]

On 09/03/2018 at 23:56, stevie1874 said:

Loads of people shouting to Sack Levein but no one coming up with realistic options, given the money it would cost us to pay him and the other coaches off. 

You can't honestly think we should keep the manager just because you can't think of anyone to replace him?? 

 

Steve Clarke has turned Kilmarnock round in a few months and he's done it with the majority of the squad who were previously struggling at the foot of the table. 

 

Changing manager can sometimes be enough to improve a club's fortunes. A different manager with a different footballing philosophy may mean that we actually don't need to get rid of or bring in that many new players during the summer.  

 

While top six isn't guaranteed it is also highly unlikely that we will be dragged into a relegation fight. So it would make sense to try and get a new manager in so he can assess the squad and see who he wants to keep and who will be getting shipped out so we can start next season with the squad that the new manager wants.

[soonbe110]

7 hours ago, cuddledoon said:

 

 

Killie fans will tell you that Mulumbu has been a first class signing and has improved their side considerably, and has stood out in several games.

 

He demonstrated to me in our recent game at Tynie exactly how they had formed such an opinion.

 

The fact that you didn’t notice him tells me all I need to know about your football knowledge, or indeed lack of it!

Interesting in that after match comments even Clarke said he was happy with a draw because his midfield had been below par on the night. 

[stevie1874]

4 minutes ago, dougal said:

You can't honestly think we should keep the manager just because you can't think of anyone to replace him?? 

 

Steve Clarke has turned Kilmarnock round in a few months and he's done it with the majority of the squad who were previously struggling at the foot of the table. 

 

Changing manager can sometimes be enough to improve a club's fortunes. A different manager with a different footballing philosophy may mean that we actually don't need to get rid of or bring in that many new players during the summer.  

 

While top six isn't guaranteed it is also highly unlikely that we will be dragged into a relegation fight. So it would make sense to try and get a new manager in so he can assess the squad and see who he wants to keep and who will be getting shipped out so we can start next season with the squad that the new manager wants.

Cathro turned out to be a good choice as a new manager. Changing a manager every time things are not going exactly to plan is a recipe for disaster. So many clubs down south in a state due to trigger happy owners. 

[dougal]

9 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Cathro turned out to be a good choice as a new manager. Changing a manager every time things are not going exactly to plan is a recipe for disaster. So many clubs down south in a state due to trigger happy owners. 

The tail end of the administration season we actually played some good football and got some decent results yet we decided to change manager and what a difference it made. Teams at the bottom of leagues often change manager because it's the only thing that can be done during the season to maybe change their team's fortunes. So it's no surprise that some team's continue to struggle as it's obvious that the players in the team aren't good enough. But there are occasions where the change has worked. We made one mistake with Cathro but that doesn't mean we should continue with Levein just because one time a new manager did not work out how we wanted it to. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by dougal

[Beast Boy]

whurs yer Meduls Potter lol

 

Kickback 2018 = where you can’t tell some Hearts fans from the Vermin.

[frankblack]

11 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ahhh so the DOF comes out of his office and , along with the asst manager,  signs the good ones but poor old Ian Cathro gets blamed for the bad ones. So the DOF is involved in signing players after all.  That clears that one up then.

 

If there was any sign that Levein was capable of taking us forward then I would say so, but there aint. To see him shuffling about the touchline, outfoxed by managers like Steven Robinson and Neil Lennon, wondering why his tired out style isn't working is, to me, embarrassing. If Cathro was out of his depth then so too was Lee McCulloch.  There is very little difference between last season and this, very little. Cathro's team shipped more goals but scored more. If we had managed to bang 4 or 5 past Hamilton, Killie and Rangers this season , as we did under Cathro, then we woukd be in a better place. But CL has obviously got a minority of fans under a hypnotic spell of misplaced faith so you bash on and "believe". CL may well be kept on by AB for a summer signing splurge but he won't be using my ST money to do it that's for sure.

 

Its clear that you believe all the bad players signed are CL's fault but he gets none of the credit for the good ones.

 

Are you really trying to say that Berra was signed by Cathro's contacts or Levein's - the manager who brought him through at Hearts and managed him at International Level?

 

Under Cathro we were bottom of the form table for his duration in charge.  He inherited a good team and dismantled it and the remaining players didn't have any confidence in him.  I think McCulloch provided the ground work for Clarke's success, whereas we had months to untangle the mess before we had a recovery at the end of the year.

 

Injuries to Djoum and Mitchell - two of our best players - have killed our season as its clear we lack the depth to cover those injuries.

 

Some so called Hearts supporter you are, who won't back the team because you have a clear personal grudge against the manager.  Don't come bitching here if we don't have the funds to recruit the players to take us forward.   This forum is for supporters who go to the games they can afford to/geographically get to.

[Pagey]

At this stage, whether Levein is the right guy or not, I would like more transparency from AB re the situation at the club. It certainly seems that the DOF model as was is not the way forward and with Levein in the hotseat currently, I have doubts that we will return to that model. If that is the case, does that change the pool of potential managers we could attract/afford? Certainly, AB will not dispense with Levein easily so as long as he's held accountable for results like any other manager would be then fair enough. 

 

If the football department has improved then we should expect to see better recruitment decisions this summer. Certainly the academy is better, so far, but time will tell if this is a constant. I hope the scouts are working night and day to get a better quality of player in this summer and if they can succeed as a team under Levein then great. If not then the manager's role should rightly be questioned along with his backroom staff. I remain hopeful but not optimistic. 

[frankblack]

11 hours ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Really, do you read any of the posts I have made.

 

I am obsessed with Steve Clarke. The comments in my post were the first I have mentioned him. Which were in direct response to your post about Leviens record and I compared his taking over the reins to Steve Clarke.

 

Personally I wouldn’t want Clarke as manager because he will look to go back down south. I’d rather look at bringing someone outside the box in. I didn’t want Tommy Wright either last summer FYI.

 

Killie weren’t as bad as us. Hahahahahaha. Do your research before spouting off. When they got rid of McCulloch they had 3 points after 8 games. We were nowhere near that bad. Maybe you should have used my friend google before you made a fool of yourself.

 

Clarkes management has gained then 40 points out of 63. They have got a squad player for player that isn’t as good as ours on a wage bill not near as comparable as ours. This is from a manager who has ‘failed’ down south but has a record that is currently urinating over our current manager. 

 

So so now it’s the new stands fault that we haven’t had a good season. You’ve already claimed it was Cathro’s fault. You really are ticking all the boxes in the Levein acolyte bingo card for excuses as to why we’ve had a poor season. You gonna go with injuries in your next post. 

 

We we have a coach that is defensively minded. We play one up front who rarely has support making him easy to play against. We have wingers stuck on the bench.

 

We are going to be 5 or 6 players down on our preferred starting 11 for next season.

 

Our scouting is a shambles. 

 

We we need to install a new pitch which will be another chunk out of our playing budget next season and because of his defensive tactics, we draw too many games and it cost us a financial boost failing to get to last 4 of Scottish Cup. 

 

On the playing side of the business we are regressing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh dear.

 

I am getting fed up going in circles with some people that have it set in their minds that CL is the antichrist and responsible for everything bad.

 

Cathro had us bottom of the form table for his stint, which is some achievement with starting the job with your team in second place in the league.  I don't recall Killie having honking cup results like Peterhead and Dunfermline at home.  He should have been sacked before the end of last season to give us a chance.

 

McCulloch built and trained a fitter and better organised squad than ours, which made it easier for Clarke to come in and add a few decent players to turn things around properly.  We have a defence, no full backs, one striker with no pace, no midfield, and no width, and you expect that to challenge for anything in the league or cups?  Mitchell and Djoum's injuries ended our hopes this season and that is the simple fact.  Had they been available I think I'd have fancied our chances better against Motherwell and the vermin on Friday.

 

If all you have in your team is a decent defence then of course you have to play to your strengths - what do you propose - throw men forward recklessly and let teams pick us off?

[merseyjambo]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

 

Oh dear.

 

I am getting fed up going in circles with some people that have it set in their minds that CL is the antichrist and responsible for everything bad.

 

Cathro had us bottom of the form table for his stint, which is some achievement with starting the job with your team in second place in the league.  I don't recall Killie having honking cup results like Peterhead and Dunfermline at home.  He should have been sacked before the end of last season to give us a chance.

 

McCulloch built and trained a fitter and better organised squad than ours, which made it easier for Clarke to come in and add a few decent players to turn things around properly.  We have a defence, no full backs, one striker with no pace, no midfield, and no width, and you expect that to challenge for anything in the league or cups?  Mitchell and Djoum's injuries ended our hopes this season and that is the simple fact.  Had they been available I think I'd have fancied our chances better against Motherwell and the vermin on Friday.

 

If all you have in your team is a decent defence then of course you have to play to your strengths - what do you propose - throw men forward recklessly and let teams pick us off?

 

So let’s blame Cathro for the mess.

 

Who coveted him from day 1 post admin and appointed him as Head Coach. Oh that’s right CL.  So surely CL has to take theblame for making that appointment and setting us back. 

 

Killie didn't have any league cup howlers???? I suppose losing to your local rivals passes as a great result. 

 

Killie were better prepared. Really. McCullochs record at end of last season was almost as bad as Cathro. Difference is that they played in bottom half of table so picked up a few points there as opposed to playing the top half where we got pumped. 3 points from 8 games says his preparation for start of season was woeful. Oh and Cathro also has the injury to our top goal scorer at the time to contend with.

 

The point people are missing is that with the same squad of players Clarke has taken 40 out of 63 points including 17 since the last transfer window. He’s managed to get the team organised and playing football. You can look at the other end of the spectrum with Owen Coyle who got nothing out off Ross County and has left before they go down. He’s not changed the squad wholesale to get the results, he’s clearly someone who is getting the best out of the group of players he has.

 

Player for player our squad is better than Killies yet since CLs appointment 4 games before Clarke he taken less points. We have strikers who are getting no service or being played out of position. We have wingers who can create who are stuck on the bench. One up front only works if you have a striker who can hold ball up and a midfield who are close enough to him to come into play. Our midfield when ball gets launched to Lafferty is 30 yards away on the edge of their own box. We have the players to be able to hurt people but we don’t utilise them. We look to hold and try and sneak a win. I’d rather win 6 and lose 6 than draw 12. It gives you more points for a start. 

 

The loss of Mitchell has hurt us however Djoum really hasn’t. He’s barely kicked a ball in 2 years and would say that Milinkovic has been more influential this year yet he spends most of his time with splinters in his backside. 

[redm]

It isn't a simple case of finding the missing pieces or changing the manager and it'll all be ticketyboo. It's a sport so there's rarely any hard and fast certainties unless you're outright spending enough money to negate and minimise them, i.e. Celtic. The gap in spending between us and them means the effects of slumps in form, injuries, inexperience, unsettled squad etc don't have anywhere near the same impact as they do on us less financially capable teams. They just wipe out a lot of the risk and uncertainty with cash. 

 

We've added to our own uncertainty and risk by having a patchy squad with very little experience in some areas and no depth at all in terms of cover for some key positions. It's great to bring youth in when you can, and it's something that will eventually bring us tangible benefits further on, but it means less experience on the park, more mistakes and contributes to things like lapses in concentration and daft errors. Difficulty holding your nerve, shaky confidence, losing late goals, sloppy (or even just naive) defending, inconsistency in all areas of the park, inability to play as a cohesive unit, disjointed, flimsy midfield and players isolated up front.  More draws, more defeats, less wins. Add in a layer of bad or long-term injuries and it's an even more fragile sort of set up. Add in occasional tactical mistakes too, and a chunk of bad luck that we can't afford. Plus it's human beings and no matter how hard they train or how committed they are, sometimes they just have bad days or bad weeks. Or longer. 

 

Like I said on other threads, I have high hopes for this summer's transfer window. Hopefully a good few signings in key positions will be enough to reduce or mitigate a lot of the challenges we've had to face this season.

[broony1985]

Not bothering to read the whole thread so may have already been mentioned but, We get rid of Levein or he takes a step back into an office based position and who takes over?

Seriously who would come in and take over? who would want the job or who would you like to see take over (realistically).

 

Answers on a postcard please. 

 

 

 

[All Out Attack]

5 minutes ago, broony1985 said:

Not bothering to read the whole thread so may have already been mentioned but, We get rid of Levein or he takes a step back into an office based position and who takes over?

Seriously who would come in and take over? who would want the job or who would you like to see take over (realistically).

 

Answers on a postcard please. 

 

 

 

You are kidding right. 

 

The quality of candidates last time was outstanding. Of course we chose to employ the interviewer, however once Levein is gone, we can rebuild properly, clear out the trainee coaches and unite the support going forward. 

 

There is a sense of prolonging the inevitable with Levein at the moment. 

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, merseyjambo said:

 

So let’s blame Cathro for the mess.

 

Who coveted him from day 1 post admin and appointed him as Head Coach. Oh that’s right CL.  So surely CL has to take theblame for making that appointment and setting us back. 

 

Killie didn't have any league cup howlers???? I suppose losing to your local rivals passes as a great result. 

 

Killie were better prepared. Really. McCullochs record at end of last season was almost as bad as Cathro. Difference is that they played in bottom half of table so picked up a few points there as opposed to playing the top half where we got pumped. 3 points from 8 games says his preparation for start of season was woeful. Oh and Cathro also has the injury to our top goal scorer at the time to contend with.

 

The point people are missing is that with the same squad of players Clarke has taken 40 out of 63 points including 17 since the last transfer window. He’s managed to get the team organised and playing football. You can look at the other end of the spectrum with Owen Coyle who got nothing out off Ross County and has left before they go down. He’s not changed the squad wholesale to get the results, he’s clearly someone who is getting the best out of the group of players he has.

 

Player for player our squad is better than Killies yet since CLs appointment 4 games before Clarke he taken less points. We have strikers who are getting no service or being played out of position. We have wingers who can create who are stuck on the bench. One up front only works if you have a striker who can hold ball up and a midfield who are close enough to him to come into play. Our midfield when ball gets launched to Lafferty is 30 yards away on the edge of their own box. We have the players to be able to hurt people but we don’t utilise them. We look to hold and try and sneak a win. I’d rather win 6 and lose 6 than draw 12. It gives you more points for a start. 

 

The loss of Mitchell has hurt us however Djoum really hasn’t. He’s barely kicked a ball in 2 years and would say that Milinkovic has been more influential this year yet he spends most of his time with splinters in his backside. 

 

 

You just can't reason with some people.  Round and round in circles with so much personal hatred for CL and no solutions.

 

redm above has summed up things perfectly reasonably.