Levein is not the answer ( merged )

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

This is something that proper pisses me off. Convenient ways of misrepresenting our outgoings over Naismith. The money saved by horsing the players wages who were , Walkers (was time to go) and Isma (was always going to go) in January will mean as you say having in all likliehood not touching the transfer fees. 

 

The other thing that pisses me off is the fitness thing anyone who thinks you can get upto ? fitness as you would with a full preseason has ignored football players for years when its mentioned they havent had a proper preseason and doesnt understand fitness from a footballers view. You can not in all honesty get fully preseason fit whilst trying to play throughout the season. ICs insistence on ball play in preseason has in a league that is brutally physical and fast paced caused major damage. 

 

Opinions are fine but when they are uneducated or basically ficticious doesnt solve anything and just looks like a way to have a go at the club. Some posters on here get it others just seem to have their own agenda and it gets very frustrating to read.

 

 

Indeed. 

[Mars plastic]

9 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

You not still banned!!!!! Ffs that’s all we need.

Obviously not, and I can't even be disparaging to you as I'm on 4 warning points. Another one will see me off here for two weeks tae.

 

Anyway, get me more motorcycle vids. That one was a beauty!!

[merseyjambo]

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

 

You just can't reason with some people.  Round and round in circles with so much personal hatred for CL and no solutions.

 

redm above has summed up things perfectly reasonably.

 

 

So yet again when your posts prove to be factually inaccurate you put up a face palm emoji. How old exactly are you, because it# the actions of a 12 year old. If you want to put reasoned points across fine but when you chat poo expect to get shut down.

 

The point is that as DOF he has overseen the building of this squad through various managers. 

 

We have the players that can hurt teams but he doesn’t play them. When there’s 30 yards between your midfield and lone striker and no one for your striker to feed it off to we are going to struggle to score goals and win games. 

 

Next season we are faced with losing McLaughlin, Randall, Mitchell Adao, Naismith, Milinkovic, Hughes and Buaben. Djoum is out for a good part of next season. Almost a whole team. We should not be in the position where we are having to do this but we are because of poor recruitment overseen by our DOF. The moneyball policy was a folly. As a club with limited finances we can’t afford to speculate on players. Yet it was entertained. Cathro was a poor appointment and should have been emptied sooner but wasn’t because he was CLs man. If this was a business in mainstream industry, CL would have been emptied at the same time. 

 

The money wasted on signings then paying them off is money ploughed into the club by the fans. 

 

While I don’t believe CL is the answer I am circumspect enough to realise that he is likely to be in charge next season. He will have to hit the ground running as if he doesn’t those who are prepared to give him the summer will turn. I’d like him to set up more positively and use the attacking players we have to be allowed to express themselves and for us to show some attacking intent.

 

I’ll always support my team. I’ve followed them through worse times before. 

[1874robbo]

10 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

Obviously not, and I can't even be disparaging to you as I'm on 4 warning points. Another one will see me off here for two weeks tae.

 

Anyway, get me more motorcycle vids. That one was a beauty!!

You’re getting nothing else unless you profess your love for Craig levein.

[bobskeldon]

3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

So what do you think happened?

Dave, do you really believe that AB (and whoever else) states that the calibre of applicants was excellent but then thought “wait a minute, the perfect candidate is the guy along the corridor, you know the guy who has consistently said he didn’t want it and clearly didn’t want it when we played Celtic at Parkhead on the opening day, he’s even more excellent than the excellent candidates!” Really Dave? Is that what happened? 

[Mars plastic]

2 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

You’re getting nothing else unless you profess your love for Craig levein.

 

 

I told you yesterday we’ll win nixie as long as he’s at the club. You need to get on message, sahn.

[1874robbo]

5 minutes ago, Mars plastic said:

 

 

I told you yesterday we’ll win nixie as long as he’s at the club. You need to get on message, sahn.

You don’t know that for sure.

no many managers have won us something tbf.

[Pasquale for King]

35 minutes ago, sadj said:

Then i explained what my thought is on your position. In comparison to teams who had a proper preseason our fitness is lacking. Were off the pace in most games. You cannot sort that during the season. 

It is also not Leveins fault so that just shows what your agenda is. IC took preseason and that was because that was what his job was. If he felt that was the way to go he needed backed up. 

 

What @redm said earlier was spot on  aswell as @soonbe110 and @Ryder etc. 

 

Theres a whole lot more to it than simply Levein is crap. Hes in the firing line and deserves some criticism but not to the level hes getting nor for some of thenagenda driven drivel that is spouted. If you have ever been in football at a good level or have a pragmatic outlook on things you would understand that. 

 

Now if you dont agree thats fine but make your argument against the points sensible or just dont quote me. You know I rarely agree with your positions and theres a reason for it as Iv stated many times. Primary one being personal experience.

Could they not have had a mini pre season during the winter break if the fitness levels were poor?

[Mars plastic]

Just now, 1874robbo said:

You don’t know that for sure.

no many managers have won us something tbf.

No many managers think about winning a cup tie with only 4 mins to go either 

[1874robbo]

Just now, Mars plastic said:

No many managers think about winning a cup tie with only 4 mins to go either 

Yawn!!! You’re getting boring now.

mods can we ban this rocket!!!

[Mars plastic]

7 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Yawn!!! You’re getting boring now.

mods can we ban this rocket!!!

You’re no even a hearts fan. Seen you down at ER on Friday festooned in hibs gear!!

[1874robbo]

Aye I know, head to toe in it.

[davemclaren]

29 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

Dave, do you really believe that AB (and whoever else) states that the calibre of applicants was excellent but then thought “wait a minute, the perfect candidate is the guy along the corridor, you know the guy who has consistently said he didn’t want it and clearly didn’t want it when we played Celtic at Parkhead on the opening day, he’s even more excellent than the excellent candidates!” Really Dave? Is that what happened? 

I speculated in a later post what I think happened. 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

20 hours ago, Finlay James said:

 

Id give up mate, you're clutching at straws, it means zero that to date, he was won nothing.

 

It also shows that you gave no clue what is being built behind the scenes at Hearts.

Nobody has a clue what is being built unless they have a crystal ball. He has won nothing - that is a fact. It would be a big bit of wishful thinking to believe that would suddenly change.

[All Out Attack]

It looks like we have a really worrying split in our support once again This won't end well. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by All Out Attack

[scott herbertson]

7 minutes ago, All Out Attack said:

It looks like we have a really worrying split in our support once again This won't end well. 

 

 

It'll be fine, I’m not worried, we’ve been here and worse places many many times before

[soonbe110]

25 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

It'll be fine, I’m not worried, we’ve been here and worse places many many times before

Much worse and many, many times indeed  

[i wish jj was my dad]

6 hours ago, redm said:

 

I think we wanted Freedman and I think Freedman wanted to work at Hearts too, for a while anyway...until Crystal Palace came in late and made him an offer we couldn't compete with. That said, there's no reason to assume we met his basic terms and conditions given we didn't offer him the job straight away. 

 

Freedman's pal even signed up here just to talk him up and talk other candidates down iirc.  

That's my take as well

[sadj]

3 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Could they not have had a mini pre season during the winter break if the fitness levels were poor?

Yes you could and im sure that was done in as good a way as posisble but its not a replacement for a proper preseason. Thinking logically , your half way through a season and shattered and in need of a break before you start again (mentally and physically) as you werent properly prepared and have already been through approx 25/30competitive games. Its going to have limited benefits. Your also prepping for a hard cup tie first back and doing transfer business in a condensed period. A mini preseason is essentially what we had to give Amankwaa aswell. It will have improved fitness a bit but not enough. Kids will need rotated as they will be physically and also mentally drained. I dont think its a co-incidence that the players who have stood out this season are Demi , Berra , Milinkovic (at times) and McLoughlin. Everyone else has been inconsistent and off the pace at times imo. 

 

Its a poor state of affairs but remember Newcastle preseason we played really well and there was no reason to be concerned that ICs preseason methods hadnt worked.

[sadj]

39 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

That's my take as well

Yup id go with that and hed of fitted the profile we wanted better than anyone else mentioned. When that fell through it was a no brainer get CL in to settle things and sort the mess. If CL had come from outside all this would not of been raised and the abilities and career we’d be jumping for joy.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, sadj said:

Yes you could and im sure that was done in as good a way as posisble but its not a replacement for a proper preseason. Thinking logically , your half way through a season and shattered and in need of a break before you start again (mentally and physically) as you werent properly prepared and have already been through approx 25/30competitive games. Its going to have limited benefits. Your also prepping for a hard cup tie first back and doing transfer business in a condensed period. A mini preseason is essentially what we had to give Amankwaa aswell. It will have improved fitness a bit but not enough. Kids will need rotated as they will be physically and also mentally drained. I dont think its a co-incidence that the players who have stood out this season are Demi , Berra , Milinkovic (at times) and McLoughlin. Everyone else has been inconsistent and off the pace at times imo. 

 

Its a poor state of affairs but remember Newcastle preseason we played really well and there was no reason to be concerned that ICs preseason methods hadnt worked.

The players and Daly knew they weren’t fit enough, they probably should’ve rectified it then. They had two international breaks too which now seem to be a wee holiday for them.They shouldn’t have been to knackered after 26 games as we had used around 30 players at that point.

[Beast Boy]

11 minutes ago, sadj said:

Yup id go with that and hed of fitted the profile we wanted better than anyone else mentioned. When that fell through it was a no brainer get CL in to settle things and sort the mess. If CL had come from outside all this would not of been raised and the abilities and career we’d be jumping for joy.

 

I agree with this.

[@VladMagic]

1 hour ago, All Out Attack said:

It looks like we have a really worrying split in our support once again This won't end well. 

 

Which you actively encourage on a daily basis.

 

Why do you do that?

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 minutes ago, VladMagic said:

 

Which you actively encourage on a daily basis.

 

Why do you do that?

Cos he's hibs

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

Yup id go with that and hed of fitted the profile we wanted better than anyone else mentioned. When that fell through it was a no brainer get CL in to settle things and sort the mess. If CL had come from outside all this would not of been raised and the abilities and career we’d be jumping for joy.

No we wouldn't. An unemployed ex-manager who had been out of club football for  about 8 years.  No other clubs were interested in him and he hadn't previously come close to delivering a trophy for us. Our aspirations had moved on from Levein's last tenure - 2 more Scottish Cup wins helped formulate our ambitions - and we no longer view a 3rd place and SC QF exit as being successful.  We have to challenge for trophies and imo had it not been for ABs misplaced trust, he wouldn't even have been granted an interview under normal circumstances. 

[BobbyJenkins]

2 hours ago, All Out Attack said:

rbcess ?It looks like we have a really worrying split in our support once again This won't end well. 

Belt the **** up princess ?

[frankblack]

13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No we wouldn't. An unemployed ex-manager who had been out of club football for  about 8 years.  No other clubs were interested in him and he hadn't previously come close to delivering a trophy for us. Our aspirations had moved on from Levein's last tenure - 2 more Scottish Cup wins helped formulate our ambitions - and we no longer view a 3rd place and SC QF exit as being successful.  We have to challenge for trophies and imo had it not been for ABs misplaced trust, he wouldn't even have been granted an interview under normal circumstances. 

 

 

Did you copy and paste that reply from the last 50 posts you made on here?

Edited March 12, 2018 by frankblack

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

https://giphy.com/gifs/bill-murray-groundhog-day-well-its-again-3o7WIQ4FARJdpmUni8

 

Did you copy and paste that reply from the last 50 posts you made on here?

The thread is titled "Levein is not the answer"....Did you think we had moved on to discussing the mating habits of the Patagonian dung beetle?? Did you expect me to have changed my view on the back of the constant praise being showered on CL by his acolytes on here?? I was replying to an opinion from Sadj that we would have been "jumping for joy" if Levein had been appointed from out with the club. 

[Kiwidoug]

I don't think Ann Budge will be able to resist the ever increasing momentum on here for Gary Locke to be reappointed.  I don't think she should either.

 

He got the very best out of an extremely threadbare squad and he made a complete mess of Hibs.  Other than winning the championship which was terrific, his successors have achieved nothing with far greater resources.

[ford donald]

5 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

I don't think Ann Budge will be able to resist the ever increasing momentum on here for Gary Locke to be reappointed.  I don't think she should either.

 

He got the very best out of an extremely threadbare squad and he made a complete mess of Hibs.  Other than winning the championship which was terrific, his successors have achieved nothing with far greater resources.

 Would agree with that,had absolute no cash to spend.

[Kiwidoug]

5 minutes ago, ford donald said:

 Would agree with that,had absolute no cash to spend.

Your user name is a form of cruelty.  I grew up starting with Bauld and Wardhaugh supporting superb Hearts strikers.  The list is far too long to recite here but it included Willie Wallace, Donald Ford and the great Robbo.  What on earth has gone wrong since Robbo retired.

 

If anyone here suggests that our current or recent strikers could even lace the boots of the players i have mentioned, I will be officially angry.

 

The thing about Ford of course is that there was nothing to him.  You would have thought a gust of wind could have blown him over but he was lightening fast and he was deadly.

 

I think I'm going to burst into tears of frustration.

[frankblack]

35 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The thread is titled "Levein is not the answer"....Did you think we had moved on to discussing the mating habits of the Patagonian dung beetle?? Did you expect me to have changed my view on the back of the constant praise being showered on CL by his acolytes on here?? I was replying to an opinion from Sadj that we would have been "jumping for joy" if Levein had been appointed from out with the club. 

 

It doesn't matter what anyone counters your vindictive fictional accounts with, you and your small group of chums just repeat them after a few posts pass.  Debates are a two way thing - you have your fingers in your ears to ignore the hard truths.

[Governor Tarkin]

7 hours ago, All Out Attack said:

 

JKB isn't always reflective of the wider Hearts support or on social media as was evident under Cathro. 

 

It's nowhere near reflective of the wider Hearts support.

[Elmore]

9 hours ago, redm said:

 

No, that's not what I'm getting at. It's a follow up to the idea that we're mid-plan and the person managing us through that plan should be given time rather than stopping now and asking someone else to draw up something completely new, designed to address exactly the same challenges but with only a fraction of the knowledge of our players or predicament. I think it's daft when we can see progress has been made and coupled with Levein's track record, there's every reason to think progress will continue too.

 

Levein was DoF sure but it wasn't his signings. Now it is his signings. He has a great track record as a manager, and that's now how he's being judged primarily.

I asked this question a couple of days ago and never got a answer. I would genuinely like to know if Craig Levein has got a Jackie McNamara type deal on future player sales?  Anyone ITK confirm that this isn't the case.  

 

With thy the power he has at the club, you can't blame me for asking

Edited March 12, 2018 by Elmore

[sandylejambo]

While it's true that we have had really bad times under different management, ( Tommy McLean springs to mind), none of the guys who have been hated by a decent percentage of our support have been welcomed back at Tynecastle, it's safe to say a decent percentage hate Levein, at this time, his team selection and his tactics, as well as his results, and if he,s that devisive maybe the board should at least convene to discuss weather the manager is good for the club, my opinion is he's not

[Elmore]

.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Elmore
DP

[scott herbertson]

2 minutes ago, Elmore said:

I asked this question a couple of days ago and never got a answer. I would genuinely like to know if Craig Levein has got a Jackie McNamara type deal on future player sales?  Anyone ITK confirm that this isn't the case.  

 

Very unlikely - it's hard to see Budge going for that, given her business background

[NANOJAMBO]

7 hours ago, sadj said:

Were off the pace in most games. You cannot sort that during the season. 

 

 

Really ? Well lets assume that is correct. In which case IC sacrificed fitness over tactics and we went into a new season where the squad could NEVER be match fit ? Seriously ? So all the coaches, fitnesses coaches (assuming we have any) all kept quiet while we headed for disaster this season. Because if you are correct then their professional judgement is severely lacking. Of course CL didnt know anything about this because apparently its not his job and anyway no one told him. Hopefully they gaping hole in the management is now plugged. Personally i'd have disciplined the coaching staff for this. 

[Elmore]

3 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

Very unlikely - it's hard to see Budge going for that, given her business background

It would be good to have this confirmed. 

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, Elmore said:

I asked this question a couple of days ago and never got a answer. I would genuinely like to know if Craig Levein has got a Jackie McNamara type deal on future player sales?  Anyone ITK confirm that this isn't the case.  

 

With thy the power he has at the club, you can't blame me for asking

If he has he wont have made much out of it.

[scott herbertson]

1 minute ago, Elmore said:

It would be good to have this confirmed. 

 

 

Only way I can see that being answered would be at the AGM

[Elmore]

8 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Only way I can see that being answered would be at the AGM

I'm not saying it's true. Would you be comfortable with any manager having any type of deal at the club. Would you accept it? 

[sadj]

5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

The players and Daly knew they weren’t fit enough, they probably should’ve rectified it then. They had two international breaks too which now seem to be a wee holiday for them.They shouldn’t have been to knackered after 26 games as we had used around 30 players at that point.

I appreciate your position but having been there and missed a full preseason before its absolute ****storm trying to get that fitness back and you need the rest when you can get it mentally aswell as physically. When your not fully fit you pick up lots niggly injuries aswell. (That should resonate with you in relation to our season) Its like a giant snowball that keeps rolling until the end of the season when you can reset. 

[sadj]

11 hours ago, MadJock said:

 

Totally agree,  these players are meant to be professionals, if they can't keep themself to a resonable level of fitness maybe they should be doing something diffrent.

 

if its true it also bring up the question of what do they actually do in training these days  ??

 

Another excuse to try and justify the poor product on the pitch, sorry fitness should never be an issue for a sportsperson unless its after an injury

Clearly you have never played football at a high level not have you paid attention to Hearts preseason last year and what th focus was on. I said already its no coincidence Berra etc are standouts and been our most successful players this season. You can call it an excuse if you want but my position is from being in similar situations and knowing the difference it made to me personally. It is also not a reason to pop at CL as im sure youll feel after reading your other posts. ICs methods had people on here peeing there pants with excitement for the season ahead after the newcastle game. If you think fitness has had no bearing on the amount of niggly injuries weve had this year then again you haven’t been involved at that level. 

[sadj]

3 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Really ? Well lets assume that is correct. In which case IC sacrificed fitness over tactics and we went into a new season where the squad could NEVER be match fit ? Seriously ? So all the coaches, fitnesses coaches (assuming we have any) all kept quiet while we headed for disaster this season. Because if you are correct then their professional judgement is severely lacking. Of course CL didnt know anything about this because apparently its not his job and anyway no one told him. Hopefully they gaping hole in the management is now plugged. Personally i'd have disciplined the coaching staff for this. 

I ? get where you are coming from but id imagine the thinking of IC with his oppressive arrogance was more sacrifice the fitness , focus on ball work and play the teams off the park with an attitude of we will have ball control and possession so we wont need to worry about the pace of scottish football catching us out. May work in other countries but not here unfortunately. (Another reason I think you’ll find IC is still highly regarded in football) As I said in the Newcastle preseason game we looked good as was gushed over on here by many with high expectations for the season. You can raise concerns and im sure coaches and CL did however as weve seen CL backed his head coach against his better judgement many times (ripping up Robbies team , Sammon etc) no one is going to come out and repeat the line yeah our fitness is crap but to me its obvious and you can see the player/s who have that better 24/7 athlete attitude standing out head and shoulders above everyone. 

[sadj]

3 hours ago, Elmore said:

I'm not saying it's true. Would you be comfortable with any manager having any type of deal at the club. Would you accept it? 

I would like to think no because its depriving the club of money. But as scott said agm is the place to ask and no i wouldnt accept it. Its part of what has destroyed Dundee Utd and put them in financial difficulty.

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Really ? Well lets assume that is correct. In which case IC sacrificed fitness over tactics and we went into a new season where the squad could NEVER be match fit ? Seriously ? So all the coaches, fitnesses coaches (assuming we have any) all kept quiet while we headed for disaster this season. Because if you are correct then their professional judgement is severely lacking. Of course CL didnt know anything about this because apparently its not his job and anyway no one told him. Hopefully they gaping hole in the management is now plugged. Personally i'd have disciplined the coaching staff for this. 

It's not true Nano. People are using it as a convenient excuse to blame Cathro.  Even if they were not quite as fit as they should be then it would have been rectified by now. Pre-season training is not like it was 30 years ago where players came back 2 stone overweight and then ran up the Gullane sands to burn it off. They are all given  personal schedules to stick to during the summer and the pre-season training is just a top up.  It's just absolute nonsense to suggest that pre season fitness is affecting our results now.  It's only a matter of weeks since Austin MacPhee was raving about how far Don Cowie runs during a game (12k I think). 

[Elmore]

3 hours ago, sadj said:

I would like to think no because its depriving the club of money. But as scott said agm is the place to ask and no i wouldnt accept it. Its part of what has destroyed Dundee Utd and put them in financial difficulty.

It's why I ask. Was McNamarra the first to get a deal like that at Utd or did levein have a deal like that before him? It's a question worth getting an answer on. Anyone know for sure if he has or not? 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

6 minutes ago, Elmore said:

It's why I ask. Was McNamarra the first to get a deal like that at Utd or did levein have a deal like that before him? It's a question worth getting an answer on. Anyone know for sure if he has or not? 

Deary me. It isn't good enough to have a go at Craig Levein for performances now. We now have to start a whispering campaign that he is somehow lining his own pockets.

[Elmore]

13 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Deary me. It isn't good enough to have a go at Craig Levein for performances now. We now have to start a whispering campaign that he is somehow lining his own pockets.

Get a grip you.  Asking a question is a whispering campaign. If he hasn't, fine. Anything wrong with asking a question? So your saying he definitely hasn't. If he did, would you be alright with that? When I originally asked the question, I did say might be well off the mark. Let me know what I can ask in future.