Levein is not the answer ( merged )

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, All Out Attack said:

You are kidding right. 

 

The quality of candidates last time was outstanding. Of course we chose to employ the interviewer, however once Levein is gone, we can rebuild properly, clear out the trainee coaches and unite the support going forward. 

 

There is a sense of prolonging the inevitable with Levein at the moment. 

 

Billy Davies, Steven Pressley, Owen Coyle.  Yeah sure - Steve MacLaren threw his name in the ring but he was never going to take the job.

[All Out Attack]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Billy Davies, Steven Pressley, Owen Coyle.  Yeah sure - Steve MacLaren threw his name in the ring but he was never going to take the job.

As soon as Levein is no longer there,  we will be inundated with candidates. We all know how it works. 

[frankblack]

Just now, All Out Attack said:

As soon as Levein is no longer there,  we will be inundated with candidates. We all know how it works. 

 

No. Please enlighten us.

 

I don't see the likes of Jose Mourinho or Pep Guardiola ever rushing to join us.  Drop some names if you are so confident we would pull a big name - I think we can rule out Steve Clarke.

 

I don't see any promising managers in Scotland with SPL experience just now that we could target.

[Lucille's Thirsty]

I can’t help but understand the frustration some poster have about CL. I am on the side that I think it would completely regenerate the feel good factor if Levein just cut all ties off with the club. Going into the new season with a different perspective with someone new in charge could give the whole club a boost and all pulling in the same direction. But I’m a realist and CL will be given as long as he needs to maybe get our act together. Which is underwhelming to me but he just might get it right. Get behind him and see what happens next year.

[BobbyJenkins]

If Levein isnt the answer what or who is? And if that person doesnt work does it mean Ann Budge doesnt care and were being taken for mugs?

You either park whats happened in past and get on with it or greet about shit you cant change. I know which I prefer.

[manaliveits105]

Sir Craig will get us back on course - there is no one better out there  - Clarke is carrying a bit of good fortune and a plastic pitch advantage - it wont last 

[Escobar PHM]

10 minutes ago, BobbyJenkins said:

If Levein isnt the answer what or who is? And if that person doesnt work does it mean Ann Budge doesnt care and were being taken for mugs?

 

To me the answer is discontinue the DOF role, Get rid of Levein  altogether or shift him to Academy Director (where he seems to be able to get a structure and a bit of production going) Appoint a CEO who has a grounding in football (Someone like Leanne Dempster - maybe even her !!) Open the managers job up for applicants and see what washes up on the shore. The standard of applicant was excellent the last time we did it Ann said.

 

Its exactly what will be done when Ann Budge hands over to FOH anyway so we might as well do it now.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[ScottieMac17]

Tbh Levein might not be the answer but realistically we will not get any world beater coaches that want to come to us. 

 

We tried an 'out the box' option with Cathro and it failed miserably.

 

If we get ride of Levein, I really cant think of anyone who would come to us for the long run and make us better.

 

We need to clear out most of our rubbish squad and start again, similar to what we done in the championship (I know that was for different reasons), If we don't then next year will be just as bad if not worse. 

 

I'm not sure even Pep Guardiola would do anything with the players we have.

 

Iv yet to see any names of managers who realistically would come here and make us better.

[RustyRightPeg]

I agree. However, I'm not a season ticket holder & I don't often get along to games. I more rely on HeartsTV & TV games.

 

My reasons why, based on the Motherwell game & Friday's performance alone, as follows:

 

1. Our strikers. Both of them, Lafferty & Naismith were pants on Friday. Lafferty looked like he was running in quick sand all night. McGregor ran past him 3 or 4 times to get onto loose balls. Embarrassing. Steven "Brick Wall" Naismith, was also murder. Anytime we passed him the ball it bounced about 20 yards back off him to put us in a worse position than when we started the move. Also that trip in the box... 

 

2. Overall squad depth. We don't have enough players ready for first team games. Losing the likes of Stockton is now looking like a bigger thing than it should be. We don't have an alternative to Laff. A striker who can get in behind is a must. Look at Kamberi & Maclaren (a guy who we supposedly knocked back). Both gave Berra & Souttar problems on Friday with direct runs off their shoulders, as well as going short to mix it up. We looked one dimensional & predictable. Perhaps spending big on a few players is now looking like it should've been spread more over cheaper more raw options. Our reliance on youth players is now coming back to bite us in a sense. I would like to make it clear however, I am not against playing youth players as I understand it is a massive part of the club infrastructure.

 

3. Negative outlook. We never looked like taking a chance on Friday. Kris Commons said at halftime we looked determined not to lose & not even bothered about winning which I agree with. Yes, I know Hibs were up for it and coming all guns blazing (as we should've been too) but sitting in, even after going 1 down isn't the way we should be playing.

 

4. Outdated Tactics & Lack of Plan B. Personally, I feel football has outgrown Levein. His old school tactics do not suit us now. If you look at the teams above us in the league, they all have a style of play that suits the team it's built around. Clarke has turned Killie into one of the best teams to watch in the country with an attractive brand of football.  We insist on shunting the ball & it's not good to watch at all. Nor is it proving effective.

 

 

 

[frankblack]

8 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

To me the answer is discontinue the DOF role, Get rid of Levein  altogether or shift him to Academy Director (where he seems to be able to get a structure and a bit of production going) Appoint a CEO who has a grounding in football (Someone like Leanne Dempster - maybe even her !!) Open the managers job up for applicants and see what washes up on the shore. The standard of applicant was excellent the last time we did it Ann said.

 

Its exactly what will be done when Ann Budge hands over to FOH anyway so we might as well do it now.

 

So you want to sack/demote Levein (demotion would be considered constructive dismissal).  Therefore we have a hefty compensation package to pay.

 

Next you want to replace his DOF role with a CEO role of someone who is in a job elsewhere and thus pay compensation to their club too?

 

Finally you want a new manager but won't say who you think would join us that would do better?

 

Aye, that will work out well.

[Greedy_Jambo]

Anyone know when the next press conference will be?

It seems to be a bit quiet at the moment. I was expecting someone behind the scenes to come out and say something before the planes start circling tynecastle. 

[All Out Attack]

36 minutes ago, BobbyJenkins said:

If Levein isnt the answer what or who is? And if that person doesnt work does it mean Ann Budge doesnt care and were being taken for mugs?

You either park whats happened in past and get on with it or greet about shit you cant change. I know which I prefer.

Ah.. The good old circular argument. Who else other than Levein, as if it is possible to predict who is likely to apply.

 

For jobs paying large six figure sums you often get 100's of applications.

 

This nonsense was trotted out by lots of people who were reluctant to move Cathro on. Every manager has a shelf life and Levein has now passed his. 

 

Change can be a good thing... 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by All Out Attack

[davemclaren]

23 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

To me the answer is discontinue the DOF role, Get rid of Levein  altogether or shift him to Academy Director (where he seems to be able to get a structure and a bit of production going) Appoint a CEO who has a grounding in football (Someone like Leanne Dempster - maybe even her !!) Open the managers job up for applicants and see what washes up on the shore. The standard of applicant was excellent the last time we did it Ann said.

 

Its exactly what will be done when Ann Budge hands over to FOH anyway so we might as well do it now.

Why do you think that will happen when FoH have the majority shareholding?

 

Was the standard of candidate really excellent the last time? The one I fancied most was Freedman and he ultimately took another job.  

[amadjambo]

Cathro should have been binned at the end of last season and then we could have properly rebuilt in the summer. The next mistake was waiting until the Summer window nearly closed before deciding to appoint Levein. Further mistakes were made in the January window where we did nothing to address the weaknesses in the squad, and actually left ourselves with only 1 striker.

 

So frustrating.

[Escobar PHM]

10 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

So you want to sack/demote Levein (demotion would be considered constructive dismissal).  Therefore we have a hefty compensation package to pay.

 

Next you want to replace his DOF role with a CEO role of someone who is in a job elsewhere and thus pay compensation to their club too?

 

Finally you want a new manager but won't say who you think would join us that would do better?

 

Aye, that will work out well.

I have no idea what Leveins contract says as regards compensation for termination. We paid termination compensation plenty of time in the past. If we have to do it again to move the club forward then so be it. Its miles better than falling attendances, losing money through lower league positions and early cup exits and a drop of in FOH contributions.

 

We need a football administrator at the head of the club (not a director of football) those cost money and then they spend their time hopefully saving money and generating extra revenue. I don't see Levein doing that at the minute (generating extra revenue etc etc )You cant make an omelette without breaking eggs.

 

I said in my first post that it should go to applicants. Ann Budge stated quite specifically last time that there were several excellent applications. We should have picked one then. Instead we went for that fecking useless tool.

 

 

[Escobar PHM]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Why do you think that will happen when FoH have the majority shareholding?

 

Was the standard of candidate really excellent the last time? The one I fancied most was Freedman and he ultimately took another job.  

I don't know who applied. Ann Budge said some of them were excellent. Why she didnt employ one of them is beyond me and was never explained I'm afraid

[Hopeful Hibs Hater]

2 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

Cathro should have been binned at the end of last season and then we could have properly rebuilt in the summer. The next mistake was waiting until the Summer window nearly closed before deciding to appoint Levein. Further mistakes were made in the January window where we did nothing to address the weaknesses in the squad, and actually left ourselves with only 1 striker.

 

So frustrating.

Totally agree, Levein will get it right in a couple windows.

[Escobar PHM]

11 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Why do you think that will happen when FoH have the majority shareholding?

 

 

I cant imagine that a ruling body partly elected every now and  then by the fans will keep Levein in post if he is still there and still failing when they take over. He'll be out of contract by then anyway unless AB looks after him.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

I cant imagine that a ruling body partly elected every now and  then by the fans will keep Levein in post if he is still there and still failing when they take over. He'll be out of contract by then anyway unless AB looks after him.

I think fans overestimate the influence the 'mass view' will have when FoH own the club. I take your point about his contract though. I think if Ann goes Craig would probably go as well, anyway. 

[ford donald]

11 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

I don't know who applied. Ann Budge said some of them were excellent. Why she didnt employ one of them is beyond me and was never explained I'm afraid

 Looked like a money saving appointment.No other reason,interviews after interviews,then some wag in the boardroom,says we have the manager here!

 

[ford donald]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I think fans overestimate the influence the 'mass view' will have when FoH own the club. I take your point about his contract though. I think if Ann goes Craig would probably go as well, anyway. 

 

Guarenteed.

[BobbyJenkins]

24 minutes ago, All Out Attack said:

Ah.. The good old circular argument. Who else other than Levein, as if it is possible to predict who is likely to apply.

 

For jobs paying large six figure sums you often get 100's of applications.

 

This nonsense was trotted out by lots of people who were reluctant to move Cathro on. Every manager has a shelf life and Levein has now passed his. 

 

Change can be a good thing... 

 

 

 

It can be a good thing but it can also be a bad thing. Ill take the long view, as always.

[Coco]

The club already has an Academy Director.  No need to keep Levein on in that role if he is removed from management. 

 

A clean fresh start with all of the first team management and coaching staff leaving makes more sense.  The strictures of the last recruitment effort where MacPhee was not allowed to be replaced with the new head coach's choice made no sense.

[Gambo]

2 minutes ago, Coco said:

The club already has an Academy Director.  No need to keep Levein on in that role if he is removed from management. 

 

A clean fresh start with all of the first team management and coaching staff leaving makes more sense.  The strictures of the last recruitment effort where MacPhee was not allowed to be replaced with the new head coach's choice made no sense.

This, it has to be a proper clear out, no falling back to another job within the club.

[JamboAl]

23 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

I don't know who applied. Ann Budge said some of them were excellent. Why she didnt employ one of them is beyond me and was never explained I'm afraid

The answer is that the BOARD decided they had a better man in house after considering all the factors.

[Escobar PHM]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The answer is that the BOARD decided they had a better man in house after considering all the factors.

Sorry but I didn't believe that release. It stinks.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Escobar PHM said:

Sorry but I didn't believe that release. It stinks.

So what do you think happened?

[ford donald]

3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

So what do you think happened?

£££££££££ saving.

[Escobar PHM]

7 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

So what do you think happened?

What does it matter ?

 

I don't know and I'm not opening myself up to being ridiculed for speculating. I believe we weren't told the true story about how Levein came to be appointed because some of it would be potentially embarrassing if it got out.

 

If folk want to think that we had a 'Eureka' moment and suddenly realised Levein could do the job, after nearly 3 weeks of  disseminating applications and interviewing external candidates (some of whom were 'excellent' lets not forget) that's up to them

Edited March 12, 2018 by Escobar PHM

[redm]

1 hour ago, Lucille's Thirsty said:

I can’t help but understand the frustration some poster have about CL. I am on the side that I think it would completely regenerate the feel good factor if Levein just cut all ties off with the club. Going into the new season with a different perspective with someone new in charge could give the whole club a boost and all pulling in the same direction. But I’m a realist and CL will be given as long as he needs to maybe get our act together. Which is underwhelming to me but he just might get it right. Get behind him and see what happens next year.

 

For me personally, I'm more interested in keeping our nerve and continuing our build towards something sustainable than I am in achieving some sort of  temporary supporter unity.  Especially when unity means little more than having less arguments on an internet forum or in the pub. The Levein factions aren't having much impact in the real world on real things.) Plus any unity will only last until the next time fans decide they need a new target for snark and start having a go or hiring stupid planes and demanding their head on the block next. I don't think that two mins of a feel good factor is worth taking steps to rip up the current plan and embark on yet another phase of instability. It's not for me at all. I'll feel good when we're winning more regularly and things are less unpredictable and that won't come from changing things around all the time, especially not when we already have someone with a proven track record in the dugout.

[the_jailer]

1 hour ago, ScottieMac17 said:

I'm not sure even Pep Guardiola would do anything with the players we have.

 

I bet the Killie fans said the same about their squad. But look at the job Steve Clarke has done there 

[MadJock]

To the people asking who would take over if CL moves on / gets punted, the answer is no-one knows, thats just playing fantasy football and untill the job is actually advertised no-one will have any clue as to the type of manager that wants the job. Also the next applicant could have been the biggest flop at his last club and a success here or a success at his last and a flop here, thats football no-one knows and playing fantasy what if's aint going to address the mess we are in at present.

 

I really wished for CL to be a success, i always wish for a successful hearts team, there no point suppoting them IMO otherwise. The way i see it is this, again its only my opinion

 

He was a defensive player ( a really good one (i old enenough to remember), his mind set is defensive football, everything i have seen this season echo's that. I hate watching that type of football and all i can see is more of the same next season which hardly fills me with the feel good factor that we are in fact moving forward.

 

My memory might be going (getting a bit old now) but I sure it was C Brown  as Scotland manager who said " if you don't lose a goal, you can't get beat (or something similar) and while thats true I had to stop watching Scotland as it was terrible football to watch. I have been watching the same type of football the last 2 years (debatable) or especialy since CL took over.

 

There also the fact ( I could be wrong here) that the clubs (so his ) vision is still to promote trainee coaches into the top job, that really shows me that he has not learned from his mistake (the cathro  experiment).

 

I really envy the fans who can blindly follow the club reguardless of who is in charge, you are definatly a class of your own, I can't do it anymore, I go to football to be entertained, yes some days i am dissapointed but over a season it used to balence itself out. I can't really say I have been entertained this season, and I have seen nothing that makes me think next season is going to be diffrent.

 

Oh I will be more than happy to eat the biggest slice of humble pie next season if i am proved wrong.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Escobar PHM said:

What does it matter ?

 

I don't know and I'm not opening myself up to being ridiculed for speculating. I believe we weren't told the true story about how Levein came to be appointed because some of it would be potentially embarrassing if it got out.

 

If folk want to think that we had a 'Eureka' moment and suddenly realised Levein could do the job, after nearly 3 weeks of  disseminating applications and interviewing external candidates that's up to them

I will speculate then. I think any preferred candidates ( doubt there were many ) didn't want the job and Craig was then seen as the best option. Reasons are likely to be they got other jobs, wanted too much money or wanted some terms and conditions unacceptable to the board. 

[smiler]

10 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

Maybe Gary Locke is the answer and always was.  To use that hideous phrase he ticks all the boxes.  Worked hard for no wages.  Bleeds maroon.  Hates Hibs.

 

I would welcome him back with great enthusiasm.

[redm]

15 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Sorry but I didn't believe that release. It stinks.

 

So you believe her when she says there were exellent alternative options but you don't believe her when she says they decided they had the ideal candidate right there already? 

 

 

 

[King prawn]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

Billy Davies, Steven Pressley, Owen Coyle.  Yeah sure - Steve MacLaren threw his name in the ring but he was never going to take the job.

 

Outstanding according to the poster you replied to.

 

Only decent name there was Paulo Sergio and I'm never fullly convinced on managers returning

 

Edit : and O'Neill but he was never coming to Hearts imo.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by King prawn

[MadJock]

13 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

So what do you think happened?

 

Well this really depends on who you believe as some press statements after the fact could have been soar grapes.

 

Keeping Mcphee was allegidly a condition - since most managers bring there own staff that would have surely put off some candidates (if its true).

 

The time it took, pretty sure some candidates found other jobs while our board pondered over the applicants.

 

Working under a DoF - reguardless of who the DoF is, thats a put of for some as they want to be seen as head honcho

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, MadJock said:

 

Well this really depends on who you believe as some press statements after the fact could have been soar grapes.

 

Keeping Mcphee was allegidly a condition - since most managers bring there own staff that would have surely put off some candidates (if its true).

 

The time it took, pretty sure some candidates found other jobs while our board pondered over the applicants.

 

Working under a DoF - reguardless of who the DoF is, thats a put of for some as they want to be seen as head honcho

I’m sure those were some of the factors. 

[frankblack]

8 minutes ago, redm said:

 

For me personally, I'm more interested in keeping our nerve and continuing our build towards something sustainable than I am in achieving some sort of  temporary supporter unity.  Especially when unity means little more than having less arguments on an internet forum or in the pub. The Levein factions aren't having much impact in the real world on real things.) Plus any unity will only last until the next time fans decide they need a new target for snark and start having a go or hiring stupid planes and demanding their head on the block next. I don't think that two mins of a feel good factor is worth taking steps to rip up the current plan and embark on yet another phase of instability. It's not for me at all. I'll feel good when we're winning more regularly and things are less unpredictable and that won't come from changing things around all the time, especially not when we already have someone with a proven track record in the dugout.

 

This is where I'm at.

 

Sadly there are too many people living in the delusions of the Romanov and Robinson eras where we spent ridiculously beyond our means and almost went out of existence.  The reality is that to live within our means we can't afford a lot of the players we might like.

 

We keep hearing the same circular arguments about sacking Levein and his staff but there are no suggestions of who might actually take the job in the circumstances they will find themselves in i.e. rebuilding a team with an extremely limited budget.

[redm]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I will speculate then. I think any preferred candidates ( doubt there were many ) didn't want the job and Craig was then seen as the best option. Reasons are likely to be they got other jobs, wanted too much money or wanted some terms and conditions unacceptable to the board. 

 

I think we wanted Freedman and I think Freedman wanted to work at Hearts too, for a while anyway...until Crystal Palace came in late and made him an offer we couldn't compete with. That said, there's no reason to assume we met his basic terms and conditions given we didn't offer him the job straight away. 

 

Freedman's pal even signed up here just to talk him up and talk other candidates down iirc.  

[davemclaren]

Just now, redm said:

 

I think we wanted Freedman and I think Freedman wanted to work at Hearts too, for a while anyway...until Crystal Palace came in late and made him an offer we couldn't compete with. That said, there's no reason to assume we met his basic terms and conditions given we didn't offer him the job straight away. 

 

Freedman's pal even signed up here just to talk him up and talk other candidates down iirc.  

I think you are correct. ?

[redm]

11 minutes ago, MadJock said:

 

Well this really depends on who you believe as some press statements after the fact could have been soar grapes.

 

Keeping Mcphee was allegidly a condition - since most managers bring there own staff that would have surely put off some candidates (if its true).

 

The time it took, pretty sure some candidates found other jobs while our board pondered over the applicants.

 

Working under a DoF - reguardless of who the DoF is, thats a put of for some as they want to be seen as head honcho

 

Seems to work out ok for Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs and heaps of other bigger and more successful clubs than them.

[Walter Kidd]

Please, please, please, find a system which we play regardless of the opposition.  The constant tinkering does us no favours at all.  I'd far rather go down fighting playing "our way", than having a different team, tactics, game plan every week.  Have we played the same team once this season?  (I realise there have been injuries etc.)

 

It's pish poor.  I hate going down there and getting beat.  Hate it.  I also hate the fact that we do not have a settled system in place since the summer when our manager stepped back in.  Why can't we play like we did against Celtic and go for the jugular of teams?  Why did it change?  Why does it always change?

 

We're brutal, pure and simple.  Roll on the summer.

 

Grumpy from the Gorgie.

[BobbyJenkins]

Get us a midfield and dont be so unlucky with injuries.

[redm]

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

This is where I'm at.

 

Sadly there are too many people living in the delusions of the Romanov and Robinson eras where we spent ridiculously beyond our means and almost went out of existence.  The reality is that to live within our means we can't afford a lot of the players we might like.

 

We keep hearing the same circular arguments about sacking Levein and his staff but there are no suggestions of who might actually take the job in the circumstances they will find themselves in i.e. rebuilding a team with an extremely limited budget.

 

Agreed. Any new manager would be faced with exactly the same post-Cathro challenges that we have to deal with now too. It sometimes reads as if people think bringing in someone (anyone!) new will automatically be a magical superquick fix. 

 

 

[SpruceBringsteen]

Goals are quite nice

[MadJock]

7 minutes ago, redm said:

 

Seems to work out ok for Rangers, Aberdeen, Hibs and heaps of other bigger and more successful clubs than them.

 

Since taking time probably cost Rangers Mcinnes I guess you refering to the Dof role - yes it works well down south and abroad, lots of things work well elsewhere but unfortunaly do not seem to work here, Hibs do not have a DoF (if i am wrong then please correct me) and other clubs can probably sweeten the offer with better saleries than us.

[Bull's-eye]

Don't read JKB.

[Bigkyle]

Attack attack Attack!!!! **** the clean sheets. Let's outscore teams 

[Neon]

Ah, So all the injuries are just tinkering.

 

I thought it had to do with filling positions.thanks for correcting me.