ri Alban Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Hopefully May is planning on giving the leave voters what they want, a full English Brexit. With no possible trade deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Francis Albert said: So insignificant the EU demanded agreement before any negotiation even on the transition agreement could begin! Exactly they are pretty desperate for that money. The UK economy is great than 13 (I think was the number) of EU countries combined. But £39billion is insignificant to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, ri Alban said: Hopefully May is planning on giving the leave voters what they want, a full English Brexit. With no possible trade deal. And why exactly would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said: Net contributions but still significant. Ireland are net gainers but don't appear on that list. Another 8 countries missing I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairyinthat Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Wonder the value of Britain to Europe in export of goods/services/Citizens visiting-holidaying is.And the value for the same going in the reverse direction? Would like to see the totals so we could subtract one from the other and judge who the beneficeries are,I'm guessing it wont be the British. So in advance get us oot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Plan B aye? Plan B, as in B for alpha (alfa). The listening is a sham. The working with colleagues is a sham. The reaching out is a sham. The disappointment at others seeing through the sham.. is a sham. The strategy is to either force her deal through with menaces, or to crash out and dump the blame on Labour. The counter strategy can only now be to explore any possible parliamentary devices to force control over to parliament. If not possible then I think we're crashing out with no transition period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynecastle Valhalla Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Is it possible there will be another vote ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 minute ago, wallace_mercer said: Is it possible there will be another vote ? Guarantee it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 What a cluster**** !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Mysterion said: It will see many look at proportional representation as a solution to the current blocks of MPs in parliament. As soon as its touted the establishment will shit down any discussion/debate on it though. There was a referendum on the Alternative Vote back in 2011 during the Coalition. 67.9% voted for leaving things as they are. The people were asked if they wanted a fairer Westminster, they said no ta. Edited January 21, 2019 by Cade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Cade said: There was a referendum on the Alternative Vote back in 2011 during the Coalition. 67.9% voted for leaving things as they are. The people were asked if they wanted a fairer Westminster, they said no ta. Or they decided it wouldn't be "fairer"? Damn, they gave the wrong answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, jake said: Guarantee it. Then maybe a 3rd or 4th or 5th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I've always been curious as to the remain voters reasons for staying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said: Then maybe a 3rd or 4th or 5th? Only if the second and third and fourth give the wrong answer. As soon as we give the right answer that will be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Only if the second and third and fourth give the wrong answer. As soon as we give the right answer that will be it. Indeed. Not like the EU haven't got history for this either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said: Rees-Mogg says use the £39 billion exit payment as a negotiation tool. UK: Wreck your single market or we'll withhold payment of a tiny percentage of your GDP. EU: Er, no. Next plan plz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Thunderstruck said: Net contributions but still significant. Given that Croatia, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta and Slovenia seem to have already departed from the European Union, why would they worry about losing one more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Sky News reporting an official Border Farce document outlining the degree of difficulty at the channel ports in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Quite staggering numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 hours ago, JAYEL said: Interesting from FB though don’t know the author .........: Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it Such utter drivel..full of lies, misinformation and false predictions You really are desperate with some of that nonsense Why don't you just be honest and say its all about immigration for you Do you really think anyone buys your lies...what world do you live in where the UK can't teach electronic technology due to EU rules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 22 minutes ago, CJGJ said: Such utter drivel..full of lies, misinformation and false predictions You really are desperate with some of that nonsense Why don't you just be honest and say its all about immigration for you Do you really think anyone buys your lies...what world do you live in where the UK can't teach electronic technology due to EU rules ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 I think May is holding her position knowing that MP’s will eventually vote on an amendment that provides a second referendum or an extension. Then she can legitimately say to the 17m that she didn’t cave. Those 17m will be unforgiving of any MP who backs a second referendum or rules out hard Brexit. Most of those MP’s will be labour and she knows that’s a load of seats up for grabs. It’s is a risky strategy but she is forcing MP’s from other parties to overturn the referendum. So confusing though might be totally wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Cadbury was sold to the US giant Kraft (now Mondelez International ) after being given the nod by the UK government against the advice of several civil service bodies who warned that Kraft would screw the workers over and off-shore production, costing the UK treasury hundreds of millions in tax revenue. Kraft made some wishy washy pledges (sound familiar?) about staying in the UK and not affecting worker's rights blah blah blah. Government pushed through the sale and Kraft immediately reneged on their pledges. 7 days after the sale, they fired hundreds of UK workers, closed the factories and moved to Poland and Romania. Where the EU comes into this story was to force Kraft to divest Cadbury factories OUT of Poland and Romania as it was contravening EU monopolies and competition laws. The Polish division was sold to a Korean company. The Romanian division was sold back to it's original family owners in Austria. Kraft have, since then, also closed a Cadbury factory in Ireland. So, if this is how wrong the very first item on the facebook rant was, I can hardly imagine how gobshite the rest of it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cade said: Cadbury was sold to the US giant Kraft (now Mondelez International ) after being given the nod by the UK government against the advice of several civil service bodies who warned that Kraft would screw the workers over and off-shore production, costing the UK treasury hundreds of millions in tax revenue. Kraft made some wishy washy pledges (sound familiar?) about staying in the UK and not affecting worker's rights blah blah blah. Government pushed through the sale and Kraft immediately reneged on their pledges. 7 days after the sale, they fired hundreds of UK workers, closed the factories and moved to Poland and Romania. Where the EU comes into this story was to force Kraft to divest Cadbury factories OUT of Poland and Romania as it was contravening EU monopolies and competition laws. The Polish division was sold to a Korean company. The Romanian division was sold back to it's original family owners in Austria. Kraft have, since then, also closed a Cadbury factory in Ireland. So, if this is how wrong the very first item on the facebook rant was, I can hardly imagine how gobshite the rest of it is. Thanks for taking the time to check ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, Cade said: Cadbury was sold to the US giant Kraft (now Mondelez International ) after being given the nod by the UK government against the advice of several civil service bodies who warned that Kraft would screw the workers over and off-shore production, costing the UK treasury hundreds of millions in tax revenue. Kraft made some wishy washy pledges (sound familiar?) about staying in the UK and not affecting worker's rights blah blah blah. Government pushed through the sale and Kraft immediately reneged on their pledges. 7 days after the sale, they fired hundreds of UK workers, closed the factories and moved to Poland and Romania. Where the EU comes into this story was to force Kraft to divest Cadbury factories OUT of Poland and Romania as it was contravening EU monopolies and competition laws. The Polish division was sold to a Korean company. The Romanian division was sold back to it's original family owners in Austria. Kraft have, since then, also closed a Cadbury factory in Ireland. So, if this is how wrong the very first item on the facebook rant was, I can hardly imagine how gobshite the rest of it is. It was on Facebook. There's nothing else to add. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 On 20/01/2019 at 14:14, sairyinthat said: Probably because we've seen first hand the doc marten dungaree wearing topped with silk scarf,hairy legged harpies at Holyrood stumbling about. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Quite staggering numbers. Is that because of the return of duty-free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Victorian said: Plan B aye? Plan B, as in B for alpha (alfa). The listening is a sham. The working with colleagues is a sham. The reaching out is a sham. The disappointment at others seeing through the sham.. is a sham. The strategy is to either force her deal through with menaces, or to crash out and dump the blame on Labour. The counter strategy can only now be to explore any possible parliamentary devices to force control over to parliament. If not possible then I think we're crashing out with no transition period. It's party political grandstanding. She's trying desperately to cling on to power and more importantly stop the Tory party from imploding into a civil war. When it comes down to the wire and it's her deal or a split party, these self serving ***** will vote for her really shit deal rather than have their party split. Imagine how effective an opposition party would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: It's party political grandstanding. She's trying desperately to cling on to power and more importantly stop the Tory party from imploding into a civil war. When it comes down to the wire and it's her deal or a split party, these self serving ***** will vote for her really shit deal rather than have their party split. Imagine how effective an opposition party would be? But there is an opposition party, it's Corbyn and the.........................................................oh wait, maybe you were right first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: It's party political grandstanding. She's trying desperately to cling on to power and more importantly stop the Tory party from imploding into a civil war. When it comes down to the wire and it's her deal or a split party, these self serving ***** will vote for her really shit deal rather than have their party split. Imagine how effective an opposition party would be? She’s doing more than that. She is forcing corbyn to break cover and support a second referendum which means millions of leave voting labour supporters will now be up for grabs. As another poster above said if other parties force through amendments that lead to a second referendum or worse (in Brexiteers eyes) we end up remaining the blame will sit with them which is a lot of votes lost in next GE. it also is helping her that the EU genuinely don’t seem to want to budge. It makes her claim this is the best deal we can get plausible. i won’t deny this is a cluster**** but actually I think the way she has played it politically could work very much in her favour longer term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Absolutely. This is all about Tory Party unity and future electoral protectionism. National interest. Good yin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 35 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said: She’s doing more than that. She is forcing corbyn to break cover and support a second referendum which means millions of leave voting labour supporters will now be up for grabs. According to this, 70% of Labour Constituencies voted to leave the EU. https://labourheartlands.com/labour-constituencies-voted-to-leave-the-eu/ That's one hell of a lot of votes which Labour could potentially lose, most would probably not vote for the Tories, they just wouldn't vote at all, either way if that happened, it's still Labour who lose those votes either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, Victorian said: Absolutely. This is all about Tory Party unity and future electoral protectionism. National interest. Good yin. Whilst I agree, I cannot think of a single party leader who is in this for "the national interest" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Whilst I agree, I cannot think of a single party leader who is in this for "the national interest" Agreed, there is not one party who is not playing politics with this to try and secure their long game political aims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Ulysses said: Given that Croatia, Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta and Slovenia seem to have already departed from the European Union, why would they worry about losing one more? Right, I get why people want brexit. What I don't get is the destruction of the whole of the EU. That's beyond brexit. Edited January 22, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 15 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said: And why exactly would that be? Why shouldn't it be? If Scotland acted like GB and walked away from its debts, I'd expect everyone to tell us to go and take a feck to ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Why shouldn't it be? If Scotland acted like GB and walked away from its debts, I'd expect everyone to tell us to go and take a feck to ourselves. The thing is.... and I say this as a Europhile- UK is not walking away from debts. It is walking away from future liabilities and spending commitments from an organisation that routinely fails to have its accounts signed off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairyinthat Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 The Majority said leave that's how democracy works,defy the voters and they will most likely take to the streets,not a good advert troops battling protesters shown worldwide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 37 minutes ago, sairyinthat said: The Majority said leave that's how democracy works,defy the voters and they will most likely take to the streets,not a good advert troops battling protesters shown worldwide. UK civil war lol Grow up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 15 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: It was on Facebook. There's nothing else to add. ? Recent one I saw was no more benefits for foreigners until the 47000 homeless ex armed forces are no longer homeless. While the figure is still disgracefully high, the British Legion credits it at around 8k. Some of the same folk who posted, no doubt previously posted that if you are homeless, depressed, mental issues, addictions need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and get a grip. Armed forces or not. ##### Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 EU explicitly says: "No Deal means a hard border in Ireland and UK will be in breach of the Good Friday Agreement" Black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Cade said: UK civil war lol Grow up Its Rangers all over again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Who would build the "hard border" in Ireland, who would do the work and who would pay the bill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 55 minutes ago, sairyinthat said: The Majority said leave that's how democracy works,defy the voters and they will most likely take to the streets,not a good advert troops battling protesters shown worldwide. But if another referendum and a MAJORITY is for remain, how exactly is that defying the electorate? Surely that's as clear an example of democracy in action as there can be? Skewed logic aside, any PM that tries to blackmail MPs to vote because they are scared of civil disturbance is in the wrong job. Is the PM really saying that we have to appease thugs? Worked in 1938 right enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 If there was a second referendum and remain won but with a lesser turn out, say 5 million less, would that be a convincing mandate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 22 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: If there was a second referendum and remain won but with a lesser turn out, say 5 million less, would that be a convincing mandate? If a referendum is held, and people don't vote , then that's their look out, I suppose. If there was a second referendum, and remain won, but Scotland , Wales and N Ireland all voted to remain, would that make it any less valid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 18 hours ago, Thunderstruck said: Net contributions but still significant. I take it a 3 year period was used to make the figures look bigger. Best 3-4bn quid UK spends each year for someone, anyone to challenge the goings on in Westminster. As a ps, UK voted against an EU bill saying that if you want to bottle and sell spring water, it did indeed have to be spring water and labeled and sourced. Westminster would rather some posh Del Boy type pal of a Tory MP bottling Peckham water out the tap, start up costs via a significant tax break. The Tory MP also paid £10ks by Del Boy to raise in parliament, undisclosed of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 38 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said: Who would build the "hard border" in Ireland, who would do the work and who would pay the bill? I shouldn't imagine there will be any problem getting the foundation trenches dug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Boris said: If a referendum is held, and people don't vote , then that's their look out, I suppose. If there was a second referendum, and remain won, but Scotland , Wales and N Ireland all voted to remain, would that make it any less valid? I don't know, wondering what others thought. In my opinion it would be even more divisive than the last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: I take it a 3 year period was used to make the figures look bigger. Best 3-4bn quid UK spends each year for someone, anyone to challenge the goings on in Westminster. As a ps, UK voted against an EU bill saying that if you want to bottle and sell spring water, it did indeed have to be spring water and labeled and sourced. Westminster would rather some posh Del Boy type pal of a Tory MP bottling Peckham water out the tap, start up costs via a significant tax break. The Tory MP also paid £10ks by Del Boy to raise in parliament, undisclosed of course. It serves to confirm that the U.K. is second largest contributor to EU and the U.K. leaving will leave a sizeable gap. The rest if your post post seems like a rant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said: It serves to confirm that the U.K. is second largest contributor to EU and the U.K. leaving will leave a sizeable gap. The rest if your post post seems like a rant. The UK contribution us always known, in the fullness of gime we will find out who Westminster looks after first, and shafts most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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