Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed. But remainers on this thread have argued that the fact only 37% or so voted to leave is significant in an attempt to reverse the leave vote, suggesting that those who did not vote are deemed to favour remain. 

I assume the same test would apply if a second referendum was won by remain and the abstainers would the count as effectively leavers.

We could be at this forever.

 

 

What????? Less than 40% of the population voted leave in the EUref. That's null and void then.  Sorted.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 hours ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Dyson moving to Singapore announced today as well... 

 

I wonder how many of these HQs Edinburgh could've possibly hoovered up had we voted the other way in 2014. 

 

None would be my guess. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

5 hours ago, JackLadd said:

I wonder if May okayed an ayeref2 Nippy would direct her Westminster feebles to vote to avoid a hard brexit? Need some kind of carrot anyway.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

What????? Less than 40% of the population voted leave in the EUref. That's null and void then.  Sorted.

 

 

And even less a percentage voted to remain (something like 35%) guess that's why remain lost, they got less a votes/percentage than leave.

 

Seen a chart some time ago which showed that over 10 million people who could have voted didn't, then add in the millions who are not on the electoral register, for one reason or another and that's a fair percentage of the population don't/can't vote.

[Harry Potter]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

And even less a percentage voted to remain (something like 35%) guess that's why remain lost, they got less a votes/percentage than leave.

 

Seen a chart some time ago which showed that over 10 million people who could have voted didn't, then add in the millions who are not on the electoral register, for one reason or another and that's a fair percentage of the population don't/can't vote.

Probably find the missing millions who did not vote would probably be in the dont know bracket.

[Justin Z]

10 hours ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Arguably more ethical than spoiling a ballot as well. 

 

Funny, I recently learned the French view is, you go in and then vote an abstention because you have a responsibility to your democratic duty. To fail to do that would be to be derelict in that duty.

[AlphonseCapone]

7 hours ago, JackLadd said:

I wonder if May okayed an ayeref2 Nippy would direct her Westminster feebles to vote to avoid a hard brexit? Need some kind of carrot anyway.

 

I wonder if you'll ever post something that makes sense. 

[Toggie88]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I wonder if you'll ever post something that makes sense. 

 

Think I've deciphered it.

 

He's pondering the prospect of the Tories offering an independence referendum in exchange for the SNP voting for May's deal. 

 

I don't think the Tories would offer that or that the SNP would accept. In addition, it would totally blow up the Tories relationship with the DUP. 

 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

15 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Think I've deciphered it.

 

He's pondering the prospect of the Tories offering an independence referendum in exchange for the SNP voting for May's deal. 

 

I don't think the Tories would offer that or that the SNP would accept. In addition, it would totally blow up the Tories relationship with the DUP. 

 

 

 

See, when all the insults and clichéd terms are dropped things make much more sense. 

 

I completely agree with you, it's a non-starter for many reasons. 

[Ulysses]

 

 

22 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Think I've deciphered it.

 

 

 

I thought it meant that Scotland could be cold, but that eating more vegetables might help.

Shows how little I know. 

 

[jake]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

 

 

I thought it meant that Scotland could be cold, but that eating more vegetables might help.

Shows how little I know. 

 

When your quoting Scotland and vegetables it does show how little you know.

[XB52]

9 hours ago, JackLadd said:

I wonder if May okayed an ayeref2 Nippy would direct her Westminster feebles to vote to avoid a hard brexit? Need some kind of carrot anyway.

Grow up

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

As far as I can see, there's only one way to solve this:

 

1) Ditch the idea of no-deal Brexit

2) Ditch the idea of a second referendum

3) Every MP accept that there has to be a compromise which serves up some sort of half-decent Brexit and find it.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

Probably find the missing millions who did not vote would probably be in the dont know bracket.

 

I think there will be a myriad of reasons why people don't bother to vote, don't knows will be amongst them.

 

16 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

As far as I can see, there's only one way to solve this:

 

1) Ditch the idea of no-deal Brexit

2) Ditch the idea of a second referendum

3) Every MP accept that there has to be a compromise which serves up some sort of half-decent Brexit and find it.

 

I'd settle for every MP to just accept the result of the referendum and work constructively towards implementing that result.

[Seymour M Hersh]

19 hours ago, Cade said:

James Dyson, arch Brexiteer, is relocating Dyson head office, tax base and main factory to Singapore.

 

 

Do you even have a clue about the reasons behind this decision?  I doubt it very much but thought I'd ask. 

[Cade]

The reasons are that Singapore is going to be more competitive than the UK, so he's moving.

 

Simple, really.

[Francis Albert]

14 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Ironic choice of the word Hoover when talking about Dyson!

 

The Dyson move isn’t a biggie. 2 Senior Staff are moving there. It’s a brass plates job. The whole Head Office and U.K. Manufacturing Operation is remaining in Malmsbury, Wiltshire. Singapore has a good trade deal with China and that’s why he’s off there. 20 years ago he wanted the U.K. to join the Euro and was very vocal about it! He’s a businessman and supports whatever actions he thinks are best for his business.

 

The Cypriot flag thing’s a load of bollocks. Loads of vessels on the high seas register under a flag of convenience - usually Liberia.

 

In the run up to the 2014 Indyref, IIRC Scottish Banks threatened to move to London but that too would have been a brass plates job in order to retain the protection of the Bank of England. Scottish based staff would probably have been fine.

 

I was a remainer btw but I’m trying to be even handed.

Agreed none of this is a biggie. Doesn't stop the Guardian splashing it over the front page, including a reference to P&O's founding as the Peninsula and Oriental Company in 1837. Nothing in the article would indicate that P&O was sold about 15 years ago to DPWorld an offshoot ofthe Dubai Ports Authority.

Indeed since we joined the EU much of what little  has survived of British manufacturing and other industry other than service industry  has been sold off to foreign companes - British Steel. Rolls Royce and Bentley and Mini and Jaguar Landrover. With manufacturing gradually being transferred to cheaper locations outside the UK. Our energy supply companies, our airports, our train companies etc etc. I am not suggesting anything like full cause and effect from EU membership (though there is some of that) or even that it is necessarily a bad thing but remainers citing a few nameplate changes and the odd  man and his dog being relocated as a part of the brexit catastrophe, disaster, national suicide and self harm takes the  pretty large biscuit

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

The reasons are that Singapore is going to be more competitive than the UK, so he's moving.

 

Simple, really.

But why then is he relocating outside the EU? 

[Victorian]

That omnicunt Liam Fox is becoming more vocal and more desperate.    Today he says that a Brexit delay is worse than no deal.     According to him,  a delay means Brexit will be reversed.    It does not mean that at all,   but ****ers like him are so terrified of a reversal that they are desperate to get over the line,  deal or crash out.      He even says that no deal will be a bad thing and that the best way to avoid it is to vote for a deal.     But he wont consider a delay to facilitate a better deal.   

 

There is no logic in this whatsoever.     It only betrays the true motives of people like him.     Out at all costs and if it means a more damaging exit than msy otherwise have been possible,     so ****ing what?      Out... phwew... we'll blame everyone else if the economy tanks.

 

 

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, jake said:

When your quoting Scotland and vegetables it does show how little you know.

 

 

[jake]

54 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Do you even have a clue about the reasons behind this decision?  I doubt it very much but thought I'd ask. 

I have to laugh when remainers talk about truth.

 

[jake]

Just now, Ulysses said:

 

 

Remember I'm a leave voter.

 

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

As far as I can see, there's only one way to solve this:

 

1) Ditch the idea of no-deal Brexit

2) Ditch the idea of a second referendum

3) Every MP accept that there has to be a compromise which serves up some sort of half-decent Brexit and find it.

only problem with this is the deal is already agreed with the EU. As far as they are concerned there are only 2 options. This deal or no Brexit.  The only way I can see any alternatives to these 2 options if is a GE is called, after delaying article 50. OF course I suspect the Tories will get in with a bigger majority (so would stop the loonies in the DUP having a say which would be good), so they may well then get to rearrange the deal. All IMO of course as nobody has a clue 

[Cade]

Tories already called one General Election in order to increase their majority.

It backfired in spectacular fashion.

They're bricking it about calling another one.

[Victorian]

12 minutes ago, Cade said:

Tories already called one General Election in order to increase their majority.

It backfired in spectacular fashion.

They're bricking it about calling another one.

 

Ken.   You couldn't make it up.

 

Election would cause uncertainty but.    Aye just like the last one.

 

Everyone must work together... after being excluded for two and a half years.    Even when they do respond,   they find out the PM is at it again.   Not listening

 

Worst ever government.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

But why then is he relocating outside the EU? 

 

But why then is he relocating outside of the EU when the UK is about to become outside of the EU?

[Cade]

4 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

But why then is he relocating outside of the EU when the UK is about to become outside of the EU?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union–Singapore_Free_Trade_Agreement

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union–Singapore_Free_Trade_Agreement

 

I know, it was a rhetorical question and I was being a touch facetious.

 

?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 hour ago, XB52 said:

only problem with this is the deal is already agreed with the EU. As far as they are concerned there are only 2 options. This deal or no Brexit.  The only way I can see any alternatives to these 2 options if is a GE is called, after delaying article 50. OF course I suspect the Tories will get in with a bigger majority (so would stop the loonies in the DUP having a say which would be good), so they may well then get to rearrange the deal. All IMO of course as nobody has a clue 

 

If they went back to the EU and said they could get a parliamentary majority with certain tweaks, the EU aren't going to say no. 

[Francis Albert]

26 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

But why then is he relocating outside of the EU when the UK is about to become outside of the EU?

Because as the company has said the decision has nothing to do with Brexit. The Guardian did report the Company explanation, though buried it in an inside page.

 

On P&O the Guardian doesn't only fail to mention that P&O ceased to be British 15 years ago but describes the company as the "182-year-old British maritime operator". It is not. For over a decade It has merely been  a trade name used by its Dubai owners. But the clear intended message is that P&O is abandoning the UK because of Brexit.  "Opinion is free, facts are sacred"!Shameless stuff. 

 

PS I don't share your certainty that "the UK is about to become outside the EU".

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Cade]

“In advance of Britain leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019, we undertook a review of the flag status of our ships on the English Channel,” a P&O spokesman said in a statement.

“For operational and accounting reasons, we have concluded that the best course of action is to re-flag all ships to be under the Cyprus flag.”

He added the move “will result in significantly more favourable tonnage tax arrangements as the ships will be flagged in an EU member state”.

 

Explicitly stating that they are re-registering their ships inside the EU for tax purposes, because of Brexit.

 

[IMac]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

“In advance of Britain leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019, we undertook a review of the flag status of our ships on the English Channel,” a P&O spokesman said in a statement.

“For operational and accounting reasons, we have concluded that the best course of action is to re-flag all ships to be under the Cyprus flag.”

He added the move “will result in significantly more favourable tonnage tax arrangements as the ships will be flagged in an EU member state”.

 

Explicitly stating that they are re-registering their ships inside the EU for tax purposes, because of Brexit.

 

Global Britain!

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

“In advance of Britain leaving the European Union on March 29, 2019, we undertook a review of the flag status of our ships on the English Channel,” a P&O spokesman said in a statement.

“For operational and accounting reasons, we have concluded that the best course of action is to re-flag all ships to be under the Cyprus flag.”

He added the move “will result in significantly more favourable tonnage tax arrangements as the ships will be flagged in an EU member state”.

 

Explicitly stating that they are re-registering their ships inside the EU for tax purposes, because of Brexit.

 

Who said that the decision to reflag the Dubai owned P&O ferries was not because of Brexit?

Any turmoil seems to be in your own head.

[Cade]

JRM flapping his gums again today, saying that the PM should simply shut down Parliament to prevent amendments being made

 

[XB52]

37 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

If they went back to the EU and said they could get a parliamentary majority with certain tweaks, the EU aren't going to say no. 

they already said no changes to the deal, the deal that took 2 years and was agreed by EU and UK; not sure how often they have to say it for Westminster to get the message

[XB52]

31 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Because as the company has said the decision has nothing to do with Brexit. The Guardian did report the Company explanation, though buried it in an inside page.

 

On P&O the Guardian doesn't only fail to mention that P&O ceased to be British 15 years ago but describes the company as the "182-year-old British maritime operator". It is not. For over a decade It has merely been  a trade name used by its Dubai owners. But the clear intended message is that P&O is abandoning the UK because of Brexit.  "Opinion is free, facts are sacred"!Shameless stuff. 

 

PS I don't share your certainty that "the UK is about to become outside the EU".

 

no comment on the fact that EU and Singapore now have a free trade deal???  

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

10 minutes ago, XB52 said:

they already said no changes to the deal, the deal that took 2 years and was agreed by EU and UK; not sure how often they have to say it for Westminster to get the message

 

But it’s patently obvious that the EU wants to avoid no deal. I still think they’d bend to an extent if they were basically being told - this deal will get approval

[Victorian]

10 minutes ago, Cade said:

JRM flapping his gums again today, saying that the PM should simply shut down Parliament to prevent amendments being made

 

 

They're maniacs.   Some are overt (jrm and bj).    Some hide behind a facade of sanity (fox, gove, leadsom, etc).      But they're all off their heads.     Ideological crusaders and greasy pole climbers.     Detatched from reality and insulated against all consequences.      Desperate to start the memoirs.

[Mikey1874]

Whether or not it's to do with Brexit Dyson's move is certainly a symbolic message.

 

A strong message that Britain is weaker now. Weaker than China which could be the main reason due to Singapore's trading deals there. The new trading deal between EU and Singapore may not be so important but is also helpful. 

 

Dyson has also said we would prefer better rules e.g. on paying below the minimum wage. Even though he moved production to Malaysia years ago. A lot of people say Britain outside EU should be more like Singapore so it's a message supporting that too. 

 

Whatever the actual reasons. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Cade]

Brexit Secretary answering questions from a Lord's EU Committee right now.

Absolute carnage and top class evasion of anything resembling an actual answer.

[JudyJudyJudy]

17 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Agreed. But remainers on this thread have argued that the fact only 37% or so voted to leave is significant in an attempt to reverse the leave vote, suggesting that those who did not vote are deemed to favour remain. 

I assume the same test would apply if a second referendum was won by remain and the abstainers would the count as effectively leavers.

We could be at this forever.

 

 

I honsestly think that a large majority who didnt vote assumed we would remain so didnt vote if that makes sense !

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, XB52 said:

no comment on the fact that EU and Singapore now have a free trade deal???  

What from me or the Guardian?

The Guardian story doesn't mention the EU/Singapore trade deal.

I agree with Mikey1874 above that while the trade deal may have been a factor, easier access to China (and other growing markets in Asia) and lower costs are probably bigger factors.

Dyson's move  and the P&O reflagging and a pet supply company stocking pet food (so that "families can continue to feed their pets") seems to fall short of justifying a first page splash and main headline about "another blow to May as British businesses press the panic button". 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Francis Albert]

46 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I honsestly think that a large majority who didnt vote assumed we would remain so didnt vote if that makes sense !

I agree that was a factor ... maybe enough to swing the vote. I can still see the shocked faces of Huw Edwards and others announcing the result - few expected it.

On a second vote a lot of leave voters would I think abstain because they would (understandably) doubt the point of voting again after the first vote was (in their view) ignored.

One way or another a second or "peoples vote" would not really solve anything. And I sense that is one thing most MPs agree on.

[Cade]

David Davis addressing industry leaders in Davos:

"We can eliminate the need for a backstop by making it a criminal offence to sell goods to the EU unless those goods meet all EU regulations."

 

So taking back control and not having to stick to EU rules..........by sticking to EU rules?

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

But why then is he relocating outside the EU? 

 

It's the manufacturing he is relocating. The R&D is staying here. As is the R&D for his electric car. In addition he has invested heavily in hi-skilled jobs here created his own engineering university to help the UK skills shortage and poured a lot of money into University research projects.

 

 Dyson has been a global brand for some time now and only 4% of the £4.4billion annual revenue comes from the UK. He also relocated the manufacturing of the vacuum cleaners in 2003 (was that due to Brexit?) to Malaysia where labour costs are 30% cheaper. The supply chain is all out in that neck of the woods. It's a commercial decision pure and simple. He's looking after his company and himself.

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

JRM now just openly hawking the Brexit that suits him and cronies to allow them to maximise their ability tobenefit financially. 

****ing shameless. 

[Boris]

8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

JRM now just openly hawking the Brexit that suits him and cronies to allow them to maximise their ability tobenefit financially. 

****ing shameless. 

 

But that's the will of the people!

[Toggie88]

6 hours ago, Victorian said:

That omnicunt Liam Fox is becoming more vocal and more desperate.    Today he says that a Brexit delay is worse than no deal.     According to him,  a delay means Brexit will be reversed.    It does not mean that at all,   but ****ers like him are so terrified of a reversal that they are desperate to get over the line,  deal or crash out.      He even says that no deal will be a bad thing and that the best way to avoid it is to vote for a deal.     But he wont consider a delay to facilitate a better deal.   

 

There is no logic in this whatsoever.     It only betrays the true motives of people like him.     Out at all costs and if it means a more damaging exit than msy otherwise have been possible,     so ****ing what?      Out... phwew... we'll blame everyone else if the economy tanks.

 

 

 

Spot on. He doesn't give a shit what it looks like, just desperately trying to get it over the line as he's terrified of common-sense prevailing. 

 

[Victorian]

Geez back oor sovereignty!!!1!

 

Shut doon parliament tae stoap trouble making MPs making laws we don't want wot might prevent the return of sovereignty.      I've relocated my business interests into the EU,  therefore under EU legislation?     So what?     We must have our own sovereignty.

 

I must be allowed to make all of the laws that I will be highly unlikely to abide by.

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's the manufacturing he is relocating. The R&D is staying here. As is the R&D for his electric car. In addition he has invested heavily in hi-skilled jobs here created his own engineering university to help the UK skills shortage and poured a lot of money into University research projects.

 

 Dyson has been a global brand for some time now and only 4% of the £4.4billion annual revenue comes from the UK. He also relocated the manufacturing of the vacuum cleaners in 2003 (was that due to Brexit?) to Malaysia where labour costs are 30% cheaper. The supply chain is all out in that neck of the woods. It's a commercial decision pure and simple. He's looking after his company and himself.

 

 

Not "pressing the panic button"?