Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Jambo100 said:

I would go for second referendum.The problem is so many idiots will vote. I want my country back we will hear.Everyone should be forced to watch that channel 4 Brexit program.Europe like it or not is where the jobs lie.We have record jobs lowest unemployment so what is the problem.The tories and Duncan Smith universal credit.A system that does not work,get paid on a Friday and it is Friday number 5 in the month no tax credit..

Is there not a contradiction there?

If you mean being in the EU is good for jobs, there are a lot of parts of Europe where that isn't true.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Francis Albert

[ri Alban]

41 minutes ago, luckydug said:

The whole 'debate' was was a  disgrace. There must have been a 75% turnout on the Brexiteer side. 

Fiona Bruce also let one of the Brexiteers in the audience launch into a highly insulting and irrelevant attack on Diane Abbott. 

I know she is not everyone's cup of tea but that guy should have been told to keep to the subject.

Instead FB invited DA to respond . Just as well she didn't as there could have been a punch up in the audience. 

It was like mob rule last night .

 

This week with the Wigged one, really should be removed from the TV.

[ri Alban]

35 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Is there not a contradiction there?

If you mean being in the EU is good for jobs, there are a lot of parts of Europe where that isn't true.

Let's hope if or when people lose their jobs, that you and your fellow brexit lovers are first.

[JAYEL]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

The whole 'debate' was was a  disgrace. There must have been a 75% turnout on the Brexiteer side. 

Fiona Bruce also let one of the Brexiteers in the audience launch into a highly insulting and irrelevant attack on Diane Abbott. 

I know she is not everyone's cup of tea but that guy should have been told to keep to the subject.

Instead FB invited DA to respond . Just as well she didn't as there could have been a punch up in the audience. 

It was like mob rule last night .

 

Probably all labour voters as well

[luckydug]

36 minutes ago, JAYEL said:

Probably all labour voters as well

Maybe but what is the point of having a debate if the balance is all one sided.

I have no idea what party the Brexiteers favoured as Brexit was the only subject discussed until the last couple of minutes.

 

[Jambo100]

You are correct a lot of the E U has high unemployment.Due to strong unions ectThe U K has over 30m jobs due to the fact you can get agency Labour and easy to sack workers.Poland are getting a lot of jobs from the U K.I have to support the E U and hope the U K suffers from Brexit.The T V advert for the Africans to send money to help the U K starving.Moggs demanding your house because you are behind on your mortgage as your £50,000 a year job has gone.N H S collapsed as it has no money due to the high unemployment.The U K under sanctions due to breaking the Belfast agreement.

[Victorian]

Brexiteer Labour voters are either ignorant of Labour's system of policy making or they are willfully obtuse.     There is a fundamental disconnect between these voters and Labour Party members,    or to be more precise,    members who understand that policy is conference derived.

 

Labour has not been effective enough in explaining these considerations.     The media is largely quite content to perpetuate the confusion.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Victorian

[JAYEL]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Brexiteer Labour voters are either ignorant of Labour's system of policy making or they are willfully obtuse.     There is a fundamental disconnect between these voters and Labour Party members,    or to be more precise,    members who understand that policy is conference derived.

 

Labour has not been effective enough in explaining these considerations.     The media is largely quite content to perpetuate the confusion.

Exactly

 

I am surprised Labour are calling for a General Election , their supporters will desert them especially in the north

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, JAYEL said:

Exactly

 

I am surprised Labour are calling for a General Election , their supporters will desert them especially in the north

 

Some of them will probably up voting for another candidate who may well have been a remainer,  etc.     Labour may well lose votes throughout the country,    but many of them will be cast to other parties quite errantly in this regard.     Lots will be cast to Tory shitehawks who will continue to take the utter piss out of the country.

 

Labour's domestic programme of reform and redistribution of prosperity could well be ignored in favour of a demented,  post-Brexit vendetta of ignorance.

[Boris]

11 minutes ago, JAYEL said:

Exactly

 

I am surprised Labour are calling for a General Election , their supporters will desert them especially in the north

 

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Some of them will probably up voting for another candidate who may well have been a remainer,  etc.     Labour may well lose votes throughout the country,    but many of them will be cast to other parties quite errantly in this regard.     Lots will be cast to Tory shitehawks who will continue to take the utter piss out of the country.

 

Labour's domestic programme of reform and redistribution of prosperity could well be ignored in favour of a demented,  post-Brexit vendetta of ignorance.

 

I wonder how many of the 13 Tories up here would keep their seats?  As well as the 7 Labour MPs?

 

I think the SNP could win some of those back.

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

 

I wonder how many of the 13 Tories up here would keep their seats?  As well as the 7 Labour MPs?

 

I think the SNP could win some of those back.

 

There's no forecasting what will happen in Scotland.     A total lottery.      Could not even begin to guess.

[Jambo100]

Scotland independence vote 2014.If we had voted leave we would be bankrupt by now.It was based on lies $110 for oil.Why no warnings for Brexit.

[Jambo100]

D U P small party in N I.The people voted remain and they control the commons with Brexit.Scottish scum tories vote Brexit and Scotland voted remain

[Victorian]

May.     Not in the government's power to rule out no deal Brexit.      

 

Well that simply isn't true.      It came from a liar so probably another lie.

 

Fox.     "Some devious,  deceitful rhetoric about delivering on the referendum".      Ignore.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Let's hope if or when people lose their jobs, that you and your fellow brexit lovers are first.

Since I am neither a brexit lover nor have a job your hopes are misplaced.

If and when Scotland votes for independence I hope you don't suffer from the economic consequences which you know will be predicted to be at least as bad if not worse than those predicted for Brexit. And by much the same experts too. 

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, Jambo100 said:

Scotland independence vote 2014.If we had voted leave we would be bankrupt by now.It was based on lies $110 for oil.Why no warnings for Brexit.

 

A country cannot go bankrupt if it controls its own money supply.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Jambo100 said:

Scotland independence vote 2014.If we had voted leave we would be bankrupt by now.It was based on lies $110 for oil.Why no warnings for Brexit.

[Bindy Badgy]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

 

I wonder how many of the 13 Tories up here would keep their seats?  As well as the 7 Labour MPs?

 

I think the SNP could win some of those back.

 

Even with all of the recent drama surrounding Salmond and Sturgeon? I'm not really clued up on the impact it has had but it can't be positive.

[gashauskis9]

4 hours ago, luckydug said:

The whole 'debate' was was a  disgrace. There must have been a 75% turnout on the Brexiteer side. 

Fiona Bruce also let one of the Brexiteers in the audience launch into a highly insulting and irrelevant attack on Diane Abbott. 

I know she is not everyone's cup of tea but that guy should have been told to keep to the subject.

Instead FB invited DA to respond . Just as well she didn't as there could have been a punch up in the audience. 

It was like mob rule last night .

 

My thoughts exactly.  Just to make my point clear, I have a lot of respect for Abbott and the great work she’s done over several decades, but she shouldn’t be front and centre in this environment.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Gashauskis9

[Mikey1874]

5 hours ago, luckydug said:

The whole 'debate' was was a  disgrace. There must have been a 75% turnout on the Brexiteer side. 

Fiona Bruce also let one of the Brexiteers in the audience launch into a highly insulting and irrelevant attack on Diane Abbott. 

I know she is not everyone's cup of tea but that guy should have been told to keep to the subject.

Instead FB invited DA to respond . Just as well she didn't as there could have been a punch up in the audience. 

It was like mob rule last night .

 

 

Some audience members last night have said a BBC producer then Fiona Bruce did a warm up with the audience that included being abusive towards Diane Abbott,  making fun of her and saying the sort of things people say about her like she is an idiot.

 

Might help explain how that happened. 

 

I'm no fan of Diane Abbott but but she gets a shed load of abuse. 

[JackLadd]

Abbott sums up why Labour should be unelectable.

[Boris]

9 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

Abbott sums up why Labour should be unelectable.

Fox, Hunt,. May, Gove, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Davies et al on the other hand? Not to mention that Loon fae Aberdeen! 

[Costanza]

The government and no deal acolytes like Jacob Rees Mogg and Bernard Jenkin should be pulled to task over stuff like this. 

But hey, it's a negotiating strategy. 

Utter madness what we are doing to ourselves. 

 

 

 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Costanza said:

The government and no deal acolytes like Jacob Rees Mogg and Bernard Jenkin should be pulled to task over stuff like this. 

But hey, it's a negotiating strategy. 

Utter madness what we are doing to ourselves. 

 

 

 

 

We are told that "no deal cannot be removed as it would weaken the negotiating position".      This is being parroted out despite the negotiations being over.     We're being told there is no better deal to be had from negotiating.     The government have said so,    repeatedly.

 

The negotiations are over... but we can't weaken our negotiating position.       Vote for my deal... oh you voted it down... I'll go back to the EU to negotiate more out of them.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

52 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

My thoughts exactly.  Just to make my point clear, I have a lot of respect for Abbott and the great work she’s done over several decades, but she shouldn’t be front and centre in this environment.

 

Unfortunately being front and centre comes with the job, if she's unable to deal with the media, then maybe she needs to reconsider whether she wants such a high profile job.

[JackLadd]

18 minutes ago, Boris said:

Fox, Hunt,. May, Gove, Johnson, Rees Mogg, Davies et al on the other hand? Not to mention that Loon fae Aberdeen! 

 

These are all people of relative substance compared to Abbott. 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

These are all people of relative substance compared to Abbott. 

 

Most of them are certainly very professional,    with excellent presentation and delivery.    Sorted.

 

Oh wait... they all have rancid political ideology,    are rank self serving,   elitist,   lying reptiles.

 

 

[gashauskis9]

11 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Unfortunately being front and centre comes with the job, if she's unable to deal with the media, then maybe she needs to reconsider whether she wants such a high profile job.

Hard to disagree with that.

[Victorian]

Boris Johnson.    "I haven't said anything about Turkey".

 

[jake]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Let's hope if or when people lose their jobs, that you and your fellow brexit lovers are first.

Worked through every   recession .

Dinnae get your nasty wee hopes up.

[Seymour M Hersh]

10 hours ago, Victorian said:

Government suggesting Bercow could be denied traditional peerage after standing down as speaker.      Trying to leverage the speaker via typical Tory menaces.     Utterly shameless.    

 

Is how you'd be better served describing that napoleon complex little turd Bercow.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 hours ago, JAYEL said:

Probably all labour voters as well

Yeah the more I watch this the more I dont want to travel to England again.  A raving bunch of loonies on it last night 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

We are told that "no deal cannot be removed as it would weaken the negotiating position".      This is being parroted out despite the negotiations being over.     We're being told there is no better deal to be had from negotiating.     The government have said so,    repeatedly.

 

The negotiations are over... but we can't weaken our negotiating position.       Vote for my deal... oh you voted it down... I'll go back to the EU to negotiate more out of them.

Add to that Johnson resurfacing to trot out the same bollocks as last we saw him. 

The whole lot of them should be called out. Every interview. Every time they speak. Called out on the blatant lies and the utter bullshit. Until that happens nothing will change. 

[JackLadd]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

Most of them are certainly very professional,    with excellent presentation and delivery.    Sorted.

 

Oh wait... they all have rancid political ideology,    are rank self serving,   elitist,   lying reptiles.

 

 

 

Well you are entitled to your opinion. I know they all run rings around Abbott and most of the excuse of a front bench Corbyn presides over. 

[Victorian]

20 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Is how you'd be better served describing that napoleon complex little turd Bercow.

 

Bercow is no angel but the right wing,  desperate for hard Brexit,  Tory government narrative of Bercow favouring the other side is what it always is.     Complete and utter deception,   dishonesty and contempt.

 

Leveraging him by threatening to withhold his peerage is just the latest nasty,  slimy,  devious instance in a long and sorry history.

 

You swallow it if you want to.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Victorian

[Costanza]

16 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Add to that Johnson resurfacing to trot out the same bollocks as last we saw him. 

The whole lot of them should be called out. Every interview. Every time they speak. Called out on the blatant lies and the utter bullshit. Until that happens nothing will change. 

Absolutely this. As much as the politicians,  I blame the media for Brexit. 

They should have made more use of 'experts ' across all industry, science and law etc explaining the impact of the EU and not just politicians from either side lying or scaremongering.

I would actually make it a prerequisite of every political debate that there would be fact checking of statements made during the debate and not buried away in a column ot twitter days after. 

That horse has bolted mind you 

[Victorian]

16 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Add to that Johnson resurfacing to trot out the same bollocks as last we saw him. 

The whole lot of them should be called out. Every interview. Every time they speak. Called out on the blatant lies and the utter bullshit. Until that happens nothing will change. 

 

I actually think he's lost the plot.    Nobody could possibly continue to present himself and his ludicrous platform after being so publicly ridiculed.     No self awareness.    Not a well known trait of the sane.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

The only democratic answer is to have another vote. 

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

Most of them are certainly very professional,    with excellent presentation and delivery.    Sorted.

 

Oh wait... they all have rancid political ideology,    are rank self serving,   elitist,   lying reptiles.

 

 

 

Always how I judge people

 

You need to pay attention though 

[Victorian]

10 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Well you are entitled to your opinion. I know they all run rings around Abbott and most of the excuse of a front bench Corbyn presides over. 

 

If you're only concerned by the thin veneer of presentation and image then yeah,  fine,  horse on.

 

I'll stick with the policies and ideology.   Cheers.

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

The only democratic answer is to have another vote. 

 

Or let Brexit happen and as quickly as possible repair any damage from No Deal.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Or let Brexit happen and as quickly as possible repair any damage from No Deal.

Or have another vote. This was the second vote, was it not? 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Always how I judge people

 

You need to pay attention though 

 

Good for you.     I'm more interested in the policies and the underlying intentions of how parties plan to improve society.     Substance over presentation.    

[Brighton Jambo]

11 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

The only democratic answer is to have another vote. 

The least democratic this that can happen is to have another vote.  We had one there was a result if we have another one and that result is marginally reversed than there will be constitutional chaos.  Why would leavers accept the vote when remainers never have.  The campaign for a decisive referendum would begin immediately.  

 

And before anyone trotts out the ‘people didn’t know what they voted for line’ that Is condescending, patronising nonsense.

 

for clarity I voted remain and am bitterly disappointed with how this has planned out but fundamentally opposed to any second vote that includes remain as an option.  

Edited January 18, 2019 by Brighton Jambo

[JackLadd]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

If you're only concerned by the thin veneer of presentation and image then yeah,  fine,  horse on.

 

I'll stick with the policies and ideology.   Cheers.

 

I'm not an ideologue so I'll stick with what's best for the country and who sounds semi plausible, I.e not Abbott or her third rate ilk.      Cheers.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, Brighton Jambo said:

The least democratic this that can happen is to have another vote.  We had one there was a result if we have another one and that result is marginally reversed than there will be constitutional chaos.  Why would leavers accept the vote when remainers never have.  The campaign for a decisive referendum would begin immediately.  

 

And before anyone trotts out the ‘people didn’t know what they voted for line’ that Is condescending, patronising nonsense.

 

for clarity I voted remain and am bitterly disappointed with how this has planned out but fundamentally opposed to any second vote that includes remain as an option.  

We've had two votes. 

[Francis Albert]

11 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

The only democratic answer is to have another vote. 

With what question? Without saying what the question is "another vote" or "peoples vote" doesn't mean anything. Other than "anything to stop Leave"

[Victorian]

Just now, JackLadd said:

 

I'm not an ideologue so I'll stick with what's best for the country and who sounds semi plausible, I.e not Abbott or her third rate ilk.      Cheers.

 

Ok.  You'll stick with what sounds plausible regarding what's best for the country,    from a bunch of people who have screwed the living shit out of the worst off in society and have an extensive catalogue of self interest,   dishonesty and in-house political philosophical obsession.

 

As long as it sounds good but.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

With what question? Without saying what the question is "another vote" or "peoples vote" doesn't mean anything. Other than "anything to stop Leave"

Or we just stop at leave? Why ignore the first vote? 

[Mikey1874]

11 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

I'm not an ideologue so I'll stick with what's best for the country and who sounds semi plausible, I.e not Abbott or her third rate ilk.      Cheers.

 

Since you're a fan here's some background to what Michael Gove is about

 

https://anewnatureblog.wordpress.com/2017/06/19/michael-gove-and-the-american-neoconservatives/amp/?__twitter_impression=true