Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Don Dan]

7 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

In some ways I wish he was

 

He'd walk all over May and the Brexiteers in Parliament

 

No he wouldn’t he’d drive over them in a tank whilst asking where the weapons of mass destruction are.

[Jambo100]

Blair knew where Labour stood.He got power.J C does not want power as he knows he will be finished.Talk the Talk and never Walk the Walk.You could say the House of Commons is perfectly balanced.The referendum for Brexit got 34% of 50 million votes including the E U workers who could not vote but can in a general election.The House of Commons is 2/3  remain.May wants to hold on to a corrupt referendum.That is why it does not work.

[Dawnrazor]

22 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

In some ways I wish he was

 

He'd walk all over May and the Brexiteers in Parliament

He'd have bombed Iran by now! 

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Jambo100 said:

Blair knew where Labour stood.He got power.J C does not want power as he knows he will be finished.Talk the Talk and never Walk the Walk. 

Exactly, he's in his perfect job, leader of the "opposition". 

[Jambo100]

Blair’s problem is Al Gore won the U S election and Bush with his brothers help got in

[Ulysses]

[Victorian]

It's total high open season for every MP airing their own version of the way ahead and their own unique insight as to how to solve the riddle.      About 6 different versions of Brexit x about 16 ways to achieve them.     96+ permutations and Maybot ignoring 95 of them while lying about listening to people.     

[Don Dan]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

It's total high open season for every MP airing their own version of the way ahead and their own unique insight as to how to solve the riddle.      About 6 different versions of Brexit x about 16 ways to achieve them.     96+ permutations and Maybot ignoring 95 of them while lying about listening to people.     

 

They is no way out of this mess that will satisfy everyone. 

[Ulysses]

44 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

They is no way out of this mess that will satisfy everyone. 

 

You don't have to satisfy everyone, just as many people as possible.

[Victorian]

No.    The outcome should be what is best for the future of the country and the population.     If that displeases a significant majority then so be it.      Broken trust in democracy?     **** off,  shut up and carry on having a job and feeding your family.

[JAYEL]

53 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

They is no way out of this mess that will satisfy everyone. 

May should call a General Election then the People can get rid of the Remoaners

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&source=hp&ei=XvlAXPS1Ls7XkwWB1b1w&q=constituencies+that+voted+leave&oq=constuances+that+voted+leave&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.0i13j0i13i5i30l4.665.17758..19948...0.0..0.513.4875.4j18j3j1j1j1......0....1.......5..41j0i131j46i131j0j46j0i10j0i10i70i249j46i10i275j46i10j46i13j0i13i30.bxcUkqD5OaQ

 

sorted

[Don Dan]

14 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

You don't have to satisfy everyone, just as many people as possible.

 

And that is proving increasingly difficult.

[Ulysses]

14 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

You don't have to satisfy everyone, just as many people as possible.

 

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

No.    The outcome should be what is best for the future of the country and the population.     If that displeases a significant majority then so be it.      Broken trust in democracy?     **** off,  shut up and carry on having a job and feeding your family.

 

 

Satisfying as many people as possible and doing what is best for the future of the country and the population are by no means mutually exclusive.

[jake]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

No.    The outcome should be what is best for the future of the country and the population.     If that displeases a significant majority then so be it.      Broken trust in democracy?     **** off,  shut up and carry on having a job and feeding your family.

So you want dictatorship instead?

 

Sorry should I shut up or fek off because I see a different way for the future?

 

Really the rabid squealing that's become the tone is amusing.

 

[Ulysses]

Just now, Dannie Boy said:

 

And that is proving increasingly difficult.

 

You can always satisfy "as many people as possible".  What is getting more difficult is that "as many people as possible" becomes a smaller number as more people cling to red lines and principles.  Neither are worth a shite in the real world.

 

 

People talk Norway plus, and no-one talks Switzerland, plus or minus.  Strange that.

 

Anyway, as the old joke goes, what's good about Switzerland?  Well, the flag is a big plus. 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, jake said:

So you want dictatorship instead?

 

Sorry should I shut up or fek off because I see a different way for the future?

 

Really the rabid squealing that's become the tone is amusing.

 

 

Really?     Try not to be silly eh?      Who mentioned dictatorship?       This matter is so profoundly important that it does require an approach on the basis of doing what is least damaging.     Parliament can still work together to arrive at a good outcome that will protect the prosperity of the country.     If it displeases a majority then it doesn't matter.      People can moan like **** but if their living standards are safeguarded then that supercedes their myopic complaints.

 

Dictatorship my arse.

[Victorian]

9 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

 

Satisfying as many people as possible and doing what is best for the future of the country and the population are by no means mutually exclusive.

 

Agreed.    But 'best outcome' must trump popularity.    Must,  always and with a cherry on top.    Parliament must eventually arrive at this conclusion.

[Victorian]

Voters who are of the firm opinion that there cannot be another referendum because the voters have expressed their democratic will should consider this question.       If the public have spoken and delivered their will to have Brexit and that there should be no further question asked of them,     do they have a credible right to demand any particular version of Brexit,    as long as Brexit happens in some meaningful form?

 

 

[Don Dan]

29 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

You can always satisfy "as many people as possible".  What is getting more difficult is that "as many people as possible" becomes a smaller number as more people cling to red lines and principles.  Neither are worth a shite in the real world.

 

 

People talk Norway plus, and no-one talks Switzerland, plus or minus.  Strange that.

 

Anyway, as the old joke goes, what's good about Switzerland?  Well, the flag is a big plus. 

 

?

[Don Dan]

26 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Agreed.    But 'best outcome' must trump popularity.    Must,  always and with a cherry on top.    Parliament must eventually arrive at this conclusion.

 

I agree with what you say but who decides what the best outcome is? You take it to a referendum but who decides which best deal is the best deal to be put to the people. I suppose the Parliament must decide on that one but if the referendum reject the best deal put forward by Parliament do you then go and look for another best deal to put forward once again. It’s Ad infinitum and Catchh 22 all in one!

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I agree with what you say but who decides what the best outcome is? You take it to a referendum but who decides which best deal is the best deal to be put to the people. I suppose the Parliament must decide on that one but if the referendum reject the best deal put forward by Parliament do you then go and look for another best deal to put forward once again. It’s Ad infinitum and Catchh 22 all in one!

 

It's certainly a credible argument against a referendum.    Conversely a referendum may be required at some stage.       Maybe the best outcome is for parliament to gravitate down to a pragmatic deal that secures Brexit and a transition period and forms a good and secure framework for the future relationship.     Perhaps no referendum is better.      Maybe even not all that far removed from May's deal if the backstop bogeyman can be slain.

[Mikey1874]

37 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Voters who are of the firm opinion that there cannot be another referendum because the voters have expressed their democratic will should consider this question.       If the public have spoken and delivered their will to have Brexit and that there should be no further question asked of them,     do they have a credible right to demand any particular version of Brexit,    as long as Brexit happens in some meaningful form?

 

 

 

As long as Brexit happens

 

Making best of it is government's responsibility though of course all of us have a part to play. 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Justin Z]

54 minutes ago, jake said:

Really the rabid squealing that's become the tone is amusing.

 

What I find amusing is you posting laughing smileys at posters who dared show concern about what might happen in the next three months and then like 24 hours later the British military activates 3,500 reservists.

 

To mix in an Americanism, you are batting a thousand, ma pal.

[Victorian]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

Yes

 

 

 

It was a simple in/out vote.     Settled will.    Can't be revisted.     Why do people have a right to demand their own interpretation of the outcome?

 

Opinions?     Yes of course.      But as others have said,     not everyone will be happy with the end result version of Brexit.

 

No.     Those demanding their own version of Brexit would be the dictatorship.

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It was a simple in/out vote.     Settled will.    Can't be revisted.     Why do people have a right to demand their own interpretation of the outcome?

 

Opinions?     Yes of course.      But as others have said,     not everyone will be happy with the end result version of Brexit.

 

No.     Those demanding their own version of Brexit would be the dictatorship.

 

May and Corbyn both aware Brexit should happen.

 

Its simply about leaving. Politicians are mostly trying to make it the best for all. The zealots are in the minority. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

May and Corbyn both aware Brexit should happen.

 

Its simply about leaving. Politicians are mostly trying to make it the best for all. The zealots are in the minority. 

 

I'll ask again.    Why do people have a right to demand their own interpretation of the outcome?     There was no complexity in the referendum question.

[gashauskis9]

Abbott on QT making an arse out herself and contradicting Corbyn.  She’s a ****ing bombscare.

[Jambos_1874]

15 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Abbott on QT making an arse out herself and contradicting Corbyn.  She’s a ****ing bombscare.

 

She is absolutely clueless. Why do the Labour party let her anywhere near TV? I almost feel sorry for her.

[SwindonJambo]

17 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Abbott on QT making an arse out herself and contradicting Corbyn.  She’s a ****ing bombscare.

 

I was about to post similar. She truly is an incoherent rambling mess. Not competent to be Secretary of her own home let alone the Home Secretary. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by SwindonJambo

[Mysterion]

11 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Abbott on QT making an arse out herself and contradicting Corbyn.  She’s a ****ing bombscare.

 

It is astounding that Labour PR allow her near a microphone.

[Thunderstruck]

Its all going swimmingly for Juncker, he will either get the U.K. to abandon Brexit or get Britain to ‘leave’ but tied into a Canada+/CETA (a very close cousin of TTIP) arrangement - an arrangement almost impossible to leave. 

 

It is worth remembering how quickly Juncker prostrated himself in front of Trump when he threatened to impose additional tariffs on the EU. A few concessions later and Trump relented. The lesson - Juncker responds to realistic threat and taking Hard Brexit off the negotiating table is an act of lunacy. 

 

It is a little strange that we now hear little of the insidious threat posed by TTIP -

How it will open up NHS to American Health Care firms. 

How it will allow corporations to sue governments for negative impacts of legislation. 

How it was negotiated in secret with consultation with EU member states. 

 

TTIP is not dead, it is just in hiding. CETA is here now. 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

17 minutes ago, Jambos_1874 said:

 

She is absolutely clueless. Why do the Labour party let her anywhere near TV? I almost feel sorry for her.

Being Corbyn's former lover might help.

Actually I now feel sorry for her too.

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Being Corbyn's former lover might help.

Actually I now feel sorry for her too.

Very true. That is a mental image that doesn't bear thinking about. She needs to be put out of her misery and binned.

[CJGJ]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

As long as Brexit happens

 

Making best of it is government's responsibility though of course all of us have a part to play. 

 

 

Why would anyone want the worst thing to happen to he country to actually come to fruition

 

No one from the Brexit side can tell you what they actually want within the boundaries of reality not the lies they have pedalled so far

 

The vote was about leaving and not the conditions we would exit on and that is the major reason for the splits today

 

Still if it happens as long as the Brexiteers are the first to leave their jobs when companies go bust or reduce staff that will be fine by me.....I'm sure they won't complain as this is what they voted for after all.

They will put their principles before reality I'm sure being such upstanding British citizens

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

.....if the backstop bogeyman can be slain.

 

The only reason there is a backstop bogeyman is that the Withdrawal Agreement is a temporary document.  Because the agreement leaves the future trading relationship between the EU 27 and the UK up in the air, the backstop is necessary.  If we had certainty about the future trading relationship, especially as regards physical goods, writing an agreement on a "soft border" could be done with relative ease.

[Ulysses]

14 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Why would anyone want the worst thing to happen to he country to actually come to fruition

 

Brexit is not the "worst thing".  Leaving with no deal is the problem.

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Brexit is not the "worst thing".  Leaving with no deal is the problem.

 

Is that a problem more for the EU though?

[Dawnrazor]

7 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

It is astounding that Labour PR allow her near a microphone.

A method in thier madness I think, keeping her in the public eye keeps it fresh in the publics mind how compleltley incompetent the Corbyn Labour Party is and will be. 

[Costanza]

It's all going to be fine.

 

 

[gashauskis9]

Did anyone else think Fiona Bruce was a disgrace as the ‘neutral’ on QT last night?

 

 

[Victorian]

Government suggesting Bercow could be denied traditional peerage after standing down as speaker.      Trying to leverage the speaker via typical Tory menaces.     Utterly shameless people.    

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Did anyone else think Fiona Bruce was a disgrace as the ‘neutral’ on QT last night?

 

 

 

I thought she was ok considering Abbot was creating her own multiple car pile up. 

 

Anyone see this complete nut job on news night ? Absolutely barking... 

 

https://twitter.com/LiamMcKee/status/1086031283422138368

 

 

[Jambo100]

I would go for second referendum.The problem is so many idiots will vote. I want my country back we will hear.Everyone should be forced to watch that channel 4 Brexit program.Europe like it or not is where the jobs lie.We have record jobs lowest unemployment so what is the problem.The tories and Duncan Smith universal credit.A system that does not work,get paid on a Friday and it is Friday number 5 in the month no tax credit..

[Jambo100]

Fox should remember U.K. has 22 trade deals and 68 with the E U = 90 free trade deals .Moggs on L B C we can get Australia meat cheap and sell it to the poor.It is banned by the E U .

[Jambo100]

After Brexit I will join my polish friend and move to Poland and work.Problem I cannot leave the U K he can go to 30 countries and work.North Korea  East Berlin. U K.

[Victorian]

The long term ideologues like Fox and Leadsom and quite a few more have absolutely nothing of any value to add to the process going forward.     They will troop out literally any type of utter shite,   simply to drag their goal over the line.     

[Cade]

BoJo The Clown trying to portray himself as a cosmopolitan, pro-immigration globalist.

 

Same bloke who tried scaring people with claims about tens of millions of Turks swarming the nation.

 

Jog on, you mop headed, opportunist, lying bawsack

[luckydug]

4 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Did anyone else think Fiona Bruce was a disgrace as the ‘neutral’ on QT last night?

 

 

The whole 'debate' was was a  disgrace. There must have been a 75% turnout on the Brexiteer side. 

Fiona Bruce also let one of the Brexiteers in the audience launch into a highly insulting and irrelevant attack on Diane Abbott. 

I know she is not everyone's cup of tea but that guy should have been told to keep to the subject.

Instead FB invited DA to respond . Just as well she didn't as there could have been a punch up in the audience. 

It was like mob rule last night .

 

[Costanza]

This is an interesting article on where we currently are.

It's also incredibly depressing as a vacuum of responsibility and intelligence of political leadership means I can't see how it will be resolved. 

No one can really agree on what Brexit is and it doesn't help that prominent remainers like Farage and Rees Mogg have moved from a Norway type deal or a second referendum to ratify a deal being acceptable,  to practically anything less than a no deal being a betrayal of Brexit. 

There was an interesting interview with Nick Boles and Andrew Neil last night with Boles advocating a Norway EFTA deal which to me, seems like an adequate compromise and reflects the referendum result (a small margin for leave).

We are now at a stage when we actually have people wanting a no deal and I can't decide if these people are idiots or nihilists.

In short,  I think we're f*****.

 

http://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2019/01/a-dangerous-political-void.html?m=1

[Francis Albert]

45 minutes ago, Cade said:

BoJo The Clown trying to portray himself as a cosmopolitan, pro-immigration globalist.

 

Same bloke who tried scaring people with claims about tens of millions of Turks swarming the nation.

 

Jog on, you mop headed, opportunist, lying bawsack

The claim was of course nonsense, as the UK could always veto Turkish membership. Interestingly under  a soft "Norway type" Brexit where freedom of movement remained, the claim might have more validity, as the UK would have no veto on the entry of Turkey to the EU. It is however, given the reality of the likelihood of Turkey joining the EU, a pretty academic point.