Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

But it wouldn't be Holyrood reversing the decision, it woudl be the electorate.  Just like if there is a second ref on Brexit, it would be the people not Parliament deciding.

 

Also, while Brexit and Scottish independence may be similar on certain levels, they are completely different on others.

Yes. Scottish independence is a much more complex matter than Brexit. Dissolving a 300 plus- year old economic, political and social union vs dissolving a 40 year old arrangement which remains, despite ongoing mission creep, essentially a trade agreement between independent nation states.

I think the SNP have totally misread the impact of Brexit (whatever is now the ultimate outcome) on the likelihood of Scottish independence, at least in my lifetime.

(to be fair I suppose that have had other things on their minds).

Edited January 25, 2019 by Francis Albert

[jambo89]

11 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Perhaps then you can be the first person to ever explain to me how this is paradoxical or mind boggling? I simply do not get it.

 “A paradox is a statement that, despite apparently valid reasoning from true premises, leads to an apparently-self-contradictory or logically unacceptable conclusion.^[1][2] A paradox involves contradictory-yet-interrelated elements that exist simultaneously and persist over time” 

 

We heard the same rhetoric prior to the independence vote as we did the brexit vote. “Economic disaster”, “job losses” etc.   The only difference is one was voted for and one was voted against.

 

Perhaps you have forgotten the media hype about the so called disastourous fallout if Scotland voted yes. Well imo, we are seeing this disatourous fallout but for brexit. That’s where the similarities are and the paradoxical nature of yes voters but remain voters.

 

 

11 hours ago, XB52 said:

No idea what you are on about. I want Scotland to be independent but not isolated.  I want free movement and to take our place alongside the other independent European nations. 

 

 

I want Scotland to be independent too (perhaps more than you as I voted leave).

I also want free movement but (spent a lot of time working in Poland) but that doesn’t detract from the fact that the “fallout” from if we had voted yes would be similar to this current shitfest. 

 

And “independent nations”? So independent in fact that the very people we elect can not run our own railways for the benefit of the people thanks to competition rules. 

 

Wouldnt wont to hurt big business after all eh! That’s what really counts here. Not your man in the street! Big business

 

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

If you think the two unions are the same , well , mind boggling wouldn't be hard to achieve. 

 

Where did I say the 2 unions were the same likes?

 

I’ve gave my reasons for voting leave. 

 

Im sick of big business running rough sod over the people and the entire premise for the EU is to allow that to happen. 

[Boris]

24 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Yes. Scottish independence is a much more complex matter than Brexit. Dissolving a 300 plus- year old economic, political and social union vs dissolving a 40 year old arrangement which remains, despite ongoing mission creep, essentially a trade agreement between independent nation states.

I think the SNP have totally misread the impact of Brexit (whatever is now the ultimate outcome) on the likelihood of Scottish independence, at least in my lifetime.

(to be fair I suppose that have had other things on their minds).

 

I'd say in many ways it is much more straightforward than Brexit - only two parties involved, as opposed to 28 with Brexit.  It's a different type of Union, there are precedents, and of course international law/obligations overseen by the UN.  Brexit is comletely new.

 

I'd agree that the SNP have misread the impact of Brexit, however depending on the outcome (deal/no deal etc) this may change.  Uncharted territory, so to speak.

[Boris]

11 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

And “independent nations”? So independent in fact that the very people we elect can not run our own railways for the benefit of the people thanks to competition rules. 

 

 

So how do other EU member states manage it?

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

So it seems May and the government are relying on a change to the Backstop making it time limited. So surely that needs EU approval? Which isn't very likely? Doesn't seem like a Backstop then.

 

Reports she can get DUP and a lot of Tory support. But is this delusional? 

 

52 minutes ago, Cade said:

Yes it is

 

So what game is May playing if she knows EU won't change backstop?

[Mikey1874]

Summary in link of some of business preparations 

 

 

[jambo89]

17 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

So how do other EU member states manage it?

 

Dont know is my honest answer.

 

Are you suggesting there are no rules on state aid? Or that rival EU companies can’t lobby Brussels to prevent the state from out-competing them? 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Mikey1874]

Of course could be a different side to this

 

 

[ri Alban]

46 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 “A paradox is a statement that, despite apparently valid reasoning from true premises, leads to an apparently-self-contradictory or logically unacceptable conclusion.^[1][2] A paradox involves contradictory-yet-interrelated elements that exist simultaneously and persist over time” 

 

We heard the same rhetoric prior to the independence vote as we did the brexit vote. “Economic disaster”, “job losses” etc.   The only difference is one was voted for and one was voted against.

 

Perhaps you have forgotten the media hype about the so called disastourous fallout if Scotland voted yes. Well imo, we are seeing this disatourous fallout but for brexit. That’s where the similarities are and the paradoxical nature of yes voters but remain voters.

 

 

 

I want Scotland to be independent too (perhaps more than you as I voted leave).

I also want free movement but (spent a lot of time working in Poland) but that doesn’t detract from the fact that the “fallout” from if we had voted yes would be similar to this current shitfest. 

 

And “independent nations”? So independent in fact that the very people we elect can not run our own railways for the benefit of the people thanks to competition rules. 

 

Wouldnt wont to hurt big business after all eh! That’s what really counts here. Not your man in the street! Big business

 

 

Where did I say the 2 unions were the same likes?

 

I’ve gave my reasons for voting leave. 

 

Im sick of big business running rough sod over the people and the entire premise for the EU is to allow that to happen. 

Did you vote no.

[jambo89]

11 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Did you vote no.

Voted yes

[Francis Albert]

49 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I'd say in many ways it is much more straightforward than Brexit - only two parties involved, as opposed to 28 with Brexit.  It's a different type of Union, there are precedents, and of course international law/obligations overseen by the UN.  Brexit is comletely new.

 

I'd agree that the SNP have misread the impact of Brexit, however depending on the outcome (deal/no deal etc) this may change.  Uncharted territory, so to speak.

Though it is true Brexit involves 28 parties in practice factions and differences within the one have had infinitely more effect than any differences between the 27 others.

Assuming Brexit preceeds independence Scotland would then face its own negotiation with 27 parties to join the EU, and (although in the end I don't thing Scottish accession would be blocked) a number of the 27 would have reason (from Spain to France and to Belgium and beyond ) to not make the process of a separatist state's path look too easy. 

As for the UN if you think that is going to  help ease the process I'd think again. A large number of the UN members including some of the biggest have their own issues with separatism - Russia, China, India, much of the Middle East, many in Africa and South East Asia.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Francis Albert

[ri Alban]

Just now, jambo89 said:

Voted yes

Good! 

[Boris]

23 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Dont know is my honest answer.

 

Are you suggesting there are no rules on state aid? Or that rival EU companies can’t lobby Brussels to prevent the state from out-competing them? 

 

 

 

I don't know either, but, for example, the main Dutch train operator is state owned.

 

I suspect that a lot of what gets laid at the EU's door is a partial truth, and more to do with successive UK Governments not being willing to invest in public services and infrastructure.  The UK's embrace of neo-liberalism started long before the rest of Western Europe and much more aggressively.  IMO, the EU is a ocnvenient bogeyman to avoid upsetting this golden gravy train.  Concepts such as "taking back control" and sovereignty are a smokescreen.  In my opinion, of course.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Though it is true Brexit involves 28 parties in practice factions and differences within the one have had infinitely more effect than any differences between the 27 others.

Assuming Brexit preceeds independence Scotland would then face its own negotiation with 27 parties to join the EU, and (although in the end I don't thing Scottish accession would be blocked) a number of the 27 would have reason (from Spain to France and to Belgium and beyond ) to not make the process of a separatist state's path look too easy. 

 

I'm pretty sure Spain mentioned recently that they would have no problem with an independent Scotland joining the EU, should it want to.

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/11/spain-s-intervention-reminder-scottish-independence-could-work-nicely-eu

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-spain-politics-scotland/spain-would-not-oppose-future-independent-scotland-rejoining-eu-minister-idUKKCN1NP25P

 

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

As for the UN if you think that is going to  help ease the process I'd think again. A large number of the UN members including some of the biggest have their own issues with separatism - Russia, China, India, much of the Middle East, many in Africa and South East Asia.

 

Were Scotland to become independent it would be in accordance with international law and so to compare it to Chechyna, for example, or even Tibet, isn't really treating like with like.  Also, in the current geopolitical state we are in, do you really think Russia would prevent Scotland leaving the UK?  

 

 

[jambo89]

11 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

The UK's embrace of neo-liberalism started long before the rest of Western Europe and much more aggressively. 

 

No argument from me here on that. 

 

But it I hold out hope that this can be changed.

 

13 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

 IMO, the EU is a ocnvenient bogeyman to avoid upsetting this golden gravy train.  Concepts such as "taking back control" and sovereignty are a smokescreen.  In my opinion, of course.

 

 

Not sure I understand this point though. What gravy train is that? Surely if people wanted to stay on the “Gravy Train” then remain is the best option!? 

 

Whilst I agree in partially about the EU bogeyman being blamed for most things (half of which are myths), 

The inability to conduct trade deals with 3rd parties and to engage specific policies  is pretty restrictive in terms of what a country can do to boost its economy. That’s where the “taking back control” mantra comes from imo. 

[XB52]

55 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Dont know is my honest answer.

 

Are you suggesting there are no rules on state aid? Or that rival EU companies can’t lobby Brussels to prevent the state from out-competing them? 

 

 

so you don't know but you state it as a fact?? The Scottish government have already stated that it is pointless looking at returning the railways to state controlled while Network Rail work under reserved status, so we can't control the state of the tracks. They have been quite open about the fact that they have the power to do it though

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

No argument from me here on that. 

 

But it I hold out hope that this can be changed.

 

 

 

Not sure I understand this point though. What gravy train is that? Surely if people wanted to stay on the “Gravy Train” then remain is the best option!? 

 

Whilst I agree in partially about the EU bogeyman being blamed for most things (half of which are myths), 

The inability to conduct trade deals with 3rd parties and to engage specific policies  is pretty restrictive in terms of what a country can do to boost its economy. That’s where the “taking back control” mantra comes from imo. 

 

I understand that the EU is bringing forward legislation in respect of tax havens and member states need to tighten up things.

 

Within the UK, who stands to lose out once this is implemented?  The ability to do trade deals is about, in my opinion, our neo-liberals getting one last bonanza before that particular ball bursts.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/is-the-anti-tax-avoidance-directive-the-reason-the-rich-want-out-of-eu-1-5669763 

Taking back control is smokescreen, but due to years of anti-EU propaganda and downright lies, people seem to swallow it whole.

[Boris]

8 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

What gravy train is that? Surely if people wanted to stay on the “Gravy Train” then remain is the best option!? 

 

 

No disrespect to you, but the fact that to you the term "gravy train" is synonymous with the EU sort of proves my point re the propaganda. Not saying you are brainwashed, far from it, just thought it was interesting how language can be used.

 

[jambo89]

24 minutes ago, XB52 said:

so you don't know but you state it as a fact?? The Scottish government have already stated that it is pointless looking at returning the railways to state controlled while Network Rail work under reserved status, so we can't control the state of the tracks. They have been quite open about the fact that they have the power to do it though

 

Well do you know why that is? 

 

What you are saying, categorically, is that there are no rules on state aid within the EU that would prevent the government from “buying” and operating the railways and subsidising them for the benefit of the people?

 

And that it is not permissible for EU companies to lobby Brussels to prevent this?  Is that correct?! Yes or No? 

[Seymour M Hersh]

13 hours ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Fiona Bruce at it again.  Shutting down remainers on QT and giving the Brexiteers free reign.  She’s a ****ing disgrace.

 

Those remainers, they don't like it up em Mr Mainwaring! 

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, jambo89 said:

 “A paradox is a statement that, despite apparently valid reasoning from true premises, leads to an apparently-self-contradictory or logically unacceptable conclusion.^[1][2] A paradox involves contradictory-yet-interrelated elements that exist simultaneously and persist over time” 

 

We heard the same rhetoric prior to the independence vote as we did the brexit vote. “Economic disaster”, “job losses” etc.   The only difference is one was voted for and one was voted against.

 

Perhaps you have forgotten the media hype about the so called disastourous fallout if Scotland voted yes. Well imo, we are seeing this disatourous fallout but for brexit. That’s where the similarities are and the paradoxical nature of yes voters but remain voters.

 

More like I wasn't here at all, mate

 

It's not much of a paradox if you think the chat about Indy's economic impact was significantly overblown and the chat about Brexit isn't.

 

So yeah. At least you're not one of those "you want independence but you're happy to give up your sovereignty to the EUUUUUU!!!1!12!" types, which is just plain silliness.

 

Don't disagree with your big business ideas, and I'd say it's the worst thing about the EU at the moment. Turning your country over to Tories to fix that situation is the dictionary definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face, though.

[jambo89]

21 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I understand that the EU is bringing forward legislation in respect of tax havens and member states need to tighten up things.

 

Within the UK, who stands to lose out once this is implemented?  The ability to do trade deals is about, in my opinion, our neo-liberals getting one last bonanza before that particular ball bursts.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/is-the-anti-tax-avoidance-directive-the-reason-the-rich-want-out-of-eu-1-5669763 

Taking back control is smokescreen, but due to years of anti-EU propaganda and downright lies, people seem to swallow it whole.

 

Too little too late imo re the tax haven. And we shall see what effect this has but won’t hold my breath. The EU are as bad as the tories for there neoliberalism, just because we started it first, doesn’t make the EU better. 

 

I agree with you re the “taking back control”. Makes my skin crawl when I hear people use it as an argument for brexit. My point was that there are elements of it that are true i.e. competition rules.

 

19 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

No disrespect to you, but the fact that to you the term "gravy train" is synonymous with the EU sort of proves my point re the propaganda. Not saying you are brainwashed, far from it, just thought it was interesting how language can be used.

 

 

Capitalist, extremely pro business, anti-workers rights, super-state European Union confused as a “gravy train”. 

 

You can understand why.

[jambo89]

7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

More like I wasn't here at all, mate

 

Haha!! 

7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

It's not much of a paradox if you think the chat about Indy's economic impact was significantly overblown and the chat about Brexit isn't.

I think both are / were overblown 

7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

So yeah. At least you're not one of those "you want independence but you're happy to give up your sovereignty to the EUUUUUU!!!1!12!" types, which is just plain silliness.

 

Don't disagree with your big business ideas, and I'd say it's the worst thing about the EU at the moment. Turning your country over to Tories to fix that situation is the dictionary definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face, though.

 

If you wait for the “right time” to fix the situation, we will be waiting a long time. There will never be a right time to do it.

[Boris]

7 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Too little too late imo re the tax haven. And we shall see what effect this has but won’t hold my breath. The EU are as bad as the tories for there neoliberalism, just because we started it first, doesn’t make the EU better. 

 

I agree with you re the “taking back control”. Makes my skin crawl when I hear people use it as an argument for brexit. My point was that there are elements of it that are true i.e. competition rules.

 

 

Capitalist, extremely pro business, anti-workers rights, super-state European Union confused as a “gravy train”. 

 

You can understand why.

 

I'm not intending to be an EU apologist - much of it could do with reform.  I'd rather be in there trying to do that, rather than shrivelling up on the outside.

 

I agree with some of your sentiments, particularly in respect of state aid.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

And “independent nations”? So independent in fact that the very people we elect can not run our own railways for the benefit of the people thanks to competition rules. 

 

 

So Independent that it's proving to be a complete nightmare for the UK to untangle herself from the EU web.

It seems to me that over the last 40 years that there is now barely anything which the EU doesn't have some sort of say on or rule for.

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Boris said:

 

I'm not intending to be an EU apologist - much of it could do with reform.  I'd rather be in there trying to do that, rather than shrivelling up on the outside.

 

I agree with some of your sentiments, particularly in respect of state aid.

 

People have been saying for many years that the EU needs to reform, but so far the EU hasn't showed much appetite for self-reform.

[Boris]

15 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

People have been saying for many years that the EU needs to reform, but so far the EU hasn't showed much appetite for self-reform.

That's what the UK should have been doing, but it preferred to isolate itself. Imo. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

7 minutes ago, Boris said:

That's what the UK should have been doing, but it preferred to isolate itself. Imo. 

 

Like I said the EU hasn't shown much if any appetite to reform, and as such the UK could try like crazy to get reforms only for other member states to veto them, that's the problem when you have 27/28 competing voices where reforms would suit some but not others, so ultimately you get plenty of talk about reforms but in practise little to nothing actually ever gets done.

[Boris]

1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Like I said the EU hasn't shown much if any appetite to reform, and as such the UK could try like crazy to get reforms only for other member states to veto them, that's the problem when you have 27/28 competing voices where reforms would suit some but not others, so ultimately you get plenty of talk about reforms but in practise little to nothing actually ever gets done.

By the same token the UK must have agreed to virtually everything then? Or forgotten it had a veto? 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

11 minutes ago, Boris said:

By the same token the UK must have agreed to virtually everything then? Or forgotten it had a veto? 

 

I'd bet there are many things which the UK could have vetoed but didn't, politics & politicians eh!

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I am genuinely worried about the consequences of reversing Brexit.  

 

Heres a scenario, Scotland has voted for independence.  The yes votes celebrate like crazy and then a couple of years later when it becomes evident it’s all a bit messy and difficulties  Holyrood decides to reverse the decision.  

 

Imagine the consequences.  Do you think people would be satisfied by having it explained to them it’s for the good of Scotland we are reversing it.  Even talk of another vote would drive them crazy with rage.  There would be chaos.  Now imagine that problem Multiplied by 7/8 across the UK and that’s what will happen if politicians reverse it.  

 

 

 

I predict a few weeks of " turmoil"...the Stephen Yaxley Lennon types flexing their puny muscles for a few weeks then sqausshed by the Polis  ( they cant wait to get into that mob ). 

[Ulysses]

12 minutes ago, Boris said:

By the same token the UK must have agreed to virtually everything then? Or forgotten it had a veto? 

 

Leave supporters complain about the EU "needing reform" as if it's somehow relevant. 

 

First of all, the EU that the Leave campaign wishes to leave doesn't actually exist - it's a figment of their imaginations along with such fictions as State aid restrictions and straight bananas.

 

Secondly, the UK never tried to reform the EU - it just negotiated cheap deals and opt-outs for itself.

 

The only purpose of the "reform" line is to provide the appearance of rationality and logic to the choice of voting Leave.

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

That’s an excellent point.

Great posting. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

Leave supporters complain about the EU "needing reform" as if it's somehow relevant. 

 

First of all, the EU that the Leave campaign wishes to leave doesn't actually exist - it's a figment of their imaginations along with such fictions as State aid restrictions and straight bananas.

 

Secondly, the UK never tried to reform the EU - it just negotiated cheap deals and opt-outs for itself.

 

The only purpose of the "reform" line is to provide the appearance of rationality and logic to the choice of voting Leave.

 

What about remainers who say that the EU is "needing reform", as is the case here with the poster saying that the UK should have stayed in and reformed the EU from within?

So it appears it's not only leavers who are saying the EU needs reformed, remainers are also.

[Ulysses]

5 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

What about remainers who say that the EU is "needing reform", as is the case here with the poster saying that the UK should have stayed in and reformed the EU from within?

So it appears it's not only leavers who are saying the EU needs reformed, remainers are also.

 

So what?

 

Leave voters who refer to "reform" are just looking for excuses for their straight-banana vote.  They won't have a single practical idea for reform, because reform is not what they want.  The UK never sought reform; it sought opt-outs and rebates.

 

Boris' argument is that if you want to reform, you won't do it from outside. That's true.  Leave or Remain voter, it doesn't matter; we won't have any reason to take your views on board once you've left.  That, as they say, is democracy.

[ri Alban]

26 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Leave supporters complain about the EU "needing reform" as if it's somehow relevant. 

 

First of all, the EU that the Leave campaign wishes to leave doesn't actually exist - it's a figment of their imaginations along with such fictions as State aid restrictions and straight bananas.

 

Secondly, the UK never tried to reform the EU - it just negotiated cheap deals and opt-outs for itself.

 

The only purpose of the "reform" line is to provide the appearance of rationality and logic to the choice of voting Leave.

I find it quite astonishing, that the UK can even have the brass neck to tell the EU it needs to reform. If there is anywhere on the planet that needs reformed or broken up, it's the UK. Maybe the fear of the EU comes from the UK's own experience of the swallowing up of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland by England. Let's face it, according to everyone outside of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, the UK, Great Britain and England are the same thing. And that's not by accident.

[sairyinthat]

17 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Said absolutely no one.

 

Is this the new revised mantra of leavers? 'something will come up? Who will facilitate it? Who will agree to it? 

So at 23.01pm on 29/3 these plans just magically appear for a smooth transition to er........**** knows? 

 

There will be a transition. The UK will go from being strong and stable and will be thrown into fiscal and political turmoil.

 

Hah you wish,democracy is a bitch aint it. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Watching " Question Time" from last night. Usual dire stuff. Is there any city in England which doesn't support Brexit ?  You wouldnt think so judging from this farce.  What a bunch of complete losers in the audience and the panal....and to think the Nawbags think that we are a united nation ?????  No way judging from the bile and nonsense on this . 

[ri Alban]

33 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Watching " Question Time" from last night. Usual dire stuff. Is there any city in England which doesn't support Brexit ?  You wouldnt think so judging from this farce.  What a bunch of complete losers in the audience and the panal....and to think the Nawbags think that we are a united nation ?????  No way judging from the bile and nonsense on this . 

Did you see the Unionist Fae Scotland shouting about the £39b. No voting brexiteers, must be why we need a TARDIS to travel back to 1603 and tell James to stay in the fecking hoose.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

58 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

So what?

 

Leave voters who refer to "reform" are just looking for excuses for their straight-banana vote.  They won't have a single practical idea for reform, because reform is not what they want.  The UK never sought reform; it sought opt-outs and rebates.

 

Boris' argument is that if you want to reform, you won't do it from outside. That's true.  Leave or Remain voter, it doesn't matter; we won't have any reason to take your views on board once you've left.  That, as they say, is democracy.

 

And I agree with Boris, you can only change something like the EU from the inside, I have not as far as I can see disagreed with him, but it won't make much difference because in a few months the UK should be out of the EU, after that it's all academic to what the straight-banana brigade think or don't think whatever the case may be, for the rest of us, we'll just get on with our lives.

[Brighton Jambo]

6 hours ago, Boris said:

 

But it wouldn't be Holyrood reversing the decision, it woudl be the electorate.  Just like if there is a second ref on Brexit, it would be the people not Parliament deciding.

 

Also, while Brexit and Scottish independence may be similar on certain levels, they are completely different on others.

Fair enough but imagine if Holyrood was pushing another independence vote after a successful yes vote.  Even the prospect of a second vote that could lead to independence being reversed would drive yes voters crazy.  They would never willingly accept that scenario.  Which is the exact same as leavers.  

[CJGJ]

I'd like to propose we have 2 United Kingdoms..one for the idiot Brexiteers and the other for those who at least have some thought process

 

Those Brexiteers are only thinking of themselves and not the country as a whole peddling their immigration prejudices and acting like little Englanders thinking they can shut the world out and that we are still living in the 60's.

 

 I pity them for what is coming when they see the impact of their stupidity however as long as they voluntarily leave their jobs first when the consequences arrive and don't expect any hand outs then at least I can say they stood up for their beliefs...………..but you know they won't

 

It's not that I expect Brexit to fail as the spineless MP'S will give in and reach a deal but they will be okay in their cushy iobs for a few more years

Edited January 25, 2019 by CJGJ

[Francis Albert]

23 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

I'd like to propose we have 2 United Kingdoms..one for the idiot Brexiteers and the other for those who at least have some thought process

 

Those Brexiteers are only thinking of themselves and not the country as a whole peddling their immigration prejudices and acting like little Englanders thinking they can shut the world out and that we are still living in the 60's.

 

 I pity them for what is coming when they see the impact of their stupidity however as long as they voluntarily leave their jobs first when the consequences arrive and don't expect any hand outs then at least I can say they stood up for their beliefs...………..but you know they won't

 

It's not that I expect Brexit to fail as the spineless MP'S will give in and reach a deal but they will be okay in their cushy iobs for a few more years

Love it when someone who posts this sort of nonsense accuses others of not having thought processes!

Edited January 25, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Jambo-Jimbo]

9 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

I'd like to propose we have 2 United Kingdoms..one for the idiot Brexiteers and the other for those who at least have some thought process

 

 

 

Why not get them to wear some sort of identifying mark as well, so as the more intellegent members of the population can identify who the idiot brexiteers are.

 

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Why not get them to wear some sort of identifying mark as well, so as the more intellegent members of the population can identify who the idiot brexiteers are.

 

Tommy Robinson face masks all round would do the trick.

The more intelligent members of the population seeing no distinction between him and the 17.4m leave voters. 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Francis Albert

[jamboy1982]

25 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Why not get them to wear some sort of identifying mark as well, so as the more intellegent members of the population can identify who the idiot brexiteers are.

 

Think you’ll find that I proposed this months ago, it wasn’t backed on here. 

[Jambo100]

The setup in the commons is 2/3 remain 1/3 leave.The so called referendum was based on 37.3% of the total electoral roll allowed to vote.The none British voters were not allowed to vote in the referendum but can in a General election.The commons  has the democratic power to reverse Brexit.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

16 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Tommy Robinson face masks all round would do the trick.

The more intelligent members of the population seeing no distinction between him and the 17.4m leave voters. 

 

Exactly, for some all leavers are racists, as thick as two short planks and didn't know what we were voting for.

 

To add a bit of balance, the guy over the road from me, who happened to vote for remain, when I asked him his reasons for doing so, his reply was "Because the SNP wanted me to", I replied, yes I know they wanted people to vote to remain, but what were your reasons why you voted to remain, his reply "because the SNP wanted me to", I gave up asking him anything else.

 

[Ulysses]

20 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Exactly, for some all leavers are racists, as thick as two short planks and didn't know what we were voting for.

 

To add a bit of balance, the guy over the road from me, who happened to vote for remain, when I asked him his reasons for doing so, his reply was "Because the SNP wanted me to", I replied, yes I know they wanted people to vote to remain, but what were your reasons why you voted to remain, his reply "because the SNP wanted me to", I gave up asking him anything else.

 

 

 

When you say "balance", do you mean that in your view there's a balance or equivalence between opposing something because a political party calls for it and supporting something because you're a racist?

 

If you don't actually think that - and I'm pretty sure you don't - would you re-think your point about adding "a bit of balance"?

 

Asking for a friend.