Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Ked]

 

8 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

No. Making statements that were not true led to you being called a liar.

 

Accusing posters of making false claims and then making false claims yourself is an act of rank hypocrisy. Even more so when the falsification you accuse others of did not happen and so cannot be evidenced.

 

Just to be clear your statement was not one which was made in error, an exaggeration, or a misinterpretation. It was a clear untruth. What you said could not be reasonably inferred from the conversation.

 

Trying to suggest that your claim was real agenda in the conversation is a delusion on your part. If you resent being called a liar then you will find the statement that proves you to be correct. You can't find it because it doesn't exist.

 

"Left leaning people" on here or anywhere else are not ever in favour of worker exploitation as you suggest. You have distorted a conversation to suit your agenda and at the same time tried to discredit honest contributors. 

 

Your attempt to further distort what took place shows me that you are highly skilled in self deception but incapable of honest and rational discourse.

I gave an opinion.

 

You just posted several paragraphs ripping my persona and not one addressing the points I made.

Several paragraphs to basically call me a liar because I said I found some posts on here a tad fake in regards to brexit being at fault.

 

 

[Beni]

3 hours ago, Ked said:

 

I am not arguing the case for brexit.

 

 

You did vote for it though didn't you?

 

3 hours ago, Ked said:

It's also slightly worrying that what seem to be left leaning posters want their cheap food on the backs of cheap Labour.

Germany during the covid found its meat process workers to have appalling conditions.

 

It's also worth noting the impact environmentally of our want for "choice".

 

 

 

What have poor conditions in German meat plants got to do with the EU?

Recently on this thread the EU were being accused of making meat more expensive by being protectionist, you Brexiteers need to make up your minds which direction you're facing.

And it's a bit rich for Brexiteers to moan about environmental impacts, when the recent trade deals with Australia and New Zealand will mean more meat being transported half way round the world. Where was the concern for the environment when the Union Jack's were being waved?

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

That's what they claim. No-one admits to voting for them. Unsurprising really, not the sort of thing you would want to admit at a dinner party or in front of work colleagues. 

I vote for them as do a few buddies of mine. Mixed career backgrounds too. An Ex teacher, a telecomms supervisor, L and B CID, one with his own business and all Hearts fans. I have a Celtic supporting mate(fireman) who votes for them. He'd possibly know about the Kerrydale thing you go on about!

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

And it's a bit rich for Brexiteers to moan about environmental impacts, when the recent trade deals with Australia and New Zealand will mean more meat being transported half way round the world. Where was the concern for the environment when the Union Jack's were being waved?

Bravo. 

[Alex Kintner]

26 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

It was in his manifesto because, unlike in Scotland with Indy,  there WAS a massive demand for a Brexit referendum.  He popped it in the manifesto, we won and the vote went ahead. The Brexit side won.

The only reason it was in the manifesto was to appease the eurosceptics in the Tory party. Absolutely nothing to do with demand from the public. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Roxy Hearts said:

I vote for them as do a few buddies of mine. Mixed career backgrounds too. An Ex teacher, a telecomms supervisor, L and B CID, one with his own business and all Hearts fans. I have a Celtic supporting mate(fireman) who votes for them. He'd possibly know about the Kerrydale thing you go on about!

 

 

What Enzo cannot & will not accept is that

 

i) there have always been people who want independence but don't like the SNP (my dad)

 

ii) there are Scots who are totally p'd off being gaslighted by this govt (stay in the UK if you want to stay in the EU) and are now supporting independence (pretty much my entire family) but through no love of the SNP (my sister HATES the SNP). 

[Alex Kintner]

22 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

 

This is becoming a bit of a habit,  proving you wrong👌

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

The only reason it was in the manifesto was to appease the eurosceptics in the Tory party. Absolutely nothing to do with demand from the public. 

Correct - even the  polls close to referendum time only had them at 35%, prior to that it was barely registering.

But given Enzo has been quiet for a bit, I'm betting he's furiously googling for opinion polls to support his claim. 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

What Enzo cannot & will not accept is that

 

i) there have always been people who want independence but don't like the SNP (my dad)

 

ii) there are Scots who are totally p'd off being gaslighted by this govt (stay in the UK if you want to stay in the EU) and are now supporting independence (pretty much my entire family) but through no love of the SNP (my sister HATES the SNP). 

I think there’s a lot of people who voted No in 2014 who would vote Yes now. My parents both voted No in 2014 (despite my best efforts) but both have said they would now vote Yes. Brexit is one of the main reasons but they’re also sick of the being dictated to by a government in WM who show more and more contempt for Scotland.

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, NANOJAMBO said:

Correct - even the  polls close to referendum time only had them at 35%, prior to that it was barely registering.

But given Enzo has been quiet for a bit, I'm betting he's furiously googling for opinion polls to support his claim. 

I rarely use Google,  even more rarely to prove myself on here. I don't need to use it.

Just another figment of your imagination 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Correct - even the  polls close to referendum time only had them at 35%, prior to that it was barely registering.

But given Enzo has been quiet for a bit, I'm betting he's furiously googling for opinion polls to support his claim. 

Even the day before the referendum the bookies had it at something like Leave 8/1, Remain 1/12.

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Are you sure you used to be a teacher?

🤣

I'll take the meme as a concession. Checkmate, as we say.

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Are you sure you used to be a teacher?

🤣

I'll take the meme as a concession. Checkmate, as we say.

Take it whatever way you want just like you do with every other post 🤣

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

I think there’s a lot of people who voted No in 2014 who would vote Yes now. My parents both voted No in 2014 (despite my best efforts) but both have said they would now vote Yes. Brexit is one of the main reasons but they’re also sick of the being dictated to by a government in WM who show more and more contempt for Scotland.

That is my experience in my immediate family. Brexit & Clownshoes is/was toxic for unionists. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Correct - even the  polls close to referendum time only had them at 35%, prior to that it was barely registering.

But given Enzo has been quiet for a bit, I'm betting he's furiously googling for opinion polls to support his claim. 

Barely registering??

UKIP in 2014 WON the EU Elections in the UK and followed it by with 2 Westminster by-election victories.🤣No demand for change? Aye right.

That's why it was in the manifesto.

 

We've only really been 2nd Div in Europe, tbh, quite rightly shunning the nonsensical Euro, and reluctant to embrace any more treaty changes. 

Brexit was the culmination of years of discord and wrangling with Europe.

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

9 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Even the day before the referendum the bookies had it at something like Leave 8/1, Remain 1/12.

👍

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Barely registering??   That's correct. In the years before 2016/UKIP / ERG. 

UKIP in 2014 WON the EU Elections in the UK and followed it by with 2 Westminster by-election victories.🤣No demand for change?

You're changing your tack again, we're not talking about "change". 

Aye right.

No, wrong. 

 

 

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

That's why it was in the manifesto.

That's incorrect.  DC did it to shut down the ERG cult in his own party. 

 

We've only really been 2nd Div in Europe, tbh, quite rightly shunning the nonsensical Euro, and reluctant to embrace any more treaty changes. Irrelevant

 

Brexit was the culmination of years of discord and wrangling with Europe.

You've changed tack again. You are claiming  a "massive" demand for a referendum and you haven't shown one opinion poll that demonstrates that claim. Better get googling. 

 

 

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Barely registering??

UKIP in 2014 WON the EU Elections in the UK and followed it by with 2 Westminster by-election victories.🤣No demand for change? Aye right.

That's why it was in the manifesto.

 

We've only really been 2nd Div in Europe, tbh, quite rightly shunning the nonsensical Euro, and reluctant to embrace any more treaty changes. 

Brexit was the culmination of years of discord and wrangling with Europe.

 

 

It was January 2013 that David Cameron announced it would be in their manifesto. 
 

What happened in 2014 was therefore irrelevant to that decision.
 

In May 2013, four months after the decision was made, UKIP only got 19% of the vote in the Uk local elections. 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

 

Changing tack??🤣ffs, your one dimensional thinking takes some beating.

If the "change" that UKIP victories demand is not a referendum on EU membership wtf is it🤣🤣.

 

It's EXACTLY the point I'm making, the referendum came about because of the public demand for one, evidenced by UKIP victories.

[coconut doug]

39 minutes ago, Ked said:

 

I gave an opinion.

 

You just posted several paragraphs ripping my persona and not one addressing the points I made.

Several paragraphs to basically call me a liar because I said I found some posts on here a tad fake in regards to brexit being at fault.

 

 

 

I do find claims on here a tad fake.

It's also slightly worrying that what seem to be left leaning posters want their cheap food on the backs of cheap Labour.

 

That's what you said and it's nothing to do with Brexit being at fault. It's not really an opinion either you made a statement which isn't true. Nobody argued for getting cheap food on the backs of cheap Labour did they?

 

Now you are misrepresenting what happened again. 

 

I'm not interested in discussing Brexit with you. I only intervened because what you said was not true. 

 

I wouldn't call anybody a liar, a hypocrite or self deceiving unless i absolutely believed it to be tha case. You have done nothing to dissuade me from my view. 

 

You also said I could go back through the thread and post quotes. Why don't you do just that and make me eat my words?

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

It was January 2013 that David Cameron announced it would be in their manifesto. 
 

What happened in 2014 was therefore irrelevant to that decision.
 

In May 2013, four months after the decision was made, UKIP only got 19% of the vote in the Uk local elections. 

 

Enzo totally unable to grasp that brexit/quit the EU  attitudes is  a recent phenomenon (in terms of critical mass). 

[Enzo Chiefo]

5 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

It was January 2013 that David Cameron announced it would be in their manifesto. 
 

What happened in 2014 was therefore irrelevant to that decision.
 

In May 2013, four months after the decision was made, UKIP only got 19% of the vote in the Uk local elections. 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, NANOJAMBO said:

Enzo totally unable to grasp that brexit/quit the EU  attitudes is  a recent phenomenon (in terms of critical mass). 

The demand for a R E F E R E N D U M has been there for years, after each and every treaty was signed, further eroding UK sovereignty. 

FFS. Hope that gets through this time. 

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

Changing tack??🤣ffs, your one dimensional thinking takes some beating.

Just to be clear : you made claims for "massive" support for a referendum. That's what we're talking about. 

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

If the "change" that UKIP victories demand is not a referendum on EU membership wtf is it🤣🤣.

You've just been shown UKIP votes fell off a cliff : so, accepting UKIP votes as a barometer, that must mean not only was demand NOT "massive", it had actually fallen - massively. 😄

 

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

 

It's EXACTLY the point I'm making, the referendum came about because of the public demand for one, evidenced by UKIP victories.

There was no demand for one - find an opinion poll & prove it. 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The demand for a R E F E R E N D U M has been there for years, after each and every treaty was signed, further eroding UK sovereignty. 

FFS. Hope that gets through this time. 

In which case you can find any number of opinion polls over the years and win the argument.

Hope that gets through this time. 

So,  get googling. 

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

“I'll take the meme as a concession. Checkmate, as we say.”

[Alex Kintner]

9 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

In which case you can find any number of opinion polls over the years and win the argument.

Hope that gets through this time. 

So,  get googling. 

Here’s one: Ipso Mori opinion polling from 1997-2019

 

 

In 2013, when the referendum was promised to be in the Tory manifesto, only 8% of those polled felt Europe/EU/Brexit was an important issue.

 

 

8%
 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alex Kintner

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Here’s one: Ipso Mori opinion polling from 1997-2019

 

 

In 2013, when the referendum was promised to be in the Tory manifesto, only 8% of those polled felt Europe/EU/Brexit was an important issue.

 

 

8%
 

 

Enzo "8%, MAAAAAASSIVE!!!!"

 

Game, set & match.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Enzo "8%, MAAAAAASSIVE!!!!"

 

Game, set & match.

 

Can’t wait to see how he denies this one 🤣🤣🤣

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Can’t wait to see how he denies this one 🤣🤣🤣

"And now , bent bananas",  or some such shit. 

Pure deflection incoming . Nap.

 

[Beni]

5 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Enzo totally unable to grasp that brexit/quit the EU  attitudes is  a recent phenomenon (in terms of critical mass). 

 

Correct.

There's always been a fairly small minority against the EU, from both the extreme right and left, but there was never a groundswell of public opinion to leave.

As has been said David Cameron, who wanted his party to "stop banging on about Europe" wrongly thought a referendum would put the matter to bed.

 

The various billionaire tax exile proprietors at the Telegraph, Mail, Express, Times, Sun etc saw their chance, and whipped up xenophobia to make people vote against their own economic interests, but the outcome would of course be beneficial to the tax affairs of said billionaires.

The useful idiots probably still don't understand how they were played, and if they do they're unlikely to admit it to themselves, far less anyone else.

[pablo]

38 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

That is my experience in my immediate family. Brexit & Clownshoes is/was toxic for unionists. 

 

I'm curious as to why you can come to that conclusion? Despite Brexit and Boris Johnson nothing much has changed in terms of support for leaving the UK, 50-50 with swings of a few points up and down. That's got to be seen as a failure, or at least a missed opportunity I'd have thought? 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

I'm curious as to why you can come to that conclusion? Despite Brexit and Boris Johnson nothing much has changed in terms of support for leaving the UK, 50-50 with swings of a few points up and down. That's got to be seen as a failure, or at least a missed opportunity I'd have thought? 

In Scotland ? 

[pablo]

1 minute ago, NANOJAMBO said:

In Scotland ? 

 

Yeah, pretty much isn't it? 50-50 with a few point swings in either direction from time to time.

[NANOJAMBO]

6 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

Correct.

There's always been a fairly small minority against the EU, from both the extreme right and left, but there was never a groundswell of public opinion to leave.

As has been said David Cameron, who wanted his party to "stop banging on about Europe" wrongly thought a referendum would put the matter to bed.

 

The various billionaire tax exile proprietors at the Telegraph, Mail, Express, Times, Sun etc saw their chance, and whipped up xenophobia to make people vote against their own economic interests, but the outcome would of course be beneficial to the tax affairs of said billionaires.

The useful idiots probably still don't understand how they were played, and if they do they're unlikely to admit it to themselves, far less anyone else.

Indeed, I think that's well understood but not by many brexiters, obvously, who continue with the self delusion that there was a "massive" demand for "taking back control".

[Beni]

12 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Here’s one: Ipso Mori opinion polling from 1997-2019

 

 

In 2013, when the referendum was promised to be in the Tory manifesto, only 8% of those polled felt Europe/EU/Brexit was an important issue.

 

 

8%
 

 

 

 

 

Oh my!

3 pages of deflection and bluster incoming.

 

One for Kickback historians, is there some sort of record for a poster being handed their arse on a plate on a single thread!

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

Yeah, pretty much isn't it? 50-50 with a few point swings in either direction from time to time.

Fair enough. For context , I was talking anecdotally about my family's attitudes to brexit/indy/Clownshoes. 

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I'm curious as to why you can come to that conclusion? Despite Brexit and Boris Johnson nothing much has changed in terms of support for leaving the UK, 50-50 with swings of a few points up and down. That's got to be seen as a failure, or at least a missed opportunity I'd have thought? 

Compared to polling prior to the 2014 referendum campaign, it’s a pretty big difference.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 minute ago, Beni said:

 

Oh my!

3 pages of deflection and bluster incoming.

 

One for Kickback historians, is there some sort of record for a poster being handed their arse on a plate on a single thread!

I think someone already asked the mods to put this in the "Classics"  thread. 

 

😄

[Japan Jambo]

1 hour ago, Alex Kintner said:

The only reason it was in the manifesto was to appease the eurosceptics in the Tory party. Absolutely nothing to do with demand from the public. 

 

Nah both, Tories were getting squeezed left right and centre in marginal seats.

 

Appreciate this is after the referendum but hopefully you take the point;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/03/nigel-farages-brexit-party-saved-labour-seats-in-2019-election-analysis-finds

[pablo]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Compared to polling prior to the 2014 referendum campaign, it’s a pretty big difference.

 

No doubt. Just to have made no more headway in these last 7 years with everything that's happened seems like a failure to capitalise on a bit of an open goal?

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

Nah both, Tories were getting squeezed left right and centre in marginal seats.

 

Appreciate this is after the referendum but hopefully you take the point;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/03/nigel-farages-brexit-party-saved-labour-seats-in-2019-election-analysis-finds

That definitely happened in 2014/15 but the manifesto pledge was made in 2013. 
 

Every political commentator or journalist you read on the subject says it was done to either appease the eurosceptic Tories or to pull the rug from under their feet. Enzo knows better though 🙄

[Japan Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Nah both, Tories were getting squeezed left right and centre in marginal seats.

 

Appreciate this is after the referendum but hopefully you take the point;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/03/nigel-farages-brexit-party-saved-labour-seats-in-2019-election-analysis-finds

 

22 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Here’s one: Ipso Mori opinion polling from 1997-2019

 

 

In 2013, when the referendum was promised to be in the Tory manifesto, only 8% of those polled felt Europe/EU/Brexit was an important issue.

 

 

8%
 

 

 

 

 

Interesting - looking at the timescales and the history of the Brexit Party I'd like my last post back!! Recency bias clearly playing tricks with me.

 

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, pablo said:

 

No doubt. Just to have made no more headway in these last 7 years with everything that's happened seems like a failure to capitalise on a bit of an open goal?

Maybe. It was pro-Indy for a good while bit a lot of the mud from the Scot Parl shenanigans  last year has stuck.

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

 

Interesting - looking at the timescales and the history of the Brexit Party I'd like my last post back!! Recency bias clearly playing tricks with me.

 

Admitting you were mistaken? On this thread? That’ll never catch on! 😂

[Ulysses]

9 hours ago, Cade said:

UK meat producers are considering exporting their carcasses to be butchered and packaged in Ireland and the Netherlands then shipped back, due to staffing issues at meat processing plants.

 

Of course, it then will be labelled as "packaged in the EU"

 

 

Industry is reporting a 10,000 to 15,000 shortage of staff. UK govt has given out 900 visas to EU workers to come and work as butcher but none have yet arrived. And 900 is just a little bit short of 10-15,000 anyways.

 

9 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

Of course supply of the meat products will become more limited and prices will increase.  Demand and consumption will reduce.  The government will probably take the credit for being world leading in the shift towards consuming less meat and reducing associated greenhouse gas emissions.  

 

8 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Priceless!
 

Increasing our carbon footprint. Increasing the price of our butcher meat in the shops (as if food inflation currently running at 14-15% wasn’t bad enough). Potentially further limiting choice. Placing even greater demands on our U.K. HGV driver shortage. And at the end of it all, we get to put “packaged in the EU”  all over British produce. The flag sh****rs won’t be happy.

 

Brexit - the gift that just keeps on taking (the p**s).

 

But...

 

...if you want to export live animals, animal carcasses or animal products from the UK to Ireland or the Netherlands, you now have to go through a shit-ton of bureaucracy and waste lots of time, and in some cases you can't do it at all...

 

...then, it lands in Ireland or the Netherlands, which may not have very much excess processing capacity as matters stand...

 

...then, to export meat products from Ireland or the Netherlands to the UK, you have to go through a shit-ton of bureaucracy and waste lots of time, and in some cases you can't do it at all...

 

...so how the **** does this work in any way usefully for British businesses or British consumers?

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

 

But...

 

...if you want to export live animals, animal carcasses or animal products from the UK to Ireland or the Netherlands, you now have to go through a shit-ton of bureaucracy and waste lots of time, and in some cases you can't do it at all...

 

...then, it lands in Ireland or the Netherlands, which may not have very much excess processing capacity as matters stand...

 

...then, to export meat products from Ireland or the Netherlands to the UK, you have to go through a shit-ton of bureaucracy and waste lots of time, and in some cases you can't do it at all...

 

...so how the **** does this work in any way usefully for British businesses or British consumers?

From the BBC - and they wouldn't lie 🙄

 

The British Meat Processors Association (BMPA) say producers are sending beef to the Republic of Ireland amid local shortages of butchers.

Meanwhile, pork producers are set to begin sending pigs to the Netherlands for butchering and packing.

Meat exported in this way cannot be labelled as British pork for UK sale.

According to the BMPA, the move will cost an additional £1,500 for each lorry load of carcasses. This includes transport fees, as well as Brexit customs requirements, such as an export health certificate for each consignment.

 

So now we're reduced to sending scarce hgv resources to the EU to process meat and use the same scarce resource to re-import it . 

[Ulysses]

8 hours ago, Ked said:

Once again theres a bigger picture.

I hope you all are enjoying your cheap meat.

Again this problem exists outside and despite of your brexit to blame for everything.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/28/revealed-exploitation-of-meat-plant-workers-rife-across-uk-and-europe

 

German meat processing plants were the subject that led its government to declare we do not pay enough for meat.

Squalid workers conditions led to mass covid outbreaks.

 

Enjoy your undoubted fun bashing brexit but try to see past your demand for cheap meat .

It's TRUE cost is what you should be concerned about.

Or you could just continue as per your posts hark for cheap outsourced and exploited foreign labour .

That's the reality of cheap meat .

Still the spoilt want their choice.

 

You can't just shout "problem - Brexit - FIX - yaaaaay" over and over again and hope for the best.  I've lost count of the number of times I've read variants of this notion - treating Brexit as a cure for which there is currently no known disease.  If you want to fix plastics/global heating/cheap and nasty food production/capitalism/world hunger/illiteracy/cancer/etc (take your pick) you can't just chuck Brexit at the problem as hard as you can and hope that it sticks.

[Japan Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

Admitting you were mistaken? On this thread? That’ll never catch on! 😂

 

lol, my ego will be just fine 🤣

[Ulysses]

5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

To be honest, the UK has never really been fully aligned with the EU since the creep towards federalism began.

Mrs Thatcher warned of the dangers back in 1989 and so they have come to pass.  Blair, in addition to selling away part of Mrs T's hard won rebate, also promised, but reneged on, a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and, of course, we refused to join the Euro, unless 5 stringent tests were met.

We've never really been a comfortable member of the EU, post Common Market days so, despite the histrionics of the pampered classes, Brexit has been an inevitability for years imo. 

 

You won.  Stop crying.  The thread's about the deal - the crap deal that your "national" government did, trying to throw the population of NI under a bus in the process.