Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Japan Jambo]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You lucky feckers got them out. 

 

We're locked in steerage aboard the RMS Titanic. 

 

Stop slacking off in steerage and get back to work in the galleys you lazy git. 🤣

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Stop slacking off in steerage and get back to work in the galleys you lazy git. 🤣

that's what the Welsh do.

 

Everybody is somebody's bitch. 

[WorldChampions1902]

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

that's what the Welsh do.

 

Everybody is somebody's bitch. 

 

 

[Ulysses]

39 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Nope, the fact is that the kind of tactics that you describe only work at the margins. The UK has always had a substantial number of voters who were somewhere between EU-hesitant and EU-sceptic.  There is evidence of that right back to 1975 when a third of voters voted against remaining in membership of the EEC.  So the tactics you describe - whether legal or not - did no more than to capitalise on pent-up sentiment that already existed.  And opinion polls on the question of the UK's membership of the EU had shown Leave majorities as far back as September 2010.  Even in the run-in to the Scottish independence referendum in September 2014, when EU membership was bandied about as a reason to vote No, there were four YouGov polls in a row showing a statistical dead heat on the question of the UK's continued membership of the EU - the four polls were:

 

June 29-30 Remain +1%, undecided 21%

July 13-14 Remain +3%, undecided 21%

Aug 10-11 Remain +2%, undecided 22%

Aug 25-26 Remain +1%, undecided 19%

 

The YouGov poll on August 25-26 showed a massive discrepancy between Scotland and England/Wales.  Across the UK, the poll showed 41-40 in favour of Remain, with 19% undecided.  In Scotland, the poll showed 55-30 in favour of Remain, with 15% undecided.  The Scottish figures have a higher margin of error because of the small sample size, but the same discrepancy appeared throughout that summer.

 

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ylfpbtmctf/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-260814.pdf

 

 

Correct, Ulysses. Of course there was a pent up demand for a referendum.  We had also been promised a plebiscite on the Lisbon Treat iirc and, having never really been comfortable partners with the EU, the referendum was certainly an inevitability.  Other countries did get to vote on treaty changes - Ireland and Denmark, off the top of my head, rejected the changes and were simply instructed to vote again, in true EU style.

 

Some on here are tripping themselves up trying to rewrite history and twist the evidence to, just for a change, blame everything on the "hard Tory right".

[Unknown user]

Ulysses wins! Well played, help yourself to a pork pie

[WorldChampions1902]

57 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Plenty on here do for sure. It’s the only explanation for their defence of the indefensible. 😁

Edited November 4, 2021 by WorldChampions1902

[Alex Kintner]

39 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Correct, Ulysses. Of course there was a pent up demand for a referendum.  We had also been promised a plebiscite on the Lisbon Treat iirc and, having never really been comfortable partners with the EU, the referendum was certainly an inevitability.  Other countries did get to vote on treaty changes - Ireland and Denmark, off the top of my head, rejected the changes and were simply instructed to vote again, in true EU style.

 

Some on here are tripping themselves up trying to rewrite history and twist the evidence to, just for a change, blame everything on the "hard Tory right".

Definitely a pent up demand.👍🏻

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From 8% 👍🏻

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Correct, Ulysses. Of course there was a pent up demand for a referendum.  We had also been promised a plebiscite on the Lisbon Treat iirc and, having never really been comfortable partners with the EU, the referendum was certainly an inevitability.  Other countries did get to vote on treaty changes - Ireland and Denmark, off the top of my head, rejected the changes and were simply instructed to vote again, in true EU style.

 

Some on here are tripping themselves up trying to rewrite history and twist the evidence to, just for a change, blame everything on the "hard Tory right".

 

Enzo, when I'm able to say fair play to you for getting something right, don't spoil it by getting something wrong.  Denmark didn't have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.  Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty in a referendum in June 2008.  The Irish government then negotiated a set of amendments and guarantees in respect of five broad areas of concern specific to Ireland which were added as a Protocol to the Treaty.  A second referendum was held in October 2009 at which the modified Treaty was accepted.  Ireland rejected the Treaty, set out the reasons for that rejection to its partner member countries, and got changes made so that the Treaty would be more acceptable - in true EU style.

[Konrad von Carstein]

22 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Enzo, when I'm able to say fair play to you for getting something right, don't spoil it by getting something wrong.  Denmark didn't have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.  Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty in a referendum in June 2008.  The Irish government then negotiated a set of amendments and guarantees in respect of five broad areas of concern specific to Ireland which were added as a Protocol to the Treaty.  A second referendum was held in October 2009 at which the modified Treaty was accepted.  Ireland rejected the Treaty, set out the reasons for that rejection to its partner member countries, and got changes made so that the Treaty would be more acceptable - in true EU style.

[The Mighty Thor]

What he giveth, he taketh away.

 

 

[WorldChampions1902]

40 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Enzo, when I'm able to say fair play to you for getting something right, don't spoil it by getting something wrong.  Denmark didn't have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.  Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty in a referendum in June 2008.  The Irish government then negotiated a set of amendments and guarantees in respect of five broad areas of concern specific to Ireland which were added as a Protocol to the Treaty.  A second referendum was held in October 2009 at which the modified Treaty was accepted.  Ireland rejected the Treaty, set out the reasons for that rejection to its partner member countries, and got changes made so that the Treaty would be more acceptable - in true EU style.

More NANO “seconds” will be served up in a nanosecond to compound poor Enzo’s misery. 😐

[Alex Kintner]

#prayforenzo

[Enzo Chiefo]

46 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Enzo, when I'm able to say fair play to you for getting something right, don't spoil it by getting something wrong.  Denmark didn't have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.  Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty in a referendum in June 2008.  The Irish government then negotiated a set of amendments and guarantees in respect of five broad areas of concern specific to Ireland which were added as a Protocol to the Treaty.  A second referendum was held in October 2009 at which the modified Treaty was accepted.  Ireland rejected the Treaty, set out the reasons for that rejection to its partner member countries, and got changes made so that the Treaty would be more acceptable - in true EU style.

Ulysses, fair enough but I did postface it with "iirc". I thought there were 2 countries that put it to their people but, obv not.

Thanks for confirming...in true style.😁

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

More NANO “seconds” will be served up in a nanosecond to compound poor Enzo’s misery. 😐

Nano's out.  Off the pace. Sin bin for peddling great, whopping untruths. 

[Roxy Hearts]

41 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ulysses, fair enough but I did postface it with "iirc". I thought there were 2 countries that put it to their people but, obv not.

Thanks for confirming...in true style.😁

Great what independent countries can do!

[Enzo Chiefo]

18 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Great what independent countries can do!

Independent countries, like the UK, have to be able to control their laws, borders and money. Brussels rule is incompatible with being "independent".

[Ulysses]

4 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ulysses, fair enough but I did postface it with "iirc". I thought there were 2 countries that put it to their people but, obv not.

Thanks for confirming...in true style.😁

 

IIRC, you did indeed, fair play to you. 

 

You were also close about the pesky Danes.  Although they didn't have a referendum on Lisbon, they did have one on the euro and rejected it.  The reason for having a euro referendum in Denmark but not a Lisbon one is something that only experts in Danish constitutional law can explain.

 

One serious point on which we agree, even if our political stances generally are different.  The relationship between the UK and Europe has been a "bone of contention" in the UK political system for a long time.  Euroscepticism waxed and waned over the years, but it's been a consistent feature of the political landscape for a very long time.  Whether you're a remainer, a leaver, or a foreign observer, I don't think you can have a genuine discussion about Brexit while ignoring that.

 

Where we might then part company and go back to disagreeing is over what happens next.  Some people see the issues involved in the relationship between the UK and Europe as having been resolved by Brexit.  But they haven't, because the issues aren't about the UK's membership of the EU - they're about how the UK sees its role in relation to Europe in general and the EU in particular.  That sort of stuff will rumble on for decades, as it has rumbled on for decades, and Brexit is only one event amongst all of that.

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Independent countries, like the UK, have to be able to control their laws, borders and money. Brussels rule is incompatible with being "independent".

 

And yet.  In this country we pool our sovereignty with others.  They get to influence our laws, and we get to influence theirs.  And it works pretty well.  It has certainly increased both the size of our economy and the reach of our diplomacy.  In any case, power in the EU is very distributed and very decentralised. 

 

We can all control our borders.  All the UK did by leaving was deny access to the labour market to EU citizens (from 24 of the 27 at any rate), while simultaneously cutting access to those labour markets for British people.  As regards the world outside the EU, the UK brought in a lot of people from the Southern Asian countries it previously colonised, while France didn't, instead taking in people from its former North African colonies.  France or the UK didn't wait for the EU to dictate that, and could cheerfully have told the EU to feck off if it had tried.

 

As for money, the UK could always control its own currency, as can Denmark.  Technically, Sweden, Bulgaria, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Romania and the Czech Republic are obliged to adopt the euro, but because of a loophole in the rules (some say deliberately planted there by the EU) membership is actually voluntary.

 

Ireland single-handedly negotiated changes to major constitutional frameworks in the EU over the years.  So did the UK, Sweden, Denmark and others.  All of those countries and all of the other members regularly and repeatedly shaped, negotiated and changed the laws of the EU month in and month out over the years.  All of those countries were independent when doing so.  All of them still are. 

 

"Brussels rule" is a shibboleth.

[Roxy Hearts]

8 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Independent countries, like the UK, have to be able to control their laws, borders and money. Brussels rule is incompatible with being "independent".

See Ulysses response. Are you saying that none of the countries in Europe are "independent"? Laughable. I'd like to see Scotland negotiate its position and take responsibility for everything whether we'd be in the EU or not. 

 

4 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

And yet.  In this country we pool our sovereignty with others.  They get to influence our laws, and we get to influence theirs.  And it works pretty well.  It has certainly increased both the size of our economy and the reach of our diplomacy.  In any case, power in the EU is very distributed and very decentralised. 

 

We can all control our borders.  All the UK did by leaving was deny access to the labour market to EU citizens (from 24 of the 27 at any rate), while simultaneously cutting access to those labour markets for British people.  As regards the world outside the EU, the UK brought in a lot of people from the Southern Asian countries it previously colonised, while France didn't, instead taking in people from its former North African colonies.  France or the UK didn't wait for the EU to dictate that, and could cheerfully have told the EU to feck off if it had tried.

 

As for money, the UK could always control its own currency, as can Denmark.  Technically, Sweden, Bulgaria, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Romania and the Czech Republic are obliged to adopt the euro, but because of a loophole in the rules (some say deliberately planted there by the EU) membership is actually voluntary.

 

Ireland single-handedly negotiated changes to major constitutional frameworks in the EU over the years.  So did the UK, Sweden, Denmark and others.  All of those countries and all of the other members regularly and repeatedly shaped, negotiated and changed the laws of the EU month in and month out over the years.  All of those countries were independent when doing so.  All of them still are. 

 

"Brussels rule" is a shibboleth.

Great Post.

[SE16 3LN]

13 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

These irresponsible soundbites from the mouth frothing remainers are what makes them the anti vaxxers of the brexit world. This comes from a forecast about levels of scarring across the G20 caused by Covid. All but the US are expected to suffer significant levels of scarring, but in true non scientific style, the "scientists" pick a figure out of nowhere for Brexit and add it to the UK's performance. Hey presto Brexit evil strikes again. 12 months ago the same mouth frothers were predicting the UK would have the lowest economic growth of the G20 nations in 2021. It looks like, using actual data. they will have the highest growth. 

 

I'm off to the empty local supermarket to be served by the non existent EU workers, who have no doubt abandoned the UK to its well deserved, cataclysmic state.

[The Mighty Thor]

30 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

These irresponsible soundbites from the mouth frothing remainers are what makes them the anti vaxxers of the brexit world. This comes from a forecast about levels of scarring across the G20 caused by Covid. All but the US are expected to suffer significant levels of scarring, but in true non scientific style, the "scientists" pick a figure out of nowhere for Brexit and add it to the UK's performance. Hey presto Brexit evil strikes again. 12 months ago the same mouth frothers were predicting the UK would have the lowest economic growth of the G20 nations in 2021. It looks like, using actual data. they will have the highest growth. 

 

I'm off to the empty local supermarket to be served by the non existent EU workers, who have no doubt abandoned the UK to its well deserved, cataclysmic state.

It doesn't though. 

 

The figures are from the OBR, the governments very own financial analysis department, who showed scarrring of 4% of GDP this year for Brexit and a further 2% on top for Covid. 

[Alex Kintner]

38 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

These irresponsible soundbites from the mouth frothing remainers are what makes them the anti vaxxers of the brexit world. This comes from a forecast about levels of scarring across the G20 caused by Covid. All but the US are expected to suffer significant levels of scarring, but in true non scientific style, the "scientists" pick a figure out of nowhere for Brexit and add it to the UK's performance. Hey presto Brexit evil strikes again. 12 months ago the same mouth frothers were predicting the UK would have the lowest economic growth of the G20 nations in 2021. It looks like, using actual data. they will have the highest growth. 

 

I'm off to the empty local supermarket to be served by the non existent EU workers, who have no doubt abandoned the UK to its well deserved, cataclysmic state.

Isn’t the point of that soundbite that the scarring caused by Covid is going to be made even worse by the 4% hit to GDP caused by Brexit?

[Beni]

54 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

These irresponsible soundbites from the mouth frothing remainers are what makes them the anti vaxxers of the brexit world. This comes from a forecast about levels of scarring across the G20 caused by Covid. All but the US are expected to suffer significant levels of scarring, but in true non scientific style, the "scientists" pick a figure out of nowhere for Brexit and add it to the UK's performance. Hey presto Brexit evil strikes again. 12 months ago the same mouth frothers were predicting the UK would have the lowest economic growth of the G20 nations in 2021. It looks like, using actual data. they will have the highest growth. 

 

I'm off to the empty local supermarket to be served by the non existent EU workers, who have no doubt abandoned the UK to its well deserved, cataclysmic state.

 

The "mouth frothing remainers" soundbite is from the FT. 

Who in turn are quoting the government's own statisticians (mouth frothers).

The UK had the largest contraction of GDP amongst similar economies in 2020, so having the largest bounce back in 2021 isn't much to be bragging about.

If you think you're more qualified to predict the economic effect of Brexit it would be good to hear your analysis.

Apart from that, great post.

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, SE16 3LN said:

These irresponsible soundbites from the mouth frothing remainers are what makes them the anti vaxxers of the brexit world. This comes from a forecast about levels of scarring across the G20 caused by Covid. All but the US are expected to suffer significant levels of scarring, but in true non scientific style, the "scientists" pick a figure out of nowhere for Brexit and add it to the UK's performance. Hey presto Brexit evil strikes again. 12 months ago the same mouth frothers were predicting the UK would have the lowest economic growth of the G20 nations in 2021. It looks like, using actual data. they will have the highest growth. 

 

I'm off to the empty local supermarket to be served by the non existent EU workers, who have no doubt abandoned the UK to its well deserved, cataclysmic state.

Yet again, a Brexit-denier tries to airbrush acknowledged experts. Just like they did with the government’s own Yellowhammer Report - how’s that going BTW? It’s all actually happened hasn’t  it, despite Leavers drowning out the facts with their puerile “Project Fear!” mantras. So, let’s be clear, Leavers have absolutely no credibility when it comes to challenging credible commentators on their Brexit forecasts or impact statements. Especially when THEIR predictions Including those plastered on a red bus were not just total bollocks, but cynical lies.

 

Here is a link to the OBR website. To save you the bother, one of the relevant passages states quote, “

Impact of the Brexit trade agreement on our economy forecast

March 3rd, 2021

Our November 2020 EFO was conditioned on the broad-brush assumption that the additional trade barriers associated with leaving the EU would reduce the long-run productivity of the UK by around 4 per cent.^a The full impact was assumed to take 15 years to be realised. Around twofifths of the 4 per cent impact has effectively already occurred as a result of uncertainty since the referendum weighing on investment and capital deepening. With the terms of the deal now known, we can assess how the TCA compares with our previous assumption of a ‘typical’ FTA, and take account of the early evidence on its immediate impact.

 

https://obr.uk/box/impact-of-the-brexit-trade-agreement-on-our-economy-forecast/

 

As the underlined text shows, we are already well on the way to suffering that 4% negative impact to our economy. Interestingly, you also choose to ignore the explicit statement in that FT article I previously posted that says, “Brexit is costing the Exchequer and the country billions that the U.K. really could use”.

 

Given the Brexit-degraded economic outlook predicted by acknowledged experts that is purely attributed to Brexit and yes, compounded by COVID, I suggest you ensure you collect that £1 trolley deposit from your supermarket visit. You’re going to need it.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

GV not taking any sh yte today ....

 

@guyverhofstadt

 

No Frost, it’s not the protocol but BREXIT that destroyed cross-community consent. Not 1 moment did Brexiteers consider NI implications & risks to Good Friday Agreement, while everyone incl. EU warned them !

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

GV not taking any sh yte today ....

 

@guyverhofstadt

 

No Frost, it’s not the protocol but BREXIT that destroyed cross-community consent. Not 1 moment did Brexiteers consider NI implications & risks to Good Friday Agreement, while everyone incl. EU warned them !

It is crystal clear what is going on here, except of course to the hard of thinking. And it was predicted. Spoil for a fight with the EU to detract from the appalling (cake and eat it) Brexit deal and its widely predicted consequences.
 

Sadly, for a large number of the population, it will work. Instead of looking at the realities of what has happened, why and who is responsible, the morons will double-down on the EU “bullies”. And Clown shoes will continue to lie, deceive and treat the electorate with utter contempt. Tragic.

[NANOJAMBO]

22 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

It is crystal clear what is going on here, except of course to the hard of thinking. And it was predicted. Spoil for a fight with the EU to detract from the appalling (cake and eat it) Brexit deal and its widely predicted consequences.
 

Sadly, for a large number of the population, it will work. Instead of looking at the realities of what has happened, why and who is responsible, the morons will double-down on the EU “bullies”. And Clown shoes will continue to lie, deceive and treat the electorate with utter contempt. Tragic.

In fairness , I don't think there was much/any thought on the part of many voters (remain or leave) for the GFA or impact on NI.

But it's perfectly clear that Ireland was spelling it out to the UK (Cameron was told in clear terms) and as soon as the ref result was known they were lobbying in the USA to ensure the White House put their weight behind the GFA. 

I think where we can agree is that brexiters need to acknowledge the dangers that brexit poses to peace in NI (although, perversely the NI economy is doing extremely well due to the shift towards NI<-> Irl trade) and that the NIP is going to stay.  There's no avoiding it. 

[WorldChampions1902]

2 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

In fairness , I don't think there was much/any thought on the part of many voters (remain or leave) for the GFA or impact on NI.

But it's perfectly clear that Ireland was spelling it out to the UK (Cameron was told in clear terms) and as soon as the ref result was known they were lobbying in the USA to ensure the White House put their weight behind the GFA. 

I think where we can agree is that brexiters need to acknowledge the dangers that brexit poses to peace in NI (although, perversely the NI economy is doing extremely well due to the shift towards NI<-> Irl trade) and that the NIP is going to stay.  There's no avoiding it. 

Unfortunately for the U.K. government, the fact that the NI economy is doing so well is an embarrassment to Brexit as it shows the deal up for what it is - extremely damaging to the GB economy. IMHO, this is another factor playing into what Clown shoes is up to.

[SE16 3LN]

2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Yet again, a Brexit-denier tries to airbrush acknowledged experts. Just like they did with the government’s own Yellowhammer Report - how’s that going BTW? It’s all actually happened hasn’t  it, despite Leavers drowning out the facts with their puerile “Project Fear!” mantras. So, let’s be clear, Leavers have absolutely no credibility when it comes to challenging credible commentators on their Brexit forecasts or impact statements. Especially when THEIR predictions Including those plastered on a red bus were not just total bollocks, but cynical lies.

 

Here is a link to the OBR website. To save you the bother, one of the relevant passages states quote, “

Impact of the Brexit trade agreement on our economy forecast

March 3rd, 2021

Our November 2020 EFO was conditioned on the broad-brush assumption that the additional trade barriers associated with leaving the EU would reduce the long-run productivity of the UK by around 4 per cent.^a The full impact was assumed to take 15 years to be realised. Around twofifths of the 4 per cent impact has effectively already occurred as a result of uncertainty since the referendum weighing on investment and capital deepening. With the terms of the deal now known, we can assess how the TCA compares with our previous assumption of a ‘typical’ FTA, and take account of the early evidence on its immediate impact.

 

https://obr.uk/box/impact-of-the-brexit-trade-agreement-on-our-economy-forecast/

 

As the underlined text shows, we are already well on the way to suffering that 4% negative impact to our economy. Interestingly, you also choose to ignore the explicit statement in that FT article I previously posted that says, “Brexit is costing the Exchequer and the country billions that the U.K. really could use”.

 

Given the Brexit-degraded economic outlook predicted by acknowledged experts that is purely attributed to Brexit and yes, compounded by COVID, I suggest you ensure you collect that £1 trolley deposit from your supermarket visit. You’re going to need it.

 

Brexit denier🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. You're frothing more than most.

 

I've noted your continued reliance on the OBR to justify your position on Brexit Armageddon. I first noticed their disastrous Economic predictions in 2012 which were quire frankly hilarious. 

 

I'm not denying the impact of Brexit on the UK economy will be negative in the short term. However, I look at things rationally, avoid paradigms and don't froth at the mouth. The world is not going to end over Brexit, we are not going to be living in a, as Remainers put it, "third world country" (Horrible racist chat). Great examples of your beloved Remainer Tory OBR getting it wrong can be seen at the blog

 

How wrong does the UK Office for Budget Responsibility have to be before it is scrapped? 

@notayesmanseconomics blog

 

The trouble with the Tory wet and Nationalist chump remainers is their inability to see the economy outside their Brexit obsessed darkened room. They've been slavering away for years now and Armageddon still isn't here. Slaver away chump, I don't need a £ for my Glasgow House Boat. We have embraced new technologies with a green twist. I'd be happy to send you some tissues to wipe away the froth though. Just PM me your address.

 

 

[WorldChampions1902]

3 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Brexit denier🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. You're frothing more than most. Your the one doing the ”frothing”. A word you use quite liberally in your posts.

 

I've noted your continued reliance on the OBR to justify your position on Brexit Armageddon. I first noticed their disastrous Economic predictions in 2012 which were quire frankly hilarious. I never used “Armageddon.” You are the one choosing to attribute that noun in relation to the quite clearly stated negative impact on the U.K. economy.

 

I'm not denying the impact of Brexit on the UK economy will be negative in the short term. Based on what evidence?  However, I look at things rationally, avoid paradigms and don't froth at the mouth. Yes you do froth, as is clear from your posts! The world is not going to end over Brexit, we finally agree on something we are not going to be living in a, as Remainers put it, "third world country" get the terminology correct - it is an EU term and it is “Third Country”. Suggest you do some reading around what it means as it has absolutely no racist connotations as you are wrongly stating. See what happens when you froth? (Horrible racist chat). Great examples of your beloved Remainer Tory OBR getting it wrong can be seen at the blog OBR are wrong? Just like the Yellowhammer Report?? But the big red bus and Leave lies were bang on? Or yet more Leave deflection and BS because they have quote, “had enough of experts”? 

 

How wrong does the UK Office for Budget Responsibility have to be before it is scrapped? 

@notayesmanseconomics blog

 

The trouble with the Tory wet and Nationalist chump remainers is their inability to see the economy outside their Brexit obsessed darkened room. They've been slavering away for years now and Armageddon - you are using that word again. Calm down dear. Frothing ain’t good for your blood pressure. still isn't here. Slaver away chump, I don't need a £ for my Glasgow House Boat. We have embraced new technologies with a green twist. I'd be happy to send you some tissues to wipe away the froth though. Looks like you need them more than me. And you are STILL frothing. Just PM me your address.

 

 

My response to your “frothing” is in red above.

[Alex Kintner]

42 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Brexit denier🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. You're frothing more than most.

 

I've noted your continued reliance on the OBR to justify your position on Brexit Armageddon. I first noticed their disastrous Economic predictions in 2012 which were quire frankly hilarious. 

 

I'm not denying the impact of Brexit on the UK economy will be negative in the short term. However, I look at things rationally, avoid paradigms and don't froth at the mouth. The world is not going to end over Brexit, we are not going to be living in a, as Remainers put it, "third world country" (Horrible racist chat). Great examples of your beloved Remainer Tory OBR getting it wrong can be seen at the blog

 

How wrong does the UK Office for Budget Responsibility have to be before it is scrapped? 

@notayesmanseconomics blog

 

The trouble with the Tory wet and Nationalist chump remainers is their inability to see the economy outside their Brexit obsessed darkened room. They've been slavering away for years now and Armageddon still isn't here. Slaver away chump, I don't need a £ for my Glasgow House Boat. We have embraced new technologies with a green twist. I'd be happy to send you some tissues to wipe away the froth though. Just PM me your address.

 

 

So are you not going to acknowledge you got your post badly wrong by assuming it was taken out of context and used incorrectly by a “mouth frothing remainer”?

[Gizmo]

19 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Correct, Ulysses. Of course there was a pent up demand for a referendum.  We had also been promised a plebiscite on the Lisbon Treat iirc and, having never really been comfortable partners with the EU, the referendum was certainly an inevitability.  Other countries did get to vote on treaty changes - Ireland and Denmark, off the top of my head, rejected the changes and were simply instructed to vote again, in true EU style.

 

Some on here are tripping themselves up trying to rewrite history and twist the evidence to, just for a change, blame everything on the "hard Tory right".

The referendum was called by Cameron to put the ERG and hard-right in the Tory party back in their boxes. He gambled, lost, and resigned. This is a fact, not a "twist of evidence". 

"He traces the Conservative rebellions that extracted successive concessions from the PM, to no avail – until he finally tried to appease his party’s Eurosceptics by promising them a referendum".
 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/banging-on-about-europe-how-the-eurosceptics-got-their-referendum/

"The EU’s growth in power and EU migration empowered Tory Euroskeptics, creating an environment inside the party that was fairly hostile to the EU. This is the environment that David Cameron faced in 2005, when he ran for the leadership of the Conservative Party. Cameron’s approach was to placate the Euroskeptics rather than challenge them — and it worked".

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/28/12033390/brexit-david-cameron-fault

The only person trying to 'rewrite history' is you, again, after being caught talking bollocks.   

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Unfortunately for the U.K. government, the fact that the NI economy is doing so well is an embarrassment to Brexit as it shows the deal up for what it is - extremely damaging to the GB economy. IMHO, this is another factor playing into what Clown shoes is up to.

Agreed.

Interesting to see Sevcovic has warned UK today that "triggering Att 16 would have serious consequences".

 

Big talks on 12 November now. 

[NANOJAMBO]

"brexit got done , and so did everyone who voted for it"..... a long listen. 

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

9 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Agreed.

Interesting to see Sevcovic has warned UK today that "triggering Att 16 would have serious consequences".

 

Big talks on 12 November now. 

Good to see the Tories retreating to safe ground.

 

Having a shit week? Sleaze allegations piling up? fingers caught in the till?

 

You need Article 16.

 

Guaranteed to distract the hard of thinking into hating them dirty Europeans and to not notice you and your mates are robbing the country blind. 

[NANOJAMBO]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Good to see the Tories retreating to safe ground.

 

Having a shit week? Sleaze allegations piling up? fingers caught in the till?

 

You need Article 16.

 

Guaranteed to distract the hard of thinking into hating them dirty Europeans and to not notice you and your mates are robbing the country blind. 

Which is kinda the gist of the clip I just posted : everything has been excused as getting brexit done (prorogue parliament, lie to the queen etc, etc ) making the Tories feel invincible/immune because all they have to do is say "brexit" and magically, people get distracted from what's really been going on. 

Now it'll be "triggering Art16" to deflect from their  latest shameful episode. 

[WorldChampions1902]

34 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

"brexit got done , and so did everyone who voted for it"..... a long listen. 

 

 

Yet another quality rant by JOB! Bang on the money as always and doesn’t suffer fools gladly. If only there were more of him. 

[NANOJAMBO]

12 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Yet another quality rant by JOB! Bang on the money as always and doesn’t suffer fools gladly. If only there were more of him. 

I'd say this one is very different from all his others (I thought he'd become pretty dull of late as he went through the same old brexit diatribes ad nauseam).

He clearly sets out what has been happening : the brexit lies , the feelings of invincibility and people being conned by the "but we're getting brexit done" mantra.

[SE16 3LN]

1 hour ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

My response to your “frothing” is in red above.

So you've got nothing but abuse. Its a damning indictment of me I know, but I once thought you were a clever guy 😂.

[WorldChampions1902]

9 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

So you've got nothing but abuse. Its a damning indictment of me I know, but I once thought you were a clever guy 😂.

Just read my response to you again and cannot see any evidence of me “abusing” you.
 

Unfortunately, your wording to me quote, “slaver away chump”, is less than respectful. So if my reply to your penultimate post has upset you, perhaps you should reflect on how you phrase future messages on here?

[JackLadd]

This fishing spat is a manufactured distraction while hundreds of migrants a day cross the channel. 850 yesterday. Johnson and Patel are all talk.

Edited November 5, 2021 by JackLadd

[The Mighty Thor]

41 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

This fishing spat is a manufactured distraction while hundreds of migrants a day cross the channel. 850 yesterday. Johnson and Patel are all talk.

Get the gun boats on em.

 

AMIRITE?

[JackLadd]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Get the gun boats on em.

 

AMIRITE?

 

If only. 

[Ked]

On 03/11/2021 at 23:10, Beni said:

 

You did vote for it though didn't you?

 

 

What have poor conditions in German meat plants got to do with the EU?

Recently on this thread the EU were being accused of making meat more expensive by being protectionist, you Brexiteers need to make up your minds which direction you're facing.

And it's a bit rich for Brexiteers to moan about environmental impacts, when the recent trade deals with Australia and New Zealand will mean more meat being transported half way round the world. Where was the concern for the environment when the Union Jack's were being waved?

No.

 

And I was pointing out that this thread just immediately blames brexit for everything.

That's why I cited similar problems in Europe.

 

This thread is now just a slanging match.

There are one or two posters who will genuinely look into points raised.

And give fair responses.

I couldnt give a shit about flags or brexiteers or remainers.

On you go with that pish.

 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Get the gun boats on em.

 

AMIRITE?

What do you suggest?

Seriously.

If 850 migrants were intercepted how many were not?

In one day.

Have you seen the conditions these migrants are under in Libya?

Being burnt by traffickers if they fail to pay .

Do you think that we are helping these desperate people by allowing their traffic.

 

There needs to be a solution that sees our wealth help them at source.

You cant just allow this .

Have a think about the numbers just for starters.

 

[Ked]

On 04/11/2021 at 00:41, Ulysses said:

 

You can't just shout "problem - Brexit - FIX - yaaaaay" over and over again and hope for the best.  I've lost count of the number of times I've read variants of this notion - treating Brexit as a cure for which there is currently no known disease.  If you want to fix plastics/global heating/cheap and nasty food production/capitalism/world hunger/illiteracy/cancer/etc (take your pick) you can't just chuck Brexit at the problem as hard as you can and hope that it sticks.

I'm not advocating brexit.

The problems being discussed were there with or without it.

On 04/11/2021 at 00:48, Ulysses said:

 

In light of the large sums of money the EU and the ECB pumped into most European economies between 2010 and 2020, and in light of the austerity regimes followed by Conservative governments in the UK over the same time period, what do you actually mean by this?

I think I'm just trying to point out that simply waving the EU flag isnt a strategy or even an argument against the UK tories.

The problems you will face as an EU citizen will likely be the same as a UK citizen.

Brexit wont make that better and might complicate things further depending on who governs.

But in general the problems of labour shortages ,meat production are a global problem.

 

I just cant post about that on thos thread because most of the time I dont get responses like yours.

Which pull me up but dont just assume and turn snide.

Its pish tbh and probably indicates political chat in general now.

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 hours ago, Gizmo said:

The referendum was called by Cameron to put the ERG and hard-right in the Tory party back in their boxes. He gambled, lost, and resigned. This is a fact, not a "twist of evidence". 

"He traces the Conservative rebellions that extracted successive concessions from the PM, to no avail – until he finally tried to appease his party’s Eurosceptics by promising them a referendum".
 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/banging-on-about-europe-how-the-eurosceptics-got-their-referendum/

"The EU’s growth in power and EU migration empowered Tory Euroskeptics, creating an environment inside the party that was fairly hostile to the EU. This is the environment that David Cameron faced in 2005, when he ran for the leadership of the Conservative Party. Cameron’s approach was to placate the Euroskeptics rather than challenge them — and it worked".

https://www.vox.com/2016/6/28/12033390/brexit-david-cameron-fault

The only person trying to 'rewrite history' is you, again, after being caught talking bollocks.   

Read Ulysses post.

The problem with your type is that you think that your opinion, if repeated often enough, morphs into fact. Very similar to Megan Markle and her own "facts".

There was, absolutely, a groundswell of support not only for holding a referendum but for leaving.

That, of course, was borne out on the night.

 

It may suit your narrative to blame Cameron but it's demonstrable nonsense. 

[The Mighty Thor]

35 minutes ago, Ked said:

What do you suggest?

Seriously.

If 850 migrants were intercepted how many were not?

In one day.

Have you seen the conditions these migrants are under in Libya?

Being burnt by traffickers if they fail to pay .

Do you think that we are helping these desperate people by allowing their traffic.

 

There needs to be a solution that sees our wealth help them at source.

You cant just allow this .

Have a think about the numbers just for starters.

 

We should take back control. 

 

It's what we voted for after all.