Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Alex Kintner]

19 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

Oh my!

3 pages of deflection and bluster incoming.

 

One for Kickback historians, is there some sort of record for a poster being handed their arse on a plate on a single thread!

Waiting to see if Enzo will admit he’s wrong?

 

“Let’s see if it’s pointless”

 

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

14 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Nah both, Tories were getting squeezed left right and centre in marginal seats.

 

Appreciate this is after the referendum but hopefully you take the point;

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/03/nigel-farages-brexit-party-saved-labour-seats-in-2019-election-analysis-finds

JJ , no offence, but we've moved on to quite an exciting moment . 😄

The salient point is Enzo's claim for  "massive support" for a brexit referendum and we've all got the popcorn out while we await his next stream of conscoiusness on the matter. 

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

lol, my ego will be just fine 🤣

😉👍🏻

[pablo]

1 minute ago, Alex Kintner said:

Maybe. It was pro-Indy for a good while bit a lot of the mud from the Scot Parl shenanigans  last year has stuck.

 

It's all a bit moot anyway as nothing is going to happen for a long by the look of things. If it ever does become a question we're asked again, I hope to **** it's answered 65/35 in favour of either side and we put all the division behind us.

 

Anyway, I'll leave you chaps to your Brexit chat...absolutely ridiculous decision. There's not much more to add. 

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Alex Kintner said:

Waiting to see if Enzo will admit he’s wrong?

 

“Let’s see if it’s pointless”

 

 

 

[Ulysses]

5 hours ago, Ked said:

Although I would also note the EU and its policies are especially economically austerity led.

 

 

In light of the large sums of money the EU and the ECB pumped into most European economies between 2010 and 2020, and in light of the austerity regimes followed by Conservative governments in the UK over the same time period, what do you actually mean by this?

[Ulysses]

17 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

From the BBC - and they wouldn't lie 🙄

 

The British Meat Processors Association (BMPA) say producers are sending beef to the Republic of Ireland amid local shortages of butchers.

Meanwhile, pork producers are set to begin sending pigs to the Netherlands for butchering and packing.

Meat exported in this way cannot be labelled as British pork for UK sale.

According to the BMPA, the move will cost an additional £1,500 for each lorry load of carcasses. This includes transport fees, as well as Brexit customs requirements, such as an export health certificate for each consignment.

 

So now we're reduced to sending scarce hgv resources to the EU to process meat and use the same scarce resource to re-import it . 

 

Er, when I last looked we had supply issues - not a shortage, just limited excess capacity - of butchers.  However, we are building up numbers again so it could be a way to get extra production going.  Though bear in mind that our total food market is approximately one fourteenth of the size of the UK market, so our contribution would be limited.

 

There's an interesting way to minimise the paperwork on shipments to and from Ireland, which is to send the stuff through Dublin, get it processed here and then shipped back from here with no paperwork via NI.  You see, there's this Protocol... ah, oops.

[NANOJAMBO]

19 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Er, when I last looked we had supply issues - not a shortage, just limited excess capacity - of butchers.  However, we are building up numbers again so it could be a way to get extra production going.  Though bear in mind that our total food market is approximately one fourteenth of the size of the UK market, so our contribution would be limited.

 

There's an interesting way to minimise the paperwork on shipments to and from Ireland, which is to send the stuff through Dublin, get it processed here and then shipped back from here with no paperwork via NI.  You see, there's this Protocol... ah, oops.

Yeah, well, like I said, the BBC wouldn't lie.🙄

 

As for the NIP, Schrodingers Cat springs to mind. 

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, Victorian said:

What's it called when you insist on others observing a higher standard of conduct to that which you personally aspire to?  

Tory?

[The Mighty Thor]

4 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

...so how the **** does this work in any way usefully for British businesses or British consumers?

Wait, what?

 

Brexit doesn't work for us?

 

But blue passports, 350 million quid.....

 

Has anyone told Johnson this?

[Roxy Hearts]

7 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

What Enzo cannot & will not accept is that

 

i) there have always been people who want independence but don't like the SNP (my dad)

 

ii) there are Scots who are totally p'd off being gaslighted by this govt (stay in the UK if you want to stay in the EU) and are now supporting independence (pretty much my entire family) but through no love of the SNP (my sister HATES the SNP). 

👍I vote SNP/Alba. I can't bring myself to vote for anyone else. I'm ex Labour but they're an atrocious party now with extremely poor leaders. Tories are Tories, consistent in their idealism! Libdems are a lying bunch of watered down Tories. No-one else registers.

[Victorian]

Gifted his own arse that often he thinks it's stalking him.

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The demand for a R E F E R E N D U M has been there for years, after each and every treaty was signed, further eroding UK sovereignty. 

FFS. Hope that gets through this time. 

I didn't know this, 

 

The Labour Party’s attempt to win the country’s 1983 election on a platform of withdrawing from the EEC resulted in failure, with the Conservative government led by Margaret Thatcher being re-elected by a considerable margin.

 

 

Brexit: These 3 Facts Explain Why the U.K. Held a Referendum | Time

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Wait, what?

 

Brexit doesn't work for us?

 

But blue passports, 350 million quid.....

 

Has anyone told Johnson this?

They are actually black. I got a new one Last December . 

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

👍I vote SNP/Alba. I can't bring myself to vote for anyone else. I'm ex Labour but they're an atrocious party now with extremely poor leaders. Tories are Tories, consistent in their idealism! Libdems are a lying bunch of watered down Tories. No-one else registers.

I voted Labour in the last Scottish election as I like the local MSP and he helped me with an issue.  That's the only reason i voted for him.  In any future UK election i would actually struggle to decide whom to vote  for . However Tory has never been an option. SNP possibly if its still my local MP Joanna Cherry ( gasp a woman ) certainly no Labour or even worse the insipid Greens or any party led by Tommy " the Tan"  Sheridan  Id probably go for one of those fringe groups like the " Monster raving looney party"  

[WorldChampions1902]

10 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

 

Lest we forget……. (Not you BTW).

 

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Lest we forget……. (Not you BTW).

 

And the Tories are so scared of the backlash from the younger population they've publicly committed to not changing the franchise for 16 Y O. Slowly, but surely, turning into the English equivalent of the GOP. 

[WorldChampions1902]

9 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

That is my experience in my immediate family. Brexit & Clownshoes is/was toxic for unionists. 

What really annoyed me though, was pointing out to Brexit-voting Scottish citizens that by voting LEAVE they were making Independence even more likely. Many of the Unionist cohort I spoke to, point blank refused to accept the implications of this on their Brexit voting intentions. Absolutely brain-dead, but consistent with Leavers views on other robust Brexit facts, forecasts and the Yellowhammer report being labelled “Project Fear”.

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Lest we forget……. (Not you BTW).

 

4 % Of people in Gibraltar ...what were they on   ? 

[WorldChampions1902]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

4 % Of people in Gibraltar ...what were they on   ? 

The Barbary apes got the vote too!

[NANOJAMBO]

38 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

What really annoyed me though, was pointing out to Brexit-voting Scottish citizens that by voting LEAVE they were making Independence even more likely. Many of the Unionist cohort I spoke to, point blank refused to accept the implications of this on their Brexit voting intentions. Absolutely brain-dead, but consistent with Leavers views on other robust Brexit facts, forecasts and the Yellowhammer report being labelled “Project Fear”.

That's what happens when you have a non-binding referendum in which (some) people think there's  no consequences in a protest vote.  Rinse & repeat. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

45 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

The Barbary apes got the vote too!

 

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

And the Tories are so scared of the backlash from the younger population they've publicly committed to not changing the franchise for 16 Y O. Slowly, but surely, turning into the English equivalent of the GOP. 

 

I don't think you are far off to be honest. 

I think we are reaching another cyclic point in UK history:

 

We've had the Tories run the country into the ground in countless ways - much like the 80s/90s.

Recession by the back door (Brexit and Covid putting a sledgehammer through the economy) much like the 90s.

The modern version of the high % rates is the rapid % increase in Gas/Electricity costs much like the 80s.

Northern Ireland is a mess politically much like the 80s. 

 

We're approaching the point where people will turn on the Tories if Labour gets its act together. 

 

This Union needs revitalised - flag shaggers need not apply, people who can bring change such as Proportional Representation and potentially opening up voters to 16-17yr olds would go a long way to changing the outlook politically from elitism to more pragmatic societal improvements.

 

If not we'll see more Scots look to Indieref2 as an escape route, with Brexit and mismanagement the Tories have financially ironically levelled up the worst case financial hardship of Independence.

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

The Barbary apes got the vote too!

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Lest we forget……. (Not you BTW).

 

 

The last two are bollocks. Anyone who based their vote on that type of stuff shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway.

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

They are actually black. I got a new one Last December . 

I voted Labour in the last Scottish election as I like the local MSP and he helped me with an issue.  That's the only reason i voted for him.  In any future UK election i would actually struggle to decide whom to vote  for . However Tory has never been an option. SNP possibly if its still my local MP Joanna Cherry ( gasp a woman ) certainly no Labour or even worse the insipid Greens or any party led by Tommy " the Tan"  Sheridan  Id probably go for one of those fringe groups like the " Monster raving looney party"  

👍fair enough James. 

[pablo]

2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

What really annoyed me though, was pointing out to Brexit-voting Scottish citizens that by voting LEAVE they were making Independence even more likely. Many of the Unionist cohort I spoke to, point blank refused to accept the implications of this on their Brexit voting intentions. Absolutely brain-dead, but consistent with Leavers views on other robust Brexit facts, forecasts and the Yellowhammer report being labelled “Project Fear”.

 

The thing is though. If you were to look at the quadrants of voting patterns across both the Scottish and EU referendum, the largest percentage resided in the Remain Remain for both unions box.

 

Also there is a school of thought that suggests that the UK leaving the EU makes Scexit even less likely. As now, there's no hiding place from the topics of hard borders, the CTA, trade of financial services with rUK in GBP?  and being out of both Unions etc.

 

That's going to be an interesting sales pitch if it ever does start in earnest. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by pablo

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

The last two are bollocks. Anyone who based their vote on that type of stuff shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway.

 

 

[Taffin]

9 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

 

 

 

Expand?

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

The last two are bollocks. Anyone who based their vote on that type of stuff shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway.

Care to clarify? There are two ways of (mis) interpreting your post and I am swaying towards the rational one.

[Beni]

34 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

The thing is though. If you were to look at the quadrants of voting patterns across both the Scottish and EU referendum, the largest percentage resided in the Remain Remain for both unions box.

 

Also there is a school of thought that suggests that the UK leaving the EU makes Scexit even less likely. As now, there's no hiding place from the topics of hard borders, the CTA, trade of financial services with rUK in GBP?  and being out of both Unions etc.

 

That's going to be an interesting sales pitch if it ever does start in earnest. 

 

That's a school of thought I subscribe to.

I think it was a blunder for the SNP and Labour to defeat Theresa May's deal which included the Irish backstop, which iirc would have effectively meant remaining in the customs union, so in the event of independence there'd be no hard border at Hadrian's wall.

It would have also kept May limping along in power and stopped the Brexiteers getting in with an 80 seat majority.

All water under the bridge now, but imo it makes a future yes vote harder to achieve.

[Taffin]

7 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Care to clarify? There are two ways of (mis) interpreting your post and I am swaying towards the rational one.

 

I'm obviously missing one of the ways of interpreting. Anyone who thought the bus stuff and lies were anything other than a whole load of tosh is stitched up the back.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Taffin

[WorldChampions1902]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm obviously missing one of the ways of interpreting. Anyone who thought the bus stuff and lies were anything other than a whole load of tosh is stitched up the back.

Which is the answer I was expecting from you. Thanks for clarifying.

[NANOJAMBO]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm obviously missing one of the ways of interpreting. Anyone who thought the bus stuff and lies were anything other than a whole load of tosh is stitched up the back.

Well I met a few undecideds who voted for brexit on the basis of it. They didn't care about brexit/the EU  but thought  they'd help the NHS - as Dom Cummings predicted  would happen when he thought up the idea. 

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm obviously missing one of the ways of interpreting. Anyone who thought the bus stuff and lies were anything other than a whole load of tosh is stitched up the back.

 

Taffin, look down any busy shopping street and at least 5% of the adults are stitched up the back.  The guff about Turkey and money for the NHS didn't have to persuade everyone; it just had to sway some people.

 

While I've lost count of the number of Enzo's points of failure on this thread, he is right in one key respect.  When the referendum was held, the Leave side won.  That could not have happened without some form of pent-up demand, even if that didn't show up in polls.  The fact is that the Leave option was picked by a majority at the moment that counted.

 

This thread is meant to be about what really matters.  That's not Brexit itself, nor is it Scotland's constitutional status.  It's about the deal done between the UK and the EU - a deal which is a metaphor for your ineffective, corrupt, slogan-driven Government and the feckless, lazy, dishonest lump who chairs it. 

[NANOJAMBO]

13 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

This thread is meant to be about what really matters.  That's not Brexit itself, nor is it Scotland's constitutional status.  It's about the deal done between the UK and the EU - a deal which is a metaphor for your ineffective, corrupt, slogan-driven Government and the feckless, lazy, dishonest lump who chairs it. 

[WorldChampions1902]

16 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

This thread is meant to be about what really matters.  That's not Brexit itself, nor is it Scotland's constitutional status.  It's about the deal done between the UK and the EU - a deal which is a metaphor for your ineffective, corrupt, slogan-driven Government and the feckless, lazy, dishonest lump who chairs it. 

Amen.

[Ulysses]

Angela Merkel is awarded the Grand Croix of the Legion d'honneur by France, and walks the streets of Beaune to the applause and cheers of French people.  The President of France greets the Chancellor of Germany with the words "Frankreich liebt Dich".

 

Meanwhile the UK is on the other side of the diplomacy square, horsing down its ninth pint of cheap and strong European lager, drunkenly slobbering out "Krauts, Frogs, faaaack, Inger-laaaand, Inger-laaaand, Inger-laaaand" and trying to decide which piece of café furniture it's going to pick up and chuck at a window.

 

Churchill must be spinning in his grave.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Angela Merkel is awarded the Grand Croix of the Legion d'honneur by France, and walks the streets of Beaune to the applause and cheers of French people.  The President of France greets the Chancellor of Germany with the words "Frankreich liebt Dich".

 

Meanwhile the UK is on the other side of the diplomacy square, horsing down its ninth pint of cheap and strong European lager, drunkenly slobbering out "Krauts, Frogs, faaaack, Inger-laaaand, Inger-laaaand, Inger-laaaand" and trying to decide which piece of café furniture it's going to pick up and chuck at a window.

 

Churchill must be spinning in his grave.

 

Aye but aye but we were never really welcome in the club,  apparently.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

The thing is though. If you were to look at the quadrants of voting patterns across both the Scottish and EU referendum, the largest percentage resided in the Remain Remain for both unions box.

 

Also there is a school of thought that suggests that the UK leaving the EU makes Scexit even less likely. As now, there's no hiding place from the topics of hard borders, the CTA, trade of financial services with rUK in GBP?  and being out of both Unions etc.

 

That's going to be an interesting sales pitch if it ever does start in earnest. 

Exactly. I think its less likely as you can bet that any new campaign from NO will be focussing strongly on " better together" even more now that we are no longer in the EU  . It will play to those worried about to the economic uncertainty of Indy. 

42 minutes ago, Beni said:

 

That's a school of thought I subscribe to.

I think it was a blunder for the SNP and Labour to defeat Theresa May's deal which included the Irish backstop, which iirc would have effectively meant remaining in the customs union, so in the event of independence there'd be no hard border at Hadrian's wall.

It would have also kept May limping along in power and stopped the Brexiteers getting in with an 80 seat majority.

All water under the bridge now, but imo it makes a future yes vote harder to achieve.

Correct

21 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Taffin, look down any busy shopping street and at least 5% of the adults are stitched up the back.  The guff about Turkey and money for the NHS didn't have to persuade everyone; it just had to sway some people.

 

While I've lost count of the number of Enzo's points of failure on this thread, he is right in one key respect.  When the referendum was held, the Leave side won.  That could not have happened without some form of pent-up demand, even if that didn't show up in polls.  The fact is that the Leave option was picked by a majority at the moment that counted.

 

This thread is meant to be about what really matters.  That's not Brexit itself, nor is it Scotland's constitutional status.  It's about the deal done between the UK and the EU - a deal which is a metaphor for your ineffective, corrupt, slogan-driven Government and the feckless, lazy, dishonest lump who chairs it. 

Great post 

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

Angela Merkel is awarded the Grand Croix of the Legion d'honneur by France, and walks the streets of Beaune to the applause and cheers of French people.  The President of France greets the Chancellor of Germany with the words "Frankreich liebt Dich".

 

Meanwhile the UK is on the other side of the diplomacy square, horsing down its ninth pint of cheap and strong European lager, drunkenly slobbering out "Krauts, Frogs, faaaack, Inger-laaaand, Inger-laaaand, Inger-laaaand" and trying to decide which piece of café furniture it's going to pick up and chuck at a window.

 

Churchill must be spinning in his grave.

Savage

[Ulysses]

4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Aye but aye but we were never really welcome in the club,  apparently.  

 

Professor Brigid Laffan (who I think may have been quoted earlier in the thread) tweeted today asking who would have thought at the end of WW2 that 75 years later the relationship between France and Germany would be so much better than the relationship between France and the UK.  It's a remarkable turnaround, most of it in the last 10 years.

[Gizmo]

39 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

...While I've lost count of the number of Enzo's points of failure on this thread, he is right in one key respect.  When the referendum was held, the Leave side won.  That could not have happened without some form of pent-up demand, even if that didn't show up in polls.  The fact is that the Leave option was picked by a majority at the moment that counted...

Using highly illegal and dubious tactics and dodgy money to single-out the people who just, just tipped it over the edge. There was no seething demand for an exit from Europe until it was stoked up using the same methods that have spread far right sentiment, Q-Anon, anti-vaxx conspiracies. 

The result should never have been enough to implement massive constitutional change. I don't accept for a second that our clownshoes wearing flag-shagger was right about this and his attempts to retrospectively claim a massive underswelling of anti-EU sentiment should not go unchallenged - and it hasn't btw, posters have already dismantled that claim with stats showing how unimportant the EU question was until it was stupidly stoked up by the disastrous Cameron trying to be far cleverer than he actually was. 

Even the champions of Brexit - ie our lovely Tory grifters BoJo & Gove, who saw the exposure and campaign as a chance to take power of a divided Tory party, did not expect to win. So, no, there was NOT pent-up demand - the Cambridge Analytica scandal basically ensured that enough money was spent on data-mining to allow them to target enough xenophobic morons to edge the vote. Illegally. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Gizmo

[NANOJAMBO]

5 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Professor Brigid Laffan (who I think may have been quoted earlier in the thread) tweeted today asking who would have thought at the end of WW2 that 75 years later the relationship between France and Germany would be so much better than the relationship between France and the UK.  It's a remarkable turnaround, most of it in the last 10 years.

It might've been me as I follow her on twitter and she is a brilliant source on the current NIP dispute. 

As regards the Franco-German friendship : I can't help but think back to the days of German re-unification when Thatcher was terrified of a Super Germany/France alliance. But here we are...

[Victorian]

15 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Professor Brigid Laffan (who I think may have been quoted earlier in the thread) tweeted today asking who would have thought at the end of WW2 that 75 years later the relationship between France and Germany would be so much better than the relationship between France and the UK.  It's a remarkable turnaround, most of it in the last 10 years.

 

Then again,  Charles de Gaulle still haunts the bitter memories of a good many.

[WorldChampions1902]

22 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

It might've been me as I follow her on twitter and she is a brilliant source on the current NIP dispute. 

As regards the Franco-German friendship : I can't help but think back to the days of German re-unification when Thatcher was terrified of a Super Germany/France alliance. But here we are...

She had good reason.

 

Unlike the U.K., big hitters in the EU embraced the European project and subsequently reaped the rewards. Whilst the EU is not perfect, it surely must be obvious by now that it is better to be in than out and that way shape and influence the direction of the EU.

 

There are some remarkable stats that just never got an airing this side of the Channel that certainly pose serious questions. Here is an interesting one……….

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

Professor Brigid Laffan (who I think may have been quoted earlier in the thread) tweeted today asking who would have thought at the end of WW2 that 75 years later the relationship between France and Germany would be so much better than the relationship between France and the UK.  It's a remarkable turnaround, most of it in the last 10 years.

and 75 years later the answer to that from the flag shaggers would of course be.........

 

If it wasn't for us they'd still be speaking German.

[The Mighty Thor]

55 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Using highly illegal and dubious tactics and dodgy money to single-out the people who just, just tipped it over the edge. There was no seething demand for an exit from Europe until it was stoked up using the same methods that have spread far right sentiment, Q-Anon, anti-vaxx conspiracies. 

The result should never have been enough to implement massive constitutional change. I don't accept for a second that our clownshoes wearing flag-shagger was right about this and his attempts to retrospectively claim a massive underswelling of anti-EU sentiment should not go unchallenged - and it hasn't btw, posters have already dismantled that claim with stats showing how unimportant the EU question was until it was stupidly stoked up by the disastrous Cameron trying to be far cleverer than he actually was. 

Even the champions of Brexit - ie our lovely Tory grifters BoJo & Gove, who saw the exposure and campaign as a chance to take power of a divided Tory party, did not expect to win. So, no, there was NOT pent-up demand - the Cambridge Analytica scandal basically ensured that enough money was spent on data-mining to allow them to target enough xenophobic morons to edge the vote. Illegally. 

the harvesting of data and the use of it to target voters was first used in the Indy Ref of 2014, used to better effect in the EU ref of 2016 and really honed to near perfection to return the Eton Mess in 2019

 

The right/far right use of social media and in particular their targeting of the easily led on Facebook is both quite an achievement of technology and the utter stupidity of anyone that takes their political news from Facebook. 

[Ulysses]

59 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

Using highly illegal and dubious tactics and dodgy money to single-out the people who just, just tipped it over the edge. There was no seething demand for an exit from Europe until it was stoked up using the same methods that have spread far right sentiment, Q-Anon, anti-vaxx conspiracies. 

The result should never have been enough to implement massive constitutional change. I don't accept for a second that our clownshoes wearing flag-shagger was right about this and his attempts to retrospectively claim a massive underswelling of anti-EU sentiment should not go unchallenged - and it hasn't btw, posters have already dismantled that claim with stats showing how unimportant the EU question was until it was stupidly stoked up by the disastrous Cameron trying to be far cleverer than he actually was. 

Even the champions of Brexit - ie our lovely Tory grifters BoJo & Gove, who saw the exposure and campaign as a chance to take power of a divided Tory party, did not expect to win. So, no, there was NOT pent-up demand - the Cambridge Analytica scandal basically ensured that enough money was spent on data-mining to allow them to target enough xenophobic morons to edge the vote. Illegally. 

 

Nope, the fact is that the kind of tactics that you describe only work at the margins. The UK has always had a substantial number of voters who were somewhere between EU-hesitant and EU-sceptic.  There is evidence of that right back to 1975 when a third of voters voted against remaining in membership of the EEC.  So the tactics you describe - whether legal or not - did no more than to capitalise on pent-up sentiment that already existed.  And opinion polls on the question of the UK's membership of the EU had shown Leave majorities as far back as September 2010.  Even in the run-in to the Scottish independence referendum in September 2014, when EU membership was bandied about as a reason to vote No, there were four YouGov polls in a row showing a statistical dead heat on the question of the UK's continued membership of the EU - the four polls were:

 

June 29-30 Remain +1%, undecided 21%

July 13-14 Remain +3%, undecided 21%

Aug 10-11 Remain +2%, undecided 22%

Aug 25-26 Remain +1%, undecided 19%

 

The YouGov poll on August 25-26 showed a massive discrepancy between Scotland and England/Wales.  Across the UK, the poll showed 41-40 in favour of Remain, with 19% undecided.  In Scotland, the poll showed 55-30 in favour of Remain, with 15% undecided.  The Scottish figures have a higher margin of error because of the small sample size, but the same discrepancy appeared throughout that summer.

 

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ylfpbtmctf/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-260814.pdf

 

 

[Ulysses]

28 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

and 75 years later the answer to that from the flag shaggers would of course be.........

 

If it wasn't for us they'd still be speaking German.

 

As many of my friends say, if it wasn't for you we'd still be speaking Irish. 

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

As many of my friends say, if it wasn't for you we'd still be speaking Irish. 

You lucky feckers got them out. 

 

We're locked in steerage aboard the RMS Titanic. 

[Alex Kintner]

2 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

Expand?

I can see others have already covered the point  👍🏻

Edited November 4, 2021 by Alex Kintner