Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Beni]

31 minutes ago, Ked said:

No.

 

And I was pointing out that this thread just immediately blames brexit for everything.

That's why I cited similar problems in Europe.

 

This thread is now just a slanging match.

There are one or two posters who will genuinely look into points raised.

And give fair responses.

I couldnt give a shit about flags or brexiteers or remainers.

On you go with that pish.

 

 

If you say you didn't vote for Brexit I'll believe you.

From what I've noticed you seem to be defending it more often than not, and I have noticed you have a similar posting style to a now defunct pro Brexit poster. (I know you said you've had another account on here in the past) 

 

If you feel there needs to be a more balanced view of Brexit on this thread then you're free to list all the positive outcomes it has given rise to, and they can be discussed.

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

16 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

And yet.  In this country we pool our sovereignty with others.  They get to influence our laws, and we get to influence theirs.  And it works pretty well.  It has certainly increased both the size of our economy and the reach of our diplomacy.  In any case, power in the EU is very distributed and very decentralised. 

 

We can all control our borders.  All the UK did by leaving was deny access to the labour market to EU citizens (from 24 of the 27 at any rate), while simultaneously cutting access to those labour markets for British people.  As regards the world outside the EU, the UK brought in a lot of people from the Southern Asian countries it previously colonised, while France didn't, instead taking in people from its former North African colonies.  France or the UK didn't wait for the EU to dictate that, and could cheerfully have told the EU to feck off if it had tried.

 

As for money, the UK could always control its own currency, as can Denmark.  Technically, Sweden, Bulgaria, Croatia, Poland, Hungary, Romania and the Czech Republic are obliged to adopt the euro, but because of a loophole in the rules (some say deliberately planted there by the EU) membership is actually voluntary.

 

Ireland single-handedly negotiated changes to major constitutional frameworks in the EU over the years.  So did the UK, Sweden, Denmark and others.  All of those countries and all of the other members regularly and repeatedly shaped, negotiated and changed the laws of the EU month in and month out over the years.  All of those countries were independent when doing so.  All of them still are. 

 

"Brussels rule" is a shibboleth.

I disagree with a lot of what you say, Ulysses, but respect your fair-minded and respectful posting style.

Your first paragraph could easily have described the UK and the constituent nations.

Most of the decision making in the EU rests in the hands of their Politburo while the EU parliament is a non-proposing chamber They can vote on bills that are proposed by the Council but, even at that, can be overruled. 

I support the view , espoused by Alex Neil and Jim Sillars, that you can't be independent AND be an EU member.

True independence means being in charge of all your rules, controlling all your money and borders, with your judges being the final arbiter.

That is not possible with EU membership and, arguably, not wise in a global interconnected,  modern world.

Greece most certainly was not "independent" when it was ordered to make swingeing public sector cuts, by Brussels.

Nowadays imo," interdependent" would describe the status of EU members.

[Gizmo]

15 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Read Ulysses post.

The problem with your type is that you think that your opinion, if repeated often enough, morphs into fact. Very similar to Megan Markle and her own "facts".

There was, absolutely, a groundswell of support not only for holding a referendum but for leaving.

That, of course, was borne out on the night.

 

It may suit your narrative to blame Cameron but it's demonstrable nonsense. 

We knew at the time what Cameron was up to, and I backed up my post with contemporary evidence. What do you have - Megan Markle. 🙄 

If there was such a groundswell of support for leaving, it wouldn't have been a marginal result that needed to be pushed over the gain line by cheating, would it? 

 

[Alex Kintner]

29 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Read Ulysses post.

The problem with your type is that you think that your opinion, if repeated often enough, morphs into fact. Very similar to Megan Markle and her own "facts".

There was, absolutely, a groundswell of support not only for holding a referendum but for leaving.

That, of course, was borne out on the night.

 

It may suit your narrative to blame Cameron but it's demonstrable nonsense. 

The only nonsense is yours. Care to address the FACT that the Ipso Mori poll stated only 8% of people were interested in the EU or Brexit or are you just going to continue ignoring it and repeating your opinion ad nauseam and hoping it morphs into fact?

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Alex Kintner said:

The only nonsense is yours. Care to address the FACT that the Ipso Mori poll stated only 8% of people were interested in the EU or Brexit or are you just going to continue ignoring it and repeating your opinion ad nauseam and hoping it morphs into fact?

Don't use my words or phrases without permission,  Alex.  Perhaps you are unaware of plagiarism rules in academia?

 

Back to the point, you are citimg one single poll when you've been presented with numerous polls and by election results, proving the groundswell. 

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

What do you suggest?

Seriously.

If 850 migrants were intercepted how many were not?

In one day.

Have you seen the conditions these migrants are under in Libya?

Being burnt by traffickers if they fail to pay .

Do you think that we are helping these desperate people by allowing their traffic.

 

There needs to be a solution that sees our wealth help them at source.

You cant just allow this .

Have a think about the numbers just for starters.

 

Leavers had the ‘solution’ to the Channel problem - Vote Brexit! Remember?

 

”Being burnt by traffickers” as you intimate, seems a damn good reason to escape to the U.K., but you seem to believe otherwise?

 

Without question, many of the refugees on those Channel dinghies have every reason to escape. And most importantly, it is NOT illegal for refugees to come to the U.K. to seek asylum.

 

I agree that ideally, the solution should see our wealth support these individuals in their home countries. Instead, the U.K. cut its Foreign Aid budget by a swingeing 30% in July!

 

Nobody is “allowing this”. What is happening is that we are observing Maritime and International law - for now. That is what any decent, law-abiding society and government should do. Sadly, the latter doesn’t so watch this space.

[Alex Kintner]

21 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Don't use my words or phrases without permission,  Alex.  Perhaps you are unaware of plagiarism rules in academia?

 

Back to the point, you are citimg one single poll when you've been presented with numerous polls and by election results, proving the groundswell. 

The Ipso Mori polling was done monthly over a period of 22 years. It’s the single best indicator we have of the public’s interest/lack of interest   in EU/Brexit over that time period. Most importantly it shows that at the time when the manifesto commitment was made by David Cameron the level of ”groundswell” from the British public was at 8%. I think it’s fair to conclude therefore that it was not the major factor behind him making the manifesto pledge and it was, as pretty much every political commentator has suggested, an attempt to deal with the eurosceptics in the Tory party.

The election results you provided were well after the manifesto commitment. 
 

In the light of overwhelming factual evidence and overwhelmingly similar conclusions from journalists and commentators from across  the political spectrum I’d hope you’d have the grace to admit that the only “groundswell” of interest in Brexit was in your own head.

 

[Taffin]

Finally experienced empty shelves. Crisps low on certain lines at Co-op and Sainsbury's.

 

There was plenty other options tbf.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Ked said:

I'm not advocating brexit.

The problems being discussed were there with or without it.

I think I'm just trying to point out that simply waving the EU flag isnt a strategy or even an argument against the UK tories.

The problems you will face as an EU citizen will likely be the same as a UK citizen.

Brexit wont make that better and might complicate things further depending on who governs.

But in general the problems of labour shortages ,meat production are a global problem.

 

I just cant post about that on thos thread because most of the time I dont get responses like yours.

Which pull me up but dont just assume and turn snide.

Its pish tbh and probably indicates political chat in general now.

 

 

 

I highlighted this in bold because you're quite right.  I asked the question I did because a lot of people express this idea of the EU being responsible for "austerity" policies, and that really isn't the case.  The EU doesn't have enough power and influence over spending and taxation to do either austerity or giveaways - only a tiny fraction of government spending in the EU is done by the EU institutions.

 

What the EU did do back in the first half of the 2010s was to get money lent to five countries whose governments were unable to borrow on the open markets (Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Spain and Cyprus).  In return for that lending, which was at preferential interest rates, those countries had to readjust their taxation and spending policies to balance their books.

 

Because the EU/ECB and the IMF lent that money, they were blamed for the readjustments that countries had to make.  But what the people who hand out that blame forget is that those countries would have had to make those readjustments anyway even if the money hadn't been lent.  Not only that, but without any borrowed money the readjustments would have been much nastier and the austerity much worse.  The Exchequers of those countries were empty, plain and simple, and they'd have had no choice but to hike taxes and cut spending.

 

So in fact what the EU/ECB/IMF did - but mostly the EU and ECB - was to pump over half a trillion euro into the public finances of those five countries so that they'd have more time to get their houses in order.  And for all five that worked, even in Greece which had the worst public finances and the most difficult adjustment.

 

So what really happened - but it's not popular or fashionable to say so - is that whatever austerity those countries might have had was caused not by the EU but by their own governments.  And in truth, what the EU and the ECB did was to give those countries the closest thing possible to a "soft landing" in very difficult circumstances.

 

 

[Ked]

9 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I highlighted this in bold because you're quite right.  I asked the question I did because a lot of people express this idea of the EU being responsible for "austerity" policies, and that really isn't the case.  The EU doesn't have enough power and influence over spending and taxation to do either austerity or giveaways - only a tiny fraction of government spending in the EU is done by the EU institutions.

 

What the EU did do back in the first half of the 2010s was to get money lent to five countries whose governments were unable to borrow on the open markets (Ireland, Greece, Portugal, Spain and Cyprus).  In return for that lending, which was at preferential interest rates, those countries had to readjust their taxation and spending policies to balance their books.

 

Because the EU/ECB and the IMF lent that money, they were blamed for the readjustments that countries had to make.  But what the people who hand out that blame forget is that those countries would have had to make those readjustments anyway even if the money hadn't been lent.  Not only that, but without any borrowed money the readjustments would have been much nastier and the austerity much worse.  The Exchequers of those countries were empty, plain and simple, and they'd have had no choice but to hike taxes and cut spending.

 

So in fact what the EU/ECB/IMF did - but mostly the EU and ECB - was to pump over half a trillion euro into the public finances of those five countries so that they'd have more time to get their houses in order.  And for all five that worked, even in Greece which had the worst public finances and the most difficult adjustment.

 

So what really happened - but it's not popular or fashionable to say so - is that whatever austerity those countries might have had was caused not by the EU but by their own governments.  And in truth, what the EU and the ECB did was to give those countries the closest thing possible to a "soft landing" in very difficult circumstances.

 

 

But isnt it fair to say that austerity economics fails?

And that Keynes  type economics as shown through the pandemic has a better impact.In a sense the bail out by the EU was but its constraints as practised by Cameron's govt was brutal.

No doubt the EU couldnt allow the shitshow in Greece to continue.

Although tbf I haven't checked out how that's been working out.

 

Anyway I think I was just trying to expand the arguments into what the real problems are.

And tbh I just find that on here posters think that being a part of the EU would mean we wouldn't have them.

And I'm wondering if there is any real political control democratically anymore.

Anyway im going to bow out for tonight as im posting a bit of nonsense 😂

On the hoof kind of thing .

Cheers though

[Enzo Chiefo]

43 minutes ago, Alex Kintner said:

The Ipso Mori polling was done monthly over a period of 22 years. It’s the single best indicator we have of the public’s interest/lack of interest   in EU/Brexit over that time period. Most importantly it shows that at the time when the manifesto commitment was made by David Cameron the level of ”groundswell” from the British public was at 8%. I think it’s fair to conclude therefore that it was not the major factor behind him making the manifesto pledge and it was, as pretty much every political commentator has suggested, an attempt to deal with the eurosceptics in the Tory party.

The election results you provided were well after the manifesto commitment. 
 

In the light of overwhelming factual evidence and overwhelmingly similar conclusions from journalists and commentators from across  the political spectrum I’d hope you’d have the grace to admit that the only “groundswell” of interest in Brexit was in your own head.

 

No.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I disagree with a lot of what you say, Ulysses, but respect your fair-minded and respectful posting style.

Your first paragraph could easily have described the UK and the constituent nations.

Most of the decision making in the EU rests in the hands of their Politburo while the EU parliament is a non-proposing chamber They can vote on bills that are proposed by the Council but, even at that, can be overruled. 

I support the view , espoused by Alex Neil and Jim Sillars, that you can't be independent AND be an EU member.

True independence means being in charge of all your rules, controlling all your money and borders, with your judges being the final arbiter.

That is not possible with EU membership and, arguably, not wise in a global interconnected,  modern world.

Greece most certainly was not "independent" when it was ordered to make swingeing public sector cuts, by Brussels.

Nowadays imo," interdependent" would describe the status of EU members.

 

The last bit that I've highlighted is an inevitable effect of pooled sovereignty.  As I've mentioned already, power in the EU is very distributed and very decentralised, and most of it rests in the hands of individual member states.  If you don't like the idea of a European superstate, that's a good thing.  On the other hand, if you don't like cumbersome decision-making, that's a bad thing.

 

I've just posted a few words about the bailout process, so I won't repeat everything in that.  The European Union (with some assistance from the IMF) made €321 billion available to Greece, without which the lights would have gone out, industry and business would have ground to a halt with no money whatsoever in the banking system, and public services and a functioning government would simply have stopped.  People seem to forget just how close to anarchy and chaos Greece was - bear in mind that the government was hours away from not being able to pay the wages of the army and the police.  Successive Greek governments blew the country's public finances to hell, and brought austerity on their own people.  All the EU did was to soften the blow as much as could be done in the circumstances.

 

In a global interconnected, modern world, did EU membership really stop the UK from being right at the leading edge as a trading power?  EU membership didn't stop Germany from being twice the exporter that the UK is.  Nor did it stop France from matching the UK as an exporter, even though France doesn't have the advantage of having the world's leading language of commerce as its native tongue.  Nor did EU membership stop the Netherlands from approaching the UK's levels of exports even though the Dutch population is only a quarter of the UK's.  In fact, those countries would argue that their membership of the EU allowed them to capitalise on whatever strengths they already had and become even stronger. 

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, Ked said:

But isnt it fair to say that austerity economics fails?

 

 

Yes.  But isn't that why governments need to be careful with their public finances so they don't land themselves and their people in a tight corner?

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No.

Quelle surprise 🙄

[JudyJudyJudy]

37 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Finally experienced empty shelves. Crisps low on certain lines at Co-op and Sainsbury's.

 

There was plenty other options tbf.

Sorry to hear this traumatic news 

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Sorry to hear this traumatic news 

 

My Tesco own-brand cheap as bejaysus thick cut marmalade is back, though, so all's well.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

My Tesco own-brand cheap as bejaysus thick cut marmalade is back, though, so all's well.

 

I remember the panic I was in when I couldn’t get hold of Sainsbury’s camomile tea. !! Talk about “ requiem for a dream “ ! 😳

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I remember the panic I was in when I couldn’t get hold of Sainsbury’s camomile tea. !! Talk about “ requiem for a dream “ ! 😳

 

Jaysus, camomile tea is a tad posher than my cheap marmalade.  In fairness, I do insist on buying Tesco's "Finest" lemon curd.  Funny how that never went missing after Brexit.

[NANOJAMBO]

Just now, Ulysses said:

 

Jaysus, camomile tea is a tad posher than my cheap marmalade.  In fairness, I do insist on buying Tesco's "Finest" lemon curd.  Funny how that never went missing after Brexit.

Get yerself along to Aldi - Clementine curd. Unbelievable. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Jaysus, camomile tea is a tad posher than my cheap marmalade.  In fairness, I do insist on buying Tesco's "Finest" lemon curd.  Funny how that never went missing after Brexit.

It’s not expensive at all . I started drinking it as I was drinking too much coffee and getting headaches with it and not enjoying it . I didn’t want normal tea and tried a few . Peppermint and others  , well gave me the boak ! Lol camomile is great as you can have it cold or hot . 

[Ulysses]

8 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Get yerself along to Aldi - Clementine curd. Unbelievable. 

 

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

It’s not expensive at all . I started drinking it as I was drinking too much coffee and getting headaches with it and not enjoying it . I didn’t want normal tea and tried a few . Peppermint and others  , well gave me the boak ! Lol camomile is great as you can have it cold or hot . 

 

Bad news - this is off topic.

 

Good news - this beats talking about the Brexit deal. 

[NANOJAMBO]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Bad news - this is off topic.

 

Good news - this beats talking about the Brexit deal. 

And Yorks CC , Tory Lies, 'Rona 

I'm having a night off & a bottle of wine. 

😄

[Ulysses]

5 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

And Yorks CC , Tory Lies, 'Rona 

I'm having a night off & a bottle of wine. 

😄

 

I'm on a non-alcoholic diet for the moment.

 

I blame the EU. 

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Alex Kintner said:

The Ipso Mori polling was done monthly over a period of 22 years. It’s the single best indicator we have of the public’s interest/lack of interest   in EU/Brexit over that time period. Most importantly it shows that at the time when the manifesto commitment was made by David Cameron the level of ”groundswell” from the British public was at 8%. I think it’s fair to conclude therefore that it was not the major factor behind him making the manifesto pledge and it was, as pretty much every political commentator has suggested, an attempt to deal with the eurosceptics in the Tory party.

The election results you provided were well after the manifesto commitment. 
 

In the light of overwhelming factual evidence and overwhelmingly similar conclusions from journalists and commentators from across  the political spectrum I’d hope you’d have the grace to admit that the only “groundswell” of interest in Brexit was in your own head.

 

Well said.

He's an absolute fanatic who makes the most outrageous statements ("massive" demand for a referendum) which he couldn't back up and then slunk away when that post was put up. But here he is spamming the board again after licking his wounds. I admire your indefatigability.

[NANOJAMBO]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I'm on a non-alcoholic diet for the moment.

 

I blame the EU. 

Off topic !! 😆

[JudyJudyJudy]

27 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Bad news - this is off topic.

 

Good news - this beats talking about the Brexit deal. 

😂 true 😂

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Alex Kintner said:

Quelle surprise 🙄

Are you going to retract your mendacious claims?🤔

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Good to see the Tories retreating to safe ground.

 

Having a shit week? Sleaze allegations piling up? fingers caught in the till?

 

You need Article 16.

 

Guaranteed to distract the hard of thinking into hating them dirty Europeans and to not notice you and your mates are robbing the country blind. 

Meanwhile,  wee Mrs Murrell stalks POTUS, a saltire in one hand,  camera phone in the other, desperate to add to her selfie collection. 

Meanwhile,  the big boys discuss realistic options to reduce a cyclical climate issue, without impoverishing the population with "green " taxes.

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Alex Kintner said:

Quelle surprise 🙄

And the polls from 2010 that showed Leave majorities? Mmmm🤔

[NANOJAMBO]

18 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And the polls from 2010 that showed Leave majorities? Mmmm🤔

So you DID do some googling finally !! 

 

Well done !! 

 

 

You missed this one ? 

 

https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-32/europe.aspx

 

Faced with the simple choice between staying or withdrawing, 35% now say they want Britain to withdraw from the EU. (so, that's 2-1 not in favour of leaving ?)

 

When presented with a wider range of options, voters’ most popular choice, backed by 38%, is to stay in the EU but to try and reduce its powers.

 

"Massive" support for  a referendum , did you say ? 

 

And let's not forget...

 

Immigration matters

Opposition to membership of the EU is particularly high among those who are concerned about immigration.

Around half of those who think immigration is bad for the economy want to leave the EU
compared with around one in ten of those who think it has been good for Britain’s economic fortunes.

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

28 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

And the polls from 2010 that showed Leave majorities? Mmmm🤔

Sources ? 

[NANOJAMBO]

5 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

 

There was, absolutely, a groundswell of support not only for holding a referendum but for leaving.

 

This is you backtracking again- there was no "massive support" for a referendum (as you claim) and you  deliberately & persistently try to  alter the debate in an attempt to  to move away from this unsupported  statement. 

 

That, of course, was borne out on the night.

That's of course , self evident and also not the point at issue. 

 

 

Mendacious, did you say ? 

Edited November 6, 2021 by NANOJAMBO

[NANOJAMBO]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Meanwhile,  wee Mrs Murrell stalks POTUS, a saltire in one hand,  camera phone in the other, desperate to add to her selfie collection.  Deary me....

Meanwhile,  the big boys discuss realistic options to reduce a cyclical climate issue, without impoverishing the population with "green " taxes.

 

[jack D and coke]

NS has ripped so many jimmys this COP I almost like her again…

Genuine smiles when she was talking to world leaders as opposed to the looks of disdain for that fat waste of skin. 
Tried to keep her oot and she was everywhere 🤣speaking to everyone🤣

Gaun yirsel wee yin🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Meanwhile,  wee Mrs Murrell stalks POTUS, a saltire in one hand,  camera phone in the other, desperate to add to her selfie collection. 

Meanwhile,  the big boys discuss realistic options to reduce a cyclical climate issue, without impoverishing the population with "green " taxes.

Ah the alternative reality returns.

 

The walls are closing in on Johnson's criminal enterprise and he'll be trying very hard to make it all about Brexit as he thinks that's a safe haven for him and the morons that voted for him. Problem is he sacked the brains of the operation and he lacks the intelligence and guille to deal with 'the big boys'. 

Once we finally leave the 'transition period' expect the acceleration of the implosion of Johnsons World.

 

Perhaps you can share the evidence of the last cycle of man made greenhouse gasses heating the planet, seeing as its a cyclical climate issue?

 

 

[Alex Kintner]

6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

So you DID do some googling finally !! 

 

Well done !! 

 

 

You missed this one ? 

 

https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-32/europe.aspx

 

Faced with the simple choice between staying or withdrawing, 35% now say they want Britain to withdraw from the EU. (so, that's 2-1 not in favour of leaving ?)

 

When presented with a wider range of options, voters’ most popular choice, backed by 38%, is to stay in the EU but to try and reduce its powers.

 

"Massive" support for  a referendum , did you say ? 

 

And let's not forget...

 

Immigration matters

Opposition to membership of the EU is particularly high among those who are concerned about immigration.

Around half of those who think immigration is bad for the economy want to leave the EU
compared with around one in ten of those who think it has been good for Britain’s economic fortunes.

 

 

Good luck. I’ve given up with him. “Mrs Murrell” living rent free in his head has clearly meant no space for things like comprehension, self-awareness or contrition.

 

Not wasting any more of my time pointing out his inaccuracies but will sit back and enjoy him digging and digging.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

So you DID do some googling finally !! 

 

Well done !! 

 

 

You missed this one ? 

 

https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-32/europe.aspx

 

Faced with the simple choice between staying or withdrawing, 35% now say they want Britain to withdraw from the EU. (so, that's 2-1 not in favour of leaving ?)

 

When presented with a wider range of options, voters’ most popular choice, backed by 38%, is to stay in the EU but to try and reduce its powers.

 

"Massive" support for  a referendum , did you say ? 

 

And let's not forget...

 

Immigration matters

Opposition to membership of the EU is particularly high among those who are concerned about immigration.

Around half of those who think immigration is bad for the economy want to leave the EU
compared with around one in ten of those who think it has been good for Britain’s economic fortunes.

 

 

I didn't Google anything; although Google does seem to be a pet obsession of yours.🤔.

I simply read the overwhelming evidence presented by Ulysses.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Mendacious, did you say ? 

Mendacious, yes. Correct.

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

So you DID do some googling finally !! 

 

Well done !! 

 

 

You missed this one ? 

 

https://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/latest-report/british-social-attitudes-32/europe.aspx

 

Faced with the simple choice between staying or withdrawing, 35% now say they want Britain to withdraw from the EU. (so, that's 2-1 not in favour of leaving ?)

 

When presented with a wider range of options, voters’ most popular choice, backed by 38%, is to stay in the EU but to try and reduce its powers.

 

"Massive" support for  a referendum , did you say ? 

 

And let's not forget...

 

Immigration matters

Opposition to membership of the EU is particularly high among those who are concerned about immigration.

Around half of those who think immigration is bad for the economy want to leave the EU
compared with around one in ten of those who think it has been good for Britain’s economic fortunes.

 

 

I would be intrigued to know how one side in a binary referendum can win, WITHOUT there being a groundswell of opinion in favour? It is a fascinating concept. 

 

You don't think the vast majority of people are swayed by fictitious soundbites like slogans on buses and White Papers full of lies?

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I would be intrigued to know how one side in a binary referendum can win, WITHOUT there being a groundswell of opinion in favour? It is a fascinating concept. 

 

You don't think the vast majority of people are swayed by fictitious soundbites like slogans on buses and White Papers full of lies?

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

NS has ripped so many jimmys this COP I almost like her again…

Genuine smiles when she was talking to world leaders as opposed to the looks of disdain for that fat waste of skin. 
Tried to keep her oot and she was everywhere 🤣speaking to everyone🤣

Gaun yirsel wee yin🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

 

 

Nicola has rattled a few here again.

[Unknown user]

28 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Nicola has rattled a few here again.

 

A groundswell of support, you might say

[The Real Maroonblood]

11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

A groundswell of support, you might say

👍

[Taffin]

10 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Sorry to hear this traumatic news 

 

I know, right. Had to make do with Japanese rice crackers and a selection of other crisps.

 

Walkers IT issue supposedly. I'm guessing they've just been paid to say that to cover up for Brexit...

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

You don't think the vast majority of people are swayed by fictitious soundbites like slogans on buses and White Papers full of lies?

They certainly were according to one of the main architects of Brexit, Dominic Cummings, who said:-

 

In February 2017, Dominic Cummings said the bus slogan was one of the main reasons why the Leave campaign won the 2016 EU referendum. In a wordy essay for the Spectator, Dominic Cummings wrote:

 

“Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way.” –  Dominic Cummings – February 2017.

Read more: https://www.conversion-uplift.co.uk/brexit/the-boris-johnson-brexit-bus-lie-of-350m/#ixzz7BQqn2KoR 

 

[WorldChampions1902]

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Nicola has rattled a few here again.

Agreed! 😊

 

 

[WorldChampions1902]

15 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

We should take back control. 

 

It's what we voted for after all.

We have. Seemingly. 🤥

 

And “Brexit’s Done” too seemingly. 🤥

 

So let’s focus on the rampant corruption inside the U.K. Junta.

 

Oh wait! 

[Captain Sausage]

I think curriculums for schools and universities need updated to really show how 21st century propaganda can affect things like Brexit and US presidential election. 
 

Brexit was won because one side lied through their teeth and painted this picture of ‘us v them’ - the dirty foreigners coming here, sponging off our NHS and taking our jobs (whilst also taking all our benefits). It’s to the absolute shame of the remain party that they didn’t do more to fight these untruths. 
 

Same with Trump. He won on a card of ‘drain the swamp’. The massive irony being that he removed a bunch of qualified people who had been installed through nepotism with a bunch of family members who were completely unqualified. Nepotism, just different people. 
 

The damning fact is that joe public is too stupid to see through the slogans, to read more than the headline and it causes these charlatans to continue with their nonsense. 
 

Brexit is our fault. We brought it on ourselves and now we reap what we sow. 

[NANOJAMBO]

4 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

Good luck. I’ve given up with him. “Mrs Murrell” living rent free in his head has clearly meant no space for things like comprehension, self-awareness or contrition.

 

Not wasting any more of my time pointing out his inaccuracies but will sit back and enjoy him digging and digging.

 

Yup, that's the final word from me.

A self deluded poster who abuses others and indulges in the most childish language.

👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

I know, right. Had to make do with Japanese rice crackers and a selection of other crisps.

 

Walkers IT issue supposedly. I'm guessing they've just been paid to say that to cover up for Brexit...

👍